The Big Picture: Maddening

crimson sickle2

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Sep 30, 2009
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It's possible to make up for previous crimes, even as bad as animal torture. It's difficult and I haven't heard of Vick doing anything towards redemption, but it's possible. My belief is that he shouldn't be put on the cover until he redeems himself.
 

tintaman

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Apr 20, 2010
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In agreeance with Bob on this, but even if i wasn't it IS good to see him getting back to really "Big" pictures, as opposed to the comic/movie nitpicking he's been doing recently. I'd like to see more epsiodes like this.
 

latenightapplepie

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That's odd.

I can't quite fathom how Movie Bob can hate Vick and what he did that much, and not be a vegetarian. But whatever.
 

Blayze2k

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boeingguy787 said:
Seriously, guys? NOBODY believes in second chances? I thought that the justice system was designed to rehabilitate people, and Vick seems to be rehabilitated (unlike countless others who have not changed their ways).
Really? What makes you think he's rehabilitated?
That he's not doing it anymore?
For someone as wealthy as a professional football player, the gambling was probably never a factor, which means that he was pretty much entirely for jollies.
The fact that this makes it 100% more disgusting aside...
...of COURSE he's going to quit once he's caught. It's not really the sort of thing you can get away with after you've been caught doing it.
That doesn't suggest any sort of sincerity to me.

And I get tired of people suggesting that we should just 'let it go.'
I only ever hear that in reference to professional sports players.

What about executed criminals? Should we put them on the covers of video games just because they served their court-mandated sentence? Serial killers and the like?

No, I agree with Bob completely.
Whether or not he is reformed is between him and any God that may exist.
But we do NOT need to be giving this man accolades. If he was really remorseful, I believe he would turn something like this down, realizing that he is not in any position to be a role model.
 
Feb 9, 2011
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vxicepickxv said:
In case anyone else wants to vote against Vick.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/feature/madden2012cover
Done and done. Thank you for the link. I don't even play the Madden games anymore, but I think I will take a moment to vote against him.
 

ZeroCreativity1

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Nov 12, 2010
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Wow! This episode was something alright. It seems to bring up some complicated issues, and i want to go into a few. So here it goes.

Is dogfighting bad?

A lot of people seem to have different opinions on how bad dogfighting is. I guess i'm not too familiar with it, so i don't really want to go to much into this. but the general consensus seems to be that dogfighting deserves a couple years in prison, and probably some more. Due to extraordinary pain the dogs go through and useless nature.

What is Forgiveness?

Let's say, for argument sake, that Vick served a fair sentence and we should forgive him. But what does it exactly mean to "forgive" him? Should we give him a second chance? should we forget about what he's done? Should we give up our resentment and anger towards him and let him get with his football career? For me, the answers are Yes. At least in the sense, that in order to forgive him, you have to answer yes to all those questions. Your definition of forgiveness may vary from mine, but at the end of the day, its much easier to say you've forgiven someone than to actually forgive them.

I would like to note, I lack a certain empathy for Vick. While I personally believe giving him a second chance is the right thing to do, I also believe giving all felons a second a chance. And its extremely frustrating to see Vick get a second chance, while many others can't even get a job, due to their background.


What does a Madden title pic mean?

As far as i can tell it means that "this player is a good player". So I guess I'm having a hard time getting mad about this. It just doesn't seem like it is an acknowledgement of Vick of being a good person, or even that we've forgiven him. I don't know, i guess it goes off the idea that being celebrity makes you a role model, or even the idea that winning an award makes you better than other people. Which, just seem silly to me.

Some People are Just "Bad".

This kind of eat away at me during the video. Basically I kept hearing "I, bob, am a good person. I may do some bad things, but I'm basically a good person. And Vick is a bad person" This may be true, but it conflicts with an idea that is one of my core beliefs. i don't believe there are "good" people and "bad" people. Only people who do good and bad things. I'm not sure if this point makes a difference, but it seems to be used to dehumanize Vick, by saying he's a monster, instead of a complex person, whose made some wrong choices. And at the same time, dismissing your own wrong choices, because hey, your a "good" person after all. It kind of reminds me All My Sons by Arthur Miller. Using the play as example:
Was The Father a bad person? If he had gone to jail and serve his time (instead of shifting the blame), would you have forgiven him(as i have defined above)? did he deserve forgiveness? Was he a murder?

Whew! Well, i feel better. I hope i made a few good points. Thanks for reading my comment.
 

BrainWalker

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Aug 6, 2009
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This kind of reeks of the same kind of "won't someone please think of the children" rhetoric people use in other bullshit arguments. Won't someone please think of the cute little doggies?

I'll agree that dogfighting is pretty vile, but I refuse to agree that you can get away with saying both "look, it's not that I don't believe in redemption" and "this guy is irredeemable" in the same rant. Michael Vick probably doesn't deserve to be a national hero emblazoned on the covers of Wheaties boxes and sports magazines and videogames and what-have-you, but I feel like MovieBob poured on the Hatorade to a disturbingly strong degree.
 

00slash00

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Dec 29, 2009
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i love it when moviebob does an episode i agree with. it happens rarely, but when it does, it makes me happy.

i also love that even a hardcore nintendo fanboy like him, admits that mario galaxy 2 was pretty much a rerelease of the same game
 

Henrik Moeller

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Apr 8, 2010
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Bullshit, he lives in a country with a proper legal system so people like you can't round up a gang of followers and "give him what he deserves!"
If you think the law should be rewritten to disallow convicts being put on game art, then there are proper channels for changing the law.
 

t3h br0th3r

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May 7, 2009
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You say you believe in forgiveness but the price you demand is far higher than anyone should be expected to pay.

