Violent women.

[DoctorFrankenStein]

Maybe you've misdiagnosed the problem here. Maybe it's not that men are put off by your confidence but rather you may have a knack for offending people. While it's true that you shouldn't try to be someone you're not to please someone your interested in, sometimes you do need to change certain mannerisms in order for a relationship to work (eg, an easygoing but lazy guy may have to become more proactive, but he shouldn't have to act aggressive to please his significant other.)

On the other hand, it could just be that your going after the wrong guys, especially if you've drawn this conclusion from the results of one or two dates-gone-wrong. While you are correct that a lot of guys dislike a strong willed girl, I've heard enough opinions to suggest that just as many admire that trait in a woman. My guess is that less confidant guys feel intimidated by stronger willed girls, and confidence is not a trait typified by geeks. You see, your statement about guys liking strong women in video games doesn't really say much as, in a videogame, you interact with them through an idealized male protagonist (I'm sure the Grey Warden never has to deal with sweaty palms or acne).

Hope that helps.

I think I do have a knack of offending people, yes.

I don't mean he should act aggressive. I simply mean that he wouldn't sway or run from a woman with a more aggressive personality. He would enjoy a woman initiating a 'playfight'. I mean simply enjoying a certain relationship dynamic.

From my standpoint, I find it hard to understand how someone cannot see how what I'm saying is different to 'I want to stab everyone and land people in hospital' or 'I want to terrify/lord it over any boyfriend I have'. I'm not saying a guy would just have to deal with my nature if he wants to be with me, or back down (I wouldnt like it if he did) I'm talking about a mesh of personality. I still mean both parties feeling safe and loved.

A certain dynamic that seems to be more accepted man-man than it is woman-man, and asking why men prefer more passive women but still admire strength and willfullness in general? Okay, maybe a lot of men don't admire outright violence in the most understood sense of the word. I can understand that. But crude violence is not what I mean.

Thank you for your insight. I do see a lot of people here saying they admire women who are not pacifists. Unfortunately, I still look like a sociopath! That's my fault. I think another problem is that, perhaps, maybe I'm just not 'usual'.

Forever alone.

I understand where you're coming from and I know it can be hard to articulate. I was pretty hot-tempered in my youth as well. Still am really, just takes more to set me off these days. And it took me a while to find the right guy as well. I tried a mamas-boy that got off on me terrifying him, then a big guy that liked to argue and play-fight, and then a shorter one with a martyr complex that mostly just stood there and took it.
But my current one, Spirit, is the best of all. We're BOTH volatile, but extremely tender with one another. Anyone who tried to rape, pick-pocket, or otherwise fight with either of us will swiftly have both of us pounding them into slimy mush and busted bones.
I think that's a sign of a strong relationship. The woman isn't submissive, but the guy isn't either. They both work as an equal team.
I don't understand people who look for meek partners. If all you want to do is take care of someone, adopt a kid. Or better yet, just get a dog. Haha.

On a more personal note, don't be afraid to look outside your own age group. I couldn't find a guy that could keep up with my level of sexual energy and didn't already have kids. [Which I don't want.] So I'm robbing the cradle. Spirit's 22 to my 33. Plus he's bi-sexual, so if I exhibit some masculine traits; he finds that attractive too.

 

[Avistew]

I don't like violent people in general, because violence is about hurting others.
I don't think it makes a difference if the person is male or female.
If we're talking about someone who is a bit more aggressive but isn't actually physically, verbally or emotionally violent (i.e. abusive) then I guess that's fine.

 

[Actual]

I've always said I want to marry a woman who can beat me in a fight and look sexy doing it.

Though I admit I do like being looked after occasionally, it shows they care and I'll reciprocate. Though you can take it too far, I had a girl who would get hysterical every time I took a bump or cut, that irritated me a great deal.

 

[TheKruzdawg]

Expectations of the "fairer sex". That's basically it.

Then again, violence is never a good thing. You may be happy with it, but if your partner isn't, then you're just being selfish and childish. That really won't help you win someone over.

I wouldn't want to be with someone who wasn't happy with it. As I said, I'm not the sort to shank someone in the street and I'm certainly not talking about outright abuse. I don't want to abuse anyone, and wouldn't want to be in a relationship where the way I treated someone made them feel bad. I don't want to treat someone badly.

Okay, in terms that people may understand about what I mean when I say violence.. Playfights, for instance, although my nature does go beyond that. I don't mean going absolutely apeshit on a trembling figure in the corner of the kitchen, that's not what I mean at all and find people who act in such a way scum.

Have you ever watched Burn Notice? The way that you describe the violence you lean towards reminds me of the character Fiona. She is very feisty, outgoing and a little bit of roughhousing is like foreplay for her.

