The Fallout Debate

[dthvirus]

Everyone keeps saying "it's just not a Fallout game", what exactly MAKES a "true" Fallout game? Asking since I've only played F3 (but I loved it)

Snappy writing, atmosphere, grim humour, difficulty, and freedom to do whatever you want is my guess. Fallout 3 has all of these, just not to the degree the earlier games had. For me, it only nailed atmosphere completely.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

However, to hear that Fallout fans were upset makes me wonder if they even came into consideration, and if anyone is thought about when they make the Fallout games. New Vegas seems to start you off after being left for dead and starting you off in a village rather than a vault, which from I've heard of the Fallout games, is a large step in a new direction. I for one will be getting New Vegas to rent when it comes out and might buy it if I get a good paycheck one time and find it a price of $30 or less, and I MIGHT even get the DLC this time, too poor for F3 this time.

Fallout 2 actually begins in a village, you don't find vaults until later in the game.

And I reccommend getting the Broken Steel DLC, as it adds a new ending to F3, raises the level cap and lets you play on after the final events.

 

[RobCoxxy]

You can't really complain that Bethesda made a post-nuke DC depressing.

 

[Hargrimm]

What I really liked about the originals was the clever writing, a part which was severely lacking in Fallout 3. I enjoyed 3, but I tended to avoid conversation and just go and explore, which was the best part of the game.

Another thing that irritated me was the recycled story elements from other Fallout games

Spoiler

The plot revolved around water (Fallout 1), finding a GECK(Fallout 2), the villain, eden, was an A.I.(the Calculator from Tactics) and the Enclave wanted to kill all Mutants with the FEV(Fallout 2)

as well as the the changes from the Bos from a xenophobic paramilitary organisation to selfless knights. They made all Supermutants dumb and homocidal and other continuity issues I won't bother to mention here.

I say a lot of bad things about it, but I also really enjoyed it, just not as a Fallout sequel.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I've played Fallout 1, 2 and 3 so I know what I'm talking about. As for Fallout 1 and 2 being claustophobic all I can say is, what? The game was massive! If your talking about the battles and shootouts that took place inside those not claustrophobic you got a top down view of the action and if you were smart you hid behind tables, walls and boxes. Calling Fallout 1 and 2 claustrophobic is just stupid, Fallout 3 had parts of levels that could be considered claustophobic but only a few parts to favor melee fighter enemies.

Perhaps claustrophobic was a bad choice of words... maybe 'oppressive' would be a better word. What I meant was that in the early games there's the constant fear of the next sudden death or total screw up, making the player eternally uneasy.

Yes, the game was huge but it was all segregated into small, closed in areas, as opposed to the massive expanse that new tech allowed Bethesda to build..

No need to use words like 'stupid' though mate. I don't think that's the issue here.

And yeah, I preferred the easy nature of F3 too because to me it was more fun.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

...huh. That actually sounds pretty cool. I gave up on the games when I got stuck behind that horrid combat system, but maybe I should give them another try.

Just throw the settings onto easy and the combat to wimpy.

It's still bastard hard but you should be able to get through it.

Use a walkthrough if you have to, it's worth it to see the story.

(and yeah I hated the turn based combat too)

 

[Rawker]

the main story, in review, was indeed bland. But the sub stories and well written quests, and the scaling up to the main story were interesting.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

(

I don't have time to go into more detail at the moment, but there were quite a few other things in the game that I thought didn't make much sense when I was playing, so I might jot them down later. (Presence of super mutants, FEV as a convenient plot device, return of the Enclave, a very black-and-white moral choice system, etc.)

FEV was in Fallout 2 as well. In fact, it was the central reason for the final mission in the game.

 

[Hargrimm]

Use a walkthrough if you have to, it's worth it to see the story.

If you want to use a walkthrough, use this one by Per Jorner.
http://user.tninet.se/~jyg699a/fallout2.html
it's the best Fallout Guide period.

He also made one for Fallout 1
http://user.tninet.se/~jyg699a/fallout.html

 

[jubosu]

I played the two originals and loved them when I was younger but since then and after I put several thousand hours into Oblivion and Morrowind that was what I wanted from a Bethesda game and I loved the new Fallout better than its predecessors

 

[Chicago Ted]

I prefer Fallout 3. I love that game. I have the others, but I honestly just can't get into them no matter how hard I try.

 

[Hargrimm]

FEV was in Fallout 2 as well. In fact, it was the central reason for the final mission in the game.

