Why Am I A Bad Person For Like Large Breasts And Sexy Nuns?

[DRTJR]

The reason people don't like Dragon's Crown sorceress's figure is because it's bloody stupid.

I find the Sorceress aesthetically pleasing and in no way stupid at all, and the Elf is realistically proportioned, the reason a lot of media has women with huge tracks of land is because a lot of men (my self included) find that hot, we all have our own sexual quirks like I can not find tanned women sexy at all but a lot of people do. So just life with the fact that a good number of people do in fact like that something you do not about a particular character.

Well, congratulations.

Now, Allow me to reiterate the part of my post you cut out:

Why can't I be annoyed that too many bloody games these days has their female characters designed to appeal sexually?

I don't WANT female characters that are tailored to my sexual quirks. I want ones that are actually characterized and treated like individual humans that are unapologetically their own being, not specifically changed to be alluring.

Giving me a lecture on "different people have different sexual attractions" (the least necessary lecture ever made on the internet, btw) misses my point entirely.

First off, not every game is going to focus on deep and meaningful characters. So for a game that has little to no story the character development department is going to be very lack luster. certain games will have the time and effort to flesh out & fully realize their characters, Dragon's Crown is not that type of game.

The reason I cut that part was because of how incredibly stupid it was. The characters in that game were made to appeal to everyone's tastes in physical beauty regardless of preference of partner.

 

[WindKnight]

There's nothing wrong with sexuality or the expression of it.

People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

I just wish people, in general, would get over the childish shame and embarrassment they seem to feel about this stuff. I mean, I bet everyone who posts in this thread is a consumer of pornography, I am, and yet those same people will act - in public - like anything sexualised is some heinous crime.

Nothing inherently wrong with liking stuff like that, or something catering to said tastes. The only problem as such is when a medium treats it as the only taste to be catered to, with the exclusion of all other equally valid tastes.

The reason I cut that part was because of how incredibly stupid it was. The characters in that game were made to appeal to everyone's tastes in physical beauty regardless of preference of partner.

to be fair, the artist was more concerned with exagerating old style fantasy art, which nonetheless meant the amazon and sorceress ended up a litte too analogous to how women in games are treated as a rule.

 

[Erttheking]

You're not a bad person for liking the cheap tittilation video games send your way because at least they have an abundance of interesting and/or complex female characters to compensate for the overwhelming amount of Tits McGee characters...

Oh, wait...

To be fair, there are not many interesting/complex characters...period. Even though there are on average many more male characters, the number of interesting/complex male or female characters are almost the same.

Yeah, that's kind of the problem overall. The writing in video games, on average, is kind of shit. This is just one of the many MANY symptoms, and it's a bit of a sore spot for many people.

With all due respect, whenever I see people saying this I get reminded why I don't play modern mainstream games, which is where that opinion that all games have shitty writing comes from. No where else. It's not like the entire Tales series, Earthbound, Myst, Final Fantasy 6, 9 and 10, Portal 1 and 2, Chrono Trigger, the MGS series, Persona, SMT, No More Heroes, Fire Emblem and dozens of other games and series have just vanished.

Writing in this medium only looks bad when people talk about AAA title on HD consoles and PC as far as I can tell.

It's like looking at summer block buster movies and saying 'this must be the best writing movies are capable of'.

I'm not denying that those game exists (Although I am of the opinion that Portal is a decent game that gets more praise than it should) it's just that in reality when put against all games that have ever been made, those games with good story count for 5% of all games at the very best, 1% or lower at the worse. Games have gotten very good at being fun, but when it comes to telling stories, Sturgeon's Law is very much in effect. Don't get me wrong, there are gems of story telling games that I will gush about for hours on end, but the majority of gaming still has a lot of work to do when it comes to story telling. I don't criticize them because I hate them, I criticize them because I see massive mines of untapped potential.

 

[Scarim Coral]

No you're not as I too like some eye candy. It just that some people thing the whole big boob or skimpy wearing women is kind of like sexualisation and also making us pig as in generalizing all women at thing to oogle at but we are not that stupid.

 

[lacktheknack]

The reason people don't like Dragon's Crown sorceress's figure is because it's bloody stupid.

I find the Sorceress aesthetically pleasing and in no way stupid at all, and the Elf is realistically proportioned, the reason a lot of media has women with huge tracks of land is because a lot of men (my self included) find that hot, we all have our own sexual quirks like I can not find tanned women sexy at all but a lot of people do. So just life with the fact that a good number of people do in fact like that something you do not about a particular character.

