The Big Picture: Words for Nerds

[2xDouble]

No. No it's not.

"In good fun" is the bully excuse. This is exactly what Bob is talking about.

I think you're misinterpreting his post. It's less "it's fun for me so I should do whatever I want" and more "none of it is serious, quit being butthurt". Honestly, he's right there. The vast majority of cases of racism, homophobia, elitism, etc that I've seen on the internet have been lacking any real bite or meaning behind it. Most of my "internet friends" throw around slurs with reckless abandon, yet not a single one is actually racist, sexist or whatever else. None of it is meant to be taken seriously or to be offensive.

Intent, despite the legal divide, is not separate from action. If you did something, you did it, regardless of how it was meant.

If you wouldn't say something to someone's face, you should probably never say that thing at all. Netiquette 101.

 

[MovieBob]

"If a temple is to be erected, a temple must be destroyed."
- Nietzsche, Genealogy of Morals

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

I'm almost surprised he didn't mention furries at the end there considering they seem to one of those groups that everyone likes to dump crap on.

but furries aren't nerdcore, and they scare everyone. It's safer to not mention them, lest he offend the non-furries by not talking down on them, or the furries and their mighty dwarven armies by doing so

Or maybe it didnt come up

 

[The Cheezy One]

I admit that I did use to bully a couple guys for exactly the reasons Bob has said. I assumed that a pecking order meant it was ok to piss on the guy below you, even if you were only second- or third- bottom yourself. I'm better now, people that I used to bully I try to be nice to, or avoid if for some reason I can't bring myself to accept them.

Pecking order does not validate anything. Be nice to the guy that brings k'nex or mechano to high school.

 

[Agayek]

I'm not a mod and I don't want to be one, but my humble opinion is that if your opinion is so simple that an image macro made years before by people thinking something else encapsulates your point requiring no further elaboration, it might be a better idea to keep that opinion to yourself.

Considering the instances I'm referring to are things like posting an image of a Space Marine Dreadnaught in a debate on the various merits of the factions in 40k, or a Big Lebowski thing about opinions in response to someone ranting.

I could easily write a paragraph or two explaining the point in exhaustive detail, but it's far simpler, easier and conveys the exact same information to simply post the image. 'A picture's worth a thousand words' and all.

 

[Susan Arendt]

No. No it's not.

"In good fun" is the bully excuse. This is exactly what Bob is talking about.

I think you're misinterpreting his post. It's less "it's fun for me so I should do whatever I want" and more "none of it is serious, quit being butthurt". Honestly, he's right there. The vast majority of cases of racism, homophobia, elitism, etc that I've seen on the internet have been lacking any real bite or meaning behind it. Most of my "internet friends" throw around slurs with reckless abandon, yet not a single one is actually racist, sexist or whatever else. None of it is meant to be taken seriously or to be offensive.

And if you sling it around amongst your friends - who know both you and your intent - that's one thing. I can call my girlfriends "hooker" or "whore" all day long, because they know that I love them and don't mean anything by it. But it's unreasonable to expect internet "strangers" to assume that you don't mean anything by it when you start throwing such language around.

That's the core issue, as I see it. Some people seem to put the entire burden on the listener (or reader, as the case may be), and aren't willing to understand or accept their own share of the responsibility when it comes to communication. Until I know you better, I have no choice but to take your words at face value.

 

[Furrama]

Nice one, Bob! I second the calls for a pony episode, though. It's a phenomenon that baffles me, but if it's your thing, then it's your thing. Go for it. I would just appreciate a little insight into something that I am clearly not getting.

I actually might be able to hook you up if he never does it. Let me see if I can find it...

Here it is! Pony retrospective (G1-G3.5): http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/cr/ff/32418-episode-57-my-little-pony-retrospective-part-1

Part 2 (G4): http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/cr/ff/32594-episode-58-my-little-pony-retrospective-g4

I think that's a good place to start if you have the time. CR is more knowledgy about it than I am... I was a little too young for MLP the first time, (though I did have a lunch box and some of the toys). As for the new stuff, he gets into that very well I think.

 

[Agayek]

Intent, despite the legal divide, is not separate from action. If you did something, you did it, regardless of how it was meant.

If you wouldn't say something to someone's face, you should probably never say that thing at all. Netiquette 101.

While I happen to agree with the idea here, I'd have to disagree on the precise wording. Words should not ever be offensive to anyone. Insults and various other verbal attacks are one of two things: Correct or Incorrect. If the latter, they can be entirely ignored. If the former, you have to make a judgment call whether or not you agree that it's a problem. If you find it's not an issue, you can also ignore it. Otherwise, you can take steps to correct it.

