The Big Picture: Link Be A Lady

[Eri]

I would have no problem with a female Link, however I'm apparently the only one who didn't get confused about Link's gender when looking at this game's footage.

I still don't see how any of you people thought Link was a woman. Maybe some of you think even the slightest bit of femininity means "OMG WOMAN"?

Noooope. You are not the only one. Bottom of page 3.

 

[xaszatm]

To be sure I think that it would be a welcome change, but I think that it needs to come with a certain degree of additional work if it's going to be anything other than a gender flip "stunt."
In other words, the first time Link shows up as a lady, the game needs to be one of the few times within the series that Link is given more personality than the gawping "Let's save Hyrule because...reasons" protagonist that he usually is.

No, I'd disagree. Making a big deal about the character's gender and choosing then to define their personality is what Other M did, and we don't want a repeat of that.

Just make the game like Nintendo would if it were Link as usual, then flip the pronouns. Nothing about it calls for anything more than that.

It's a valid point. I'd argue that where Other M failed was less in trying to flesh out Samus' personality and more in their insistence that all of her fleshed out personality traits be linked, rather negatively, to her gender.

Apropos of nothing we were presented with a Samus who is overly concerned with motherhood, and abandonment issues and impressing a boy she likes and is frail and cowering in the face of big scary monsters...it was all ham handed and more than a little offensive.
Any one, or all of these things could have worked in a different game or better script, but with Other M we're just meant to assume all of these things make sense for Samus because she's a lady.


Where I think a female Link would need to stand out is really something I think the LoZ series should have been doing for a long time. All too often Link just stumbles ass backwards into an adventure and then lets the momentum carry him through. If a game were to present itself with a female Link it's going to get a lot of knee jerk hostility that I think can be deflected by having a stronger narrative foundation.

Skyward Sword did try to give Link some actual character development and some motivations. Whether it worked or not is up to the player.

I'd argue that they've been giving Link more of a personality for years now. Hell, I still say Spirit Tracks is the one game that gives Link and Zelda more of a full personality instead of the stereotypes they usually are. Yes, you play as Link (and semi-play as Zelda) but there personality is shown in a multitude of ways in both the game itself and in cutscenes that it remains my favorite Zelda game period.

OT: I can't find much to argue here. I'm not seeing much difference in the story if Link was a girl in the earlier games and the later games all gave Link a different personality (including none) that changing the gender really isn't going to make a difference to me. Though, with Eiji, anything is possible.

[img=http://puu.sh/9xymr/193618c7c1.gif]http://puu.sh/9xymr/193618c7c1.gif[/img]

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Man, why make it a female Link, just make a new Metroid game, we haven't have one since Metroid Prime 3.

Female Link exists, her name is Samus, and she is a badass ("less Zero Suit, more Guns to Shoot, Nintendo"). She's also proof Nintendo has already DONE this given how she came to be who she is.

All seriousness, I can see a case for having the option to select a gender at the start but Rule 63 isn't really a good way to diversify games. Supergirl and Batwoman (at their inception) were not good examples of creating female characters since they just do all the things their male counterparts did but now it's a girl, Wonder Woman was designed and built around being a female character, if someone made a Wonder Boy for her sidekick he'd equally just be a Rule 63 Wonder Girl take off and likely not very well made, while Wonder Woman herself is hella interesting. Modern day Batwoman and Supergirl ARE pretty interesting but they're also way different to what they started as.

I like the idea of more female characters, I just think gender-swapping a character because "Why not?" isn't it, it's just pandering. Also, bonus note, Hyrule Warriors currently has 3 female to 1 male characters on the split, Nintendo is really giving this whole female characters thing a shot..

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I would have no problem with a female Link, however I'm apparently the only one who didn't get confused about Link's gender when looking at this game's footage.

I still don't see how any of you people thought Link was a woman. Maybe some of you think even the slightest bit of femininity means "OMG WOMAN"?

Noooope. You are not the only one. Bottom of page 3.