Well, congratulations.

Now, Allow me to reiterate the part of my post you cut out:

Why can't I be annoyed that too many bloody games these days has their female characters designed to appeal sexually?

I don't WANT female characters that are tailored to my sexual quirks. I want ones that are actually characterized and treated like individual humans that are unapologetically their own being, not specifically changed to be alluring.

Giving me a lecture on "different people have different sexual attractions" (the least necessary lecture ever made on the internet, btw) misses my point entirely.

First off, not every game is going to focus on deep and meaningful characters. So for a game that has little to no story the character development department is going to be very lack luster. certain games will have the time and effort to flesh out & fully realize their characters, Dragon's Crown is not that type of game.

The reason I cut that part was because of how incredibly stupid it was. The characters in that game were made to appeal to everyone's tastes in physical beauty regardless of preference of partner.

Well, it failed.

Also, I'm one of many who is starting to push back against no-characterization games, because there's so damn many of them. When all you want is a decent female character you can relate to, and all that anyone is talking about is Dragon's Crown and Dead or Alive, you... start to snap.

 

[DRTJR]

Well, it failed.

Also, I'm one of many who is starting to push back against no-characterization games, because there's so damn many of them. When all you want is a decent female character you can relate to, and all that anyone is talking about is Dragon's Crown and Dead or Alive, you... start to snap.

The Problem is that you are part of a very vocal Minority, Beyond Good and Evil sold poorly when it came out, and probably would if it came out today. Fem Shep runs are absolutely dwarfed by the number of Dude Shep in number of completed playthoughs.

The problems are numerous and none of them are quick fixes, It's harder for a man (Usually) to build a compelling narrative around a women then it is a guy because a large number of devs are in fact guys.
This will result in the protagonist being a guy because the dev-team is mostly guys. The females all being(or mostly being) knockouts because they're staring at them all day for each outfit with each lighting, so why not make them easy on the eyes? Even in games with Character Development, most if not all of it will be on our hero who is 99 times out of 100 is a dude.
And some genres aren't as conducive to deep narratives as others, I expet the RPG that takes 60-80 hours to have relate-able NPCs with their own dreams and aspirations, I don't expect to know anything about Hur Dur the Barbarian other then he wears a loin cloth and wields an axe in a side scrolling beat'em up.
You don't walk into Pacific Rim and expect Shakespeare, you walk into to see a giant robot punch giant monsters IN THE FACE! Let the games that exists to beat up orcs do that, other games are supposed to have deep and thought provoking stuff. So take measure of expectations and realize that Beyond Good & Evil 2 is never going to happen.

 

[lacktheknack]

The Problem is that you are part of a very vocal Minority, Beyond Good and Evil sold poorly when it came out, and probably would if it came out today. Fem Shep runs are absolutely dwarfed by the number of Dude Shep in number of completed playthoughs.

Then you'll excuse me if I'm a bit sore about the whole thing. Why the hell am I in the minority, if the gaming "community" is supposedly in the throes of fighting out its sexism issues? Have all our sexism threads gone to waste?

The problems are numerous and none of them are quick fixes, It's harder for a man (Usually) to build a compelling narrative around a women then it is a guy because a large number of devs are in fact guys.

I can't believe we're still going on about this. Unless the story is about womanly issues, such as periods or pregnancy, there's no adequate reason that being a guy would cut you off from writing a good story with a female protagonist.

Michel Ancel and Jacques Extertier didn't have issues with Jade.

Marc Laidlaw had no issues with secondary character Alyx in Half Life.

Erik Wolpaw brought us Chell and GLaDoS, one of which is one of gaming's great villains.

Rhianna Pratchett wrote Mirror's Edge and the new Tomb Raider, yes, but look at them good and hard and tell me what insights they gave us about women. Answer: Pretty much none, because their roles could have been filled by men without adding or losing anything (other than brand name recognition in Tomb Raider's case). There's nothing about the stories that you need to be a woman to "understand".

This will result in the protagonist being a guy because the dev-team is mostly guys. The females all being(or mostly being) knockouts because they're staring at them all day for each outfit with each lighting, so why not make them easy on the eyes? Even in games with Character Development, most if not all of it will be on our hero who is 99 times out of 100 is a dude.

Aaaaaaaand that's exactly what I'm getting tired of. That's my whole point.

