The Fallout Debate

[MiracleOfSound]

FEV was in Fallout 2 as well. In fact, it was the central reason for the final mission in the game.

Yes, but it doesn't make any sense that it was in DC. The only places where you could find FEV where in the mariposa military base and on the oil rig, which got blown up along with the Enclave leaders.
Actually, having the Enclave as a villain doesn't really make sense either, since the only other base they had was Navarro, which was just a refuel station for Vertibirds. If you get the NCR ending in which it becomes a military dictatorship, it is mentioned that the soldiers in Navarro joined the NCR since they had nowhere else to go. This also implies that they wouldn't have the resources to become as big as in Fallout 3 or be an independant organisation for that matter.

EDIT: forgot to mention that the mariposa base also got blown up in Fallout1.

Now there's a question for people. How the hell did FEV get to a vault in DC?

As far as I can remember, the enclave developed it themselves on the oil rig, right?

EDII: Wait, that couldn't be right... there was FEV in the Vats in F1, wasn't there?

 

[cheese_wizington]

I agree with you whole heartedly.

I still like F3 better though.

 

[Durxom]

You people are making me want to try and pop the discount Fallout Collection I got back into my CD drive X_X ....But from what I can tell, for the comments at least..I should try out Fallout 2 first?

I feel like I didn't give it enough time...

 

[Gincairn]

I think personally i played them in the wrong order, I started with 3 and then after sinking days into it decided to try the first one.

I just couldn't get on with it at all and didn't really give it a fair crack of the whip, I may try it again at some point because I feel like i've missed out on something, but for the time being I just don't have the time/patience for it.

 

[Hargrimm]

Now there's a question for people. How the hell did FEV get to a vault in DC?

As far as I can remember, the enclave developed it themselves on the oil rig, right?

Ok heres what I know. Warning Spoilers ahead!

Spoiler

It starts before the war. The military develops FEV as a means to protect soldiers against chemical waepons, but it turns out to be a lot more than that.
It gets researched until the war starts. During the war the base gets lost and because of radiation, the FEV mutates, which is why super mutants are sterile, and it leaks outside the base because of the damage the bas suffered from the nuclear bombs. This is the reason Ghouls, Centaurs, Wanamingos and Floaters roam the wasteland.
Harold and his Friend Grey discover the base during an expedition. They get attacked or something and Harold gets away but Grey falls into a vat containing FEV and turns into the Master and Harold obviously turns into a Ghoul.
Now the vault dweller blows up the base with a nuke that is inside at the end of Fallout 1.
You can visit the base in Fallout 2, if you blow your way through the debris, but apart from a few super mutants and dead Ecnlave soldiers, there is nothingto find.

While it is technically possible to get some FEV to DC I guess, there are still some problems.

1st: The Enclave is finished. As I said before, their main base got blown up, along with most of their research and resources and only the about a dozen people from Navarro remain.

2nd: Fallout 3 canon says, that the government gave the FEV to Vault Tec and study it in a vault in DC. But in the previous games it is established, that the only place where the FEV was, was in mariposa. It was a top secret project even the majority of the government and military knew nothing about. The vaults were used by the government for some social studies and they cooperated with Vault Tec, but they didn't give them any insight in their military research.

I have to do some research again, because I don't think I got everything 100% correct.
go here for additional info: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Wiki

It's getting late and I have to get up early tomorrow so I can't answer any further questions until tomorrow.

 

[Dr.Susse]

The Fallout games are a great example of 'New series direction'.

 

[HerrBobo]

Snip

I hear what your saying. Rmember though F3 came 11 years after F1. So much has changed in the indrusty in that time that it was never really gonna be the same game, nor would have been wise to try and mimic the first too games.

 

[Misterian]

Now, I thought Fallout 3 was the best game I ever got for the Xbox 360, the expansions made it better. Fallout 3 gave an immersive and fantastic experiance of being in a post-apocoplytic world.

I haven't played the first 2, but the game got me interested in getting those 2 first chance given, my computer's not current-gen material, but the fact I can install Oregan Trail with it makes me a little bit confident I can play those games on my computer.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Now there's a question for people. How the hell did FEV get to a vault in DC?