Mike Vick went to jail. He lost but-loads of money. He couldn't see his wife and children. He had worked with animal rights organizations to try keep others from doing what he did. He talked to children, using his ENORMOUS influence to keep them from entering dog fighting.

I think he has done enough. In THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA when you serve your time in jail and pay your fines your done with your crime.

I mean come on, the man said he is sorry and he hasn't done it or said he supported it since. No one should have to live the life of poverty Moviebob and others seem to want him to because of one misguided series of actions that didn't harm or impoverish any human beings.
 

CygnusMal

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Sep 19, 2010
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I never imagined that this would be thing thing that would raise me hackles with you Bob (huge fan BTW), but I think during the whole Vick debate there was one huge element that was swept under the carpet: race and his upbringing.

Two things first off. I'm not even slightly accusing anyone who is mad at Vick of being a racist, nor am I attempting to say that what he did was right, however his upbringing in Newport News, VA definitely was instrumental in creating the individual who committed the acts he's now infamous for.

Vick grew up in the projects, and was exposed early on to lots of negative influences. Among those influences was dog fighting. It was part of his upbringing, something he grew up alongside the drug and violence of life in the projects. This isn't an excuse, however much like some in similar impoverished circumstances grow up idolizing drug dealers or pimps, Vick saw dog fighting as something normal, rather that horrible.

I grew up in your standard suburban nuclear family, and my friends and I found an early love of movies, comics and video games. If I ever found my way into a multi-million dollar job throwing a ball, you better believe that I'd call them up and we'd blow an exorbitant amount of money on Gundam pods, classic comics and platinum-plated d20s. Oh and I'd set up my own film studio.

But if I grew up in a similar situation to Vick, you know, it's totally possible that much like him, my high school friends and I might be spending my new-found wealth on pit bulls and rape stands instead of 3D cards and Flash Gordon pulps.

With all that said, I do agree that Vick shouldn't be on the Madden cover this year. One good season of playing a game on TV doesn't in the slightest negate or excuse what he did. But to say that there's no chance of redemption or learning from one's past mistakes is a discredit to us as a society.
 

Vault boy Eddie

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He's a fag that got rich playing a game, and he still felt the need to do illegal shit. If I had millions of dollars aside from putting most of it in a bank, i'd open up as many business ventures and just let the money roll in. So I say fuck him, take away all of his money and make him live in the ghetto, he had his chance and done goofed.
 

happyelf

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Feb 24, 2010
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Oh no, not dog torture! Those poor doggies!

Do you realise how many civilians US troops have killed in afganistan and iraq?
How utterly callous and psychotic the invasion of iraq was, and the hundereds of thousands of people were skilled or driven from their homes due to the shrieking idiocy and evil of the people in charge of your country?

Or do you just not give a shit?
I guess you'll be outraged the next time somebody puts a soldier on the front of a video game?

Oh wait- you said in your review that soldiers deserve forgiveness more than sporting celebrities do, oh, ok. Apparently soldiers are higher on the 'sliding scale of humanity', or something.

Oh and. . apparently when a human gets murdered it's less of an outrage because they kinda deserve it or something?

There are plenty of 'real monsters comitting real unspeakable acts' in your armed forces during occupations in places like iraq - not to mention places like gitmo - but you don't care about that, or the endless oo-rah celebrations of the military that so many video games engage in, normally in directly conjunction with the Pentagon through it's taxpayer funded PR operations. One directly contributes to public neglect of the other, but you're too busy whining about some evil swarthy dog-baiter to even think about that kind of stuff. That would be too close to actual morality for you to contemplate.

The real reason people in the mainstream get so angry about cruelty to animals is they're too gutless and ignorant to care about cruelty to people. And you bob, don't even really care about cruelty to animals, of you'd be complaining about high density pig farming or something, not some obvious easy target and his abuse of rotweilers.

BTW, if there was 'ever a time and place' for you guys on the escapist to 'draw the line', it was when the people who rand this site gave homefront 2 and it's insane, overtly racist persecution fantasy of a plot such a big thumbs up.

Please, go back to comic book trivia tia.
 

feeqmatic

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Jun 19, 2009
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The amount of unmitigated hate towards vick speaks more to inherent bias against what he stands for and much less to what he has done. The fact that admitted hunters, Non vegetarians, sports fans, even one guy who admitted to being a felon, are all against vick becuase he killed dogs makes no sense.

Its one thing to say that dog fighting is wrong and he shouldn't be on the madden cover. cool

But dog fighting is wrong and anyone who does it should have their lives ruined forever and should never get a second chance is BS coming from hunters.

Yeah i know hunting is legal and doesn't involve much torture, but its still unmitigated destruction of innocent animals for the sake of entertainment. Not big enough a gap in my opinion, as the previous poster stated,Vick is so hated because he is a rich Bl---k athlete who maybe didn't deserve what he had in the first place and now people are piling on whatever they can to give their illogical hatred a semi sensible focus.

Now if you are a peta person, a vegan, etc. then i get you and i understand where you come from because your stance fits well with your argument.

But the rest of you guys need to think hard about why you want the man to suffer forever, i doubt it has much to do with dogs...

Bob the more i think about and watch this video the more i am disappointed in you... you lost cool points here buddy.
 

feeqmatic

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Jun 19, 2009
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Vault boy Eddie said:
He's a fag that got rich playing a game, and he still felt the need to do illegal shit. If I had millions of dollars aside from putting most of it in a bank, i'd open up as many business ventures and just let the money roll in. So I say fuck him, take away all of his money and make him live in the ghetto, he had his chance and done goofed.
Case study in subdued veiled and subliminal raci.... i mean ignorance.
 

feeback06

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Sep 14, 2010
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I don't think he should be on the cover because he was already on the cover of Madden 2004.