And some genres aren't as conducive to deep narratives as others, I expet the RPG that takes 60-80 hours to have relate-able NPCs with their own dreams and aspirations, I don't expect to know anything about Hur Dur the Barbarian other then he wears a loin cloth and wields an axe in a side scrolling beat'em up.

And that's fine. But why can't Hur Dur's cliche love interest Mur Flirt actually where an animal skin, as opposed to just the paws over her naughty bits, and be generally shaped like a woman instead of a really expensive sex doll?

You don't walk into Pacific Rim and expect Shakespeare, you walk into to see a giant robot punch giant monsters IN THE FACE! Let the games that exists to beat up orcs do that, other games are supposed to have deep and thought provoking stuff. So take measure of expectations and realize that Beyond Good & Evil 2 is never going to happen.

In Dragon Crown's case, I walked into Pacific Rim and got softcore porn with robots punching monsters in the face.

That's why I don't take issue with Dead or Alive, at least it's not pretending to be more than it is.

You act like I take issue with Dragon's Crown as a game. I don't. Rayman Origins was six or seven giant barrels of fun, and there's no reason this one couldn't be either. But in Rayman, at least it actually tried to be flashy and interesting in a way that isn't so blitheringly irritating and vapid as "This woman has HH cups, commence staring". And don't tell me that wasn't something it was going for, or it wouldn't have put her in that dress and advertised her with that pose.

I mean, look at this. Just Google "Dragon's Crown", check the image search, and count the Sorceresses (for bonus points, toss in the Amazon). If this game intended to be anything other than a boob-centric leering romp, we've done a spectacularly bad job of portraying it as anything else.

 

[DRTJR]

Then you'll excuse me if I'm a bit sore about the whole thing. Why the hell am I in the minority, if the gaming "community" is supposedly in the throes of fighting out its sexism issues? Have all our sexism threads gone to waste?I'm pretty sure we're both of us are not part of "the average gamer." since they're probibly like "Heh the witch $#%$ has a Huge rack man." wilst we are engaging in mental rock'em sock'em robots.

I can't believe we're still going on about this. Unless the story is about womanly issues, such as periods or pregnancy, there's no adequate reason that being a guy would cut you off from writing a good story with a female protagonist.

Michel Ancel and Jacques Extertier didn't have issues with Jade.

Marc Laidlaw had no issues with secondary character Alyx in Half Life.

Erik Wolpaw brought us Chell and GLaDoS, one of which is one of gaming's great villains.

Rhianna Pratchett wrote Mirror's Edge and the new Tomb Raider, yes, but look at them good and hard and tell me what insights they gave us about women. Answer: Pretty much none, because their roles could have been filled by men without adding or losing anything (other than brand name recognition in Tomb Raider's case). There's nothing about the stories that you need to be a woman to "understand".You forgot Ayla, Tali, Morrigon, Terra, Cortana, and other great characters who are women, but for every Lucca you have dozens of Sophie(s) or Ayumi(s)(From X-blade) who are poorly characterized. And if memory serves me right Lara Croft Started as Indiana Jones but with boobs, so depth can be added after inception.

Being a guy is not a barrier per say, look at Hayo Miyazaki, most of his protagonists are female and superbly well done. But, most authors have the heroes of their stories be their gender even if the story has nothing to do with gender issues. It's more of a comfort thing than a barrier to entry. If my Literature professor taught me anything, it was that you can tell when something is written by a guy or a girl by some of the subtleties in focus and other things.

Aaaaaaaand that's exactly what I'm getting tired of. That's my whole point.I know if I were staring at the same women from 9 to 5, for months, I'd at least make kinda attractive

And that's fine. But why can't Hur Dur's cliche love interest Mur Flirt actually where an animal skin, as opposed to just the paws over her naughty bits, and be generally shaped like a woman instead of a really expensive sex doll?Felicia is buck naked, and a Nun.

But on a more serious note, Hammer from Fable 2 was well written and ugly as sin. Great character that was meant to be a friend and that's it. and as someone on the Lionhead forums after Fable 2 hit, they hated her with a fiery passion because she was fugly. So to placate the masses Mur Flirt is a knock out. It's sad and I left there because of that kind of lunacy.


In Dragon Crown's case, I walked into Pacific Rim and got softcore porn with robots punching monsters in the face.

That's why I don't take issue with Dead or Alive, at least it's not pretending to be more than it is.

