So apparently JonTron is a racist

[Zontar]

[

This is implied from an unsourced quote from Bernard Lewis in a media appearance.

He's very far from the only one who's said it.

Your assumption is based on the idea that the only people on the planet who will continue to have birth rates above subsistence level will be Muslims living in what is now the developed world, because.. reasons, I guess.

Yes, it is based on reasons, specifically the fact that first, second and third generation Muslim immigrants to Europe have a consistent birth rate.

Also, for someone who hates "ivory towers" so much, you seem to have a bizarre love of citing shitty academics and wading in on social theories. Why don't you leave that to us "gated community" types and get back to living in the Muslim-dominated urban slum you would have to live in, at this point, to justify even a fraction of the rhetoric you've come out with.

You know it's funny, all I'd have to do is cross the pond and literally just that would be the case.

It's actually quite hilarious (in a pathetic way) that in places like Sweden the media refuses to report on the facts about recent immigrants because it would make the Swedish Democrats look good and likely gain them popularity. Or Germany, where politicians are literally stating that the way to deal with the crime of recent immigrants it so keep yourself at arms length.

I actually find it telling that regardless of medium or if it is in person, the only Europeans I've seen since the crisis started who actually believe the government line on everything being just fine are a literal handful of people who in that time have been outnumbered by a literal 100 to 1 ratio of those I've seen, and that's not counting places like the chans that would skew it even worst.

It should also be considered telling that most liberal YouTubers from mainland Europe have taken an overtly anti-migrant stance on the crisis, and that opposition to Islamic immigration is most countries has reached majority level even in Germany herself.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

On you education point to MHR, Clinton received a surge in popularity in the 50 most educated counties, and a drop in the 50 least educated counties.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/

And since Germany isn't toeing the line between developed and developing, I fail to see the relevance.

Between that and the massive bodycount, I'm starting to feel like you really need to cherry pick the Native American/colonial aspect to get anything similar to Muslim immigrants. It's not hard to see why Jon is getting so much shit for it. And there's a difference between manipulating inter tribe politics when you're an outside power backed by a world power and voting for a party that seems unlike the party you would vote for. A real big freaking difference.

Citation needed. A thousand citations needed. March to theocracy. Where? Canada killing freedom of speech. Where? And did all of those takeovers involve relatively poor immigrants coming to rich countries with well established systems of power? Because I doubt it. You don't doubt it? Cool. Cite. Your. Sources. I've been providing you with plenty of sources, kindly return the favor.

Yeah, see, I thought this was going to happen. The left holds the white working class in concept because...you say they do. Look, like it or not, it's well documented that the illegal aliens in California are doing more good than people would like to admit.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy

Also there's kind of the fact that most Democrats support illegal aliens getting citizen ship, so that the slave labor aspect would stop being a thing. Ergo, I find your claim that they have contempt for the white working class to be...insubstantial. So wait, it's harmful to the working class or the white working class? You can't go back and forth like that, which is it?

See above. I find your claims to be insubstantial.

Gonna have to repeat myself again and again, cite your sources please. Sources for all of the claims that you're making. Also, if they don't speak the local language, doesn't that kind of throw a wrench in the whole manipulation of local politics thing?

I feel like half of my post is me asking you to kindly cite your sources, and yet I have to do it again. Please do so.

Possibly, but it still seems to be holding on strong, and your claim was still hyperbolic. You may be right in this regard, but not necessarily.

We're gonna have to stop dropping bombs on middle eastern nations if we're seriously interested in that.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I don't know any Trump supporters that are that smart, so if Jontron likes Trump, this forces me to rethink things a bit.

It should be remembered that Trump won the higher educated white vote over Clinton, and both did pretty close on all levels of education, so there's no correlation between one's stance on the election and one's level of intellect.

Le what? That speaks more to Trump's high support from white people than anything to do with education. Clinton had a 4 point lead in college graduates and a fairly massive 21 point lead with folks who did some post graduate study.

I have a hard time swallowing western democracies signing off on the things that make Islamic states to horrible to live in, just because they've passed some laws you disagree with

So you're saying that the march towards theocracy which is already well under way in places...