Yes, but it doesn't make any sense that it was in DC. The only places where you could find FEV where in the mariposa military base and on the oil rig, which got blown up along with the Enclave leaders.
Actually, having the Enclave as a villain doesn't really make sense either, since the only other base they had was Navarro, which was just a refuel station for Vertibirds. If you get the NCR ending in which it becomes a military dictatorship, it is mentioned that the soldiers in Navarro joined the NCR since they had nowhere else to go. This also implies that they wouldn't have the resources to become as big as in Fallout 3 or be an independant organisation for that matter.

EDIT: forgot to mention that the mariposa base also got blown up in Fallout1.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Use a walkthrough if you have to, it's worth it to see the story.

If you want to use a walkthrough, use this one by Per Jorner.
http://user.tninet.se/~jyg699a/fallout2.html
it's the best Fallout Guide period.

He also made one for Fallout 1
http://user.tninet.se/~jyg699a/fallout.html

I found that one really helpful in picking perks and skills. Very good walkthrough.

It's amazing how many useless skills and perks the first two games have, it's so easy to accidentally gimp your character.

It also helped me out when I got completely stuck right at the very end of the game (when you have to blow up a certain thing).

 

[MiracleOfSound]

FEV was in Fallout 2 as well. In fact, it was the central reason for the final mission in the game.

Yes, but it doesn't make any sense that it was in DC. The only places where you could find FEV where in the mariposa military base and on the oil rig, which got blown up along with the Enclave leaders.
Actually, having the Enclave as a villain doesn't really make sense either, since the only other base they had was Navarro, which was just a refuel station for Vertibirds. If you get the NCR ending in which it becomes a military dictatorship, it is mentioned that the soldiers in Navarro joined the NCR since they had nowhere else to go. This also implies that they wouldn't have the resources to become as big as in Fallout 3 or be an independant organisation for that matter.

EDIT: forgot to mention that the mariposa base also got blown up in Fallout1.

Now there's a question for people. How the hell did FEV get to a vault in DC?

As far as I can remember, the enclave developed it themselves on the oil rig, right?

EDII: Wait, that couldn't be right... there was FEV in the Vats in F1, wasn't there?

 

[cheese_wizington]

I agree with you whole heartedly.

I still like F3 better though.

 

[Durxom]

You people are making me want to try and pop the discount Fallout Collection I got back into my CD drive X_X ....But from what I can tell, for the comments at least..I should try out Fallout 2 first?

I feel like I didn't give it enough time...

 

[Gincairn]

I think personally i played them in the wrong order, I started with 3 and then after sinking days into it decided to try the first one.

I just couldn't get on with it at all and didn't really give it a fair crack of the whip, I may try it again at some point because I feel like i've missed out on something, but for the time being I just don't have the time/patience for it.

 

[Hargrimm]

Now there's a question for people. How the hell did FEV get to a vault in DC?

As far as I can remember, the enclave developed it themselves on the oil rig, right?

Ok heres what I know. Warning Spoilers ahead!

Spoiler

It starts before the war. The military develops FEV as a means to protect soldiers against chemical waepons, but it turns out to be a lot more than that.
It gets researched until the war starts. During the war the base gets lost and because of radiation, the FEV mutates, which is why super mutants are sterile, and it leaks outside the base because of the damage the bas suffered from the nuclear bombs. This is the reason Ghouls, Centaurs, Wanamingos and Floaters roam the wasteland.
Harold and his Friend Grey discover the base during an expedition. They get attacked or something and Harold gets away but Grey falls into a vat containing FEV and turns into the Master and Harold obviously turns into a Ghoul.
Now the vault dweller blows up the base with a nuke that is inside at the end of Fallout 1.
You can visit the base in Fallout 2, if you blow your way through the debris, but apart from a few super mutants and dead Ecnlave soldiers, there is nothingto find.

While it is technically possible to get some FEV to DC I guess, there are still some problems.

1st: The Enclave is finished. As I said before, their main base got blown up, along with most of their research and resources and only the about a dozen people from Navarro remain.

2nd: Fallout 3 canon says, that the government gave the FEV to Vault Tec and study it in a vault in DC. But in the previous games it is established, that the only place where the FEV was, was in mariposa. It was a top secret project even the majority of the government and military knew nothing about. The vaults were used by the government for some social studies and they cooperated with Vault Tec, but they didn't give them any insight in their military research.

I have to do some research again, because I don't think I got everything 100% correct.
go here for additional info: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Wiki

It's getting late and I have to get up early tomorrow so I can't answer any further questions until tomorrow.

 

[Dr.Susse]

The Fallout games are a great example of 'New series direction'.

 

[HerrBobo]

Snip

I hear what your saying. Rmember though F3 came 11 years after F1. So much has changed in the indrusty in that time that it was never really gonna be the same game, nor would have been wise to try and mimic the first too games.