 

[TechPulse]

I prefer a straight up ***** at getting her opinion known over some pacifist that lets herself get beat and hurt all the time. But more of the inbetween is the best...If you can't do it at all, there's something wrong, but if you do it too much it's just like "I have my mother for this".

 

[InsipidMadness]

Spoiler

I've been using these forums for a while, but have changed my SN to break away from the people who don't share the same values. Start afresh, if you will.

I'm going to be straight with you guys. I'm not a calm, well-behaved lady. I can be quite fiery, quite aggressive, and you know what? I'm happy with that and who I am.

What I've found is, though, that people are not happy when women show even one ounce of strength or conviction in who they are. Even less so when they're aggressive rather than a pacifist. It's like men, in particular (if we're talking romantically) are looking for a relationship in which they are mothered. I'm not that sort of person, and don't want to be with someone who needs mothering. I've tried it once, it ended in disaster and I deviated so far from who I was, I just wasnt happy and neither was he. The relationship became monotone because I was so stifled by having to portray the 'expected' version of me.

So I come to you. What do YOU think about women with a more violent and hot-headed nature than the norm? Do you prefer women to be subtle? Mother you? Why do you prefer this? I'm supposing a lot of you play video games with particually 'strong' minded (and bodied) women, so when it comes to real life.. why do you want me down on my knees? (Hey, careful, I dont mean in that sense).

I'm not saying that I would go shank someone in the street or be completely irrational. I have a head on my shoulders. But I like violence (as play in a relationship, or as a happy relationship dynamic). I get a rise from it. And I'm fine with who I am.

Is it really so scary to men? I'm not looking for advice here, even though I do despair at the lack of relationship prospects for me. I can handle myself. I want insight into why so many men seem to need and expect passive women.

So what's your two-cents on turning the tables? What about a guy who's passive, timid, caring and subtle? It's a bit of a double standard to expect women to rise up and match the aggressive environment set up by a previously male dominant society, while if a man shows signs of passive-aggressiveness or being softhearted, he's instantly branded a coward and weak.

From my perspective, women with masculine qualities typically get applauded for showing strength and femininity. However, a male with feminine qualities is instantly looked down upon and ostracized.

 

[Grospoliner]

I don't know about most people, but I admire strong women. Not over bearing, not pointlessly cruel, not selfish, but real strength of character. Confidence, competence, capable, self-sufficient, honorable, that's really attractive in my opinion.

 

[Semudara]

The dating scene, like society itself, is plagued by gender stereotypes and the expectations of gender roles. On top of that, you obviously have trouble describing yourself clearly.

I'm sure you can find the right guy for you someday. Goodness knows I would like a partner who wants to spar now and then, and I can't be the only one.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Expectations of the "fairer sex". That's basically it.

Then again, violence is never a good thing. You may be happy with it, but if your partner isn't, then you're just being selfish and childish. That really won't help you win someone over.

I wouldn't want to be with someone who wasn't happy with it. As I said, I'm not the sort to shank someone in the street and I'm certainly not talking about outright abuse. I don't want to abuse anyone, and wouldn't want to be in a relationship where the way I treated someone made them feel bad. I don't want to treat someone badly.

Okay, in terms that people may understand about what I mean when I say violence.. Playfights, for instance, although my nature does go beyond that. I don't mean going absolutely apeshit on a trembling figure in the corner of the kitchen, that's not what I mean at all and find people who act in such a way scum.

If both parties are consentual then by all means theres nothing wrong with you. Thing is that most men dont like being abused at all, especially by women as it puts into context the awfull reality of having to:

A: Hit a girl - most guys find this really hard
B: Accept they are being abused by a woman - Again kinda hard.

Both a bit sexist.

Its fine to want what you want but dont get sad when you say "I like punching my loved ones in the face" and they all back off or act disgusted. Im sure i have some interests that disgust you. And thats fine. Thats taste, and its brilliant we all have our own. I got kinda angry at your seeming uncaringness for wanted to be violent toward a loved one. Im a very passive male who likes being more gentle to my partner, and the idea kinda sickened me. Then i read this. THIS makes it ok. This puts it all into context. You are not a sadist as i first thought. You just have a weird need. Which is cool. Because deep down we all do.

Just please dont accidently hurt someone because they might not understand exactly what you want. Or be offended because people dont like that kinda thing. I dont like the idea at all, but im rather liberal with what goes on between anyone as long as its consensual so im all for you having every right to do and like whatever you want.

Feel proud of who you are. Figure that a LOT of guys dont want what you have, but some will, and they are important, not a lot of people want a really passive guy. But its not a big deal. I hope you find someone who enjoys what you do.

