Violent women.

[InsipidMadness]

Spoiler

I've been using these forums for a while, but have changed my SN to break away from the people who don't share the same values. Start afresh, if you will.

I'm going to be straight with you guys. I'm not a calm, well-behaved lady. I can be quite fiery, quite aggressive, and you know what? I'm happy with that and who I am.

What I've found is, though, that people are not happy when women show even one ounce of strength or conviction in who they are. Even less so when they're aggressive rather than a pacifist. It's like men, in particular (if we're talking romantically) are looking for a relationship in which they are mothered. I'm not that sort of person, and don't want to be with someone who needs mothering. I've tried it once, it ended in disaster and I deviated so far from who I was, I just wasnt happy and neither was he. The relationship became monotone because I was so stifled by having to portray the 'expected' version of me.

So I come to you. What do YOU think about women with a more violent and hot-headed nature than the norm? Do you prefer women to be subtle? Mother you? Why do you prefer this? I'm supposing a lot of you play video games with particually 'strong' minded (and bodied) women, so when it comes to real life.. why do you want me down on my knees? (Hey, careful, I dont mean in that sense).

I'm not saying that I would go shank someone in the street or be completely irrational. I have a head on my shoulders. But I like violence (as play in a relationship, or as a happy relationship dynamic). I get a rise from it. And I'm fine with who I am.

Is it really so scary to men? I'm not looking for advice here, even though I do despair at the lack of relationship prospects for me. I can handle myself. I want insight into why so many men seem to need and expect passive women.

So what's your two-cents on turning the tables? What about a guy who's passive, timid, caring and subtle? It's a bit of a double standard to expect women to rise up and match the aggressive environment set up by a previously male dominant society, while if a man shows signs of passive-aggressiveness or being softhearted, he's instantly branded a coward and weak.

From my perspective, women with masculine qualities typically get applauded for showing strength and femininity. However, a male with feminine qualities is instantly looked down upon and ostracized.

 

[Grospoliner]

I don't know about most people, but I admire strong women. Not over bearing, not pointlessly cruel, not selfish, but real strength of character. Confidence, competence, capable, self-sufficient, honorable, that's really attractive in my opinion.

 

[Semudara]

The dating scene, like society itself, is plagued by gender stereotypes and the expectations of gender roles. On top of that, you obviously have trouble describing yourself clearly.

I'm sure you can find the right guy for you someday. Goodness knows I would like a partner who wants to spar now and then, and I can't be the only one.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Expectations of the "fairer sex". That's basically it.

Then again, violence is never a good thing. You may be happy with it, but if your partner isn't, then you're just being selfish and childish. That really won't help you win someone over.

I wouldn't want to be with someone who wasn't happy with it. As I said, I'm not the sort to shank someone in the street and I'm certainly not talking about outright abuse. I don't want to abuse anyone, and wouldn't want to be in a relationship where the way I treated someone made them feel bad. I don't want to treat someone badly.

Okay, in terms that people may understand about what I mean when I say violence.. Playfights, for instance, although my nature does go beyond that. I don't mean going absolutely apeshit on a trembling figure in the corner of the kitchen, that's not what I mean at all and find people who act in such a way scum.

If both parties are consentual then by all means theres nothing wrong with you. Thing is that most men dont like being abused at all, especially by women as it puts into context the awfull reality of having to:

A: Hit a girl - most guys find this really hard
B: Accept they are being abused by a woman - Again kinda hard.

Both a bit sexist.

Its fine to want what you want but dont get sad when you say "I like punching my loved ones in the face" and they all back off or act disgusted. Im sure i have some interests that disgust you. And thats fine. Thats taste, and its brilliant we all have our own. I got kinda angry at your seeming uncaringness for wanted to be violent toward a loved one. Im a very passive male who likes being more gentle to my partner, and the idea kinda sickened me. Then i read this. THIS makes it ok. This puts it all into context. You are not a sadist as i first thought. You just have a weird need. Which is cool. Because deep down we all do.

