Spawn Camping Marathon Gets Black Ops Players Banned

Podunk

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While I hate spawn camping just as much as anyone else, it's the developer's responsibility to make sure that it doesn't happen (or at least is kept to a minimum). The terrible spawn system is why I gave up MW2 and decided to give Black Ops a miss. I hate this kind of player, but if the developer is going to turn a blind eye to this kind of persistent problem then I can't help but feel most of my ire is directed towards them. Banning people who (while reprehensible people I would never want to play with) didn't actually do anything outside the game's intended function just seems like a lazy concession to a serious problem.
 

Podunk

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T8B95 said:
Why not just put spawn points that are inaccessible to the other team? Maybe give it a killtimer to stop players in TDM just hiding in there?

I still do say that Halo Reach is the most balanced online FPS in the market today.
Online Console FPS? Because on the PC market I'd have to say Team Fortress 2 has it beat.
 

IBlackKiteI

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danpascooch said:
Alright, let's see if I can do this without starting a flamewar, I think I can manage it. *cracks knuckles*

Shooters are generally about skill and team tactics, that is what elevates one team over another in an online match. Here are those two elements, and how the core mechanics of CoD violate and destroy each of them.

Skill:

Basic Definition:

The ability to properly dispatch an opponent due to effective aiming and use of environment (cover and the like) in an even fight.

Call of Duty Definition:

The ability to wait in one spot until an enemy walks by, and then kill him solely because you sat in one spot and happened to see him first.

Violating Mechanics:

1.) Low Health (or high damage)

The extremely low health in CoD means that when two opponents are within range of eachother, and overwhelming amount of time the victor is the one who sees his opponent first, not the one with the most skill.

2.) Prone

Prone allows a player to lie down and almost always be the first person to see an opponent when the opponent enters the room, and don't even get me started on "drop shooting"

3.) Static Spawn

Besides the obvious problems shown in the video (did you see the part where he literally stood behind them and stabbed each one as they appeared?) Static spawning means that you can reliably predict which hallway/room/alley the enemy players will funnel through, leading to camping spots that take advantage of the mechanics listed above to remove skill from the game

4.) Kill Streaks

Players are awarded for getting a number of kills without dying, which discourages them from taking any sort of calculated risk or put their life in danger for the good of the team, this heavily encourages camping

Conclusion:

I have no real issue with any of these mechanics alone, the problem is that they all work together in synchronization to create a game where the victor is not determined by skill but by camping and waiting for extended periods of time

Tactics

Definition: Increasing effectiveness through the use of proper team communication, strategies, and grouping into squads

Violating Mechanics:

1.) The four mechanics above and the camping atmosphere they create

Grouping is suicide in CoD because the high damage and advantage of finding a camping spot means that a single camper with a rifle can kill three or more people almost as quickly as one, as long as he has a decent camping spot. (as in, any window overlooking a linear path)

2.) Static Spawns & Frequent Deaths

The fact that in CoD players are constantly either A) In a camping spot (in which case another teammate isn't likely to heavily increase effectiveness as detailed above) or B) constantly dying and teleporting back to one side of the map. Makes it nearly impossible to work as a group.

Conclusion:

Given the diminishing returns on camping, and the fact that players are constantly separated by being whisked away on respawn with startling frequency makes it nearly impossible to execute any meaningful teamwork.

Overall Argument

A shooter is not about finding spots to camp on a map, but that's what Call of Duty is all about, leading me to the conclusion that the core mechanics listed above have broken the fundamental aspects of what makes a shooter enjoyable.
'Skill' in games is irrelevant and dumb.
You do realise this is a video game your talking about right?

Anyways this is still pretty damn funny.
 

RowdyRodimus

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Sniper Team 4 said:
I got spawn camped once. I refused to quick, even though I could literally only take five steps before I was cut down. Everyone else save one person on my team quit the match, and it got to the point where whenever I managed to kill someone, it was pure joy. Guess what?

IT WASN'T IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!

Stop saying this is only Call of Duty's problem. Tons of online shooters have this issue. For the record, the game I was talking about is Resistance 2.

On topic: I think this is hilarious. Stupid people doing stupid things then posting it for the enforcers to see. Ha ha ha ha ha!
I had something similar happen in Red Dead Redemption. I just got into a game world, not even enough time to move from the spawn point and BLAM! Someone got me with a headshot. They really need to give you a period of time where you are invincible but can't interact with players so you can at least get going first.
 