Oh sorry, 1 of 2 people then.

 

[Auron225]

Who doesn't want to play a magic ninja elf who is wise-as-fuck?

Such an eloquent way of describing ones possession of the triforce of wisdom

OT: This discussion again I see, although with just cause for sparking it off once more. My own opinion hasn't changed - it is essentially Bobs opinion actually (it was nice to hear someone else say it ). I think it'd be a refreshing change to the LoZ franchise and Link is the only character I can think of in which it would be so very easy to do. In fact, one could argue that is very much bizarre that there hasn't been a female Link already after so many reincarnations of Link.

As for making Zelda the protagonist - sure, that could work too. Links character may become pointless if he isn't also playable though; maybe there could be some mechanic that allowed the player to switch between them?

What I don't get is why those two options (female Link and protagonist Zelda) have to mutually exclusive. It might be rocking the boat a bit much to do both in the same game but we all know there will likely be plenty more Zelda games. Nintendo will never let it die so why can't both of these scenarios be tried at some point or another?

 

[Vault101]

I must confess that I breathed a sigh of relief that the appearance of The Game Overthinker and pals at the beginning was just a "tease".

That being said, I agree with Bob that it would be good publicity for Nintendo if they made this Link female. Though I don't know if that would help in "fighting back" at the misogyny in some parts of the gaming community. Think of it this way: if we dismiss the notion that violent games can make people violent, then how can someone think that more "fair representation" of female/gay/trans/ characters would lead to more acceptance of these groups?

Because they are different things

And because you shouldn't dismiss ideas just to save face

I honestly think lack of representation dues have an effect...it's not just games it's all our media, as much as I hate to bring out a dead hoarse how many guys do you think swallowed this idea not only if the mild mannered "nice guy" but harassing a girl and breaking her down into saying "yes" are in fact grand romantic gestures...that if she's not interested you just have to try harder or hell all those girls saying "they aren't like most girls because they're carry and dudes are laid back and cool" I'm sure they get this idea from the media to some extent

 

[Evil Smurf]

Zelda is basically the reincarnated avatar of the goddess Hylia.

Now that would make a good game, the backstory, with Zelda being a Goddess.

 

[Akiraking]

I personally do not want Link's gender to be flipped. I know the creators believe he is purely an avatar to link you to the world but he is a character to me. A spirit being reborn countless times to fight evil. I would like that to be addressed in a game but it would be too high level for a Nintendo story. Also games like Skyward Sword and Wind Waker have given him too much character to just be gender flipped without it meaning anything. If people want a female protagonist then make a game where you play as Link or Zelda or someone new. I just want the option to be Link, not because I am a sexist homophobic creep who dislikes playing as woman but because I like Link and I want him to stay him. Once they start doing things like flipping genders he truly becomes nothing more than an avatar and I don't want to see him as just that.

So to recap, introduce a new female character, that would be fine, have Link in the story, introduce him as your teacher or your friend whatever. Make him playable as well but don't just give Link breasts and think that makes the game better.

 

[the December King]

I personally do not want Link's gender to be flipped. I know the creators believe he is purely an avatar to link you to the world but he is a character to me. A spirit being reborn countless times to fight evil. I would like that to be addressed in a game but it would be too high level for a Nintendo story. Also games like Skyward Sword and Wind Waker have given him too much character to just be gender flipped without it meaning anything. If people want a female protagonist then make a game where you play as Link or Zelda or someone new. I just want the option to be Link, not because I am a sexist homophobic creep who dislikes playing as woman but because I like Link and I want him to stay him. Once they start doing things like flipping genders he truly becomes nothing more than an avatar and I don't want to see him as just that.

So to recap, introduce a new female character, that would be fine, have Link in the story, introduce him as your teacher or your friend whatever. Make him playable as well but don't just give Link breasts and think that makes the game better.