You act like I take issue with Dragon's Crown as a game. I don't. Rayman Origins was six or seven giant barrels of fun, and there's no reason this one couldn't be either. But in Rayman, at least it actually tried to be flashy and interesting in a way that isn't so blitheringly irritating and vapid as "This woman has HH cups, commence staring". And don't tell me that wasn't something it was going for, or it wouldn't have put her in that dress and advertised her with that pose.

I dare say that's they point, they(The team behind Dragon's Crown) were going for a very Frank Frazetta style with all of the characters, and that how he (and artists like him) drew both men and women as hyper-sexualized characters. Not even Arnold looks like Conan

I mean, look at this. Just Google "Dragon's Crown", check the image search, and count the Sorceresses (for bonus points, toss in the Amazon). If this game intended to be anything other than a boob-centric leering romp, we've done a spectacularly bad job of portraying it as anything else.[/quote]Crucifing the game because of the inormiment amount of images of one of the more attractive characters whom their was a controversy over is like executing someone for jay walking. If the United Dwarfs of America said the Dwarf character was raisist and a controvery blew up because of that then He would be the most prevalent picture out their for a while.

 

[Talvrae]

Personally watching the sorceress in Dragon Crown only made me giggles, it's so ridiculous...

 

[MorphingDragon]

The idea that someone would label me as a bad person just because I have a certain sexual preference makes me angry.

Stay away from Tumblr then, otherwise you'll be mad constantly.

 

[Resetti's_Replicas]

If anyone said you were a bad person, it's not because of your tastes in women, but probably because you were talking about it at a time when you shouldn't have been

 

[Olas]

There's nothing wrong with sexuality or the expression of it.

People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

I just wish people, in general, would get over the childish shame and embarrassment they seem to feel about this stuff. I mean, I bet everyone who posts in this thread is a consumer of pornography, I am, and yet those same people will act - in public - like anything sexualised is some heinous crime.

Artists can create what they want, and people can be critical of said art if they want. Artists aren't and shouldn't be free from criticism.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

You're not a bad person by any means friend.

If developers, artists, and whomever creates a character that's fleshed out and filled with depth, emotion, and strong traits are praised a lot of times and helps a game stand out. However, most go the easy route and slap on characters who are overly appealing with their sex. It's quite a problem and though Dragon's Crown is stated to be a good game, the devs really didn't need to give the females such massive chests.

But at the same time, each to his/her own. I didn't help make the game, so I can't call what happens or what gets approved. However I can just avoid the game and never buy it period. I'm the type of guy who appreciates true passion through characters. For example, almost every character in Attack on Titan stand out. The female characters are pretty, but they don't need busty chests to stand out. Their personality, backstory, skills and overall nature is what makes them fantastic.

What if I don't like personality, backstory, and all of that? Just because you happen to like it you are telling developers they should include it, so the rest of us who don't like it have to suffer. It's like have an Arnold Schwarzenneger movie and saying the creators are terrible for making it only explosions and fighting, when it should be meaningful relationships, philosophical exposition and character development.

Some of us just want explosions.

 

[NoeL]

You're not a bad person by any means friend.

If developers, artists, and whomever creates a character that's fleshed out and filled with depth, emotion, and strong traits are praised a lot of times and helps a game stand out. However, most go the easy route and slap on characters who are overly appealing with their sex. It's quite a problem and though Dragon's Crown is stated to be a good game, the devs really didn't need to give the females such massive chests.

But at the same time, each to his/her own. I didn't help make the game, so I can't call what happens or what gets approved. However I can just avoid the game and never buy it period. I'm the type of guy who appreciates true passion through characters. For example, almost every character in Attack on Titan stand out. The female characters are pretty, but they don't need busty chests to stand out. Their personality, backstory, skills and overall nature is what makes them fantastic.

Are you really trying to criticise a brawler for having shallow characters? Really? This game's a throwback to old Dungeons & Dragons beat-em-ups. The characters don't need depth, they just need personality - which the Dragon's Crown roster has aplenty.

Captcha: on the ball. Thanks captcha.

 

[Ftaghn To You Too]

Yes, you are, as are all of those who are fans of large breasts. One day, there will be a great and righteous purging, probably involving nuclear fire, and only the noble small breast fans will remain.

Your day of reckoning is coming!

 

[Amir Kondori]

This hand wringing about the depiction of women in video gaming is in vogue right now, don't worry and just ignore any of the conversation you feel isn't worth anything to you.