Palademon

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How can you punish someone for playing the game in a legitimate way? Playing that way is physically allowed.
 

lizards

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Baresark said:
lizards said:
JourneyThroughHell said:
MisterGobbles said:
snip
They could update the map to fix it. Change the map so the spawn points are in a secure location. Perhaps an area players can't readily access without having spawned there. But, that would require changing the map in some way, they don't like to release maps without being paid money for it though. Like I said in a previous post, lots of games have preset spawn points, such as TF2, only they make those points secure, and you can't be spawn camped.
....what? im being serious i have no idea what you are implying because ANYTIME you EVER have FIXED SPAWNS you are going to have SPAWN CAMPING, it doesnt matter what the design is, if its in the open theyll hang back and shoot you, if its enclosed they will wait at the entrances

and are you fucking kidding me, tf2? have you ever played it? half the battle every single game is just breaking out of the spawn, rainbow six vegas was basically a tug of war between can you even name a game with fixed spawns that doesnt have spawn camping?

the only credible answer that i know of that you could give his bad company 2 and that still has a little of it but the maps are so massive you could be spawned anywhere almost and most of the time you spawn with a squadmate which means you are usally at least fairly safe for a few seconds
 

ReiverCorrupter

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BOOSTING is a ban-able offense because people are exploiting the matchmaking system. That's what those guys should (and probably were) banned for.

CAMPING is the... exploitation of... GAMEPLAY???

HOW CAN YOU "EXPLOIT" GAMEPLAY? THEY AREN'T EVEN USING GLITCHES!!!

What's next? Banning the use of the friggin' nube tube? TREYARCH PUT THE NOOB TUBE INTO THE GAME, JUST LIKE THEY PUT THE FIXED SPAWN POINT INTO THE GAME. One cannot "exploit" basic gameplay mechanics. They can exploit glitches, but that is different because glitches were never in ANY sense intended to be part of gameplay.

This is Treyarch's fault. This is shoddy game design. You can't blame players for using such a dominant strategy, it's your job to fix the gameplay so there is no such strategy.

For all of you people who say camping takes no skill and is cheating: sure dude, and running out into the open to get filled with lead is such a great strategy, especially in a "realistic" shooter. (In real warfare "camping" is called "not running out into fire like an idiot and getting killed instantly"). These are the same people who complain about "rushing" in RTS games when a decent player sends a small group of units to harass them in the early-game.

Granted I don't care for the random corner campers because, let's face it, camping around a random corner hoping someone comes by is just cheap and stupid. But even so, they still aren't cheaters. People who hold down all the entrances to a room and set up ambushes are using a lot more strategy than people who randomly run out into the open hoping to find and shoot a couple people before they get shot. Maybe you think all skill in an FPS boils down to who can aim the fastest, but if that's the case, then why don't you go play some fighting games instead? They require quicker reflexes and a lot more dexterity.
 

MaxRaine

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Exploiters like this should be permanently banned imo...
Sure, find flaws, test them out a bit (not like this), then report it and don't do it again.
Find a flaw or bug and use it to boost your stats/rating/whatever and you deserve a ban.
 

ninetails593

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PEOPLE. THESE WERE BOOSTERS. THEY WERE NOT EXPLOITING THE SPAWNING SYSTEM, THEY WERE LENDING EACH OTHER KILLS.
 

LiftYourSkinnyFists

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-Samurai- said:
Hey, way to punish players for exposing the flaws in your game, Treyarch.

Maybe the people getting beat were in league with the spawn campers, or maybe they're like me and refuse to quit no matter how badly they're getting beat.
It does in fact say that they're in cahoots.
 

Xanadu84

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I think a lot of people are COMPLETELY missing the point. If this was a real game, and the players were just trying to win, then Treyarch would be WAY out of line here. In a game, you try to win according to the rules. It ceases to be a competitive game (What makes the game fun) if you start punishing people for implementing effective strategy's. That is a fault in the design, and needs to be fixed. But you can't fault a player for doing something that he is asked, implicitly, to do. But that is NOT what is happening here, at least, according to the Community Manager. According to the Manager, there was a team full of confederates who were LETTING themselves be killed. In order to artificially boost the other players score. It is not a matter of using an unfair but allowed strategy, it is about artificially padding your score through unfair meta-gaming. That is not appropriate. Is the CM right, and that is actually what was happening here? I'm honestly not sure. I need more information.
 

jayzz911

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Christ people... you don't really get it... They were banned for boosting, the people on the other team were friends of theirs and hardly ever fired their guns. Yea... I know it's hard to hear over the mainstream hate on this forum but sometimes it isn't the creators fault no matter how bad you want it to be... Boosting is a bannable offense they got what they deserved
PS: there are videos on youtube from the point of view of the people that died alot they ran into the middle and died and ran and died repeat this for a while and you have the 500 kills video. they didn't fire and when they did (cause i saw them firing once) he didn't aim at anyone and sure as hell didn't aim down the sight of his gun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU6vrK_OWmY there's the video
 

Murray Whitwell

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Trust a Call of Duty developer to be to lazy to fix a problem caused by their own poor design, and instead punishing players for playing the game with the systems the dev's put in themselves.
I feel sorry for these guys.
 

