What is being homophobic?

[101flyboy]

Okay firstly let me clear up where I'm coming from, I'm your typical heterosexual male aged in his 20's. And I have a dilemma - you see, I absolutely love the sight of two women kissing or getting it on. It's rather arousing, if not simply plain damn sexy as hell.
But the sight of two GUYS kissing makes my brain have a fucking seizure. I can't help it.

I don't consider that homophobic. Women are generally damn good to look at. Two women making out is damn good to look at. I do not find men good to look at at all, even if they are making out with a total 9/10. So two dudes making out is...well...just as bad.

Personally, I've always been the belief that being homophobic is being negative in any way towards two homos (Fuck you, it's just short for homosexual. It's not a goddamn negative slur). Such as "I don't like those guys making out because they are gay." But saying "I don't like watching two guys making out because I'm straight." is not homophobic. You don't have anything against them for being gay, you just don't find them sexually appealing at all, since they are of the same gender.

Good point. You're right. But let's be real.............that's not what has been said by several people here. We've already heard homosexuality being "not normal", "unnatural", "disgusting", and one guy proudly boasting about denying legal rights to same-sex couples.

So it's true, there is a huge difference between preferences that are as a result of sexual orientation, and then preferences out of homophobia. The problem is most people with the "homosexuality is disgusting" or "two guys kissing is disgusting" mentality are actually homphobes. Not "I don't care, I'm not attracted to it". Of course you're not, you're straight. Being straight isn't the issue. You can prefer watching two women kiss, yet almost boasting about being disgusted with two men kissing.

 

[Queen Michael]

Disgust is a moral condemnation.

No. By that logic I'm morally condemning heart surgery, since it's gross to look at.

 

[101flyboy]

As flyboy mentioned ANY kind of irrational aversion towards PEOPLE aimed at gender, race or sexual orientation is not "alright". It has never been "alright", you don't get medals for "doing nothing about it" first of all because there's nothing to be "done about it" and if you think that NOT showing any aggression is worth any kind of applause you are horribly deluded. *Toleration* in general is VERY condescending and holier-than-thou attitude, because it implies that you LET them be whatever they are and that's sickening. At the end of the day you think you are "liberal" and "good" for tolerating gay people when that shouldn't have mattered in the first place for you to feel "transcendent".

Perfect, perfect, perfect. Everything in a nutshell. OK, good, you "tolerate" homosexuality. That doesn't make you an enlightened person. You still hold an irrational bias. You don't really accept homosexuality. It's not a good thing.

Acceptance is a mark of the mature mind, something most people apparently don't possess. How ironic, since we are born with no inherent revulsion to anything not deemed dangerous by our instincts. It is your own personal insecurities that cause your disgust towards male homosexuality drilled into your skull by other insecure people we call "society". All in all if you don't go harming people for petty prejudices then that's enough for them, the only problem left is the problem you have with yourself. If you think you are happy while having any kind of disgust for basic affection then all the power to you.

Your last statement hits the nail on the head. Do you really consider yourself at all even sane for getting convulsions if two guys kiss?

We live in 2013. Same-sex kissing is becoming a lot more common in our society. Hell, I read 22% of men had sex with the same sex in 2011. That's almost 1/4. So it's pretty much like, you better get used to it.

Homosexuality is not the problem. That has to continue to be drilled into people's heads until they wake up. The problem is not same-sex affection. Two men kissing isn't the problem. It is the negative attitudes surrounding it that many have.

 

[101flyboy]

Disgust is a moral condemnation.

No. By that logic I'm morally condemning heart surgery, since it's gross to look at.

No, it's gross to look up because it's gory, it's bloody, a person is being ripped up. Because heart surgery is connected to someone who is sick and the thought of heart sickness is scary, gross, sad, etc.

You're comparing a heart to human beings. There literally is no argument. First the comparison was to food. Then to old people. Now to heart surgery? LOL. The lengths people go to justify irrational bias.

 

[Stasisesque]

Disgust is a moral condemnation.

No. By that logic I'm morally condemning heart surgery, since it's gross to look at.

No, it's gross to look up because it's gory, it's bloody, a person is being ripped up. Because heart surgery is connected to someone who is sick and the thought of heart sickness is scary, gross, etc.

You're comparing a heart to human beings. There literally is no argument. First the comparison was to food. Then to old people. Now to heart surgery? LOL. The lengths people go to justify irrational bias.

How are the elderly not human beings?

 

[Something Amyss]

BUT if I saw the same guy engaging in something romantic...even something as simple as holding hands in a "we are obviously lovers" fashion with another guy...I feel the need to look away, something simply clicks in my mind and yells "OH GOD WHY DID I HAVE TO SEE THAT". An image of two guys kissing, even on the internet, makes me immediately get rid of that image as fast as my fingers allow me to spend spend the next few minutes removing from the shock of seeing such a thing, my mind desperately trying to trash that image into a virtual bin.

