The R Word

[Azuaron]

Steve Hughes talks about people overreacting to words [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tn2EhGK5ok]

I realize that people associate ideas with words, I just disagree that some words are not ok to use in trash talking.

As for what you and I have heard, when I have played Halo or COD and somebody killed a large number of people without dieing themselves, I have heard people say that they "just committed a genocide".

Steve Hughes is talking about people being "offended". I haven't seen anyone say you can't say "rape" because someone's going to be "offended".

And, once again, we're having a conversation about "rape" and you're talking about "genocide". They are different words, with different meanings and concepts, and different emotional consequences. If you would like to start up a debate on the relative merits and consequences of "genocide" in trash talk, then I will gladly engage you in a space that is dedicated to that purpose.

But it's still a different word, and its appropriateness must be determined independently from the appropriateness of other words.

It's not about offending, it's about hurting someone, on a very real level. What's more important to you - your use of the word, or not making someone relive trauma? What do you value more - saying "I raped you" on Xbox Live, or not giving someone nightmares?

That's what it comes down to, really. This isn't about someone's delicate sensibilities, this is about the fact that a single word can actually cause someone emotional and physical pain.

I would say that if hearing "I raped you" on Xbox live is too much for a person, then they shouldn't be on there to begin with because I can't imagine how a person would deal with killing virtual people in a game like COD or Halo.

EDIT:wow, its very nice to "meet" you! I didn't know that you guys actually read the forums.

Way to be inclusive.

 

[Jedoro]

That's a very interesting article, thank you for being able to share that, even if anonymously. It takes brave people like you to share your experiences so that the rest of us can truly understand.

That being said, I wish I could understand better. You mentioned that someone using the word was as if they'd reminded you of your father leaving at a young age, and mine did. As far as I can tell, my brother and maybe my sister haven't really coped with it as well as I have, even though I seem to have taken it the hardest when it happened. I don't self-medicate with anything, nor do I have a problem with people mentioning any kind of father abandonment issues. Hell, people are surprised at how much I'm willing to talk about it and the effects it did have on me.

I do not say any of that to detract from the gravity of your story or your point, I only say it to make this point: to varying degrees, most of us won't truly understand what you've been and continue to go through, but I applaud you for trying.

 

[itsthesheppy]

This is not to say that using the word 'genocide' or other synonyms are necessairy a great deal better, but you're a lot less likely to trigger somebody within earshot, and contribute to a culture that supports that type of language and those detrimental opinions about the severity of the crime.

So I shouldn't say rape because I might offend somebody [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tn2EhGK5ok]? That's it?

What do you mean, that's it? That's everything.

I don't think you and I can have this conversation. I'm not sure if I have the time or ability to explain empathy to you. I mean if you read the article, in its entirety, and you are still scratching your head on why using the word 'rape' trivially might be bad, then I'm afraid I lack the power you need to get the idea through to you.

I mean it's a three-page article where a man bares his soul, explains in excruciating detail about why it's hurtful, why that word holds a great deal of power, and why people should be careful about it. And you're saying 'what, so I don't offend people'? YES. Yes, so you don't offend people. And if you don't get why that's bad, I'm certainly not going to be able to fill in gaps left unfilled by your parents when you should have been taught why causing strangers unnecessary pain is a bad thing.

If you say something, and someone else gets offended, that's your fault. End of story. If you don't get offended by stuff, good for you. No, really, good. You probably go through life relatively more stress-free than others. Write a book about your triumph. But if you say something and hurt someone, however unintentionally, about anything, for any reason you owe that person an apology. Everyone does.

So to answer your question, yes. Those words are bad. Maybe they shouldn't be said. If I use the word 'genocide' trivially and, by chance, there is a Rwandan Genocide survivor in my midst who gets offended, then I owe them a heartfelt apology and I will be careful in the future, because that's what being a good person is. Being mindful of the thoughts and feelings of others.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

A very well-written article about an important subject. But the issue of unintentionally hurting people through words comes up in all kinds of circumstances -- whenever I've lost a relative, suddenly all people seem to be talking about is death; they aren't aware of what they're doing, but inside I'm being torn to pieces remembering the loss. Same with the word "gay" -- I always flinch when people use it to describe something stupid.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I think you misquoted me :3 I didn't say that, not sure who did though.

