I demand a big picture about the Mario franchise.
Its been a long time coming.
*They have never been to Brooklyn.
Its been a long time coming.
*They have never been to Brooklyn.
The Big Picture: Continuity Wars
- Thread starter MovieBob
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I kind of like seeing people's bubbles burst so I'm okay with this.
Sort of. For example they kind of messed with the Dathomir Witches, but on the other hand the Witches don't exist at all in the films, only in the books/comics, so it's also an EU thing that's gotten "upgraded" into the more normal continuity so to speak. Same with things like yellow and black as a lightsaber colors and clone commandos.Falseprophet said:
I've figured they wouldn't adapt any EU material, but at the same time I expect they won't go out of their way to contridict anything either. Star Wars is already something of a continuity mess with the Clone Wars series, the office origin of Boba Fett, and introduction of Marvel comics elements they'd tried to forget about, another hastily patch job of continuity rationalization won't change much. Until they actively contradict something important (resurrect Chewbaca or something) I'm sure fans will try and make it all work.
There's a lot of ifs for something we don't know when is going to be set, or even what characters they'll use. Avoiding the EU makes sense if you have your own fanfic futures (or pasts) you want to bring to the big screen, but if we go to new characters, there's almost no harm whatsoever to throwaway allusions to characters and EU stories. It could even sell some books. This is one of those things I really don't think they should sit on and let fans stew about. As much hype as they want, they probably should have at least had a presentable premise for us before announcing episode 7. At least then, we'd know what to expect and could deal with the fallout instead of arguing "will they / won't they, should they / shouldn't they".
There's a lot of ifs for something we don't know when is going to be set, or even what characters they'll use. Avoiding the EU makes sense if you have your own fanfic futures (or pasts) you want to bring to the big screen, but if we go to new characters, there's almost no harm whatsoever to throwaway allusions to characters and EU stories. It could even sell some books. This is one of those things I really don't think they should sit on and let fans stew about. As much hype as they want, they probably should have at least had a presentable premise for us before announcing episode 7. At least then, we'd know what to expect and could deal with the fallout instead of arguing "will they / won't they, should they / shouldn't they".
I really don't get this obsession with continuity in general -- who cares how the different Zeldas or Marios are related and what Dark Knight Rises has to do with Batman and Robin? I would like to think that each story can be self contained without having to necessary be 100% connected to specific events from the other installments.
I will only agree ot that seeing as mario's is still debatable where as wiht LoZ we have the Hyrule HistoriaLvl 64 Klutz said:
Yeah, Daala becoming the Chief of State was...stretching it, to say the least. This is the same woman who went around and bombed from orbit the home world of Admiral Ackbar. I could never swallow that so many worlds would be willing to forgive and forget what she did. This is a lady who ran a terrorist campaign against civilian targets and was feared whenever her name was mentioned by citizens.LostTimeLady said:
Anyway, I was never expecting them to follow the storylines of any of the books. Harrison, Carrie, and Mark are far too old (and haven't exactly aged well) to renew their roles for those books. As cool as it would be to see, say, the Thrawn Trilogy (because that's the one everyone likes to hold up) made into a movie, the only way that would work would be if it was animated. Because recasting Han Solo, Princess Leia, and Luke Skywalker would most likely cause riots. Although Star Trek did pull it off...
Still, I really don't want to start keeping track of two timelines. The care that each writer takes to connect their stories and characters to other books is very impressive to me. Just reading Mercy Kill closed a storyline that I've been wondering about ever since I finished the original Wraith Squadron books. So, what I would like them to do, although I doubt they will, is set these new movies AFTER the latest Star Wars book (Crucible I believe is the next one). Have Jaina, Ben, Tahiri, Allana, and all the other children be the main characters. This way you have tons backstory to draw on, but you can still tell all-new stories. Jaina can just mention what happened to her brothers and that can be a driving force for her character. If people really want to know what the Vong war is that she's talking about, they can go look it up or read the books.
This is also a great way to make it so the original cast can return and reprise their roles. Han and Leia showing up as old people now makes sense because the movie is about their children and grandchildren. Mark Hamill said that he too feels that the next set of movies should be about the next generation.
So that's what I'd like to see Disney do. Use the EU as a base and build off of it. Will this actually happen? Probably not, but I can hope.
The ones in bold are really the only two I haven't liked. Wonder Woman's ongoing has been a good read, but I still feel some fundamental point of her existence was missed when her origin was changed from being carved of clay by her mother and then empowered by Athena, Hera, Aphrodite and Artemis (among others) for all her abilities. I mean change is good and all but you cannot GET any more cliche in Greek myth than 'Fathered by Zues's famously busy Penis' if you tried.Mr_Terrific said:
As for Cyborg, well, I just like Martian Manhunter more, so that's a petty gripe
As for the rest, I'm pretty on board, especially Supergirl: her book has been one of my favorites of the New52.