Baresark

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lizards said:
Baresark said:
snip
They could update the map to fix it. Change the map so the spawn points are in a secure location. Perhaps an area players can't readily access without having spawned there. But, that would require changing the map in some way, they don't like to release maps without being paid money for it though. Like I said in a previous post, lots of games have preset spawn points, such as TF2, only they make those points secure, and you can't be spawn camped.
....what? im being serious i have no idea what you are implying because ANYTIME you EVER have FIXED SPAWNS you are going to have SPAWN CAMPING, it doesnt matter what the design is, if its in the open theyll hang back and shoot you, if its enclosed they will wait at the entrances

and are you fucking kidding me, tf2? have you ever played it? half the battle every single game is just breaking out of the spawn, rainbow six vegas was basically a tug of war between can you even name a game with fixed spawns that doesnt have spawn camping?

the only credible answer that i know of that you could give his bad company 2 and that still has a little of it but the maps are so massive you could be spawned anywhere almost and most of the time you spawn with a squadmate which means you are usally at least fairly safe for a few seconds
That isn't the same thing. These guys were waiting, at the spot where people spawn and knifing them as they spawned. Your talking about base camping, which is quite different. Base camping is annoying, but you can get out of the base with a good coordinated effort. I actually enjoy the challenge of overcoming base campers. In these cases though, it's not an instant kill as soon as you spawn. And yes, I have played TF2. I enjoy it immensely. In BFBC2, people occasionally base rape, and that is annoying, but I have never seen anyone do that without a swift warning, and if you keep doing it, a kick from the server. And then you don't get any points when you get kicked from the server. So, that is a good penalty in my book.

Calm down, take a deep breath, haha. It's all good.
 

Asehujiko

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Tankichi said:
HAHAHAHAHAHA! sweet. I love when spawn campers suck or this happens.
You love it when somebody makes a video that basically says: "this shit is broken and here is a perfect demonstration of what happens because of that" and then an angry community mismanager decides to shoot the messenger instead of forwarding it to the studio he's attached to?
 

Zenn3k

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Cpt Corallis said:
Question: Why not just implement a system where a newly spawning player in a game with fixed spawn points be invincible until three seconds have passed since they moved from the spawn point?
Would mean that people would be able to escape from spawn campers or get revenge.
MW2 basically had this, it was called "Pain Killer", and it was MASSIVELY complained about.

Pain Killer was a death streak, that gave you 3x health after you died 3 times in a row without getting a kill and lasted something like 15-20 seconds.

Everyone hated it.
 

Mcface

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So you ban people for using your game against you?
thats bullshit. fix the game.
 

lizards

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IBlackKiteI said:
'Skill' in games is irrelevant and dumb.
You do realise this is a video game your talking about right?

Anyways this is still pretty damn funny.
yes and games are played for fun, whats not fun is walking through a building then getting killed because somebody decides to just sit there waiting for people to walk by
 

Ranylyn

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Wow, people are defending the campers? -20 for my faith in the common sense of the gaming community!

Guys, reality check: in MMOs, exploiting holes in the system results in permanent bans. Imagine an MMORPG with a glitched quest for example. Collect X many of item Y. Except imagine if the quest doesn't go away OR take your items, and players exploit this glitch to reach the max level. The fault is shared; both with the company who messed up and the players who exploited it.

This has happened before in many other games, many of which result in either rollbacks (which affects EVERYONE, and no one wins) or permanent bans. Let me name you one example here. To quote "Hime," a GM from Nexon of America, the company that hosts MMOs like Maplestory, Dungeon Fighter Online, Combat Arms, and Vindictus, "Exploiting a loophole in the system is the equivalent of using 3rd party programs." What does this mean? "Accidental programming error is an accident and if you exploit it before we fix it, your ass is grass."

Honestly... I think the people defending campers are the ones who got banned! There's zero fun in abusing system loopholes like this, unless your definition of fun is griefing.
 

Thaius

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The banhammer is a swift weapon of justice, and is to be respected. Awesome.