 

[loc978]

A bit late for me to be weighing in on the OP question, I know... but

Spoiler: snip

I've been using these forums for a while, but have changed my SN to break away from the people who don't share the same values. Start afresh, if you will.

I'm going to be straight with you guys. I'm not a calm, well-behaved lady. I can be quite fiery, quite aggressive, and you know what? I'm happy with that and who I am.

What I've found is, though, that people are not happy when women show even one ounce of strength or conviction in who they are. Even less so when they're aggressive rather than a pacifist. It's like men, in particular (if we're talking romantically) are looking for a relationship in which they are mothered. I'm not that sort of person, and don't want to be with someone who needs mothering. I've tried it once, it ended in disaster and I deviated so far from who I was, I just wasnt happy and neither was he. The relationship became monotone because I was so stifled by having to portray the 'expected' version of me.

So I come to you. What do YOU think about women with a more violent and hot-headed nature than the norm? Do you prefer women to be subtle? Mother you? Why do you prefer this? I'm supposing a lot of you play video games with particually 'strong' minded (and bodied) women, so when it comes to real life.. why do you want me down on my knees? (Hey, careful, I dont mean in that sense).

I'm not saying that I would go shank someone in the street or be completely irrational. I have a head on my shoulders. But I like violence (as play in a relationship, or as a happy relationship dynamic). I get a rise from it. And I'm fine with who I am.

Is it really so scary to men? I'm not looking for advice here, even though I do despair at the lack of relationship prospects for me. I can handle myself. I want insight into why so many men seem to need and expect passive women.

As a calm, rational, mostly unemotional person, I find any fiery, aggressive person to be just plain annoying. Male or female is immaterial at that point, because I simply don't want to be around them. Funny thing is, our culture likes to confuse extraversion with strength. Most strongly extraverted, highly aggressive people I've met aren't strong of mind or body... they're just histrionic (not making an accusation, you seem quite rational).

That said... it's all just social conditioning. Our society is having growing pains as old methods of control die by the onslaught of the sciences. Men used to be brainwashed into aggressive behavior, women into passive-aggressive behavior. That's changing. Give it time.

 

[Biosophilogical]

Then again, violence is never a good thing.

Pretty much this. I don't like violent streaks in anyone. I find it unsettling that they can cause harm to another human being without batting an eyelid (and enjoy it!). But that's different to a 'strong', 'confident' or 'proud' woman (or man), because they are people who stick up for their beliefs, rather than violent people, who stick up for anything because they just want to fight.

I like people[footnote]Screw this sexual perspective, I'm talking about how I like people as people[/footnote] who have a strong sense of honour (for lack of a better word). They'll stand up for what they believe in, respect your right to think otherwise, but will do their best to stop you if you try and hurt the things or people they care about.

EDIT: As for just being 'firey'? Not a fan. Passion is better than fire.

 

[General Vagueness]

snip

I actually said violent because I meant violent.

Of course you did, I was saying it might not mean what you think it means, at least to other people.

I was simply refuting people thinking that all it can mean is that I'm a sociopath. If I were a sociopath, I'd admit it. People are so adversed to violence, and jump on the 'Ooohh that's always bad' train so readily.

Yes, and it seemed to me you weren't explaining it very well.

 

[cobra_ky]

I would never abuse someone. I am not an abuser, and wouldnt want to be. I wouldnt want a man to let me abuse them, and would hate to see anyone being abused by anyone else.

Switching roles, I would know the difference between a man abusing me and a man having some good natured, human fun with me. The respect and trust is built in the relationship as a whole, allowing for that closeness of interaction and the quick pace of heart beats that follow.

Two human beings with a connection, both with their own minds and their own strengths. Both accepting, both willing to play, both getting a rise out of violence. Again, good naturedly. But also a man who wont be bothered if, in a disagreement, I grab him and root him to the floor -- mostly because it will end in a kiss. A man who would smile at that sort of interaction, rather than think it means I want to do serious damage to him (and I would not attempt to do serious damage to a man in a 'playfight' such as this). A man who wouldnt assume that this behaviour means I dont respect him. Perhaps a man who would chuckle at it. A man who would fight back (not wanting to seriously damage me either). We'd then tease each other over who won. I really am just talking about interaction, here. The question is "Why assume?", "Why do you not want women who behave like this, when good natured 'conflict' is what most mammals do for enjoyment?".

Root conflict in a relationship, the sort of conflict that could destroy the happiness of the relationship, should be sorted by talking and not by throwing plates. I'm not talking about throwing plates. A disagreement on which milk we should be buying? We'll disagree, I'll get wound up, he may get exasperated. We stand and look at each other. We'll scuffle, I'll get him on the floor and he'll laugh at how my face is crunched up. I may hit him on the arm for that comment, still wound up, and he'll laugh and say how my strike feels like a kitten batting with it's paw. Then he'll remind me the shop is closing soon, and we really must get some milk. We go and get some milk. No one gets hurt, no one is scared, and then we eat some cereal (with the milk I wanted to buy, because I won the scuffle. We'd buy his milk if he won).

