Target Australia will no longer stock GTA5

Sep 14, 2009
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Vault101 said:
no one is an idiot for looking at something and going "you know what? I can't abide this shit"

I don't have any interest in playing GTA V because its apparent that there's little appeal, I don't like how the game treats women (which I'm not just basing on player action)

its immature to get all pissy because people take moral issue with the things you like
you could very well use this same reasoning against this type of petition/protest. for example:

"you know what? I can't abide this shit.

I don't have any interest in playing GTA V because its apparent that there's little appeal, but I don't want to prevent someone from having access to something I don't like.

its immature to get all pissy because people take moral issue with the things you like preventing someone from having access to something."


see what I mean? There is no issue at all with people not liking something, hell I find GTA extremely boring, none of that shit has ever interested me, but I don't see why I should prevent someone else from being able to play it. Censorship is pretty much bad in all cases, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that actually warrants being outright censored, and sure, not every store has every item stocked in the history of stocking, but they aren't for "i'm offended! I demand to be accustomed to!" reasons, they are for the fact they aren't selling anymore or they can't get ahold of stock for it.

 

peruvianskys

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kazann said:
Please dont use oppressed like as if they're living in hell and are subjected to an authoritarian treatment. It makes your cause seem pathetic, this isn't the 1970's. Thank god its a small minority that think like you, they just happen to be vocal. I know women that would laugh at what your saying.
Did you know that women in the sex trade have levels of PTSD comparable with soldiers returning from active duty? That over 75% report at least one rape a year?

That's oppression.

Ilovechocolatemilk said:
So you're against free speech. The idea that one person's speech matters more than another's is antithetical to the idea of free speech. Either everyone has it, or it's not free. Some pigs are not more equal than others.
I support the free speech of women, racialized folks, and other oppressed groups. I don't give a shit about the free speech of spoiled white dudes.

It's shocking to me how someone who says they believe in social justice can be in favor of censorship. Free speech is our main weapon against oppression. How can you not see this? Have you never studied history?
Our main weapon against oppression is resistance. And I have studied history, and I can tell you that feminist activists working to disrupt the production and distribution of woman-hating material is a very effective strategy against male violence.


So let me ask you this, how are you so sure the game encourages violence against women if you haven't even played it? People who have are telling you that's a false charge. What do you have to say about that?
I've seen videos of the behaviors described - in addition, the feature was possible in all GTA games from Vice City up, if I remember correctly.

gmaverick019 said:
see what I mean? There is no issue at all with people not liking something, hell I find GTA extremely boring, none of that shit has ever interested me, but I don't see why I should prevent someone else from being able to play it. Censorship is pretty much bad in all cases, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that actually warrants being outright censored, and sure, not every store has every item stocked in the history of stocking, but they aren't for "i'm offended! I demand to be accustomed to!" reasons, they are for the fact they aren't selling anymore or they can't get ahold of stock for it.
This has nothing to do with women and pro-feminists "not liking something." I don't like Nickelback and I don't like Parmesan cheese. I don't want either of those things removed from stores.

What this has to do with is women who do not want their abuse to be made into a sport for men. It has to do with women's frustrations regarding the way they're portrayed in video games as sex objects, sluts, and targets of scorn and violence. It has to do with, you know, hundreds of years of rape and abuse that women have suffered from men. It's not about taste. It's not about individual preferences. It's about a woman's desire and a woman's right to live in a world where hurting her for being a woman is not a pastime that men like to simulate.

Women can choose to not buy GTA 5 but they *cannot* chose to not live in a world where millions of men find simulations of their rape and murder to be a fun diversion in a video game. This is about the latter, not the former; it's about women who live in a world where *thousands* of men rape, abuse, and murder prostituted women, and how those women want to live in a world where at the very least that violence is not replicated onscreen for the enjoyment of men.
 

Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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gmaverick019 said:
see what I mean? There is no issue at all with people not liking something, hell I find GTA extremely boring, none of that shit has ever interested me, but I don't see why I should prevent someone else from being able to play it. Censorship is pretty much bad in all cases, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that actually warrants being outright censored, and sure, not every store has every item stocked in the history of stocking, but they aren't for "i'm offended! I demand to be accustomed to!" reasons, they are for the fact they aren't selling anymore or they can't get ahold of stock for it.
Again with the "censorship". Jesus, leave the poor word alone. It's already suffered enough.

GTA5 is not being censored. It is entirely legal to own, buy, sell and play GTA5 in Australia. This is a couple of retail outlets choosing not to stock a particular product because they wish to avoid offending their customers.

A few months ago a nearby bakery stopped stocking a kind of pie I really liked. Tell me, was that pie censored?
 

Trippy Turtle

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Oh man, I even signed the petition for it as a joke. I feel vaguely bad that it got pulled now. Not that anybody buys games from target to be honest.

"Random anomoly or setting a dangerous presedent?"
Target in Australia is mostly a clothing store that caters to women. It was in its best interest to cave into the demands of at least 80% of its customer base.
I'm confident something like EB Games wouldn't take it off shelves seeing that the people complaining about it make up a whopping 0% of their customers. And hell, its perfectly reasonable in a way. If EB Games started selling womens clothing I'd probably petition to have that stopped.

Vault101 said:
no one is an idiot for looking at something and going "you know what? I can't abide this shit"

I don't have any interest in playing GTA V because its apparent that there's little appeal, I don't like how the game treats women (which I'm not just basing on player action)

its immature to get all pissy because people take moral issue with the things you like
Hitler couldn't abide by jews. Is it immature for the world to condemn him for removing them?
If you take offense to something like this, enough to have it removed from target at least, you are in fact an idiot. They don't have to like it, but they should allow others to like it. If it was being forced on them or graphic videos of the violence in the game were being displayed throughout target, then I could understand.

This situation is not like that. This is like banning lettuce from a restaurant because somebody doesn't like it. Instead of ordering something else these people decided to ruin stuff for everyone. So sorry if I'm a little pissy because idiots are free to have such an impact on my life because they take moral issue with something that doesn't even effect them.
 

Ilovechocolatemilk

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Zhukov said:
gmaverick019 said:
see what I mean? There is no issue at all with people not liking something, hell I find GTA extremely boring, none of that shit has ever interested me, but I don't see why I should prevent someone else from being able to play it. Censorship is pretty much bad in all cases, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that actually warrants being outright censored, and sure, not every store has every item stocked in the history of stocking, but they aren't for "i'm offended! I demand to be accustomed to!" reasons, they are for the fact they aren't selling anymore or they can't get ahold of stock for it.
Again with the "censorship". Jesus, leave the poor word alone. It's already suffered enough.

GTA5 is not being censored. It is entirely legal to own, buy, sell and play GTA5 in Australia. This is a couple of retail outlets choosing not to stock a particular product because they wish to avoid offending their customers.

A few months ago a nearby bakery stopped stocking a kind of pie I really liked. Tell me, was that pie censored?
No, it's called private censorship and it's recognized by the ALCU:

"Private pressure groups, not the government, promulgated and enforced the infamous Hollywood blacklists during the McCarthy period. But these private censorship campaigns are best countered by groups and individuals speaking out and organizing in defense of the threatened expression."

https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/what-censorship

Like I said before, these sjws are the new McCarthyists. They want to blacklist and pressure private organizations into doing their will.
 

Loonyyy

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Shocksplicer said:
I'm just chiming in to say that I'm also Austrslian, and that nobody buys games from Target anyway.
Except for the one or two times that they screw up their pricing so badly it goes in the opposite direction and they criminally underprice it, or at launch, sometimes their price might be reasonable. But yeah, Target blows for games. JB Hi-Fi is better as far as superstore sorta bits, and EB games is most people's go to.
 

kazann

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Jan 18, 2013
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peruvianskys said:
This has nothing to do with women and pro-feminists "not liking something." I don't like Nickelback and I don't like Parmesan cheese. I don't want either of those things removed from stores.