Just please dont accidently hurt someone because they might not understand exactly what you want. Or be offended because people dont like that kinda thing. I dont like the idea at all, but im rather liberal with what goes on between anyone as long as its consensual so im all for you having every right to do and like whatever you want.

Feel proud of who you are. Figure that a LOT of guys dont want what you have, but some will, and they are important, not a lot of people want a really passive guy. But its not a big deal. I hope you find someone who enjoys what you do.

 

[loc978]

A bit late for me to be weighing in on the OP question, I know... but

Spoiler: snip

I've been using these forums for a while, but have changed my SN to break away from the people who don't share the same values. Start afresh, if you will.

I'm going to be straight with you guys. I'm not a calm, well-behaved lady. I can be quite fiery, quite aggressive, and you know what? I'm happy with that and who I am.

What I've found is, though, that people are not happy when women show even one ounce of strength or conviction in who they are. Even less so when they're aggressive rather than a pacifist. It's like men, in particular (if we're talking romantically) are looking for a relationship in which they are mothered. I'm not that sort of person, and don't want to be with someone who needs mothering. I've tried it once, it ended in disaster and I deviated so far from who I was, I just wasnt happy and neither was he. The relationship became monotone because I was so stifled by having to portray the 'expected' version of me.

So I come to you. What do YOU think about women with a more violent and hot-headed nature than the norm? Do you prefer women to be subtle? Mother you? Why do you prefer this? I'm supposing a lot of you play video games with particually 'strong' minded (and bodied) women, so when it comes to real life.. why do you want me down on my knees? (Hey, careful, I dont mean in that sense).

I'm not saying that I would go shank someone in the street or be completely irrational. I have a head on my shoulders. But I like violence (as play in a relationship, or as a happy relationship dynamic). I get a rise from it. And I'm fine with who I am.

Is it really so scary to men? I'm not looking for advice here, even though I do despair at the lack of relationship prospects for me. I can handle myself. I want insight into why so many men seem to need and expect passive women.

As a calm, rational, mostly unemotional person, I find any fiery, aggressive person to be just plain annoying. Male or female is immaterial at that point, because I simply don't want to be around them. Funny thing is, our culture likes to confuse extraversion with strength. Most strongly extraverted, highly aggressive people I've met aren't strong of mind or body... they're just histrionic (not making an accusation, you seem quite rational).

That said... it's all just social conditioning. Our society is having growing pains as old methods of control die by the onslaught of the sciences. Men used to be brainwashed into aggressive behavior, women into passive-aggressive behavior. That's changing. Give it time.

 

[Biosophilogical]

Then again, violence is never a good thing.

Pretty much this. I don't like violent streaks in anyone. I find it unsettling that they can cause harm to another human being without batting an eyelid (and enjoy it!). But that's different to a 'strong', 'confident' or 'proud' woman (or man), because they are people who stick up for their beliefs, rather than violent people, who stick up for anything because they just want to fight.

I like people[footnote]Screw this sexual perspective, I'm talking about how I like people as people[/footnote] who have a strong sense of honour (for lack of a better word). They'll stand up for what they believe in, respect your right to think otherwise, but will do their best to stop you if you try and hurt the things or people they care about.

EDIT: As for just being 'firey'? Not a fan. Passion is better than fire.

 

[General Vagueness]

snip

I actually said violent because I meant violent.

Of course you did, I was saying it might not mean what you think it means, at least to other people.

I was simply refuting people thinking that all it can mean is that I'm a sociopath. If I were a sociopath, I'd admit it. People are so adversed to violence, and jump on the 'Ooohh that's always bad' train so readily.

Yes, and it seemed to me you weren't explaining it very well.

 

[cobra_ky]

I would never abuse someone. I am not an abuser, and wouldnt want to be. I wouldnt want a man to let me abuse them, and would hate to see anyone being abused by anyone else.

Switching roles, I would know the difference between a man abusing me and a man having some good natured, human fun with me. The respect and trust is built in the relationship as a whole, allowing for that closeness of interaction and the quick pace of heart beats that follow.