Yes, it's a bit more than play fighting. It is aggressive. But it is in no way aimed to abuse. I would never "root someone to the floor" if they were not happy with this sort of interaction, and did not enjoy it with me.

Maybe it's a strange sort of closeness an interaction to want. I'm realising that more now.

This is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for in a woman. Someone who's sure and honest about herself, someone i don't have to worry about hurting, and someone i know isn't ever going to hold back around me. A fair fight, basically.

As tough as it's been for you, i think it's harder for men, because we couldn't even bring it up without being immediately castigated for it. That's a big reason why the culture of abuse makes me so angry, because it makes it so much harder to have the kind of relationship i want.

And yeah, as this thread has wonderfully demonstrated, people have a lot of trouble getting past the idea that violence = abuse = always bad. To me it's much more than that; it's a way of proving your strength; that you can dish it out as well as you can take it. And as long as it's consensual and everyone understands what the boundaries are, there's nothing wrong with that.

Like you said, it's different from what most of the hardcore BDSM community is after. It has nothing to do with dominance and submission. To me the idea of having an equal, the uncertainly of winning or losing, those are lot more exciting to me than just wailing on some poor defenseless schlub. I think this affects my taste in games, too.

As an aside, i have to say i'm pretty impressed by how you've handled yourself in this thread. It takes guts to put yourself out there and let people misconstrue and misjudge you, and i think you've been incredibly patient in explaining yourself. So don't give up yet, there's at least one guy out there who understands what you're looking for, and hopefully there's more than one of us.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I have never ever seen any woman violent enough to victimise those they know are weaker than them.

I have and when it does happen it tends to leave all but the most brutal and vicious men behind in the dust for shear sadism.

I don't hold much truck with extreme outliers like insanity. They're outliers.

Any social or subcultural group where fear through violence accords status that isn't also totally oppressive of women you'll find them. Nowhere near as common as blokes playing the cycle but they're there.

Hell, in the late 80s around near where I lived it was pretty common to see small groups of teenage girls use violence and intimidation for shit and giggles on other girls who were by themselves... more than a few of those groups would even attack weaker looking blokes.

 

[VampLena]

I've noticed people, men and women get silly ideas about violent women. Im one myself, and I used to get into a ton of fights with boys and girls when I was younger, and it wasnt a sexual thing at all. Later I channeled it into martial arts, and would only date other martial artists so we could spar often. I dont find anything wrong with this, but there is a double standard, people think men like that are "cool" but a girl? Shes "Crazy". Women dont have to be weak and demure and its not something I could ever be.

I learned that the first time I broke a guys nose with a single punch and got blood all over me. Ah, fond memories, but I did enjoy that and yes, he deserved it, no boy should be grabbing a 12 yr old girls chest.

 

[Cephei Mordred]

I don't think it's a flaw to "not want to be challenged" in a relationship.

 

[darkless]

I like my woman strong and independent I don't want to have to take care of them and I don't want them to take care of me, I like that.

But then comes the question, what exactly do you mean by "Violent", I mean if you are going to get physical over an altercation I'm out.

 

[The Cor]

I like fiery women but then again I like all kinds of women, beside the extreme pacifist/submissive ones those are really boring and just frustrate me.

What I dislike really though is unjustified hormonal bitching or when it is a facade to push people away, but I despise any form of idiotic anger.

 

[Arif_Sohaib]

While you are comfortable coming out of the role that you think society has placed you in, most men are not because the results for a man doing so are much more embarrassing and humiliating and in your particular case, may be dangerous.
You playfight, he gets beat up, he just got beat up by a girl. Which is emasculating and embarrassing for him.
You playfight, he fights back and you get beaten up. He just beat up a girl. Which is bad for him for several reasons.
You playfight, neighbor thinks you are actually fighting and before he can say anything to the responding police, he is in handcuffs(if the show "Cops"(which I saw while changing channels) is any indication, because in one case they handcuffed a guy even when it was has wife that had beaten him up and didn't uncuff him until she showed very clear signs of being drunk and violent and they still had to bring the guy up to the car to calm her down when they arrested her and she started banging her head on the window).
So you should be able to guess now why guys are afraid of you.

 

[Ledan]

Well... I like it if women can be a mix of both. I don't think a woman should have to "mother" the guy, but if you're REALLY down it's nice with a bit of kindness.
That said, I really like women who can tell me off when I am being an ass, lazy, or unfocused , and a bit of a tussle never harmed anyone.... well, not much anyways.