You know, the weird thing is, I actually think you're more right than you know, you just mis-identify where the source is.

You mean apart from the Democrats and Labour openly holding them in contempt and advocating policies that harm them? Because as recently as the very stream that was complained about in the OP you had a democrat complaining that the slave labour illegal immigrant labour in California needs to be kept because despite the fact it's harmful to the working class it's somehow good for the economy as a whole.

Now I'm not a fan of class warfare, but between the betterment of the working class and the betterment of the better off, I think which side the liberal-in-name-only parties should be taking.

Wow. You should be livid with the Trump folks then.

Actually it's a simple acknowledgement of the fact that uneducated, unskilled labour that doesn't even speak the local language who have absolutely no demand for there presence in the workforce by the market, who are doomed to never find employment outside of a rare select few, will not be able to suddenly start being productive members of society. This isn't the strawman of "immigrants can't ever amount to anything", it's the objective statement of fact that THESE SPECIFIC immigrants will never be a net contribution to the countries they have settled in. You don't see me saying Chinese immigrants won't contribute to the countries they move to, you don't see me saying Indian immigrants won't contribute to the countries they move to, hell if you apply the right type of vetting even underdeveloped nations in Africa can have plenty of immigrants who are net contributors to their societies.

Those who entered Europe as part of this uncontrolled, unvetted Islamic immigration open door, however, will not, as a whole, ever reach the point of the resourced they've produced for society equalling those they've consumed. Because that's what happens when you let in a massive number of people who have no skills, no education, no ability to properly communicate with locals and have no means of properly being integrated to top it all off.

It's not immigrants who are inherently unable to contribute to society, it's just the group we've been discussing here from the very beginning. Of course, you knew that already.

. I hear echoes of the Chinese Exclusion Act.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Yes, it is based on reasons, specifically the fact that first, second and third generation Muslim immigrants to Europe have a consistent birth rate.

Umm.. No they don't.

Where are you getting that from?

The average number of children for a Pakistani immigrant woman in the UK is 3.37.

The average number of children for a second generation Pakistani immigrant woman in the UK is 2.65.

Moreover, the average number of children for a Pakistani immigrant woman in the 1970s was 5.02. (Incidentally, in Pakistan itself that number was around 7 in the 1970s, whereas now it's about the same as it is for immigrants in the UK).

This is all from Sylvie Dubuc, Immigration to the UK from High-Fertility Countries: Intergenerational Adaptation and Fertility Convergence.

You know it's funny, all I'd have to do is cross the pond and literally just that would be the case.

As someone who actually lives "across the pond" in a predominantly working class area where 32% of the population is Muslim, I can't help but wonder how these class politics are supposed to work. Like, when do I get my nice quiet house in a gated community like all the champagne socialists? I mean, if you could at least tell me where I can get the champagne that would be great, it might make reading these threads a little more bearable.

I actually find it telling that regardless of medium or if it is in person, the only Europeans I've seen since the crisis started who actually believe the government line on everything being just fine are a literal handful of people who in that time have been outnumbered by a literal 100 to 1 ratio of those I've seen, and that's not counting places like the chans that would skew it even worst.

So, how many Europeans, in total, do you interact with on an average day.

Because I think I can beat you..

The internet is not actually real, dude. Real life is real. You know, that world out there which I'm about to walk outside to right now and go buy some groceries and not get attacked by a genderfluid Muslim Communist rape gang dressed up in Mad Max bondage gear.

Sorry, I know sometimes it feels like it would be kind of exciting if it really was the end of civilisation, but it's actually not. Things are fine. Bad things happen sometimes, but they aren't attributable to a single group or demographic which is responsible for everything wrong with the world.

Now go do something actually fun instead of trawling /pol/.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

What absolutely baffles me is that people try to defend this shit.

It is without a doubt indefensible. Stop trying to justify stupid and racist statements. All the paragraphs in the world won't help.

 

[RaikuFA]

What absolutely baffles me is that people try to defend this shit.

