Do you have links from respected scientific sources to back up your claims that the "missing link" is the focus, etc.?Delsana said:
The misinterpretation of evolution
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I guess you don't know how to quote, but I'll respond anyway. This isn't just about evolution, its a group problem. The same people who don't believe in Evolution also don't believe in global climate change, thats a problem. They also believe many untrue things, like Obama is a radical, socialist, facist, muslim, terrorist, who is the reincarnation of the aniticrist. That is not coincidence. The same reason why there are misconceptions about evolution is why there are misconceptions about every important subject.enzilewulf said:
"That's right, around 50% of the population of the United States does not believe in evolution, and that is sad"
Who put you on such a high horse? You know what? Your saying its sad that people don't believe in what you do, and that is sad. Seriously most people don't give a shit about Human evolution so deal with it. Why do people who strongly believe in Evolution have to be such dick heads? Sorry we can't all be like you.
And yes, it is sad. That 50% of America does not believe in something that over 80% of most European countries believe in is sad. That China almost has as many people who believe in evolution is sad. The problem is not that they share my beliefs, its that they are ignorant of all of the information out there.
Lol.Delsana said:
This is what i hate about topics like this. One person you meet devolves into insults and semantics.
And we can prove evolution.
Its as simple as looking at the human races, spread out across the planet. We all have different skin color. Why? Because certain skin colors are more favorable in different environments. Humans werent just made all different colors.
Hell, you can see evolution in a hospital. By looking and babies and their parents. A baby wont be an exact copy of 1 of the parents. But a combination of the two, gaining traits from both parents.
What about all the different viruses and diseases. Did they all just EXIST from the beginning of time? How do we keep getting sick if they never evolve to bypass our immune system?
xD the idea that Evolution NEVER happened/happens is a laugh.
http://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Show-Earth-Evidence-Evolution/dp/B004AYCWY4/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1314495410&sr=1-1Delsana said:
See, the thing is, scientists FOUND "the missing link" decades ago, and they've found many more since. Every time they find one creationists basically say "now there are twice as many missing links as there were before!!!"
I'm not sure I completely understand what you are referencing here. Are you talking about the DNA (or RNA I forget which) contained within Mitochondria that would connect to Eve?Delsana said:
Also is Eve counted as the full blown person or just a representation of our earliest ancestors?
I'm sorry, but this is simply irrational. You're horribly abusing the concept. The concept is that all modern humans share a common female ancestor; as we discovered this (well, geneticists; paleontologists generally don't care) we call her Mitochondrial Eve. However, that's not the same thing as saying that she was the first human, or the only human female--in all probability, she was a random human female that was born well after the species arose, and was part of a tribe of humans, male and female. Population genetics being what it is, her mitochondrial DNA could have then dispursed among all the humans over time.
This does NOT mean that we need to find Mitochondrial Eve to prove evolution. In fact, the only way our study would exist to prove her existence is if evolution were true--and by that I mean the methods themselves would fail, they would produce contradictory results and would be uninterpretable if evolution were wrong. They wouldn't give us a wrong answer, we'd have NO answer!
This also doesn't mean that we'd even recognize this human if we found her. In all probability there was absolutely nothing special about this woman. In her time, she'd have been a random person, indistinguishable as the last shared ancestor of the human species. We may already have found her and NOT EVEN KNOW IT. There'd be NO morphological distinction, particularly not skeletal morphology!
As for every single scientist admitting they don't know who Mitochondrial Eve is, that's because WE DON'T CARE. Evolution was proven well before modern genetics arose (seriously, Francis Crick is still running his mouth, and evolution was accepted by the scientific community as at least of equal validity to any other theory running around at the time prior to Darwin's death). We don't NEED Mitochondrial eve. We have so much other evidence that it takes a very large amount of denial to hold Eve up as The One True Line of Evidence.
Intelligent Design is the belief that something, somehow, created life. That's it. Some versions say it was a short time ago (a few thousand years), some a long time ago; some say it was gods, some aliens. What unites them all is a complete lack of any evidence for their Creator other than biology, and a complete unwillingness to discuss the methods their Creator used.