I know people are going to try and reassure you, but that's not a healthy reaction.

So it's not your thing, and that's fine. You don't find it appealing, that's also fine. You don't want to see it? Iffy. The above sort of reaction? Something's up.

Also, imagine how bad it would be for homosexuals if your assessment were true. They're constantly surrounded by this sort of thing from heterosexuals who have no taboo against PDAs, often more severe than what you're describing. Yet somehow, they seem to cope (most of them).

 

[Beryl77]

There's no right or wrong to this, answer changes whoever you ask. Some say you are, other say you're not and both answers are valid. It's word made up by us that encompasses psychological aspects we didn't consider when making it up.
I personally don't care about any of that or would prefer not to. You can be the most disgusting homophobic, sexist and racist fuck, I don't care. We probably won't ever be friends and I won't spend much time with those people but you can think whatever you want, as long as it doesn't affect those people. Too bad that reality doesn't work like that. In my books, not what you think makes you bad but your actions. If, for example, you're hiring people and don't hire someone because you don't want to see him kiss another guy, then it's not good. If, despite disliking seeing him kiss another man, you would still hire that person, well like I said, I couldn't give less of a shit then.
Of course it's not so easy and there's not a clear line here where it's good and bad. Also, like I said reality doesn't work like that and many will act on the things they think and believe.

 

[101flyboy]

I find two dudes kissing as appealing as myself kissing one in a romantic manner.

Projective disgust. You're imagining yourself in the role of the guy being kissed. Or you're in the position where you're associating same-sex affection to "gay". Which makes this point I'm about to make.........

This is not homophobia. This is simply a matter of personal taste. Just as much as someone could find anal sex disgusting or elderly sex disgusting they can find homosexual sex/PDA disgusting.

...........way more clear. Kissing isn't sex. The fact you brought up sex more or less outs you as someone who is projecting disgust on something that you have no real reason to find disgust in. You are talking about anal sex and how not liking anal sex is about personal taste, yet anal sex and sex in general isn't what's being discussed.

I don't want to be rude by saying something like "people like you are ______". But the disgust towards two men kissing is ultimately about you thinking about them fucking. And they actually BEING together. Not lovey dovey romance. But of them swapping spit, sucking cock and fucking each other up the ass. And you can't handle it.

You'll need to ask yourself why your mind jumps to that when you see two men kiss. You may not even realize it does. But if it didn't you probably wouldn't find something as harmless as a kiss disgusting.

You can dislike flamboyance without being homophobic.

Flamboyance? More blatant insecurity. So, when two women kiss or a man and woman kiss, are they being flamboyant? Flamboyance is relevant because? That's more of the "stop flaunting your faggotry faggots" canard. It's a defensive mechanism. I can't handle my internalized issues with homosexuality so you need to stop being flamboyant and flaunting it in my face.

If there are two males involved I can't help but think "how does that feel?" and be repulsed.

Projective disgust.

You're like the perfect representation of what projective disgust entails. The absolute perfect representation. Read up on it in an earlier post I made.

 

[Queen Michael]

Disgust is a moral condemnation.

No. By that logic I'm morally condemning heart surgery, since it's gross to look at.

No, it's gross to look up because it's gory, it's bloody, a person is being ripped up. Because heart surgery is connected to someone who is sick and the thought of heart sickness is scary, gross, sad, etc.

You're comparing a heart to human beings. There literally is no argument. First the comparison was to food. Then to old people. Now to heart surgery? LOL. The lengths people go to justify irrational bias.

I don't have an irrational anti-gay bias. I march in the Pride Parade, and I have made out with a couple of guys. (Though on my part, that was just one of those experimental things some people do.) I even have a yaoi collection. (That's gay romance manga with sex in it, for the Escapists who don't know.) I'm just saying that if you write that disgust is a moral condemnation, then you need to add that this is only true when it comes to gay people kissing. Otherwise it'll imply what I said.

 

[Something Amyss]

Well...homophobia is a "phobia," as in an irrational fear.

If you feel the topic creator's reaction isn't irrational, I don't know what to say.

Fear is the root of many things. Homophobia is called such because it has a root in fear/hatred. But not all actions called homophobic are immediately identifiable as driven by fear.

 

[101flyboy]

Disgust is a moral condemnation.

No. By that logic I'm morally condemning heart surgery, since it's gross to look at.

No, it's gross to look up because it's gory, it's bloody, a person is being ripped up. Because heart surgery is connected to someone who is sick and the thought of heart sickness is scary, gross, etc.

You're comparing a heart to human beings. There literally is no argument. First the comparison was to food. Then to old people. Now to heart surgery? LOL. The lengths people go to justify irrational bias.