It is without a doubt indefensible. Stop trying to justify stupid and racist statements. All the paragraphs in the world won't help.

2nd. Though it'll probably fall on deaf ears.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Yeah, it's a shame. There goes my sub to his channel. I only separate content and creator to a point, and if I'd keep watching his content I'd be supporting him directly. Do I want to support someone who shows support of a white nationalistic politician's (Steve King, in case you're wondering) racist views? Nope, not at all.

Yes Destiny got his ass wooped.

Man, someone doesn't know a lot about debating. The moment Destiny got accused of 'talking prettily' Jon showed he lost all reason. The moment he mentioned that racial discrimination in the US was eradicated he lost all ground to stand on.

 

[The Lunatic]

8% OH NO THEY COMPLETELY TAKE OVER WHITE PEOPLE

So yeah, how do we get people like Zontar away from actual dangerous delusions?

From the exact same source you just used.

Yeah, pretty worrying, as it turns out.

 

[WindKnight]

So yeah, how do we get people like Zontar away from actual dangerous delusions?

You don't.

Unfortunately you can have facts and reason to back up everything you say, and disprove everything they say and people of a certain persuasion still won't budge.

In the end, the only reason you 'debate' them is so an impressionable third party doesn't buy what they are saying uncritically.

 

[Cowabungaa]

snip

And yet many right-wingers are a-okay with the Christian version of this. That's the problem, that hypocrisy.

 

[The Lunatic]

snip

And yet many right-wingers are a-okay with the Christian version of this. That's the problem, that hypocrisy.

There aren't very many Christian extremists immigrating to Europe.

Many left-wingers seem very keen on bringing up Christian extremists whilst ignoring what a large portion of Muslims hold similar beliefs.

 

[Hawki]

Snip

Those are indeed disturbing statistics, but looking at the source of the surveys (see http://i.imgur.com/TZR5I61.png), it appears that the majority of the countries surveyed are from Muslim-majority countries (Russia and Thailand are exceptions I can nominate off the top of my head), and from countries that wouldn't usually be counted among the MEDC bloc (and again, Russia and Thailand would fall under said bloc). It would be more interesting to see statistics from Muslims in countries where they're the minority, and how the statistics stack up based on what generation they're in.

Make no mistake, I think many aspects of Islam are abhorhent, and it's laughable to hear people claim it's a "religion of peace." Still, like practically every religion, the level of commitment does vary by individual. So on one hand, I'm quite happy for people to call Islam out on its BS, like every other religion (even if Islam lends itself to militancy far more readily than, say, Jainism). On the other, I'm wary of lumping every follower into the melting pot. Not every Christian is a young earth, anti-gay, anti-secularist loon after all, to name one example. You can practice a religion and still be a perfectly rational person.

 

[Ninjamedic]

snip

And yet many right-wingers are a-okay with the Christian version of this. That's the problem, that hypocrisy.

Hang on here, are you suggesting that the current Right wings opposition to Islam isn't based on the defense of secular values but rather based on sectarian fight to reinstall christian influences by having a collective boogeyman and attacking all but the far-right as not wanting to combat fundamentalism despite none of the Right Wing exemplars actually doing anything to combat Islamic extremism beyond superficial showings?

 

[Trunkage]

What absolutely baffles me is that people try to defend this shit.

It is without a doubt indefensible. Stop trying to justify stupid and racist statements. All the paragraphs in the world won't help.

I think I need to make an introduction. Sol... this is the Internet. Internet this is Sol. Interest interests are aggravating people, making up facts, yelling at others because you know they aren't listening and not listening. Have a nice time.

In all seriousness, saying "stop justifying racism" will just make some justify more.

 

[Imre Csete]

Dude OD'd on redpills, this stuff happens.

 

[somonels]

This accusation has been going around for a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6uTKPwVnNI

 

[shrekfan246]

I mean, really, the interview with Breitbart should've been a pretty big red flag to most people.