This is an old symantics debate, and more or less without value in these discussions. The point is that evolution has been demonstrated so well that there's no reasonable justification for disagreeing with the theory--upon serious, thorough review of the evidence, the only rational conclusion is that organisms have evolved. Upon cursory review of any individual LINE of evidence (geology, paleontology, biology, genetics, etc) the only rational conclusion is that evolution occurred. Whether you call this a belief or not is irrelevant--the important part is that it's verifiable.
Are they? If I were you, I'd make sure before making such statements as to avoid coming across as ignorant as those I'm condemning. Just saying.Flac00 said:
You just used so many inaccuracies...kouriichi said:
You forget that those are merely adaptations based on our current genetic instruction manual and capability of our body (DNA).
They are not evolutions they are the result of combinations and randomizations based on the male and female input of DNA through sperm and seed that result in that and those are based on the adaptations and modifications that the body gave as protection or advantage throughout their entire family lines.
Skin darkens based on light absorbance and focus... over time it becomes darker, they move, maintain the same skin, but it becomes lighter for some and slowly begins to change back to those that are not in the sunlight that often.
The same for numerous situations... appearance is based on randomization based on those two input factors.
You are arguing semantics based on something you have mis-defined.
The main argument is nothing supports him creating anything. It's the same as saying the reason why stars die is because magical orges from mars eat them as snacks (and btw you can't see them with the human eye). Its not disprovable (I hope) but it doesn't mean you should believe in it.MysticToast said:
The main reasons I think this is true is because a) East Asia have a different concept of religion than us and aren't really "devout", and b) the Catholic church supports "evolutionary creationism", which says God made evolution happen.Flac00 said:I guess you don't know how to quote, but I'll respond anyway. This isn't just about evolution, its a group problem. The same people who don't believe in Evolution also don't believe in global climate change, thats a problem. They also believe many untrue things, like Obama is a radical, socialist, facist, muslim, terrorist, who is the reincarnation of the aniticrist. That is not coincidence. The same reason why there are misconceptions about evolution is why there are misconceptions about every important subject.enzilewulf said:
"That's right, around 50% of the population of the United States does not believe in evolution, and that is sad"
Who put you on such a high horse? You know what? Your saying its sad that people don't believe in what you do, and that is sad. Seriously most people don't give a shit about Human evolution so deal with it. Why do people who strongly believe in Evolution have to be such dick heads? Sorry we can't all be like you.
And yes, it is sad. That 50% of America does not believe in something that over 80% of most European countries believe in is sad. That China almost has as many people who believe in evolution is sad. The problem is not that they share my beliefs, its that they are ignorant of all of the information out there.
No. That's ridiculous, and no one who makes that argument actually believes it themselves if they give it a moment of thought.Fbuh said:
Should the flat earth 'theory' be taught next to the heliocentric model? No, it shouldn't. Creationism can't be taught next to evolution for the same reason; education is to teach children facts, not to introduce a flurry of every moron's thoughts on what might be and letting them decide what they think is true.
Honestly, creationism (intelligent design is just creationism rebranded) is even less qualified to be taught in a science class than geocentrism. At least the geocentric model makes testable predictions, and as such -can- be science. Creationism makes no testable, falsifiable predictions, and therefore cannot be science by definition.
I've noticed a lot of people think that humanity will grow wings, or get some super power as a part of evolution.
That just isn't how it works. I'm going to use human migration as an example.
As we all know, humanity started out in Africa, the ancestors migrated as much as they could for various reasons. Food, competition, the weather.
Fact of the matter is, the ancestors that traveled to places like Europe, evolved whiter skin. Because of the generally gloomy climate in Europe. It's nowhere near as extreme as Africa's. It's also been proven that the European ancestors noses got a lot smaller. This was to protect their brains from the cold air. White people also generally get a lot more body hair, for warmth. While the ancestors that stayed in the heat of Africa, had no need to have their noses altered. Or masses of chest hair. Their brains needed a surplus of cool air. And they couldn't afford to trap more heat in their hair.
Evolution is not random, it's carefully chosen over thousands of years. This also proves a point, that humans evolve differently to one another.
For example, a white Scandinavian is clearly visibly different to a black aborigine. The white man has evolved to be perfectly adapted (Or as adapted as we've gotten in the small space of time we've been in Europe) to his surroundings. While the black man is perfectly evolved to his surroundings. The aborigine can go longer without water, food. And can bare the intense heat for much, much longer than the white man. Fact is, if you switched their positions, they'd be next to useless in the wilderness.