How are the elderly not human beings?

What I mean is, it's not an identity. It's not an immutable state. There are many attractive elderly men and women people don't find "disgusting". When people consider elderly individuals "disgusting" it's based on a stereotype that they have skin wrinkles, they're less toned, teeth less fresh looking, veiny. Plenty of elderly individuals look as good as they did at 40 at 65. People don't find these individuals "disgusting".

With that said, it's not an identity, unlike gay. And it's not something where you AUTOMATICALLY denote someone as disgusting because they're old. And only because they're old.

 

[thejackyl]

There are several degrees of homophobia, honestly.

Me, I AM a slight bit homophobic, because of an event in my past, that I wont say here again. That being said, I am totally okay with gay people. My father is gay, my brother is gay, one of my best friends is gay, one of my supervisors is gay, and I don't have a problem with them as people. Their sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.

However, I've been kicked out of a club once for punching a guy in the face. I was there with my brother and his boyfriend, and I was sitting with one of our female friends, and this guy comes up and starts hitting on me. Okay, I told him sorry, I'm straight. That didn't stop him from hitting on me, I told him, I'm taken. Nothing, he started touching my shoulder. At this point I told him to stop touching me or I was going to knock out his teeth (Boy, that escalated quickly). Still nothing, and by this time he had put his hand on my junk. I slugged him in the face...

I also would do the same thing you did if I saw two guys making out, (I would do the same thing if I saw a straight couple making out). Not because I'm homophobic, but because I don't find the male body attractive in any way.

My main point is being grossed out by homosexuality is okay, actively disrupting two consenting adults is not, and neither is causing someone physical, mental, or emotional harm just for being different.

 

[squeekenator]

Personally, I've always been the belief that being homophobic is being negative in any way towards two homos (Fuck you, it's just short for homosexual. It's not a goddamn negative slur)

Except it totally is a slur, and you know it. That's why you're so forcefully and aggressively defending your use of the term, before anyone else even had a chance to call you out on it. And so what if it's just a shortening of homosexual? The etymology of a word is totally irrelevant to its use. ****** is just a slight modification of the Latin word for black, it's the history and usage of the word that make it offensive, not which word it was derived from. And frankly, as a straight person your opinion on whether 'homo' is offensive doesn't matter at all. You don't get to decide on behalf of gay people which words are offensive to them and which ones aren't.

 

[alandavidson]

OP, it seems like you have some soul-searching to do. It's a bit odd that it makes your stomach churn, but I don't honestly know if it's homophobic or not. Chances are, if you think the answer is, "yes" then it's probably, "yes".

I can't say I fully understand homosexuality. I think there are lots of really attractive guys out there, but I'm not sexually attracted to them (except Brad Pitt and Ryan Gosling).

On the same note, I can't tell you why I think girls are attractive. I just do.

And because I can't explain why I find a petite brunette extremely attractive, I don't expect any of my gay friends or co-workers to be able to explain why they are attracted to the types of people they are attracted to. They just are.

And that's fine with me.

 

[101flyboy]

Disgust is a moral condemnation.

No. By that logic I'm morally condemning heart surgery, since it's gross to look at.

No, it's gross to look up because it's gory, it's bloody, a person is being ripped up. Because heart surgery is connected to someone who is sick and the thought of heart sickness is scary, gross, sad, etc.

You're comparing a heart to human beings. There literally is no argument. First the comparison was to food. Then to old people. Now to heart surgery? LOL. The lengths people go to justify irrational bias.

I don't have an irrational anti-gay bias. I march in the Pride Parade, and I have made out with a couple of guys. (Though on my part, that was just one of those experimental things some people do.) I even have a yaoi collection. (That's gay romance manga with sex in it, for the Escapists who don't know.) I'm just saying that if you write that disgust is a moral condemnation, then you need to add that this is only true when it comes to gay people kissing. Otherwise it'll imply what I said.

I wasn't speaking in generalities, I'm sorry if you felt I was saying you hold such bias. But yes, disgust is, in general a condemnation in general. It doesn't have to necessarily be a moral condemnation. But it is a condemnation. It's a "this is WRONG" declaration. It's significantly more severe compared to merely not finding something appealing. No, you find it GROSS. You find it REPULSIVE. That's attaching negative connotations to something. It's making a judgment on something.

So yes, it does apply to heart surgery, heart surgery isn't considered "right". It's bad, it means someone has a disease. Disease is judged as wrong, as it is, not from a moral sense, but from the sense it's not supposed to be in human, we're not supposed to be sick, our bodies are ill, that's a bad thought. The thought is chilling. It's harmful. It's a negative.

Can that be said about two guys kissing? Homosexuality in general? Homosexuality isn't a solitary act. Gay men do essentially everything straight people have done in bed with slight differences.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Homophobia=Irrational fear of, aversion towards, discrimination/hatred of homosexuality/homosexuals.