Two human beings with a connection, both with their own minds and their own strengths. Both accepting, both willing to play, both getting a rise out of violence. Again, good naturedly. But also a man who wont be bothered if, in a disagreement, I grab him and root him to the floor -- mostly because it will end in a kiss. A man who would smile at that sort of interaction, rather than think it means I want to do serious damage to him (and I would not attempt to do serious damage to a man in a 'playfight' such as this). A man who wouldnt assume that this behaviour means I dont respect him. Perhaps a man who would chuckle at it. A man who would fight back (not wanting to seriously damage me either). We'd then tease each other over who won. I really am just talking about interaction, here. The question is "Why assume?", "Why do you not want women who behave like this, when good natured 'conflict' is what most mammals do for enjoyment?".

Root conflict in a relationship, the sort of conflict that could destroy the happiness of the relationship, should be sorted by talking and not by throwing plates. I'm not talking about throwing plates. A disagreement on which milk we should be buying? We'll disagree, I'll get wound up, he may get exasperated. We stand and look at each other. We'll scuffle, I'll get him on the floor and he'll laugh at how my face is crunched up. I may hit him on the arm for that comment, still wound up, and he'll laugh and say how my strike feels like a kitten batting with it's paw. Then he'll remind me the shop is closing soon, and we really must get some milk. We go and get some milk. No one gets hurt, no one is scared, and then we eat some cereal (with the milk I wanted to buy, because I won the scuffle. We'd buy his milk if he won).

Yes, it's a bit more than play fighting. It is aggressive. But it is in no way aimed to abuse. I would never "root someone to the floor" if they were not happy with this sort of interaction, and did not enjoy it with me.

Maybe it's a strange sort of closeness an interaction to want. I'm realising that more now.

This is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for in a woman. Someone who's sure and honest about herself, someone i don't have to worry about hurting, and someone i know isn't ever going to hold back around me. A fair fight, basically.

As tough as it's been for you, i think it's harder for men, because we couldn't even bring it up without being immediately castigated for it. That's a big reason why the culture of abuse makes me so angry, because it makes it so much harder to have the kind of relationship i want.

And yeah, as this thread has wonderfully demonstrated, people have a lot of trouble getting past the idea that violence = abuse = always bad. To me it's much more than that; it's a way of proving your strength; that you can dish it out as well as you can take it. And as long as it's consensual and everyone understands what the boundaries are, there's nothing wrong with that.

Like you said, it's different from what most of the hardcore BDSM community is after. It has nothing to do with dominance and submission. To me the idea of having an equal, the uncertainly of winning or losing, those are lot more exciting to me than just wailing on some poor defenseless schlub. I think this affects my taste in games, too.

As an aside, i have to say i'm pretty impressed by how you've handled yourself in this thread. It takes guts to put yourself out there and let people misconstrue and misjudge you, and i think you've been incredibly patient in explaining yourself. So don't give up yet, there's at least one guy out there who understands what you're looking for, and hopefully there's more than one of us.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I have never ever seen any woman violent enough to victimise those they know are weaker than them.

I have and when it does happen it tends to leave all but the most brutal and vicious men behind in the dust for shear sadism.

I don't hold much truck with extreme outliers like insanity. They're outliers.

Any social or subcultural group where fear through violence accords status that isn't also totally oppressive of women you'll find them. Nowhere near as common as blokes playing the cycle but they're there.

Hell, in the late 80s around near where I lived it was pretty common to see small groups of teenage girls use violence and intimidation for shit and giggles on other girls who were by themselves... more than a few of those groups would even attack weaker looking blokes.

 

[VampLena]

I've noticed people, men and women get silly ideas about violent women. Im one myself, and I used to get into a ton of fights with boys and girls when I was younger, and it wasnt a sexual thing at all. Later I channeled it into martial arts, and would only date other martial artists so we could spar often. I dont find anything wrong with this, but there is a double standard, people think men like that are "cool" but a girl? Shes "Crazy". Women dont have to be weak and demure and its not something I could ever be.