Nowhere in there does being butthurt and offended come into the picture. It's a ridiculously silly level of entitlement fantasy to think you can get through life without being exposed to something you disagree with. Being offended by it is fucking ludicrous and really needs to stop.

Note: None of what I said here applies to actions. Any unjustified action taken against you should be met with great amounts of outrage and overwhelming firepower.

Edit:

And if you sling it around amongst your friends - who know both you and your intent - that's one thing. I can call my girlfriends "hooker" or "whore" all day long, because they know that I love them and don't mean anything by it. But it's unreasonable to expect internet "strangers" to assume that you don't mean anything by it when you start throwing such language around.

That's the core issue, as I see it. Some people seem to put the entire burden on the listener (or reader, as the case may be), and aren't willing to understand or accept their own share of the responsibility when it comes to communication. Until I know you better, I have no choice but to take your words at face value.

True. The point I was trying laboriously to get at is that the meaning behind the words means infinitely more than the words themselves. A veiled insult is far more crude than a swear-riddled congratulation. It's not terribly hard to derive meaning from context, even through text, and the ideas are what are important, not the words themselves.

Words are utterly powerless and completely irrelevant. Ideas have all the power. It doesn't matter how they're wrapped up, as long as the concepts are conveyed.

 

[Redd the Sock]

Batman: overplayed, but at least supportable. I always thought the Chuck Noris thing was lame.

Console Wars: See point on bullying

Posts: We all agree if you have nothing to add, shut up, and if you can't state an opinion in your own words you're just a parrot, but long posts...? I'll admit being verbose mostly due to talking to very hard heads in some of these forums that shout down any opinion without a lot of denfese behind it, but I'd prefer not to truncate myself because people can only absorb thoughts in 140 characters or less. I'll try to keep disortations to a minimum.

Bullying: Short version: people are narcisists, hence the victem becomes the bully, and the bully can play the victem all without question (see any political discussion) and the internet just brings out the worst in us. Yes we're hypocrits, but you'd have to talk to the speicies as a whole, not just nerds.

 

[Something Amyss]

The "Batman wins" stuff wasn't cute in the 90s when Wizard did it to death. It's not now.

Console wars are pretty dumb, yes.

Regarding point 4, YES! THANK YOU! I LOVE YOU! People need to actually voice their own opinions. Youtube has made it worse and people lazier.

To the main event, I'm not so sure it necessarily has to do with victimhood. Sure, I see where this is coming from, but I think the bigger issue here is that being a raging sociopath is cool, and anonymity makes it easier than ever.

The worst thing you can do is show you give a damn about something. We associate callous, douche behaviour with coolness. It's not just the internet, look at the "jock" sterotype, or any of the other major "cliques" from high school. Part of how they distinguish themselves is cruelty. The internet makes us faceless, which makes it even easier, and even easier to just flat out dehumanise anyone at all.

I don't think it has anything to do with victimhood, though it might. I'll touch on tha in just a second. What I think it has to do with is nerds being no different from any other group on the planet. People want to be on top. Popular. Liked. Not the bullied, the victim, etc.

Now, I can sort of see victimhood as an issue, but I don't think it's nerd specific. We've become a victimhood culture. Look at the bullying legislation from Michigan. People took great offense at the fact that they couldn't bully people, to the point they were acting the victim. Were they nerds? No. Most of them were simply part of the "religious" subset of humanity, which is why you have legislation where bullying is wrong, unless (to paraphrase Stephen Colbert) you have a note from God.

It came largely down to "how DARE you persecute us for persecuting people?"

That's not to single out religious people as a whole, but you can see a pattern developing even from that example.

People take great offense at the suggestion of sexism or racism in the media, be they nerd or not. sure, gamers ***** when it's games. Comic book geeks ***** when it's comics. But when it's TV? Everyone gets in on the act.

And I won't go into Herman Cain's media circus, because I fear this is already twice as long as I intended. I may have somewhat demonstrated point three here, but I do feel this stuff needs to be commented upon, and any less content would have gutted what I was trying to say.

 

[Something Amyss]

I'd prefer not to truncate myself because people can only absorb thoughts in 140 characters or less.

Heh. I love you for that. Though I would say I think most people are only bothered by what are considered essays for all intents and purposes. If you take 5,000 words to make a point on the internet, you'd doing it wrong.

That being said, anyone whose attention span is ACTUALLY defined by SMS/Twitter character limits can shut right up when I make a post that's 500 WORDS.

 

[drisky]

I hope every single moderator watched number 4 and will stop banning people for short posts.

TL;DR LCP is a stupid rule

I agree.

Moderators should really stop moderating for short posts and instead focus on pointless ones.

