The Big Picture: Maddening

[Baneat]

I would hardly call a bird's nest not a building.

And the cat thing was kind of a joke, so on a serious note:

It's a circle of sticks.

And fair enough on the monkey. But I'll shake his hand in a few thousand years when it evolves enough to speak.

Our first buildings were a circle of sticks. Children make circles of sticks and call them buildings.

And are you implying that the communicative noises animals make isn't talking? If you're saying that, you're a downright moron.

Best monkey ever!

 

[Baneat]

I agree with you Bob, Peta's Hypocrites, Michael Vick is a freaking monster, and, Personally, Vick was killing something that has some more than basic thought [dogs aren't stupid, but they can't create the next robotic Einstein either]
FOR MONEY!! Money, for torturing DOGS, thats a freaking low.
EA, stop making retarded choices with your marketing.
Bob, I'm with you on all you said in that episode.

Money's different from better tasting food in which way (tofu+plants or w/e the fuck vegans eat)?

 

[JochemDude]

100% Agree

 

[Pyode]

[

What if I captured two deer, had them fight, and then cooked them for dinner and otherwise used them as various resources.
Would that count?

See how the line gets really blurry?

This is theoretical of course. I'm no hunter. I can barely catch a damn cat in my apartment when I want to.

You kind of ignored my explanation of why it's wrong.

Just like dogs, you wouldn't be able to just put two deer in a pen and have them fight. You would have to torture and abuse them from birth in order to get them to fight and kill each other.

That is the primary reason why it is wrong (having them fight for entertainment is still horrible, but it's not the worst part of it).

So, no, it's not that blurry of a line.

 

[Eveonline100]

i'm actullay kinda slipt on this issue
on one hand he paid his debt to soctiy, been though a round of bad news etc, so there for he should be allowed to put this behind him on there hands yes i understand he is a jackoff. But the one thing i say is this should a person be allowed to live there life with there transgreation behind? thoughts?

 

[Arawn.Chernobog]

Seriously, guys? NOBODY believes in second chances? I thought that the justice system was designed to rehabilitate people, and Vick seems to be rehabilitated (unlike countless others who have not changed their ways).

He's little more then a trained nitwit capable of "playing around with a ball" and was overpayed for it, despite his luxurious lifestyle he CHOSE to torture and assist in the torture of defenseless animals and in pitting them in deathmatches.

He's lucky he's allowed to walk the street without anyone running him over, that's his "second chance". I know I wouldn't hit the brakes.

 

[icame]

Yet again bob, you are right.

 

[mythil]

I like sports.. No really I do, I am also a total nerd

However, one thing I see about sportsmen and women all over the world is that they will be forgiven anything if they win one for the team, which is terrible. First of all, lets forget that he's being considered for the cover of a game.. He should never have been allowed to play in the first place.. IMO, America is the worst for letting criminals back into the game.

 

[Grunt_Man11]

Seriously, guys? NOBODY believes in second chances? I thought that the justice system was designed to rehabilitate people, and Vick seems to be rehabilitated (unlike countless others who have not changed their ways).

Second chances are something that should be EARNED not given.

Vick didn't earn a second chance, if you ask me. He was unjustly given one simply because he can toss a ball well.

If anyone deserved a second chance it was those dogs. Luckily a few of them did, but most of them didn't.

 

[Zydrate]

If you're saying that, you're a downright moron.

Now, was that really necessary?

I simply don't see non-human animals as equals. Is this really such an offensive concept?

 

[linkzeldi]

Wait... I just picked this line up on a second viewing.

Bob: "We don't even know if there's going to be an NFL season in 2012..."

Why wouldn't there be? Bob, are you a believer in the 2012 apocalypse, or did something big go down in the NFL that I completely missed?

NFL Lockout man,
The players and managers are having contract disagreements, and threatening to strike. Which would result in there being no 2012 season.

Edit: We should all pool together and vote for Adrian Peterson though, not to say I'm biased or anything.
*Hiding Vikings Jersey Behind Back*

 

[burningdragoon]

Maddening

MovieBob wonders why people keep buying Madden, and why anyone would want Michael Vick on the cover.

Watch Video

I'm with you on this, but I do want to throw in an alternate reasoning:

It's okay to ask us to forgive Vick. It's okay to ask that we believe in redemption, and to open ourselves up to the possibility that we are also capable of all evil things if the world were to just catch us on a bad day. It's okay to point out the fact that he's "done his time" and is trying to get his act together. All of that is okay, and I agree.

However.

Forgiving someone, or believing they have redeemed themselves, does not mean forestalling the logical consequences of those actions. It is not wrong, unforgiving, or uncharitable to vehemently want to deny Vick this spot. He paid his legal debt to society, and that's fine. It means he cannot be punished again, but refusing to honor something is not the same as punishment.

If someone robs me and gunpoint, goes to jail, gets out, and then comes to see me for forgiveness, I might choose to use that opportunity to forgive them. I'd let them know that I didn't like what they did, and I'd stop wishing horrible things to happen to them. I'd let them know I really do hope they go on to make better choices. But forgiving them doesn't mean I have to like them, be "buddies," or ever even speak to them ever again. I certainly don't have to make them best man at my wedding, or keep a picture of them on my desk.