I learned that the first time I broke a guys nose with a single punch and got blood all over me. Ah, fond memories, but I did enjoy that and yes, he deserved it, no boy should be grabbing a 12 yr old girls chest.

 

[Cephei Mordred]

I don't think it's a flaw to "not want to be challenged" in a relationship.

 

[darkless]

I like my woman strong and independent I don't want to have to take care of them and I don't want them to take care of me, I like that.

But then comes the question, what exactly do you mean by "Violent", I mean if you are going to get physical over an altercation I'm out.

 

[The Cor]

I like fiery women but then again I like all kinds of women, beside the extreme pacifist/submissive ones those are really boring and just frustrate me.

What I dislike really though is unjustified hormonal bitching or when it is a facade to push people away, but I despise any form of idiotic anger.

 

[Arif_Sohaib]

While you are comfortable coming out of the role that you think society has placed you in, most men are not because the results for a man doing so are much more embarrassing and humiliating and in your particular case, may be dangerous.
You playfight, he gets beat up, he just got beat up by a girl. Which is emasculating and embarrassing for him.
You playfight, he fights back and you get beaten up. He just beat up a girl. Which is bad for him for several reasons.
You playfight, neighbor thinks you are actually fighting and before he can say anything to the responding police, he is in handcuffs(if the show "Cops"(which I saw while changing channels) is any indication, because in one case they handcuffed a guy even when it was has wife that had beaten him up and didn't uncuff him until she showed very clear signs of being drunk and violent and they still had to bring the guy up to the car to calm her down when they arrested her and she started banging her head on the window).
So you should be able to guess now why guys are afraid of you.

 

[Ledan]

Well... I like it if women can be a mix of both. I don't think a woman should have to "mother" the guy, but if you're REALLY down it's nice with a bit of kindness.
That said, I really like women who can tell me off when I am being an ass, lazy, or unfocused , and a bit of a tussle never harmed anyone.... well, not much anyways.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Bit of a late reply. Oh well.

No, I don't think I have a skewed idea at all. I know what assertive is, I know what aggressive is.

It's one thing to tell me, and it's another thing to show me. From what I saw, you didn't seem to, but I'll read the rest of the post and see if you show me otherwise.

No, I'm saying both outspoken and physically violent. I'm not confusing anything.

*facepalm*

I'm going to be honest: I didn't anticipate that as a response. I sort of assumed that no one would be asking why guys weren't interested in them while simultaneously admitting to being spontaneously and frequently violent.

Violent and aggressive. I never once described myself as assertive. You're the one who threw that word on me just now.

...well now. This is going somewhere horrifying.

I said it fine. I'm not jumping around. You're the one who made it seem so when you took my word 'aggressive' and replaced with with 'assertive'. If I meant 'assertive', I would have said 'assertive'.

I can be assertive also, however, but that's not what this thread is about.

I thought 'aggressive' was meant to be 'assertive' because I didn't think it was possible for someone to post "I'm loud and violent, why don't people want to date me?" without any trolling intent.

There are many more sentences in this thread.

The contents of a single sentence in a larger body can be very, very significant. It only takes one Holocaust denial to ruin an otherwise lovely dinner party, even if you were a picture of etiquette before and afterward.

You seem to think that being aggressive and having a like for violent playfights is the same as being a sadist. I can understand where your confusion comes from, but it's not my problem.

Not really, no. But when you "get a rise from it," that's sadism, for the same reasons why S&M isn't called a 'hobby' and building model planes isn't called a 'fetish.'

As long as "assaults" were something mutual, something expected, something wanted and with someone I trusted.. then why the heck wouldn't I? If I had a relationship dynamic like that with someone and I enjoyed it, then yes.

Right...but I'm guessing that most people don't want that. And if you're constantly driving at it, they're going to be rather put off.