Sometimes, a lot more can be said with fewer words. The concise nature of a post can help communicate your point. But not on the Escapist.

Honestly, the low content rule isn't that harsh. As long as you make one complete sentence, lets say a minimum of 5 words, you get past it. If you had just said, "I agree" in that post without the qualifier, it would call for an infraction. However saying as little as "I agree, it is a stupid rule" you wouldn't get an infraction for it, despite not adding anything at all to the discussion. Enforcing a three word minimum is not that terrible. If I had just responded "Wrong" to your posts, it would piss you off for giving absolutely no reason for why I thought it was wrong, thats why one word posts are not allowed.

 

[kyogen]

Nice one, Bob! I second the calls for a pony episode, though. It's a phenomenon that baffles me, but if it's your thing, then it's your thing. Go for it. I would just appreciate a little insight into something that I am clearly not getting.

I actually might be able to hook you up if he never does it. Let me see if I can find it...

Here it is! Pony retrospective (G1-G3.5): http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/cr/ff/32418-episode-57-my-little-pony-retrospective-part-1

Part 2 (G4): http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/cr/ff/32594-episode-58-my-little-pony-retrospective-g4

I think that's a good place to start if you have the time. CR is more knowledgy about it than I am... I was a little too young for MLP the first time, (though I did have a lunch box and some of the toys). As for the new stuff, he gets into that very well I think.

Hey, thanks! I've got a tv, but it's just for movies and games, so there are a lot of things I just don't know about anymore.

 

[Roserari]

The Batman thing is a meme, genius. xD
The Console Wars are Business Wars, get over it
"I'll just leave this here" is the same as a summary, genius.
I think you're kind of missing the point of memes ...

 

[Andarn]

I like your movie reviews and I hope that this column might become extension of that. Come one - nerds in movies - thats a good topic and you would make a blast from it. Nerd mentality ? Too short, too general to be really good.

 

[Drakmeire]

A little more harsh reality.
Just because something is nostalgic doesn't make it better than the new thing. Most of the time it's true but sometimes remakes CAN be better than the original, Scarface, The Thing, Reservoir Dogs; two were remakes and one was a complete rip-off.
Go back and watch Transformers, GI Joe or He-Man and realize how awful those truly were for animation. They created the stereotype that all animation is for kids and no one can die.
Also do NOT reply that's where Anime comes in, I love anime but do not blind yourself when it's lazy or fan-service oriented like many shows can be.
While I say that, Don't crush on fictional characters. Fine if it's meant to be ironic or if it's very slight. But if you will go out of your way to say that a cartoon character is sexier than real women then you have failed and you are putting the entire fandom in a bad light.
I'll just stop before I do a "Book Response"

 

[GeorgW]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The LCP rule is not about the amount of words you post, it's what you say with them. It's true that it's not always been like that, but I've never moderated a post just because the word count was low. I have however done so for meaningless "this^" posts and the "I'll just leave this here:" posts Bob mentioned. However keep in mind that this is a grey area, for more information feel free to check the Moderation FAQ. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.309173-Moderation-FAQ]

This is flat out untrue. I've had numerous moderations for posting an image that perfectly encapsulates my point and required no further elaboration, and when I challenged it, I was straight told that I'd need to include some (any) text with it.

Maybe you don't do it that way, but the other mods sure as hell do.

Images are different. There are a lot of image macros out there that have been created to perfectly sum up thousands of different people's opinions. Why bother to say something in a way made for the exact purpose of being unoriginal? There's nothing wrong with using images to enhance your opinion, but to let them completely embody them is just lazy and discourages discussion.

 

[Jaebird]

Finally! Someone who is as sick of reading book excerpts on forums as I am. Anytime I'm involved in a long, unnecessary "argument" (usually and unintentionally started by me) with some faceless person and/or troll on the internet, I just give up on their four-paragraph diatribe and just say, "Cool story, bro." It's even worse on Facebook, what with the uncomfortably narrow comment column.

 

[Drakmeire]

those that exempt ponies, just think long and hard about this, would you as a grown man wear a shirt out in public or to a club with a picture of the MLP on it? If you even hesitate to say yes, STOP WITH THE MLP fetishism.

Its not cute, its not funny, its just pent up pedophilia. <.<

if you are under the age of 18 you are exempt from that rule. :tf:

The pony fandom is 50% appreciation for a GOOD cartoon. quite simple, the other is 49% irony and 1% people who actually have a fetish. Also how is wearing a T-shirt or being a fan of a good show pedophilia?
Do you like Powerpuff Girls? same thing. It was a great show that I watched as a kid and ENJOYED. being truly manly is liking things because you like them. not being fearful of what people think of you.