ValiDate, a Dating Sim

BrawlMan

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Uh oh...not sure about that, they may not be out entirely just yet though...
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Friedberg_and_Aaron_Seltzer


Star wars parody yet to come! 😔
Talk about striking whilst the iron is rusted into insignificance
That news more or less proves my point. Too late make most of the movies, and no ones would bother to see them, because they can go on YouTube and watch skits/parodies for free without wasting 95 minutes of their lives.
 
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09philj

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To represent the experiences of those less often portrayed in particular artform is a noble goal, and 90% of everything is, of course, crap. Material intended for consumption by a particular niche group is likely to appear unusual to those outside it. Low production values, while obvious to those uninterested in the work, may be overlooked by those who are sucked into the story. Looking back, Katawa Shoujo's a lot more rough round the edges than I remember it being when I first played it at 15, but the slightly wonky art and cut corners didn't register because what I liked about it blotted it out. It's very easy to sneer at jank, but I'm fairly certain if you're reading this there's something you like even though it's rather badly made. When you're far enough outside something's target audience, trying to judge it becomes pointless.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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To represent the experiences of those less often portrayed in particular artform is a noble goal, and 90% of everything is, of course, crap. Material intended for consumption by a particular niche group is likely to appear unusual to those outside it. Low production values, while obvious to those uninterested in the work, may be overlooked by those who are sucked into the story. Looking back, Katawa Shoujo's a lot more rough round the edges than I remember it being when I first played it at 15, but the slightly wonky art and cut corners didn't register because what I liked about it blotted it out. It's very easy to sneer at jank, but I'm fairly certain if you're reading this there's something you like even though it's rather badly made. When you're far enough outside something's target audience, trying to judge it becomes pointless.
There's a difference though. Katawa Shoujo was, as I said before, made with no budget and with no expectations of a return on investment, that's a passion project, and it was made 11 years ago when visual novels were rare in America and even more niche in general than they are today. This was made with a kickstarter and a patreon account and originally intended to get more money through merch with a huge portion of the budget dedicated to that and after things like HunniPop and Dream Daddy that made this genre come more into the mainstream.

There are different expectations from those two different situations.

To put it another way. On Mythbusters they once experimented with getting cabin fever and Adam took the one thing in his room that he could do anything with, a coat hanger, and turned it into a tiny, incredibly simple, mechanical device. It wasn't an amazing thing he made as far as something I would actually seek out as a means of passing the time, but the fact that he made it out of a coat hanger as a means to stave off boredom was impressive.

Or to put it yet another way, a parent cheers when they see their baby take their first step. Taking a step is nothing to any of us, but for a baby? That's the first step of the rest of their lives, that's huge for them with how weak and defenseless they are.

Context matters.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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No. While I can see Battleborn doing that, I don't recall it being the primary marketing campaign. Also you are wrong about Overwatch, you are talking about the thing with Tracers butt and the real complaint was that it was out of character not that it was sexy, if it was that it was sexy and they reacted to that, then they also would have changed up Widowmaker and they didn't.

If you want to know more about that story then check this out.
No people were mad at things before Tracer's butt pose became a trigger point. Here's Unit Lost covering the stuff.

 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
No people were mad at things before Tracer's butt pose became a trigger point. Here's Unit Lost covering the stuff.
That is a really bad video, its just him complaining about people complaining, no examples or anything. Now maybe there was this huge groundswell of people against the sexyness of the overwatch characters that I somehow missed, but I kinda doubt it. More likely it was people asking why the main two women characters at the time had rather similar body types, which is something 3d movies have an issue with as well and was in the general discussion around the time. Frozen caught attention for this also, where both female leads were pretty much different heads on the same body, MOBA's have had this issue also, I love smite but it is a prime offender in this until recently, with 2 exceptions.

Plus, it might be really exaggerated. Here is a vid from Shaun that goes over a topic that gained similar attention, but was totally exaggerated by the anti-sjw's trying to pretend it was a thing when it wasn't a thing, its a longer vid but he gives examples and shows what both sides are saying and allegedly saying.
 
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Dreiko

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To represent the experiences of those less often portrayed in particular artform is a noble goal, and 90% of everything is, of course, crap. Material intended for consumption by a particular niche group is likely to appear unusual to those outside it. Low production values, while obvious to those uninterested in the work, may be overlooked by those who are sucked into the story. Looking back, Katawa Shoujo's a lot more rough round the edges than I remember it being when I first played it at 15, but the slightly wonky art and cut corners didn't register because what I liked about it blotted it out. It's very easy to sneer at jank, but I'm fairly certain if you're reading this there's something you like even though it's rather badly made. When you're far enough outside something's target audience, trying to judge it becomes pointless.
I find that if the "jank" as you aptly put it doesn't detract from the experience, bemoaning it is an academic, sterile way to think about the game in question. Some things are best enhanced by their flaws.