If you mean "Would you enjoy being with someone who abuses you in ways you are not comfortable with in the least?" then no, I wouldnt like it. But that's also not what I'm talking about at all. To imply that this is what I'm talking about is to imply that I want someone to be terrified of me, that I want them to cower. If I wanted that, I wouldn't be bothered about finding a relationship with someone who had the same desires. I'd just go out and abuse some poor sap, and we wouldn't be discussing it on this thread.

Okay, let me put it this way: for most people, physical violence is the opposite of romance. They don't want to brawl with their significant other for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being the social consequences.

Let's say you have one of your fights, it was entirely mutual, and you both had a great time. The next day, you go out, and you look like you lost a UFC match. You've got plenty of visible bruises, and maybe people will be inexplicably nicer to you, ask you whether or not everything's okay in your love life. It's completely irrelevant whether or not he's got marks, too, because people will assume that he's abusive.

And I don't mean random people you pass on the street when you're together. I mean people that you/he might've known for years. Because people don't date everyone they've ever known, so they have no way of knowing whether or not the otherwise perfectly nice guy they work with beats his girlfriend when he gets pissed off.

So yeah. You can't get a steady boyfriend because you're dissatisfied if he isn't doing something every moral fiber of his being, not to mention societal imprinting, is screaming at him not to do.

That, and you also described yourself as 'outspoken,' which when paired with 'violent' usually just means 'loud.' So I guess I gave my bottom line near the start of this post: you are loud and violent, and even getting past that, most guys have nothing to gain and potentially everything to lose from indulging your wishes.

 

[emeraldrafael]

I like a girlw ith a little bite in her. As long as she keeps in check. And no, thats no some chauvinistic view about how women should be bottled up and remain in the kitchen while men get to be rough and tough and drink and swear and stuff.

It just means that she should be able to control it, like men are expected to. I'll be honest, a girl with some bite makes the sex a little better (for me at least). shell have enough back bone to give a guy attitude right back to him, and because i dont fight girls, I know that she can fight my battles if a woman wants to fight me (sorry, theres just no way you can be a man and look good coming out of a fight with a woman win or lose).

So yeah. i basically have the same policy as violent men. If theyre overly so, I want nothing to do with them. Unfortunately I cant apply full policy because the policy with men extends to say that if they continue to be overly so and obnoxious about it their face needs a good introduction with the pavement, and like is aid, I dont fight/hit girls. I also have the same policy that if a woman abuses a man for her personal gain, whatever the reason, she is scum of the earth, just like a man would be if the situation would be reversed.

 

[funguy2121]

I've been using these forums for a while, but (1) have changed my SN to break away from the people who don't share the same values. Start afresh, if you will.

I'm going to be straight with you guys. (2)I'm not a calm, well-behaved lady. I can be quite fiery, quite aggressive, and you know what? I'm happy with that and who I am.

What I've found is, though, (3)that people are not happy when women show even one ounce of strength or conviction in who they are. Even less so when they're aggressive rather than a pacifist. It's like (5)men, in particular (if we're talking romantically) are looking for a relationship in which they are mothered. I'm not that sort of person, and don't want to be with someone who needs mothering. I've tried it once, it ended in disaster and (6)I deviated so far from who I was, I just wasnt happy and neither was he. The relationship became monotone because I was so stifled by having to portray the 'expected' version of me.

So I come to you. (7)What do YOU think about women with a more violent and hot-headed nature than the norm? (8)Do you prefer women to be subtle? Mother you? Why do you prefer this? I'm supposing a lot of you play video games with particually 'strong' minded (and bodied) women, so when it comes to real life.. (9)why do you want me down on my knees? (Hey, careful, I dont mean in that sense).

I'm not saying that I would go shank someone in the street or be completely irrational. I have a head on my shoulders. (10)But I like violence (as play in a relationship, or as a happy relationship dynamic). I get a rise from it. And I'm fine with who I am.

Is it really so scary to men? I'm not looking for advice here, even though I do despair at the lack of relationship prospects for me. I can handle myself. (11)I want insight into why so many men seem to need and expect passive women.

The trouble with binaries is, they always privilege one over the other.

