We should forgive Bioware.

[ThriKreen]

Plus there's the fact that Bioware isn't actually Bioware any more. The majority of the original devs have been reassigned to other EA projects or have quit.

Completely false statement, a lot of the 'old-timers' (if you will) from the KOTOR days are still there.

 

[ScaryAlmond]

Lolno

Just to say this may not deserve a warning but anyway
Bioware over the last 20 years has been such a huge powerhouse and has again and again produced exceptionally good games.

If anyone else produced games at the quality of DA2 or Mass effect 3 ending No one else would bat an eye.
However it's due to this history that people are incredibly shocked and worried about bioware's future.
Imagine if Apple released a tablet at the quality of a kindle and price of the ipad but the same price just think of the outrage a kindle is good but it is nothing compared to the quality and uses of the app store Its good but not great.
Another reason people are worried is due to EA's history with this sort of thing they have shown they don't know how to run developers well and to balance profit with quality.

The only way people will forgive Bioware is if they make a good game but getting the trust back will take a while if Bioware lives through this which I personally think is fairly unlikely.

 

[shrekfan246]

Lolno

Just to say this may not deserve a warning but anyway

It was a low content post, those tend to get mod-wrath'd.

Another reason people are worried is due to EA's history with this sort of thing they have shown they don't know how to run developers well and to balance profit with quality.

The only way people will forgive Bioware is if they make a good game but getting the trust back will take a while if Bioware lives through this which I personally think is fairly unlikely.

I agree with both of those sentiments.

I tried to avoid mentioning EA in my OP, really, because I wanted to focus mostly just on Bioware, but I suppose a big part of it is EA, so that's unavoidable.

But I'm not really talking about "trusting" Bioware again, because they're just a company. Why would you trust them for anything? They don't care about you when it comes down to it. I'm just saying that "hating" them seems equally pointless to me. I suppose that most people probably just don't care anymore, but there still seems to be a pretty prevalent group of people who are holding grudges against the developer, and it doesn't really make sense to me.

 

[Joccaren]

So after Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, and The Old Republic, many people have claimed that Bioware is ruined forever or that they've betrayed their fans, and so they'll never purchase a game with the Bioware name on it ever again. And I have to ask why? What's the purpose?

Because we're pissed off with Bioware, find the games pretty bad at best and want Bioware to actually make good games again? [No, I'm not talking about RPG games. I'm talking about any game that doesn't feel extremely rushed and lacking in effort put in].

Bioware has a long history of releasing pretty good games. Those previously mentioned three included, whatever missteps they may have taken along the way, they were still decent titles overall.

And I had a long history of good grades and paying attention to the teacher in Primary School. In high school I completely ignored them and didn't do any work, leading to my marks dropping from A+ to B. Now, this helped in year 12 as I wasn't burned out like the rest of the class, and could actually focus when I needed to, but something tells me that's a slightly different situation to what Bioware's in. Point is, their history from 8+ years back doesn't mean crap compared to what they've put out in the last 3 years. The last three years have been utter crap, and unless they do a complete turn around and start putting effort into their games again - something which I sadly don't see happening thanks to EA - then nothing is going to change, and I have no reason to buy from them.

So why is it that DA2 and ME3 have had such a controversial impact on the community that people just automatically refuse to give the time of day to something branded with "Bioware" on it anymore? In the big picture, was the ending really that important? Was it really that terrible, even after the "Extended Edition", that you'd never be able to purchase a Bioware game ever again?

DA2 and ME3 individually didn't have that effect. Its the combined picture they paint of Bioware putting less and less effort into their games that makes me automatically refuse Bioware titles now. Its not because I am that pissed off at Bioware for ruining two of my favourite franchises in recent years, but because I know they're not going to change, and I'm not going to like any of the half baked sequels they try to push out from here on in. If some miracle occurs and EA realises that they might need to give the group some more time and money, and tell them to make a well made and polished game that absolutely reaks of effort - I'll go out and buy that the second its confirmed. Sadly, its not going to happen.
And were the games that terrible?
Yes. Easily. Even after the extended cut. There was nothing entertaining about DA2 or ME3, and I had to push myself to actually finish each of them. I have never replayed either, despite having 10+ replays of even DA:O, fully completed.

Because I think it's a waste of emotion to feel so strongly about something so insignificant. Are people swearing off Pixar forever because of Cars and its sequel? What would've happened to Batman Begins if people had sworn they would never watch another Batman film ever again after Batman Forever and Batman & Robin? What would've happened to Pink Floyd if people had sworn them off forever after Syd Barrett left the band?