 

[Azuaron]

snip

I think you misquoted me :3 I didn't say that, not sure who did though.

I was going to reply to one of your posts, then decided not to, and replied to someone else's, and made a mistake when I cut out your post...

Anyway, sorry, it's fixed now.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Congratulations on a very necessary article. May your courage in writing it bear the fruit of a better world.

But...

This article is simply... stunning, I should say. In that reading it, I had to sit back and just be in awe that someone could survive and cope with something so horrible. It's just a shame that I feel like a lot of people will read it, but feel like "well, when *I* use the word, I'm not being hurtful" and just not get what this brave guy is saying.

My thoughts exactly. Down here in the echo chambers of the internet people are very used to making complex doublethink acrobatics so they never have to go through the trouble of changing their minds. I can only hope at least some of those people allow your earnest article to pierce their armor of bullshit.

Just the other day I saw someone complain that Sarkeesian kept signaling her blog posts as 'trigger warnings'. It wasn't some random internet dipshit, it was on the Rock Paper Shotgun comments where people were not shouting that stupid feminists should make them sandwiches but citing feminist theory and complaining about second wave feminism. And yet, someone thought that trigger warnings were just a random attention grab for feminists, no different from the warnings at the beginning of No Russian saying the level was just TOO INTENSE. It's just difficult to convey the seriousness of such a situation.

I will admit, when I first saw [trigger warnings] show up in articles I raised an eyebrow and thought, really? That lasted all of about two second, which was the amount of time it took me to reflect on what it might be like someone who, living with trauma, suddenly stumbles across something that brings them BACK to that trauma, against their will.

It's like reading a poorly-written movie review that spoils the ending without warning you of such. That feeling of 'oh CRAP why did I read that? Now it's in my brain forever, dammit!'

Except on the magnitude of a million billion times worse, and it lasts forever.

And so few seem able to put themselves there. In the mindset of having to be careful because statistically speaking, they've been in the presence of many, many rape survivors and never known it.

 

[Farther than stars]

I don't know what it's like to go through something like that, so I don't think my sympathies could be worth a whole lot to you, but I do know that we all have our own traumas and issues, including myself. It could be that there are traumas out there which impair you for life. And not having been a victim of rape myself I don't know if that's one of them. But I choose to believe that anything can be overcome and anything can make you stronger. Otherwise we would just let things chip away at us until they wear us down to death. That would mean that we don't have any power, can't ever achieve anything and that's something that my optimistic attitude won't allow. You just can't let it get to you, which is something I feel compelled to say, even though I know you've probably heard it a thousand times before.
Anyway, I also wanted to say that I like your style, Mister Anonymous, and that it would be a waste of talent if you didn't already do some professional writing (although I sincerely hope you do so without a lot less nausea), at least you appear to have the drinking habits of a true writer.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

It's not about offending, it's about hurting someone, on a very real level. What's more important to you - your use of the word, or not making someone relive trauma? What do you value more - saying "I raped you" on Xbox Live, or not giving someone nightmares?

That's what it comes down to, really. This isn't about someone's delicate sensibilities, this is about the fact that a single word can actually cause someone emotional and physical pain.

I would say that if hearing "I raped you" on Xbox live is too much for a person, then they shouldn't be on there to begin with because I can't imagine how a person would deal with killing virtual people in a game like COD or Halo.

EDIT:wow, its very nice to "meet" you! I didn't know that you guys actually read the forums.

Dude, has anything horrible ever happened to you? Like, so bad you can't sleep for days? If not then... I really have no way to get this across, but if SO, imagine someone kept rubbing this in your face whenever you try and play a videogame. Let's say you load up Halo and suddenly everyone shouts "Hey, remember when that bully beat you up and left you crying in a ditch" or "Your dog got runover, SPLAT, LOL his stupid legs twitching and confused eyes" or whatever horrible thing happened to you. If it never happened to you then there'd be no emotional reaction but if it did, hell, if it happened a few hours earlier, it'd likely really hurt.

Now imagine that the pain never really goes away, NOW imagine some guy you don't know is arguing he should have the right to bring up all that pain whenever he feels like it and it's your fault for being there.