But I have to push back from your first point a bit. I don't think any game is portraying the experiences of anyone from real life unless you're playing a very boring game or the person in question is a serial killer or psycho or something weird and uncommon that most of the people who claim they feel represented by a game definitely are not.

Also, compared to the things these games DO represent, whether someone is black or gay or anything of the sort pales in comparison. Compared to playing as the goddess of the sun who paints creation and it flourishes into existence through her will, what is it to be gay? It's but a brushstroke, there, she just cut you in half and blotted out your existence altogether while yawning.

I think an over-reliance on realism and an ignorant perspective that fails to see what goes on in the context of games is serving to limit our perceptions of what we are really depicting in games, just how beyond any real person most of it is, and that the value to be found therein is directly linked to that separation from the ordinary, to that exact lack of representation people bemoan.

I don't wanna play as a represenation of myself, I wanna be a fucking dragon that flies in space and has giant diamonds for wings dude.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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...a huge chunk of VNs are some variation of "kids go to high school", which is probably the most mundane setting you can have. An even huger chunk do not have a defined protagonist: you literally play as you.

People are interesting, even if they aren't magical superspies who belong to an ancient order of witches.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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That is a really bad video, its just him complaining about people complaining, no examples or anything. Now maybe there was this huge groundswell of people against the sexyness of the overwatch characters that I somehow missed, but I kinda doubt it. More likely it was people asking why the main two women characters at the time had rather similar body types, which is something 3d movies have an issue with as well and was in the general discussion around the time. Frozen caught attention for this also, where both female leads were pretty much different heads on the same body, MOBA's have had this issue also, I love smite but it is a prime offender in this until recently, with 2 exceptions.

Plus, it might be really exaggerated. Here is a vid from Shaun that goes over a topic that gained similar attention, but was totally exaggerated by the anti-sjw's trying to pretend it was a thing when it wasn't a thing, its a longer vid but he gives examples and shows what both sides are saying and allegedly saying.
Coughs






Now admittedly that was the first Doom not Doom Eternal.

So here's some upset by the Mortally Challenged Jokes


https://twitter.com/DorkerTaki/status/1281376047112617985?s=20

https://twitter.com/JitteryThing/status/1280039380791332865?s=20

https://twitter.com/ryandroyd/status/1279941289543254018?s=20

https://twitter.com/Lorenerd11/status/1267908228341530624?s=20

In before "Oh but it's just a few people on twitter"

https://twitter.com/GumdropCannon/status/1252572737434013696?s=20

https://twitter.com/nsatragno/status/1244415671741616128?s=20

https://twitter.com/histmatt/status/1243285538154483713?s=20

https://twitter.com/SleepySalandit/status/1242979679872712706?s=20
 

Dreiko

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...a huge chunk of VNs are some variation of "kids go to high school", which is probably the most mundane setting you can have. An even huger chunk do not have a defined protagonist: you literally play as you.

People are interesting, even if they aren't magical superspies who belong to an ancient order of witches.
What sort of VNs have you played that don't have a defined protagonist? In most of them the protagonist is the MOST defined since you get to see his inner monologue which is multiple dozens of times more extensive than what you see of the supporting cast.

You can have someone be a self-insert type of character that gives you the power to make choices but that doesn't mean they're undefined.

As for the highschool thing, that's just a genre of VN, the school life sim is kinda to VNs what slice of life is to anime shows. It's reductive to say all anime is slice of life just because a lot of popular shows are slice of life, same thing with VNs.
 

Thaluikhain

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Also, compared to the things these games DO represent, whether someone is black or gay or anything of the sort pales in comparison. Compared to playing as the goddess of the sun who paints creation and it flourishes into existence through her will, what is it to be gay? It's but a brushstroke, there, she just cut you in half and blotted out your existence altogether while yawning.
Dunno. Now, I agree that it should be unimportant, but people complain about not being able to relate to their fictional vampire magicians or their werewolf warriors or whatever if they aren't white guys. So, it's a thing.
 

Dreiko

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Dunno. Now, I agree that it should be unimportant, but people complain about not being able to relate to their fictional vampire magicians or their werewolf warriors or whatever if they aren't white guys. So, it's a thing.
I don't see many games touting the inclusion of white guys as a means of promoting their game's capacity for representation. It's always when someone's black or gay or something like that where you have people both demanding it and acting like it's a big deal to deliver it.

Either way it doesn't matter in the end though. It's all whataboutism, if I want to be a dragon flying through space clearly that means that I don't care about being represented by a white guy char.
 