I personally love that aethetic. I surely wouldn't want it in EVERY game, but I love heavily stylized art like this. The games are getting released and people are buying them, so just ignore the people who are jumping on a bandwagon because it brings hits.

That is really what a lot of this boils down to. The way this free web games coverage industry works is that you need a ton of hits from the right people to get top ad dollar per your 1000 impressions, aka "clicks". Have you seen the comments sections on articles that deal with this stuff? They blow up. It riles people and gets them reading the article, sharing it, commenting, etc. Once people get bored with a new "feminism in gaming" thread every week you'll see the frequency of these things go down.

Lastly, sales are what really matter to publishers. Remember the bust for Dead Island's Collector's Edition? Well when the "controversy" erupted online around it Deep Silver apologized for it. Then promptly shipped out the collector's edition with the bust included. So don't worry that things you love will disappear from gaming, for better or worse if it sells it will be offered.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

You aren't a terrible, but the game might be.

A key part of understanding this stuff is remembering that you can enjoy whatever you like. People enjoy violent, vile, racist, sexist schlock; it's just how it is. But you should always try to ask yourself, "why am I enjoying this?" It's not innately tied to your character, I'd take it - you don't define yourself as "likes large breasts" - but questioning what you like and why you like it is never a bad thing. Introspection.

We all have enjoyed something in the past that is "bad," for one reason or another. Whether it be something which is bad in a legitimately evil way - something sexist, homophobic, racist, misogynistic - or something that's bad in qualitative terms, like The Room or Troll 2. That doesn't make us bad people, and it doesn't mean our standards are low, either. It means we like what we like. A core tenant of all this equality stuff is understanding that, yes, some of the stuff I like is rather awful, but that's okay.

Same with the violence debate. I fuckin' love first-person shooters, but I ain't gonna shoot anyone in real life, right? Taste in fictional media doesn't work that way.

 

[Madame_Lawliet]

You're not a bad person for having an aesthetic taste or a sexual attraction to certain body types, and I don't think anyone's really saying you are, the debate on the Dragon's Crown thing as well as the Hitman controversy wasn't about people liking the aesthetic look of the characters in question, it was about the way women are represented in our hobby/culture.
The proportions of the character designs in Dragon's Crown were unabashedly pandery and hella sexualized, plain and simple, and in a vacuum that would be just fine, but they're not, and therein lies the problem. Human beings are not proportioned that way, it's simply a medical impossibility, I think the guys behind Dragon's Crown knew that going in and were going for something of a parody of the fantasy tropes the genera tends to revolve around, but the problem is that they played all the trailers and promotional stuff straight and that sent a very mixed message (plus that slap fight the character designer had with that journalist a while back didn't exactly paint them in the best of light)
Also, the absence of non-sexualized, non-steriotypical, non-pandery female characters in our medium makes it just sting that much more when you see something like this pop up into the collective radar. Now I'd really like to say that the majority of people most likely to realize the difference between the body of an actual girl and that which is displayed in video games/ Anime/ what have you, but I've been on the internet long enough to know better, so what we have is guys developing unrealistic standards of women, and young women developing unrealistic standards for themselves.
That right there is what this whole debate is about, not personal aesthetic preference or whether it is or is not "correct" to like something, hell I spend all my time on Tumblr so I happen to know from personal experience that many many feminists love them some large boobs, so no, you're not a bad person and nobody (who knows what they're talking about) is saying you are.

 

[A Weakgeek]

No. You are not a bad person.

Furthermore do not let your enjoyment to be bogged down by white knights and moral crusaders. Theres no reason for you to feel guilt over enjoying entertainment.

Leave the debating and arguing to people who are already incapable of enjoying it in the first place.

 

[NoeL]

I feel that my response has offended you and I, therefore apology in doing so. Just some things don't click with me but doesn't mean they're bad (my example is stated towards up above about Pacific Rim). Still... some people such as myself will be rubbed off if things are over-the-top like the women's designs in the game. But, do not let that stop you from enjoying the game and thinking it's considered a bad game due to my opinion. Besides, Castle Crashers is a beat em up game and I find it appealing but only because of the humor. Everyone's different and I again apologize if I offended you.

No offense taken (why would I be offended?) I just didn't think your criticism was particularly valid (i.e. the devs took the "easy route" by paying homage to a specific style of game). Having long-arse cutscenes or meaningful choices to develop character would only stifle the pace of the game and be ultimately detrimental. People just want to grab an eccentric character and start beating up some monsters.

Also, Pacific Rim sucked.