Of course this hinges on there being some equivalent here :-/ if there isn't then I imagine this is going to fall on deaf ears. Unless we can get talking about white people bringing up lynchings to describe them ganging up on your character, that one always makes ME uncomfortable.

 

[itsthesheppy]

I would say that if hearing "I raped you" on Xbox live is too much for a person, then they shouldn't be on there

As an aside, this is a good example of the opposite kind of opinion we gamers ought to have. and yes, that is a 100% subjective statement.

There shouldn't be places where rape survivors 'shouldn't' go in our society. If those places exist, it should be up to all of us to eliminate them and turn them into places where they feel included. Trauma survivors have every right the rest of us do to play the games they want and it is not our place to tell them otherwise.

It is our place, however, to foster an environment that isn't threatening or hurtful to people. And when we see people making that environment hurtful, it's our place to shut them down and make it clear it won't be tolerated. It may not seem like much when it's just you versus an entire room of screaming CoD jerkfaces, but little by little we can make this a community that is intolerant of hurtful speech.

 

[Zydrate]

Finally. Thank you!
The part that resonated with me is that "Rape is not a scar, it's a limp".
The whole fallacy that it "makes you stronger" is an argument I'm just so tired of hearing.

 

[Mr.Lucifer]

Its not just about not offending, its also bout not looking like a prick. Some people get offended to easily, but there are true limits.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Yeah, this is a beautifully written piece. Now, on a far less serious note and speaking from the callous uninformed perspective of a snarky internet commenter... let words have power. You know why I don't say certain words? It's because I want them to have meaning.

It's like when I get into a historical discussion from time to time with a close friend or family member and war atrocities come up. "Oh have you heard of the 'Rape of Nanking?'" And I always have to explain, "No, they didn't just really mess up Nanking. The Japanese literally raped tens of thousands of people." It's a horrifying bit of history that gets swept under the rug. Like the Holocaust, it's a difficult concept to wrap your head around when you first read about it. Then the nausea comes.

My point is that even adults who are not gamers throw "rape" around in general conversation like it's nothing. Hell, my mom says it. And it's not okay, not because it could hurt someone's feelings, but because it loses it's weight and gravity.

I am exceedingly grateful and happy that I cannot grasp what it's like to have that happen to me and yes, I can see that it still hurts. But if you're trying to appeal to the sensibilities of the people who still talk that way, you're not going to do it with a well reasoned thought provoking subject like this one. Basically, people who throw epithets and "rape" around like it's nothing sound like 13 year old idiots... and most of the time they are.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Like everyone else, I find myself wanting to support the OP. Props for finding the courage to talk about what clearly is an issue that's very raw for you, Anonymous.

On the R-word's subject, I'd mention that there's a ton of less offensive synonyms gamers can use while trash-talking. Whatever happened to Unreal Tournament's "Dominated", which TF2 took to using? More to the point, do you honestly have to rub your victory in Person X's face by going "Oshit, I totally wrecked your thing, man!"

Why not "Damn, I'm on a roll tonight!" or, even better, why not nothing at all? Why not acknowledge the failing player for at least making an effort?

Oh, right. That's too highbrow and noble to expect of the CoD crowd, isn't it?

Yes, I'm being sarcastic, but there's still something about the Xbox Live population that makes it insufferably potty-mouthed, with the PS3 goons not falling that much farther behind. More often than not, the most level-headed team talk I've had the pleasure of hearing and enjoying was on PC releases.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Dude, has anything horrible ever happened to you? Like, so bad you can't sleep for days? If not then... I really have no way to get this across, but if SO, imagine someone kept rubbing this in your face whenever you try and play a videogame.

Dude, don't play video games if you don't want to hear it, or don't listen to what people have to say on Xbox live.

Let's say you load up Halo and suddenly everyone shouts "Hey, remember when that bully beat you up and left you crying in a ditch" or "Your dog got runover, SPLAT, LOL his stupid legs twitching and confused eyes" or whatever horrible thing happened to you. If it never happened to you then there'd be no emotional reaction but if it did, hell, if it happened a few hours earlier, it'd likely really hurt.

Your not addressing why saying you "murdered" someone when you race and beat somebody Midnight Club/Project Gotham racing is ok, but saying that you "raped" someone when playing COD is wrong.