"I find these games insignificant, so you shouldn't care".
I'm sure there are a lot of things you care about that I'd find insignificant to me, but I'm not telling you what to care about and what not to. Believe it or not, Bioware has had a great history of releasing great games that people got really attached to. Then they managed to screw up the most recent iterations that badly that its like watching a loved one die in a drink driving car accident.
The thing is those other examples have the opportunity to change - or at least seem to.
Batman has and will be done over and over by different actors, directors, writers and crew. You didn't like one iteration? Why not wait for the next, it will be different and you might like it.
Pixar made Cars wrong for some people, yet they loved their other works. Wait for the next Pixar movie. Is it good? Yes? Keep watching. Pixar has likely changed back for the better. If not, then you likely do decide not to see any Pixar movies again because their new style isn't to your tastes.
Whilst you might have Loyalty to one specific member of a crew - like many did to Drew Karpyshyn - them leaving in no way guarantees that the next songs will be crap. People decided to stay with Bioware after Karpyshyn left, that's not their problem. They're problem is the quality of games that have been pumped out. If the first 3 or 4 songs with the new member were absolute crap, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would have stopped listening to Pink Floyd too.

I'm rambling a bit now, so to summarize here:
Maybe Bioware is just moving in a direction that you don't care for anymore. Maybe something amplified how angry you got at those two games, like their reception on the internet or something. Maybe you just think Bioware is stupid for not catering to your wants and sticking rigidly to their formulaic RPG structure. Whatever it is, can't you let it go, though? Can't you take a deep breath, relax, and either say "Yeah, okay Bioware, you do what you want, but I think I've moved on from the style you're trying to reach" without spewing hatred and anger their way, or hell, be excited to see what they do when they aren't trying to confine themselves to the RPG structure? They were the people who made MDK2 and Jade Empire, after all.

I have no problem with different styles. I play RPG, FPS, TPS, RTS, TBS 4X, AA, Racing and basically every other style of game out there. If its done well, I'll like it. If it feels rushed and half assed, I won't. That is why I haven't liked the more recent Bioware games. They are rushed and half assed, it shows, and there is nothing to really enjoy in them - likely a side effect of them being rushed and half assed.
Can I take a deep breath and let their fall into mediocrity and likely eventually death [Judging by other companies EA has bought and done this to] just go on without saying anything?
No. I loved Bioware. They made great games. They don't any more. They think they can get away with making half assed, rushed products and have people love and buy them anyway? No. I'm going to tell them till I'm out of Internet how much I preferred the way they used to put effort into their games, how they used to take time to create them, and not try to pump them out every 2 years or so. With some luck, maybe they'll listen. Odds are they won't.
I don't scream and shout because I want Bioware to die. I do it because I am loyal to them and want them to live. I want them to achieve what they have proven they can achieve, and not just take the easy path out all the time. That is why I will not stop my complaining until they change or are finally closed down. Because I still have hope that they might put effort into their games again, and I'm not going to let the idea that they can fade from their minds.

 

[The_Lost_King]

I do not "hate" Bioware, nor will I claim that I will never purchase another of their games again, despite being disappointed with Mass Effect 3, and irritated by the clearly rushed Dragon Age 2 (although it's still fairly good).

What I will not do, which I did before is take Bioware's word ever again. I will not believe their marketing, I will not believe them when they say X, Y or Z will feature prominently in the game, and I will almost certainly never pre-order a game from them again.

Why? Because they lie, they falsely advertise and they build up too much hype over things that end up insignificant. They rush out their products, they do not respect their customers enough to answer their questions or concerns maturely, instead resorting to PR, double-speak.

That said, if they create a game, it happens to look pretty good, I am hearing from various people that it's worth a shot, or from my own research I like what I see, then I will buy it.

I do not hold onto any resentment against Bioware, but I will no longer buy games "Because it's a Bioware game, they always make great games" which was actually the reason that I bought Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins in the first place.

Pretty much this. This guy captured all of my thoughts and put it into this post. I was ready to swear off Bioware but I think that they can still come back. the other parts of me3 were phenomenal and DA2 would have been acceptable from another game company.

 

[Don Reba]

There is also the Origin issue. Any game that requires it does not exist for me. Quite frankly, EA is one of the last companies I would trust with a Steam-like game distribution channel. This is not a service it should be running.

 

[Hazy992]

snip

This the most sensible approach to Bioware you can have IMO. Judge them by a case by case basis and don't believe the hype, positive or negative.

 

[BeeGeenie]

I thought they made some Really bad decisions with DA2, but hey, we all make mistakes. Bioware has done some very good things in the past, so it all evens out. If they continue to move in directions I'm not interested in, I'm not going to buy those games. Simple as that. It's not about hate or forgiveness, it's about what I as a consumer am interested in spending money on.