As far as I can remember, the enclave developed it themselves on the oil rig, right?

Ok heres what I know. Warning Spoilers ahead!

Spoiler

It starts before the war. The military develops FEV as a means to protect soldiers against chemical waepons, but it turns out to be a lot more than that.
It gets researched until the war starts. During the war the base gets lost and because of radiation, the FEV mutates, which is why super mutants are sterile, and it leaks outside the base because of the damage the bas suffered from the nuclear bombs. This is the reason Ghouls, Centaurs, Wanamingos and Floaters roam the wasteland.
Harold and his Friend Grey discover the base during an expedition. They get attacked or something and Harold gets away but Grey falls into a vat containing FEV and turns into the Master and Harold obviously turns into a Ghoul.
Now the vault dweller blows up the base with a nuke that is inside at the end of Fallout 1.
You can visit the base in Fallout 2, if you blow your way through the debris, but apart from a few super mutants and dead Ecnlave soldiers, there is nothingto find.

While it is technically possible to get some FEV to DC I guess, there are still some problems.

1st: The Enclave is finished. As I said before, their main base got blown up, along with most of their research and resources and only the about a dozen people from Navarro remain.

2nd: Fallout 3 canon says, that the government gave the FEV to Vault Tec and study it in a vault in DC. But in the previous games it is established, that the only place where the FEV was, was in mariposa. It was a top secret project even the majority of the government and military knew nothing about. The vaults were used by the government for some social studies and they cooperated with Vault Tec, but they didn't give them any insight in their military research.

I have to do some research again, because I don't think I got everything 100% correct.
go here for additional info: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Wiki

It's getting late and I have to get up early tomorrow so I can't answer any further questions until tomorrow.

Very thorough!

It's a bit of a mindfuck alright.

And that base in Fallout 2 had the toughest damn fight in the whole game against that mutie with all the pets!

 

[MiracleOfSound]

You people are making me want to try and pop the discount Fallout Collection I got back into my CD drive X_X ....But from what I can tell, for the comments at least..I should try out Fallout 2 first?

I feel like I didn't give it enough time...

I certainly found Fallout 2 more fun than 1.

The dialogue was funnier, it was much bigger and longer, and due to the vast amount of quests available it was a tad more forgiving and non-linear than the rather rigid structure of Fallout 1.

 

[Stabby Joe]

I love Fallout 3 BUT I will acknowledge that it's a very different experience to 1 and 2 since the originals emphasize the bleakness and scavenger aspect more (hard games to) but I really felt the in 3 this was a world my character was living in.

BTW are some of the huge Fallot 3 haters from No Mutants Allowed?

 

[MrGFunk]

F3's massive open world and enemy level scaling replace this with a more relaxed play-style, and far fewer deaths due to walking into the wrong area at too low a level.

I hope Bethesda improve the pacing and challenge for New Vegas. I found the early stages of F3 tense and needed caution at any skill level but soon all battles could be won with little concern.

 

[SomeBritishDude]

Agreed 100%.

I enjoyed Fallout 3 immensely. But it's pretty clear to me after playing Fallout 1 & 2 that FO3 could very well have been called "Generic Post Apocalyptic Wasteland: The Game" and been just as good without taking an unapologetic dump all over the originals game style, story and atmosphere.

I mean what did Fallout 3 ultimately take away from the original property? Every story element they took was either forced, unnecessary or morphed to such a point that it didn't have anything to do with the source aside from name. Hell, it probably would have been better without the lore restrictions hanging over Bethesda's head, one's they didn't pay much mind to anyway.

They could have simply said "made as a tribute to Fallout" or something along those lines and not had to piss off a lot of old schoolers while still keeping a little of the 1950s vibe (the only thing that I would have missed if the game had not been Fallout)

I personally preferred Fallout 3 (I just like the game mechanics better) but I still feel Bethesda bought a property that was only nudging at the game they had in mind.

 

[Therumancer]

My thoughts have long been that Fallout 3 is a great game, but not a *FALLOUT* game. Bethesda would have done better to create their own post-apocolyptic franchise than try and work with that one.