I'm primarily an EU fan, and I'm actually optimistic about this move. I've always thought Lucas' inflexible, unyielding, conservative Christian-inspired, and frankly idiotic ideas about absolute good (except for how it really isn't) vs. absolute evil (except for how it sometimes isn't) and that you can only be Light or Dark have unfairly hamstrung the EU. Every time some writer has managed to sneak some complexity in there, it gets retconned out later. (I will never, NEVER forgive the "Vergere was really a Sith" retcon. EVER.)
Take one of my favorite bits of the EU, the NJO. I loved the NJO because it created an enemy that wasn't, for once, the Sith, because it forced alliances of the most unlikely people, for everything about "Traitor" and its marvelous Force-philosophy complexity, for letting some of the non-Force using characters shine, for actually showing Princess Leia as a kickass diplomat, for the way Jacen found to win without killing (something you'd think the Jedi would be better at than they generally are), for showing a war as a nasty, gritty, awful mess instead of a few seconds of cheering and medal-winning (something KOTOR also excelled at), for painting many of the enemy as sympathetic while *still having them be part of the enemy* (in the '90s it seemed like every time you'd get an Imperial protagonist, they'd defect), and for showing how you can have epic action without the kindergarten morality. None of that list is about the Vong specifically, or the specific events of the NJO. If they found a way to give me some of the same kinds of things in a completely different plot, I'd be all over that. I honestly can't wait to see what the franchise can accomplish without Lucas clipping its wings.
Take one of my favorite bits of the EU, the NJO. I loved the NJO because it created an enemy that wasn't, for once, the Sith, because it forced alliances of the most unlikely people, for everything about "Traitor" and its marvelous Force-philosophy complexity, for letting some of the non-Force using characters shine, for actually showing Princess Leia as a kickass diplomat, for the way Jacen found to win without killing (something you'd think the Jedi would be better at than they generally are), for showing a war as a nasty, gritty, awful mess instead of a few seconds of cheering and medal-winning (something KOTOR also excelled at), for painting many of the enemy as sympathetic while *still having them be part of the enemy* (in the '90s it seemed like every time you'd get an Imperial protagonist, they'd defect), and for showing how you can have epic action without the kindergarten morality. None of that list is about the Vong specifically, or the specific events of the NJO. If they found a way to give me some of the same kinds of things in a completely different plot, I'd be all over that. I honestly can't wait to see what the franchise can accomplish without Lucas clipping its wings.
I really doubt she is stronger than Mr.I can bench press the earth for 5 days and have only a single drop of sweat.Gordon_4 said:The ones in bold are really the only two I haven't liked. Wonder Woman's ongoing has been a good read, but I still feel some fundamental point of her existence was missed when her origin was changed from being carved of clay by her mother and then empowered by Athena, Hera, Aphrodite and Artemis (among others) for all her abilities. I mean change is good and all but you cannot GET any more cliche in Greek myth than 'Fathered by Zues's famously busy Penis' if you tried.Mr_Terrific said:
As for Cyborg, well, I just like Martian Manhunter more, so that's a petty gripe
As for the rest, I'm pretty on board, especially Supergirl: her book has been one of my favorites of the New52.
It has some degree of canonSotanaht said:
I would think the sega kid in you should weep for the shell of a company sega is now.kburns10 said:
Mario and Luigi are obviously the Mushroom Kingdom equivalent to Hercules, with divinely powerful strength and jumping capabilities. Now if only we could get a black comedy mini-series or game spoofing that.
As for the Star Wars EU, people got invested in some of the more interesting characters in that setting. Mara Jade is a popular one (along with Thrawn), but then there's stuff like Wedge, Corran Horn, the Solo Children, and so forth. It was inevitable that people would be upset to see that all get turfed, since (god knows) people get emotionally invested in this stuff (any Harry Potter shipper could tell you that).
Personally, I'm just hoping that they don't show Luke as married. That seems wrong to me - post-Return of the Jedi Luke is an Obi-Wan-esque wanderer, traveling the galaxy and training students when the Force brings them to him. Moreover, he's "got it figured out", having become a true Jedi. I don't think any of the inevitable tie-in fiction for the new continuity should have Luke POVs, as opposed to POVs of people around him.
But of course, the real winner in this video was Bob's excellent one-line descriptions of stuff. Like how fanboyism is taking stuff seriously to the inverse degree that it's actually something you should be taking seriously. Or that hilarious description of the EU as "for-profit fanfiction".
As for the Star Wars EU, people got invested in some of the more interesting characters in that setting. Mara Jade is a popular one (along with Thrawn), but then there's stuff like Wedge, Corran Horn, the Solo Children, and so forth. It was inevitable that people would be upset to see that all get turfed, since (god knows) people get emotionally invested in this stuff (any Harry Potter shipper could tell you that).