 

[Ardure]

I never was angry enough at bioware to begin with... dont get me wrong I am not some blind fanboy.... ME3's ending i thought was a bit rubbish but the rest of that game was amazing... and i just kinda have it in my mind that ME3 ends when Shepard gets beamed up the special part of the citadel by the catalyst... If you think of that as the ending it is actually not too bad lol

As for DA2 I actually enjoyed the game because of the increased character development in the hawk protagonist... I liked how my character had a voice... Granted DA2 had some issues. The scenery got boring very quickly and it would have been nice to go somewhere new outside of Kirkwall. I liked getting to know a city and an area... but after the first act and a half it was not interesting anymore considering all the goons use the same hideout. Also the story was interesting but it was interesting in the way you read an autobiography... in terms of a greater story it kinda was lacking. Each act was its own story and they barely connected to each other.

And haven't played SWTOR.

All these faults in Bioware's more recent games just show they are human after all... it won't stop me from buying a new release of one of their games though I am hoping they do step their story writing up a notch in terms of endings and continuity.

 

[Setch Dreskar]

Sorry but ya, the people that made those original games we BioWare, this is EA BioWare, which actually makes a large difference, that company that made great games is gone mainly because EA wants to use BioWare's old good will to shine up its image. This is all just my opinion but ya, this has happened before to more companies under EA's 'care' so I will just leave them be, if they surprise me then great if not well I can't be more disappointed then not caring.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

His idea for the ending got dummied out, the Starchild was the brainchild of Casey Hudson.

Yeah sandbox is the inevitable home of Origin if I ever use it, that or cracking it entirely.
(Which is of course illegal and something I will never do)

Well that's unfortunate, I would like to have known what the original ending was supposed to be.

Running Origin in Sandbox isn't so bad, once you get past the tweaking necessary to allow games to function.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

His idea for the ending got dummied out, the Starchild was the brainchild of Casey Hudson.

Yeah sandbox is the inevitable home of Origin if I ever use it, that or cracking it entirely.
(Which is of course illegal and something I will never do)

Well that's unfortunate, I would like to have known what the original ending was supposed to be.

Running Origin in Sandbox isn't so bad, once you get past the tweaking necessary to allow games to function.

Drew Karyshyn revealed some of it, it linked back to Dark Energy.

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/17086/mass-effect-writer-drew-karpyshyn-reveals-original-mass-effect-3-endings

REcaptcha: weylan yutani

 

[hazabaza1]

Their games don't reuse the same engine for 15 years, unlike Valve.

BioWare is the only game company that has a shot of making that hypothetical "Perfect Game" everyone likes to talk about.

Yeah because the source engine is terribly buggy, looks horrible, doesn't do what it's supposed to do, has no amazing fan made games/mods coming from it. Oh and because ME:3 looks so freaking amazing for a console port.

Console port? I don't follow.

Just because you didn't play it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

No, what I meant is, I don't understand what you mean by 'console port.'

I'm guessing he meant that it was clearly designed for consoles and then ported over to the PC.

 

[TheCaptain]

Done and done.

They only moment I liked them any less was right after my first ME3 playthrough. I still don't like the writing that happened there during the last 15 minutes of the game, but they've done a nice thing with the EC (which doesn't fix the overall problem I had with the resolution of the story, but pretty much fixed the emotional connection to the game) and they generally treat their player base pretty good.

Then again, I liked DA2 and SWTOR, so I'm probably too easy to please ;-)

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Drew Karyshyn revealed some of it, it linked back to Dark Energy.

Huh, I've been wondering where they were going with that whole dark energy thing.

Confusing as hell though; How was humanities genetic diversity (biology) supposed to solve a physics problem? Why didn't the Reapers just ask, given the stakes the odds of saying Yes were favourable. The whole "salvation through destruction" is kinda at odds with this.

There's about a hundred other question I would ask there.

 

[saintdane05]

We should forgive them. They make lightsabers!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/07/23/bioware-artist-recreates-obi-wans-lightsaber/

 

[Don Reba]

Why didn't the Reapers just ask, given the stakes the odds of saying Yes were favourable.

They are very shy space monsters.

 

[Signa]

Not that I really care any two ways about Bioware, but if I did, I'd still hate them because they are now EA. Everything they have done to gain ire from their fans is something EA told them to do. Until that chain is broken, Bioware will just be a zombie of the company we used to love. A money eating zombie...

 

[Verzin]

speaking only for myself, Bioware is dead to me.
DA2 and ToR were the final straw for me.

They'll never be what they once were again. Old Bioware is dead, or might as well be, Bioware EA is all that's left.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Eh, maybe. Besides, I tend to blame EA more for Mass Effect 3's failures...