Boom. Winning post right there.

 

[Karthek]

Never fear Bob: sick pieces of shit like Vick get whats coming to them >

 

[Sindre1]

I would hardly call a bird's nest not a building.

It's a circle of sticks.

Dude, I'm pretty damn sure you would not be able to build a nest that would be able to support a grown bird and some eggs.
Windy or not.
Just try it.

 

[Sovereignty]

It took me a long time this past season to be okay with the fact a team hired him on. To come to terms with the league allowing him to return in the first place. Hell I was even peeved the justice system didn't slap him harder for it...

But I'd come to terms with it on the side of, "He went to jail for it. The legal system may not be perfect, but according to those who make the rules, he paid his dues."

And he seemed pretty genuine about trying to turn his shit around. But this is an outrage, and I'm not accepting of this!

Thank you for voicing how bad this is!

If Vick makes it on the cover, this will be the first Madden I don't purchase.

 

[Frostbite3789]

And in today's episode we learned Bob has never played an EA Sports NHL title.

 

[DaHero]

How about instead of a player we just slap whoever this Madden guy is on the cover? Then the only difference will be a number and we can save the EA fanboys some confusion.

 

[Laxman9292]

Maddening

MovieBob wonders why people keep buying Madden, and why anyone would want Michael Vick on the cover.

Watch Video

I'm with you on this, but I do want to throw in an alternate reasoning:

It's okay to ask us to forgive Vick. It's okay to ask that we believe in redemption, and to open ourselves up to the possibility that we are also capable of all evil things if the world were to just catch us on a bad day. It's okay to point out the fact that he's "done his time" and is trying to get his act together. All of that is okay, and I agree.

However.

Forgiving someone, or believing they have redeemed themselves, does not mean forestalling the logical consequences of those actions. It is not wrong, unforgiving, or uncharitable to vehemently want to deny Vick this spot. He paid his legal debt to society, and that's fine. It means he cannot be punished again, but refusing to honor something is not the same as punishment.

If someone robs me and gunpoint, goes to jail, gets out, and then comes to see me for forgiveness, I might choose to use that opportunity to forgive them. I'd let them know that I didn't like what they did, and I'd stop wishing horrible things to happen to them. I'd let them know I really do hope they go on to make better choices. But forgiving them doesn't mean I have to like them, be "buddies," or ever even speak to them ever again. I certainly don't have to make them best man at my wedding, or keep a picture of them on my desk.

Except if the criterion for being on the Madden cover is having a kick ass season. Which Vick undeniably had. Then, if you refuse to keep him in the running for something he clearly qualified for then that is wrong. In your scenario it would be like if your mugger had a phenomenal month at his job after getting out of prison and being rehabilitated, going and denying his eligibility for employee of the month. That is almost exactly like Vick: a man who committed a crime and served his time, then being denied what is essentially an employee of the year honor despite his excellent qualifications for said honor, because of a crime that he was punished for which has no connection to his job.

 

[Laxman9292]

Wait... I just picked this line up on a second viewing.

Bob: "We don't even know if there's going to be an NFL season in 2012..."

Why wouldn't there be? Bob, are you a believer in the 2012 apocalypse, or did something big go down in the NFL that I completely missed?

The NFL lockout? If you aren't a stateside Escapist then that's understandable. But if you are, I'm sorry, but have you been living under a rock?

 

[snyderman8910]

Michael Vick tortured and killed animals for sport. Movie Bob owns a hunting and fishing license. There's a difference between eating meat and going out and killing animals for fun. I'm not saying hunting is the worst thing ever, I just don't get out how you can condemn dog-fighting but support hunting. They're both unsavory in my book.

There's a difference between merely killing animals and torturing them. Conscientious hunters make a serious effort to kill their prey in one shot; merely wounding an animal and letting it get away is considered one of the biggest fuck-ups you can possibly make. As for fishing... well, there are mixed opinions. There's evidence that their neurobiology is so different from that of mammals that they don't even feel pain per se; their minds just register that something bad is happening and that they should try to get away.

You can see why this is so hotly contested. More important, probably, is what Vick's willingness to do what he did says about his neurobiology, if you catch my drift. I don't know all the technical psychological terms, but in layman's terms it's generally agreed that he'd have to be pretty fucked in the head.

So if Michael Vick was conscientious and humane and didn't torture dogs in addition to running a dog-fighting ring, and treated injured dogs like they treat horses that break their legs or something, his actions would be defensible? I get what you're saying but I still think that with hunting you have people who are gaining fulfillment/enjoyment from the death of an animal.

As for the psychology of Michael Vick, I think it's important to recognize that his actions were generally seen as acceptable by his friends, and that it seems like dog-fighting is less reprehensible in segments of the African American population than it is in mainstream America. A perfectly healthy human brain can do some pretty fucked up things if they're told often enough that it's ok, so I don't know that you can really conclude anything about Michael Vick's mental health given what we know (although obviously his actions were wrong).