Without getting into gameplay (yet) one of the big problems is what you point out in regards to the humor. Fallout is defined by a very specific style of over the top humor, as well as a lot of sex and violence. This is a game where you could marry someone (of any gender combo) and then shop your spouse around to sell into slavery. You could also wind up becoming a porn star, and other things. A lot of the jokes in random encounters involved bits from Monty Python, and Dougglas Addams books (the bit with the whale and the nearby flower pot are from Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy). While internally consistant, the game revolved around a specific mix of grittiness, black humor, and outright satire. Bethesda simply pulls too many punches to do things "right" nowadays. This is a company that was begging the FCC for mercy over fan-made nudity mods for Oblivion.

When it comes to the gameplay, I guess it all depends on what you like. If your not an RPG fan I can see where Fallout 3 seems a lot better. It is after all a lot shallower and lets you twitch through a lot of problems. The compromise to RPG elements (VATS) seems rather tacked on to be honest though overall I guess the combination works.

In general it's like another discussion I was having comparing Mass Effect 1 and 2. A lot of people do not GET the whole RPG thing. That's fine, there are differant kinds of games for differant kinds of people. However I believe that people should leave RPGs and RPG series alone and keep them what they are since there is a healthy enough audience for them. If people want to play action games there are plenty of games that will let you twitch your way through things, with nary a stat in sight.

Long term character development, a degree of randomness, and having to carefully plan to face encounters especially early on are some of the trademarks of an RPG that keep RPG players going. It's not surprising that to an action game player the first two Fallout games seem like "epic fail" because they represented the antithesis of that kind of play. Truthfully though it would be nice if people would quit trying to hybridize and go back to making RPGs as RPGs and cater them to RPG gamers.

 

[TheLefty]

I played and loved Fallout 3 and so I went out to buy the first the (1, 2 and tactics all on one disc) and even though I knew thew were isometric I was still heavily disappointed. There was nothing to guide you to where you're supposed to go first so you wander around until something found you and swiftly kicked your ass. I just wasn't a fan.

 

[Kuchinawa212]

You sir, hit the nail on the head

*HIFIVE*
I love fallout 3, but you said it perfectly, it's a bad sequel. Not a bad game.

 

[Blatherscythe]

I've played Fallout 1, 2 and 3 so I know what I'm talking about. As for Fallout 1 and 2 being claustophobic all I can say is, what? The game was massive! If your talking about the battles and shootouts that took place inside those not claustrophobic you got a top down view of the action and if you were smart you hid behind tables, walls and boxes. Calling Fallout 1 and 2 claustrophobic is just stupid, Fallout 3 had parts of levels that could be considered claustophobic but only a few parts to favor melee fighter enemies.

Perhaps claustrophobic was a bad choice of words... maybe 'oppressive' would be a better word. What I meant was that in the early games there's the constant fear of the next sudden death or total screw up, making the player eternally uneasy.

Yes, the game was huge but it was all segregated into small, closed in areas, as opposed to the massive expanse that new tech allowed Bethesda to build..

No need to use words like 'stupid' though mate. I don't think that's the issue here.

And yeah, I preferred the easy nature of F3 too because to me it was more fun.

Now I didn't say stupid as in you were stupid, meant more of a stupid choice of words. Also the world has ended, you a lone gun, enemies have tons of guns and there are mutants. The world is hell and Fallout 1, 2 and 3 on the harder difficulties showed this.

 

[Stormz]

I actually just got the trilogy for Fallout (1, 2 and tactics)

I can honestly say I prefer the older ones. Fallout 3 ditched the strategy part of the series and turned it into a shooter. I don't find Fallout 3 to be that hard and dislike the way they catered to casual gamers. I'm not saying casual is bad but it still disappoints me because of how the first 2 games were deeper and more challenging.

I still do like Fallout 3. Just not nearly as much as the old ones.

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

The one i enjoyed the most was surely Fallout 2, it just had all the goofy stuff like in the 1st one, after the main quest there were so many things you could do, it was really more open than FO3, and also it immediatly put you into the Wasteland universe with Mark Morgan's amazing ambient music (personally i love the Vault City hightech style theme).

and also it's the most moded game of the 3. (thinking of MIB88 megamod)