What this has to do with is women who do not want their abuse to be made into a sport for men. It has to do with women's frustrations regarding the way they're portrayed in video games as sex objects, sluts, and targets of scorn and violence. It has to do with, you know, hundreds of years of rape and abuse that women have suffered from men. It's not about taste. It's not about individual preferences. It's about a woman's desire and a woman's right to live in a world where hurting her for being a woman is not a pastime that men like to simulate.

Women can choose to not buy GTA 5 but they *cannot* chose to not live in a world where millions of men find simulations of their rape and murder to be a fun diversion in a video game. This is about the latter, not the former; it's about women who live in a world where *thousands* of men rape, abuse, and murder prostituted women, and how those women want to live in a world where at the very least that violence is not replicated onscreen for the enjoyment of men.
Except you nor feminism can speak on behalf of all women, a large majority of women I know would laugh while playing GTA 5 and seeing that, knowing that they can then hop out of the car and gun down 100 men as well.

Statistically speaking aren't most gun related deaths men? while yes, those crimes are committed by other men are we gonna play the childish 'its only bad when boys do it not girls'. Bad things happen daily and people die.

Men can choose to not buy GTA 5 but they *cannot* chose to not live in a world where millions of men and women find simulations of their deaths and murder to be a fun diversion in a video game. This is about the latter, not the former; it's about men who live in a world where *thousands* of men rape, abuse, and murder other men, and how those men want to live in a world where at the very least that violence is not replicated onscreen for the enjoyment of men and women.

Is it just the prostitution portion you have an issue with? or women getting killing in GTA 5 in general
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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RhombusHatesYou said:
Zhukov said:
Tell me, was that pie censored?
A question for the ages.

I think I'll put it on a t-shirt.

Get in on it. We can start an national End Pie Censorship campaign.
its actually about ethics in pies [sub/]too cheap?[/sub]

kazann said:
Except you nor feminism can speak on behalf of all women, a large majority of women I know would laugh while playing GTA 5 and seeing that, knowing that they can then hop out of the car and gun down 100 men as well.
uh huuuhhhh.....

[quote/]Men can choose to not buy GTA 5 but they *cannot* chose to not live in a world where millions of men and women find simulations of their deaths and murder to be a fun diversion in a video game. [/quote]
funny how this only ever becomes an "issue" when its used as some kind of false counter point to whatever "feminist thing of the month" is doing the rounds
 

Creator002

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I got $36 off GTA V for Xbox One by price matching Target at EB. I don't know where my fellow Aussies are coming from. I'm in the northern suburbs of Melbourne.
 

kazann

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Vault101 said:
uh huuuhhhh.....
I feel sorry for you, you must surround yourself with a lot of boring girls

Vault101 said:
[quote/]Men can choose to not buy GTA 5 but they *cannot* chose to not live in a world where millions of men and women find simulations of their deaths and murder to be a fun diversion in a video game.
funny how this only ever becomes an "issue" when its used as some kind of false counter point to whatever "feminist thing of the month" is doing the rounds[/quote]

Thats the point, its not an issue - men dont care, we get gunned down and killed in real life everyday but we dont get sensitive about it in video games.
 

peruvianskys

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kazann said:
Statistically speaking aren't most gun related deaths men? while yes, those crimes are committed by other men are we gonna play the childish 'its only bad when boys do it not girls'. Bad things happen daily and people die.
And the people behind those deaths are largely men, being responsible for about 80% of violent crimes. Men kill each other a lot and also sometimes women.

Men can choose to not buy GTA 5 but they *cannot* chose to not live in a world where millions of men and women find simulations of their deaths and murder to be a fun diversion in a video game. This is about the latter, not the former; it's about men who live in a world where *thousands* of men rape, abuse, and murder other men, and how those men want to live in a world where at the very least that violence is not replicated onscreen for the enjoyment of men and women.
The *huge* difference is, of course, that it is men doing that killing. If men are so bummed out about male violence, they could stop, you know, killing each other. But women don't have that option.

Is it just the prostitution portion you have an issue with? or women getting killing in GTA 5 in general
I don't care if women are killed as bystanders - there's nothing *inherently* sinful about the idea of killing a woman. What I care about is a very real, very deadly thing - the sex trade - being turned into a fun game.