 

[awesomeClaw]

Snip

Those are indeed disturbing statistics, but looking at the source of the surveys (see http://i.imgur.com/TZR5I61.png), it appears that the majority of the countries surveyed are from Muslim-majority countries (Russia and Thailand are exceptions I can nominate off the top of my head), and from countries that wouldn't usually be counted among the MEDC bloc (and again, Russia and Thailand would fall under said bloc). It would be more interesting to see statistics from Muslims in countries where they're the minority, and how the statistics stack up based on what generation they're in.

Make no mistake, I think many aspects of Islam are abhorhent, and it's laughable to hear people claim it's a "religion of peace." Still, like practically every religion, the level of commitment does vary by individual. So on one hand, I'm quite happy for people to call Islam out on its BS, like every other religion (even if Islam lends itself to militancy far more readily than, say, Jainism). On the other, I'm wary of lumping every follower into the melting pot. Not every Christian is a young earth, anti-gay, anti-secularist loon after all, to name one example. You can practice a religion and still be a perfectly rational person.

Good thing there exists a similar study but for immigrants, then:

https://www.wzb.eu/sites/default/files/u6/koopmans_englisch_ed.pdf

According to this survey, which was taken by muslim immigrants (and christian natives) in Sweden, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands and Austria:

- circa 75% of muslim immigrants believe there is only one true and binding interpertation of Islam

- 65% believe religious rules are more important than secular rules, compared to 10% of christian natives

- about 55% don't want a jewish or homosexual friend. Among natives, that same number is 10%

Now, taken together with the other poll, this suggests radical muslims do not abandon their insidious views, like, at all.

Honestly, you can discuss why this is all day long, but, as we say in Swedish, "when it all comes around", this is more than ample evidence that we really shouldn't let too many muslims into Europe. (In America is somewhat better off, since the Atlantic is hard to cross, and it is less advantageous regarding welfare and the like. It'd be interesting to see what American muslims have to say.)

 

[McElroy]

He doesn't think things through. This is what happens when you don't. Complain about the complainers too much and that's where you'll end up. It's really easy too. Even I, an exquisitely smart and all-around superior person, sometimes fall for it, but I know when to take a step back and re-evaluate some.

 

[The Lunatic]

Snip

Those are indeed disturbing statistics, but looking at the source of the surveys (see http://i.imgur.com/TZR5I61.png), it appears that the majority of the countries surveyed are from Muslim-majority countries (Russia and Thailand are exceptions I can nominate off the top of my head), and from countries that wouldn't usually be counted among the MEDC bloc (and again, Russia and Thailand would fall under said bloc). It would be more interesting to see statistics from Muslims in countries where they're the minority, and how the statistics stack up based on what generation they're in.

Make no mistake, I think many aspects of Islam are abhorhent, and it's laughable to hear people claim it's a "religion of peace." Still, like practically every religion, the level of commitment does vary by individual. So on one hand, I'm quite happy for people to call Islam out on its BS, like every other religion (even if Islam lends itself to militancy far more readily than, say, Jainism). On the other, I'm wary of lumping every follower into the melting pot. Not every Christian is a young earth, anti-gay, anti-secularist loon after all, to name one example. You can practice a religion and still be a perfectly rational person.

Oh, well, there's been a few.
I'll list headlines, but, as I'm sure you can imagine there's a bit more nuance than just a headline.

40% of Muslims want Sharia law in the UK.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

62% Of British Muslims do not believe in protecting free speech, if it offends religion.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-british-muslims-put-islam-first/

0% of 500 Muslims surveyed find homosexual acts to be morally acceptable.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality


Seems the younger generation is even more radical than the previous ones. 31% of younger British Muslims believe than the 7/7 bombings were justified, compared to 14% of ones over 45.

So, yeah, the idea that we're importing people into our country that are extremely anti-west, don't have respect for homosexuals or women and they're soon to make up 8% of Europe is pretty worrying.

Now, obviously, I believe there is an individual basis to it. I'm not on the whole "THEY'RE ALL TERRIBLE!!!!" wagon or anything. But, it really does worry me.

My own opinion is that we need to get serious about vetting. We need to ensure the people coming to our nations agree with our way of life and are compatible with it.