I'm kinda of the same opinion. Link should stay a boy, and if people want to play a girl, why not Zelda? After all, she is already a character in her own right by now. To be fair, I haven't played any of the later games of Zelda, but I seem to recall Zelda herself being given more freedom in her roles than in the older games.

I mean, if we're swapping genders, why not include a Sam Aran, a Larry Croft, or a Super Mary- Anne? Actually, scrap that last one, I just realized that would most likely be Princess Peach. As a playable. I'm just saying that sometimes I think the sex of a character should stay as the writers determine it to be to tell their story, and sometimes you should be free to choose a custom look/sex/height/color for yourself. I feel that this is not one of those times.

Except to perhaps play as Zelda, of course.

 

[Necromancer1991]

As far as making Zelda a man goes, I think that would be a little bit more difficult than making Link a woman, since Zelda is basically the reincarnated avatar of the goddess Hylia.

Link, meanwhile, is basically The Hero Hyrule Needs Right Now.

To be fair, even though Hylia is gendered as female reincarnation generally ignores the physical gender of any given incarnation's body. The main reason that Hylia was likely gendered as female in the first place is that she represents a lot of typically "feminine" traits, as long as these traits were passed on to the next incarnation of the soul it wouldn't really be that drastic a change regardless of gender. Same goes for Link, as long as his courage and willingness to help the downtrodden makes the jump it wouldn't be that crazy to make him female.

 

[Kingjackl]

I personally do not want Link's gender to be flipped. I know the creators believe he is purely an avatar to link you to the world but he is a character to me. A spirit being reborn countless times to fight evil. I would like that to be addressed in a game but it would be too high level for a Nintendo story. Also games like Skyward Sword and Wind Waker have given him too much character to just be gender flipped without it meaning anything. If people want a female protagonist then make a game where you play as Link or Zelda or someone new. I just want the option to be Link, not because I am a sexist homophobic creep who dislikes playing as woman but because I like Link and I want him to stay him. Once they start doing things like flipping genders he truly becomes nothing more than an avatar and I don't want to see him as just that.

So to recap, introduce a new female character, that would be fine, have Link in the story, introduce him as your teacher or your friend whatever. Make him playable as well but don't just give Link breasts and think that makes the game better.

I'm kinda of the same opinion. Link should stay a boy, and if people want to play a girl, why not Zelda? After all, she is already a character in her own right by now. To be fair, I haven't played any of the later games of Zelda, but I seem to recall Zelda herself being given more freedom in her roles than in the older games.

I mean, if we're swapping genders, why not include a Sam Aran, a Larry Croft, or a Super Mary- Anne? Actually, scrap that last one, I just realized that would most likely be Princess Peach. As a playable. I'm just saying that sometimes I think the sex of a character should stay as the writers determine it to be to tell their story, and sometimes you should be free to choose a custom look/sex/height/color for yourself. I feel that this is not one of those times.

Except to perhaps play as Zelda, of course.

I think Bob explained pretty well why Link should be female- because Link is the hero of the story, and is meant to be a projection of the player. They let you choose his name in nearly every game, why not let you choose his gender as well? If you wanted to keep playing as a male Link, you wouldn't loose anything- there are tons of Zelda games out there that let you do that. But the option to play as a female? That's never been done before, and we've seen from the E3 reaction that a lot of people want it to happen.

 

[Meander112]

All I want to say is that if Nintendo did decide to do a genderswap on Link for the next game, I would buy a WiiU just to play it. I don't even have an HDTV, either, just this monitor.

 

[Swarmcrow]

You know Bob.... when you implied at the begging of the video about the possibility of having a female link in the new zelda
you actually Got me really exited (cause you are Right , Ist something NEW!!)






... but the moment you start talking how this was big cultural thing, you killed it for me ....I don't want a female link if it comes along some stupid game changing social political crap hysteria ...


I just want good Games... games that 20 years from now, make me come back and replay them not just for nostalgia but for how genuinely Good well design they where

 

[nightazday]

Definitely like a female link. Though you are kinda off on the reincarnation bit (Ganons are the same person, Zelda are all of the same family line) Link can be anyone. I think most of the gaming community is behind you (though many not for the same feminist reasons, and almost none likes your GameOverthinker persona).