Yes, Aaron, you have homophobic tendencies. You can be homophobic and not anti-gay. It is homophobia to be disgusted by same-sex kissing between two guys, hand holding. It is prejudice. Is it bigotry? No. But it's an irrational discomfort. There is nothing actually inherently disgusting about it.

Hit the nail on the head, this man.

Personally, I've always been the belief that being homophobic is being negative in any way towards two homos (Fuck you, it's just short for homosexual. It's not a goddamn negative slur)

Except it totally is a slur, and you know it. That's why you're so forcefully and aggressively defending your use of the term, before anyone else even had a chance to call you out on it. And so what if it's just a shortening of homosexual? The etymology of a word is totally irrelevant to its use. ****** is just a slight modification of the Latin word for black, it's the history and usage of the word that make it offensive, not which word it was derived from. And frankly, as a straight person your opinion on whether 'homo' is offensive doesn't matter at all. You don't get to decide on behalf of gay people which words are offensive to them and which ones aren't.

Yeah. I've always thought, if you have to defend your position to the people you're saying you're not offending or not biased towards, that probably means you are offending them and are biased towards them. It's like when people say "no offence". That usually means what you're about to say or have just said is incredibly offensive.

 

[DanDeFool]

If you are grossed out by the thought of kissing someone who is the same sex as you, you are a heterosexual.

If you feel that the sight of two men or two women kissing is something young children should not be allowed to see, but it would be okay for them to see a man and a woman kissing, you might be a homophobe.

If you feel awkward when two homosexuals display their affections for each other publicly, you're a heterosexual.

If you feel angry in that situation, or physically sick, you might be a homophobe.

If you can talk to a homosexual person without constantly thinking about their sexual orientation, you're a heterosexual.

If you don't want to be in the same room with a homosexual, possibly because you're worried about "catching the gay", you might be a homophobe.

That help?

 

[Abomination]

Projective disgust. You're imagining yourself in the role of the guy being kissed. Or you're in the position where you're associating same-sex affection to "gay". Which makes this point I'm about to make.........

This is not homophobia. This is simply a matter of personal taste. Just as much as someone could find anal sex disgusting or elderly sex disgusting they can find homosexual sex/PDA disgusting.

...........way more clear. Kissing isn't sex. The fact you brought up sex more or less outs you as someone who is projecting disgust on something that you have no real reason to find disgust in. You are talking about anal sex and how not liking anal sex is about personal taste, yet anal sex and sex in general isn't what's being discussed.

I don't want to be rude by saying something like "people like you are ______". But the disgust towards two men kissing is ultimately about you thinking about them fucking. And they actually BEING together. Not lovey dovey romance. But of them swapping spit, sucking cock and fucking each other up the ass. And you can't handle it.

You'll need to ask yourself why your mind jumps to that when you see two men kiss. You may not even realize it does. But if it didn't you probably wouldn't find something as harmless as a kiss disgusting.

No, I used it as an example because there are clear parallels. Physical affection between LOVERS is SEXUAL. Just because it is not sex does not mean it is not sexual. You will notice I also mentioned eating snails as an example, something people can understandably find disgusting but at the same time is completely culturally acceptable, and many are known to enjoy.

Two men having intercourse is something I am completely fine with, I just do not wish to witness it as it is a situation I would not personally want to be involved in. I do not want to watch someone who enjoys being whipped because I would not enjoy it. Nails on a chalk board, the person doing it probably has no problem but I will think back to how it made my nails feel and dislike remembering the sensation.

You can dislike flamboyance without being homophobic.

Flamboyance? More blatant insecurity. So, when two women kiss or a man and woman kiss, are they being flamboyant? Flamboyance is relevant because? That's more of the "stop flaunting your faggotry faggots" canard. It's a defensive mechanism. I can't handle my internalized issues with homosexuality so you need to stop being flamboyant and flaunting it in my face.

Not every homosexual is flamboyant. I know many homosexuals who find flamboyance to be annoying yet it is (sadly) always associated with homosexuality. Lisping words, over-excitement, having in a way akin to a "valley girl".

If there are two males involved I can't help but think "how does that feel?" and be repulsed.

Projective disgust.

You're like the perfect representation of what projective disgust entails. The absolute perfect representation. Read up on it in an earlier post I made.

Whatever it is supposedly called matters not. There is nothing homophobic or wrong about finding the actions of two humans unappealing.

 

[zehydra]

Of course, OP's not homophobic, he's just a straight male

Fun fact: A lot of women don't like seeing women kissing either.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

If you don't want to be in the same room with a homosexual, possibly because you're worried about "catching the gay", you might be a homophobe.

That help?

What if he just has a case of the not-gays?