Like, I don't care that you can shoot black folks who are wandering around as NPCs - but I would care quite a bit if there was a sideplot that had you go out and attempt to specifically murder black folks. See the difference?
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Zachary Amaranth said:
RhombusHatesYou said:
Much the same as you would hire a female prostitute, one would imagine. Exchange money (or valuable barter goods) for sexual services.
Well played, Rhombus.
I'm on fire today. Really on fire. Fuck Australian summers.
 

Loonyyy

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Thorn14 said:
Grisly detailed torture of a man? Eh.
Funny how when that was brought up by people, it was shouted down.

Vast majority of cops and other enemies you kill are men? Eh.
Funny how when that was brought up, it was also shouted down.

Actually, that's been one of the longest running critiques against the series.

But acknowledging these things would probably make it a lot harder to reframe things in a convenient fashion.

totheendofsin said:
They mentioned the games 'depictions of violence against women' now it's been a while since I've played it but I don't recall any violence against women in the game, unless they are talking about how you are capable of killing female NPCs IN THE SAME WAY YOU CAN KILL MALE NPCs!
You can kill men after hiring them for sex? Must have missed that part. Can you tell me how to hire male prostitutes?
Don't you know, they're completely misrepresenting the game. THE HUMANITY.

I guess the man-whores are coming in some far off DLC which also includes a compelling protagonist. The DLC will also feature social commentary which is better than the doodles in the margins of a high schooler's workbook, a male strip club, and Jetpacks.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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kazann said:
I feel sorry for you, you must surround yourself with a lot of boring girls
ohhhh? are you implying having an issue with the way a game portrays women makes one boring?

[quote/]
Thats the point, its not an issue - men dont care, we get gunned down and killed in real life everyday but we dont get sensitive about it in video games.[/quote]
[sub/]next thing you'll be implying all those silly woman have a bad case of hysteria[/sub]

no your right, they might not, because given the society we live in violence and how its depicted in media (and really ALL deptions of stuff in our media) is different for guys
 

WhiteNachos

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Zhukov said:
OMG, IT'S CENSORSH...

No, hang on, it's a business responding to customer feedback and choosing not to sell a specific product that is still freely available to anyone who wishes to buy it.

"We are your customers, listen to our feedback! Hear our voices! Obey our comm... whoa, whoa, don't listen to those customers, they're feminazi SJW marxists!"

Heh. I love you all. I really do.
Zhukov said:
OMG, IT'S CENSORSH...

No, hang on, it's a business responding to customer feedback and choosing not to sell a specific product that is still freely available to anyone who wishes to buy it.

"We are your customers, listen to our feedback! Hear our voices! Obey our comm... whoa, whoa, don't listen to those customers, they're feminazi SJW marxists!"

Heh. I love you all. I really do.
Yeah how dare we be upset that they pulled a game based off lies.
 

Ilovechocolatemilk

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peruvianskys said:
Like, I don't care that you can shoot black folks who are wandering around as NPCs - but I would care quite a bit if there was a sideplot that had you go out and attempt to specifically murder black folks. See the difference?
But there is no sideplot to murder prostitutes! Do you get it?
 

Loonyyy

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kazann said:
Vault101 said:
uh huuuhhhh.....
I feel sorry for you, you must surround yourself with a lot of boring girls

Vault101 said:
[quote/]Men can choose to not buy GTA 5 but they *cannot* chose to not live in a world where millions of men and women find simulations of their deaths and murder to be a fun diversion in a video game.
funny how this only ever becomes an "issue" when its used as some kind of false counter point to whatever "feminist thing of the month" is doing the rounds
Thats the point, its not an issue - men dont care, we get gunned down and killed in real life everyday but we dont get sensitive about it in video games.[/quote]

You really can't say that Vault or "feminism" can't speak for women, and then insult her and the women she engages with, and then speak for all men.

Also: In Australia, we don't get gunned down and killed everyday. I've never known a single person who was shot. That's not an uncommon experience. Something about those pesky gun laws and the Port Arthur Massacre.