That being said I fucking love the trailer regardless.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Well, the WiiU sales actually HAVE been picking up as of late, mostly due to Mario Kart. I wonder what will happen when Smash Bros. finally comes to the system and it suddenly becomes thee system for college dorm rooms.

 

[Groverfield]

I'd prefer the first female link to be on the more masculine side of the androgynous side of things, just to screw with expectations.

 

[Flunk]

What they should do is give you the choice of playing as a male or female character in Zelda. Why not? They need to make this a choice in more games, I have it on great authority that female gamers want to see more female avatars. You would too if you actually talked to some female gamers.

 

[the December King]

I'm kinda of the same opinion. Link should stay a boy, and if people want to play a girl, why not Zelda? After all, she is already a character in her own right by now. To be fair, I haven't played any of the later games of Zelda, but I seem to recall Zelda herself being given more freedom in her roles than in the older games.

I mean, if we're swapping genders, why not include a Sam Aran, a Larry Croft, or a Super Mary- Anne? Actually, scrap that last one, I just realized that would most likely be Princess Peach. As a playable. I'm just saying that sometimes I think the sex of a character should stay as the writers determine it to be to tell their story, and sometimes you should be free to choose a custom look/sex/height/color for yourself. I feel that this is not one of those times.

Except to perhaps play as Zelda, of course.

I think Bob explained pretty well why Link should be female- because Link is the hero of the story, and is meant to be a projection of the player. They let you choose his name in nearly every game, why not let you choose his gender as well? If you wanted to keep playing as a male Link, you wouldn't loose anything- there are tons of Zelda games out there that let you do that. But the option to play as a female? That's never been done before, and we've seen from the E3 reaction that a lot of people want it to happen.

Uuuh, I dunno. I guess you have a point, but at what do we just let a character be who it is? Should games be defined, or have as a defining feature from now on, the ability to choose what you play at all times? I'm actually not challenging that possibility, by the way, so much as giving it shape. In the end, if I had the option to choose the sex of the character, I would be cool, because it's inclusive to others and means those people get to feel welcome. I'd feel less welcome if characters I once thought I knew were suddenly permanently gender-swapped 'just because'.

 

[Kuth]

No, it's not a good idea for the reasons Bob is putting out. That's not to say that having a female Link or just a female protagonist in Zelda (CDi games don't count) as a good thing, it's that Bob's reasons are shallow and pointless.

Bob wants one game company to change their formula because other game companies are doing the same thing with pale skin males? If that is the case we have a major issue with this, that game developers need to change what they write just for the sake of the industry, and free it from stagnation. A Zelda game needs to be a good game in it's own right, and to just point at other games and now declare that Zelda franchise should take a risk because of the actions of others really puts this dialog that creators need to change their style for sake of being 'fresh'. This brings it back to another problem, why should individuals who make games change what type of games?

I repeat this time and time again when this mention of genders come up in games, it's pointless. There are very few roles that are gender specific and rarely is that devated when it comes to video games. It really boils down to creators, which are usual light skin (Asian and Caucasian) males and their views of the world. This is the greatest problem we have is that diversity is severly lacking in the video game industry, so why are we telling these things? The answer is simple, we have girls, minorities, LGBT etc, who are not represented in games as greatly as they ought.

We as the gamer community can scream till we are blue at the face, but until we have people of diversity: Women, minorites, LGBT, in the development room, where the echo chamber lies, we are not going to see fast progress. Every thing Bob said will be noted to Nintendo, I am certain of that, but why are they going to even listen? Developers listen to other developers more than outsiders, so I doubt much change will come of it.

 

[UsefulPlayer 1]

Damn, Link was looking pretty good as a girl. I hope Nintendo gets on board and make it so.

But in the mean time, I guess I'm just gay