Specter Von Baren

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Dunno. Now, I agree that it should be unimportant, but people complain about not being able to relate to their fictional vampire magicians or their werewolf warriors or whatever if they aren't white guys. So, it's a thing.
??????????? I think you somehow confused "white guy" with black people or women or transexuals or homosexual.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Coughs

Now admittedly that was the first Doom not Doom Eternal.

So here's some upset by the Mortally Challenged Jokes

In before "Oh but it's just a few people on twitter"
The Feminist Frequency tweets are completely off topic and have no bearing on what we are talking about in any regard. Also none of those tweets were from the time when the skeptic dip shits were making the videos about nontraversy, in fact, only one was even from before the game launch. It does sound like now idiots are trying to meme using the 'mortally challenged' line, which was always a stupid line, hell pretty much everything with the hologram was dumb and made no sense and even hurt the plot. Plus, there were only a couple good lines.
 

Dreiko

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The Feminist Frequency tweets are completely off topic and have no bearing on what we are talking about in any regard. Also none of those tweets were from the time when the skeptic dip shits were making the videos about nontraversy, in fact, only one was even from before the game launch. It does sound like now idiots are trying to meme using the 'mortally challenged' line, which was always a stupid line, hell pretty much everything with the hologram was dumb and made no sense and even hurt the plot. Plus, there were only a couple good lines.
The mortally challenged line makes sense if you actually know the plot and don't base your opinion on trailers and other internet users who also base their opinions on trailers and have never finished either game.

Demons in doom are what becomes of the souls of the dead after they've been tortured enough to suck out all the argent juice out of them and make argent energy. The empty husk becomes a demon. So yeah, the demons all are humans who died. Hence, they call them mortally challenged in order to instill in their orwellian society a politically correct climate of accepting demons, despite their beings being ones of pure hatred, as a mechanism of making argent energy more palatable.

Now, I don't think Doom was trying all that much to make a metaphor for illegal immigrant labor in-between sequences of stabbing demons in the throat with their own arm bones, but when you have all those pseudo-intellectual types who try to find meaning in everything just turn up their noses here, I have to take a moment and chuckle.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
The mortally challenged line makes sense if you actually know the plot and don't base your opinion on trailers and other internet users who also base their opinions on trailers and have never finished either game.

Demons in doom are what becomes of the souls of the dead after they've been tortured enough to suck out all the argent juice out of them and make argent energy. The empty husk becomes a demon. So yeah, the demons all are humans who died. Hence, they call them mortally challenged in order to instill in their orwellian society a politically correct climate of accepting demons, despite their beings being ones of pure hatred, as a mechanism of making argent energy more palatable.

Now, I don't think Doom was trying all that much to make a metaphor for illegal immigrant labor in-between sequences of stabbing demons in the throat with their own arm bones, but when you have all those pseudo-intellectual types who try to find meaning in everything just turn up their noses here, I have to take a moment and chuckle.
I know the plot, I've beat both 2016 and Eternal multiple times. It doesn't make sense and is stupid because Haden is the ceo of the UAC and he ends up joining humanities fight in Eternal, to the point where Doom Guy trusts him in his DOOM FORTRESS, even after he put Doomguy in statis again. Yet his company keeps up the demon project after the ardent energy lenses were destroyed in 2016 and the gate to hell was dealt with.

Yes yes, I know what the doom energy in Eternal is, whatever, its still a stupid line that probably hearkens back to an earlier design doc and someone on the team just loved it because they were dumb.

Of course they weren't, its just a dumb throw away line with no bearing on anything for a few other non-jokes.
 

Specter Von Baren

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Can someone explain what's wrong with the "Mortally challenged line"? I haven't played Doom Eternal, is there something I'm missing here? I get what you're saying about its context but not why this joke is being brought up.
 

Buyetyen

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Just saw this for the first time today. I like the character designs at least. They have a lot more personality than the writing. *shudder* Let this be a reminder that, like drawing, coding and design, creative writing is a skill you have to actually commit to learning.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Can someone explain what's wrong with the "Mortally challenged line"? I haven't played Doom Eternal, is there something I'm missing here? I get what you're saying about its context but not why this joke is being brought up.
It's a joke about how soulless corporations will co-opt progressive language to continue being shit. Some people, either not picking up on the joke or reacting to other people not picking up on the joke, found it might be in bad taste.

Morons found those people and decided "the SJWs are complaining about Doom", coming up with hours of YouTube outrage about a handful of tweets with *maybe* a dozen interactions.
So, 8 people on Twitter. Mostly making posts with zero faves or retweets. The biggest one getting a grand total of 25 favs. And mostly saying the joke isn't funny, not being offended by it

Yeah, it's just a few people on Twitter.