Personally, I'm just hoping that they don't show Luke as married. That seems wrong to me - post-Return of the Jedi Luke is an Obi-Wan-esque wanderer, traveling the galaxy and training students when the Force brings them to him. Moreover, he's "got it figured out", having become a true Jedi. I don't think any of the inevitable tie-in fiction for the new continuity should have Luke POVs, as opposed to POVs of people around him.
But of course, the real winner in this video was Bob's excellent one-line descriptions of stuff. Like how fanboyism is taking stuff seriously to the inverse degree that it's actually something you should be taking seriously. Or that hilarious description of the EU as "for-profit fanfiction".
I'm expecting them to use the universe and start telling stories about different characters, to me that makes the most sense. Kind of like you can have the next generation enterprise, deep space nine and voyager sort of next to each other, except now we are talking star wars and movies.
As far the Star Wars gig goes, I agree with Movie Bob 100%.
As far as "DC vs Marvel" goes, I agree 50% I prefer DC, but that's not the point, that's just subjectivism. What didn't sit well with me is saying that marvel has a good continuity... I mean, I used to read a LOT of Marvel stuff, then I stopped, then I picked it up again and stopped again, and all this while, YES it had amazing continuity. Recently I bought the omnibus for Avengers Vs X-Men, which was the worst comic book saga I've EVER read, it looked like a childish "if Thor and Wolverine went to battle, who'd win???" discussion, and all of a sudden we get thrown into Marvel Now (stupid me, WILL give it a third strike, I really like X-Men and really want to get myself to enjoy the damn thing), which seemed to me to make no sense whatsoever, the "continuity" is there, but it's all messed up to the level of being unrecognizable. AND SO WAS DC, but the New 52 is doing a goddamn fine job in keeping up a brand new continuity, the whole solution was, to me, wonderful, they rebooted with a hiatus of 5 years wher many important events remain valid (such as The Joker killing Jason), the most amazing of all in the New 52, is, ironically, the very hero I used to hate the most: Superman, it's the first time I enjoy the character, he's still the ultra-nice-guy, but he's no longer a sucker, and his comics are making complete sense as they interact with one another.
BUUUUUUUUUUT, there's something much more important than what I enjoy the most or what has more or less continuity: the fact that I couldn't give a fuck. The new 52 allowed me to get into better touch with many heroes I wasn't quite acquainted with before, but if the continuity SUCKED I'd still love the comics (provided the story was as good as they are, grifter for instance used to be my favorite Wildstorm character, and I think he's the worst shit to have ever happen in the New 52...). Obviously, this means I don't care about Marvel's continuity either, it's just that their Marvel Now comics have a very bad storytelling, like that time traveling bullshit with the X-Men, and Xavier getting killed so many times in such a small period...
As far as "DC vs Marvel" goes, I agree 50% I prefer DC, but that's not the point, that's just subjectivism. What didn't sit well with me is saying that marvel has a good continuity... I mean, I used to read a LOT of Marvel stuff, then I stopped, then I picked it up again and stopped again, and all this while, YES it had amazing continuity. Recently I bought the omnibus for Avengers Vs X-Men, which was the worst comic book saga I've EVER read, it looked like a childish "if Thor and Wolverine went to battle, who'd win???" discussion, and all of a sudden we get thrown into Marvel Now (stupid me, WILL give it a third strike, I really like X-Men and really want to get myself to enjoy the damn thing), which seemed to me to make no sense whatsoever, the "continuity" is there, but it's all messed up to the level of being unrecognizable. AND SO WAS DC, but the New 52 is doing a goddamn fine job in keeping up a brand new continuity, the whole solution was, to me, wonderful, they rebooted with a hiatus of 5 years wher many important events remain valid (such as The Joker killing Jason), the most amazing of all in the New 52, is, ironically, the very hero I used to hate the most: Superman, it's the first time I enjoy the character, he's still the ultra-nice-guy, but he's no longer a sucker, and his comics are making complete sense as they interact with one another.
BUUUUUUUUUUT, there's something much more important than what I enjoy the most or what has more or less continuity: the fact that I couldn't give a fuck. The new 52 allowed me to get into better touch with many heroes I wasn't quite acquainted with before, but if the continuity SUCKED I'd still love the comics (provided the story was as good as they are, grifter for instance used to be my favorite Wildstorm character, and I think he's the worst shit to have ever happen in the New 52...). Obviously, this means I don't care about Marvel's continuity either, it's just that their Marvel Now comics have a very bad storytelling, like that time traveling bullshit with the X-Men, and Xavier getting killed so many times in such a small period...
There i was , blissfully ignorant of Mario's continuity problems... but i like knowing this anyway.