So what I'm saying is, evolution isn't as random as you think. It's based on parameters. If many generations are exposed to gamma radiation, you will evolve a resistance to it. If many generations are exposed to a high altitude, you will evolve a tolerance for it. That's how it works. And Humanity has never evolved at the same time. We are all different.
In millions of years, our physical appearance will change dramatically, we may not even be the same species we are today. We may not even recognize ourselves. Because we are constantly changing into things that can better survive our environment. And because we're changing our environment constantly with new technology, evolution had better hurry up.
That just isn't how it works. I'm going to use human migration as an example.
As we all know, humanity started out in Africa, the ancestors migrated as much as they could for various reasons. Food, competition, the weather.
Fact of the matter is, the ancestors that traveled to places like Europe, evolved whiter skin. Because of the generally gloomy climate in Europe. It's nowhere near as extreme as Africa's. It's also been proven that the European ancestors noses got a lot smaller. This was to protect their brains from the cold air. White people also generally get a lot more body hair, for warmth. While the ancestors that stayed in the heat of Africa, had no need to have their noses altered. Or masses of chest hair. Their brains needed a surplus of cool air. And they couldn't afford to trap more heat in their hair.
Evolution is not random, it's carefully chosen over thousands of years. This also proves a point, that humans evolve differently to one another.
For example, a white Scandinavian is clearly visibly different to a black aborigine. The white man has evolved to be perfectly adapted (Or as adapted as we've gotten in the small space of time we've been in Europe) to his surroundings. While the black man is perfectly evolved to his surroundings. The aborigine can go longer without water, food. And can bare the intense heat for much, much longer than the white man. Fact is, if you switched their positions, they'd be next to useless in the wilderness.
So what I'm saying is, evolution isn't as random as you think. It's based on parameters. If many generations are exposed to gamma radiation, you will evolve a resistance to it. If many generations are exposed to a high altitude, you will evolve a tolerance for it. That's how it works. And Humanity has never evolved at the same time. We are all different.
In millions of years, our physical appearance will change dramatically, we may not even be the same species we are today. We may not even recognize ourselves. Because we are constantly changing into things that can better survive our environment. And because we're changing our environment constantly with new technology, evolution had better hurry up.
Yes, it's VERY unlikely and random. But that doesn't prove the existence of a god. Hell, for that matter, the odds are hugely against it if you pick one planet in particular for life to evolve on, but when you consider how many trillions upon trillions of planets there are, statistically, it had to happen SOMEWHERE. It just happened to be here and make us.kouriichi said:
I don't get that. How is Religious Education not PC?weker said:
Source, please?Delsana said:
Thinking that is fine, I have no objections to that. This is mostly because evolution starts after the creation of life. Therefore Creationism has free reign over that area. However, that still doesn't make Creationism a science and thats the big point.kouriichi said:
Sorry about that. I didn't notice the previous reply.Cpu46 said:
We appear to be agreed that ID has approximately zero scientific validity. That's the important thing
Your comment illustrates everything that is the cause of the escalation of ignorance in this world. "Why should they not be made to learn?" Why shouldn't they? Because when people are not educated they cling to superstition. Why is this bad? Because all of our technology is the culmination of thousands of years of science, forged in the crucible of progress and forethought. When people are allowed to be ignorant, they cause others harm. In lacking a basic education, an individual reduces the potential for that individual to contribute to humanity's understanding of the world around them. We have seen what happens when nations choose ignorance over enlightenment. From the European Dark Ages, to the witch hunts of Salem, to the American Slave Trade, to civil rights, women's rights, and human rights, religious wars, nationalism, ethnic cleansing; all of these are to be blamed on ignorance.Dann661 said:
I don't care about a person's religion, personal belief, or any of that. When you are uneducated you are a detriment to human progress. Evolution is not controversial. That boat sailed 40 years ago. It is only the obstinate and ignorant who cling to the idea that they have the right to drag down the rest of humanity. In this day and age of science, the "controversy" button is used to try to undermine advancement by those who would willingly keep humanity ignorant and backward. If humanity is to ever progress, this must end.
Oh and no offense, but "intelligent design" is complete crap. ID is nothing but creationism gussied up to look pretty. Not only have ID proponents be laughed out of academia but out of the courts as well.