Now imagine that the pain never really goes away, NOW imagine some guy you don't know is arguing he should have the right to bring up all that pain whenever he feels like it and it's your fault for being there.

What I'm trying to imagine is you answer why it is ok to use the word murder or starving.

 

[Conn1496]

Absoloutely astonishing article right there. Kudos for speaking on behalf of all rape victims worldwide.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

As an aside, this is a good example of the opposite kind of opinion we gamers ought to have. and yes, that is a 100% subjective statement.

Glad you admitted that it was a subjective statement.

There shouldn't be places where rape survivors 'shouldn't' go in our society. If those places exist, it should be up to all of us to eliminate them and turn them into places where they feel included. Trauma survivors have every right the rest of us do to play the games they want and it is not our place to tell them otherwise.

So what should victims of gang violence/terrorism/genocide/famine do about the kinds of words that people use online and in real life?

 

[Weresquirrel]

Well, I know it's been said often so far in this thread, and I'm not normally given to replying in such a way that repeats already expressed sentiments, but screw it, this is an author I have to support; This took a load of courage to write for you, and was extremely eye-opening.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Dude, has anything horrible ever happened to you? Like, so bad you can't sleep for days? If not then... I really have no way to get this across, but if SO, imagine someone kept rubbing this in your face whenever you try and play a videogame.

Dude, don't play video games if you don't want to hear it, or don't listen to what people have to say on Xbox live.

Let's say you load up Halo and suddenly everyone shouts "Hey, remember when that bully beat you up and left you crying in a ditch" or "Your dog got runover, SPLAT, LOL his stupid legs twitching and confused eyes" or whatever horrible thing happened to you. If it never happened to you then there'd be no emotional reaction but if it did, hell, if it happened a few hours earlier, it'd likely really hurt.

Your not addressing why saying you "murdered" someone when you race and beat somebody Midnight Club/Project Gotham racing is ok, but saying that you "raped" someone when playing COD is wrong.

Now imagine that the pain never really goes away, NOW imagine some guy you don't know is arguing he should have the right to bring up all that pain whenever he feels like it and it's your fault for being there.

What I'm trying to imagine is you answer why it is ok to use the word murder or starving.

Are you honestly comparing those two things? They're horrible words and while I wouldn't say use them, your argument lacks for two things

1)I've never heard someone describe beating someone at a race as murdering them.

2)I don't know many murder victims who play X-Box live. If someone on there WAS a murder victim I'd either call an exorcist or ask how they survived and probably not refer to my victory as killing them.

Your ignoring the very point of the reply, imagine something PERSONAL being thrown in your face every time not because you bring it up but because some guy or girl you're never going to meet just wants to use the word and doesn't give two shits. If you want to compare it to something, Rape doesn't compare to saying you murdered someone or you starvationed them, it would compare to saying to a random woman 'Hey, it's raining like a miscarriage out here. Oh, you had one? Well f*ck you, I want to use the word'. Though even that pales in comparison to the emotions Rape brings up.

Generally, we all think it's not OK to say horrible things to people. We think it's ESPECIALLY not OK to say horrible things to people that belittle their personal trauma and then say we have a right to say it more than they have a right to not be tormented by it.

 

[Farther than stars]

Rape is different from murder.

Rape is different from killing.

Rape is different from racism (which, by the by, is also never funny).

Rape is different from injury and misfortune.

If you still don't understand what I'm saying, Jim Sterling has spelled it out for you [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5972-Rape-vs-Murder].

Generally speaking, most of these are not humorous in most situations.

But rape is never funny.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, I agree that rape is not funny, but I don't see it being worse than murder or racism. Explain to me why those can be funny but not rape.

P.S. Using Jim Sterling as a supporter of your argument can swing both ways. Yes, it can help strengthen your point with his fans, but personally my bowls recoil in anguish at the mention of a man who is doing such damage to the image of the video game industry.

I would say that if hearing "I raped you" on Xbox live is too much for a person, then they shouldn't be on there to begin with because I can't imagine how a person would deal with killing virtual people in a game like COD or Halo.

You can't imagine it, huh? Well, maybe you should consider yourself lucky.