(1) I wonder why you would have to change your screen name? It sounds as though you no longer wanted to be associated with people who named you as a friend on here, in which case my first reaction is "relax, it's just the internet." And why so afraid of those who don't share all of your values? Do you not think that you have something to learn from them?

(2) This actually sounds sexy. Not trolling you or hitting on you sexy, but actually, metaphysically, mentally sexy. Until I considered the title of the thread.
Do you really think that hitting someone, or injuring someone, or breaking their shit, is a sign of strength, or anything you described therein? Does it not point to unresolved personal issues and nothing more?

(4) Well, Escapists are generally not happy when women state that they still don't have all the same rights as men. Actually, the majority of Escapists don't seem all that bothered by the plight of women anywhere. This perception is probably an exaggeration of the truth, but I'm sure you've been in a thread about women before - it's a playground of misogyny. My question is: why do you think you can't be an aggressive person AND a pacifist? Or do you mean pushy and violent when you say aggressive? And why do you equate standing up for what you believe in to beating the shit out of someone?

(5) Men are like that until we grow up some and realize that we should be taking care of our own domestic/hygeine needs (hooray for my spelling). If you're bitching because they want someone to listen to them, you should stop paying attention to verbal gender role propaganda and take the same advice that everyone always gives us guys: listen more, and you'll get more out of her. So listen more, and you'll get more out of him.

(6) Again, what do you mean? You deviated from who you are by BEING with someone? Or by being affectionate and attentive (which is pretty close to the dictionary condition of a lover)? Would you rather spend out your days in an institution or self-sequesterment, writing about how much better you are than all the lovey-dovies that you don't need anywho? Clarity, please.

(7) Answer: women who aren't afraid to stand their ground, women who stand up for their selves and for what they believe in, are unbelievably hot. Women who tear shit up and act crazy may be hot for about a weekend - long enough to screw them and then change the locks. You asked.

(8) "Subtlety." Again with the binaries. Sanity is underrated. A well-grounded, fully-formed-on-their-own person is underrated.

(9) Would you think me rude if I asked you to kindly come down from your cross? Binaries are bullshit, they are two-dimensional thinking, they are a trick your mind plays on itself to keep from doing any actual hard work. And it's always a nice touch to add a bit of self-appointed martyrdom. Why be cold and unfeeling or rageful, scary and violent toward others, but be sad and pitying towards yourself? That's not an insult, it's an honest question.

(10) I take it you don't mean wrasslin'. In which case it's probably time to consider why you get a rise out of it, and why you excuse it as a game. You need help, not enablers.

(11) This is a sorry excuse hiding within a very real issue that cannot help you confront what's keeping you from having the sort of relationships you describe. The answer must begin and end with honesty with yourself. Or something. Either way, violence from anyone is a sign of a weaker mind and you should think better of yourself.

 

[funguy2121]

snip

Will you be my friend? That was so much better stated than my own post.

snip

To the both of you: I didn't even get to this point and I had a long post. Trust a Bible Belt dweller (in case you're not Yanks, I live in Texas): depending on where you live, it can either be the wrong cop or any cop. If there's a domestic disturbance, either no one goes to jail or the guy goes to jail. I had a vengeful, opportunistic, violent whirlwind of a sociopath for a girlfriend, and when I finally got away from her, I cut my losses - a couple thousand dollars' worth of losses, at the time just about everything I owned. I told a co-worker about this, when I found out that I'd have to spend at least $900 to take her to small claims court and that without receipts I still may not have much of a chance, and she said that it's best just to stay away. My co-worker told me that she had quit drinking after she assaulted her fiance's best friend, who never touched her once, and that he was about to lose his visa over it. She said that she went to the judge and the county clerk numerous times and that every time they told her that SHE was the victim and was just blaming herself. The friend, who ultimately was deported, was hospitalized the night of the assault.

So yeah, OP wants a guy to secure a prison cell for himself, in an environment where they find out why one ends up there, and where rape is rampant. Forget reason. I'm not sure OP deserves to be with someone.