Why Am I A Bad Person For Like Large Breasts And Sexy Nuns?

[EternallyBored]

Hey, when i see the overlarge dicks of sexy muscled men pointing out of their pants and dancing around in front of my face, i'll complain no more!

Wait, isn't that a false comparison? Genitalia and mammary glands are two completely different entities. Wouldn't the proper comparison be between male genitalia and female genitalia or female breasts and male breasts? Of the former, I've only seen one example in games (male nudity in GTA IV) and of the latter I've seen considerable more exposed male pectorals than I've seen exposed female breasts in games.

No, just no, Male pectoral muscles aren't even close to the same thing as exposed female breasts, unfortunately there is no real close equivalent on the male body to the sexuality implied by breasts. Male pectorals are closer to an exposed midriff on a female, while breasts are pretty much right below genitalia on the list of things that imply sexuality.

The closest comparison for a male would be something like tight fitting pants that expose the girth or size of the male genitalia, since that also has no real opposite gender equivalent (camel toe is usually something joked about rather than being seen as sexy). An exposed or revealing butt (such as a thong or speedoes) might also qualify as close, it's usually seen as sexy in both genders and is a lot closer to the implied sexuality of female breasts (or at least a hell of a lot closer than a male chest.

There is no exact comparison between men and women when it comes to breasts, so there's no real way to compare the titillation of exposed cleavage versus anything on the male body. It shouldn't be a 1 to 1 comparison anyway since the general idea is to encourage developers to rely on using oversexualization as a crutch less often, not just to find some kind of female appeal alternative.

 

[Overusedname]

You're not a bad person for liking the cheap tittilation video games send your way because at least they have an abundance of interesting and/or complex female characters to compensate for the overwhelming amount of Tits McGee characters...

Oh, wait...

To be fair, there are not many interesting/complex characters...period. Even though there are on average many more male characters, the number of interesting/complex male or female characters are almost the same.

Yeah, that's kind of the problem overall. The writing in video games, on average, is kind of shit. This is just one of the many MANY symptoms, and it's a bit of a sore spot for many people.

With all due respect, whenever I see people saying this I get reminded why I don't play modern mainstream games, which is where that opinion that all games have shitty writing comes from. No where else. It's not like the entire Tales series, Earthbound, Myst, Final Fantasy 6, 9 and 10, Portal 1 and 2, Chrono Trigger, the MGS series, Persona, SMT, No More Heroes, Fire Emblem and dozens of other games and series have just vanished.

Writing in this medium only looks bad when people talk about AAA title on HD consoles and PC as far as I can tell.

It's like looking at summer block buster movies and saying 'this must be the best writing movies are capable of'.

 

[emeraldrafael]

I didnt think the sorceress' character was a big deal, at least not if youre going to say its alright for the knight and dwarf to run around looking like they do. Say what you want about how women are represented in games (I know its generally not very well) but it doesnt make it right say because the game will have a largely predominant gender audience that that gender characters can look they way they do because its the typical body fantasy.

I think as long as youre not saying all women have to look like that, or at least can admit that you like other designs where they arent competely disproportionate, then you're fine. and if not, then eh, who cares. as long as youre not putting someone down in real life for not looking like that and separating games from life then what should people care.

 

[BreakfastMan]

It's like looking at summer block buster movies and saying 'this must be the best writing movies are capable of'.

Oh thank god, I am not the only one who things the "writing in games is so much worse than everything else!" is a crock of crap. I had seriously wondered if anyone, anywhere else had ever thought of this point besides me.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

There's nothing wrong with sexuality or the expression of it.

People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

I just wish people, in general, would get over the childish shame and embarrassment they seem to feel about this stuff. I mean, I bet everyone who posts in this thread is a consumer of pornography, I am, and yet those same people will act - in public - like anything sexualised is some heinous crime.

Hey, when i see the overlarge dicks of sexy muscled men pointing out of their pants and dancing around in front of my face, i'll complain no more!

Bit cartoony, but BEHOLD!! "Mount your friends!"
http://youtu.be/g_3aNnKo_zc
Cartoony muscley men with flailing dicks that grapple eachother in an effort to come out on top.
I won't feel bad if it's not sufficient to change anything, but it seems worth mentioning since you brought it up. For the comedy if anything.

I was more comparing it to how women s breasts poke out and are grossly exaggerated, dicks literally poking out of thier pants is more like porn But keen!

Yeah, I got that impression. It's just the talk of muscles and flailing genitals got me thinking about that game.

Honestly I'm in a weird position on sexual appearances on women. I like it, but there's obvious limits on what I think's tasteful. Sex sells, but too much of a good thing is a bad thing, I'd say.
Unfortunately there's no way to temper the industry as a whole. They won't check in with eachother to see who's doing what so some make reasonble representations. That said, I'm willing to make some concessions about the T&A factor.

I still pine for women dressed smartly, capable, and brave, that we can call possibly call rolemodels to become better known, and more common in modern media, though. We definitely need to see more than a few this decade.

We definitely need more female protagionists in general. I'd like a variety of them.

 

[Sarge034]

Snip

You are not a bad person if you like these things. You are a bad person if you believe these sorts of things are how all woman should be in real life.

Personally I feel the boobs, especially the sorceress', are actually satire calling to light the "mandatory" requirements for female casters to have their boobs hanging out all over the place. I mean when they have separate physics engines for each one...

Sorry, got distracted. They... um... Yes, satire.

 

[Norithics]

Am I a bad person that I couldn't not read the thread title in a really thick, fake Russian accent?

 

[sweetylnumb]

There's nothing wrong with sexuality or the expression of it.

People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

I just wish people, in general, would get over the childish shame and embarrassment they seem to feel about this stuff. I mean, I bet everyone who posts in this thread is a consumer of pornography, I am, and yet those same people will act - in public - like anything sexualised is some heinous crime.

Hey, when i see the overlarge dicks of sexy muscled men pointing out of their pants and dancing around in front of my face, i'll complain no more!

Bit cartoony, but BEHOLD!! "Mount your friends!"
http://youtu.be/g_3aNnKo_zc
Cartoony muscley men with flailing dicks that grapple eachother in an effort to come out on top.
I won't feel bad if it's not sufficient to change anything, but it seems worth mentioning since you brought it up. For the comedy if anything.

I was more comparing it to how women s breasts poke out and are grossly exaggerated, dicks literally poking out of thier pants is more like porn But keen!

Yeah, I got that impression. It's just the talk of muscles and flailing genitals got me thinking about that game.

Honestly I'm in a weird position on sexual appearances on women. I like it, but there's obvious limits on what I think's tasteful. Sex sells, but too much of a good thing is a bad thing, I'd say.
Unfortunately there's no way to temper the industry as a whole. They won't check in with eachother to see who's doing what so some make reasonble representations. That said, I'm willing to make some concessions about the T&A factor.

I still pine for women dressed smartly, capable, and brave, that we can call possibly call rolemodels to become better known, and more common in modern media, though. We definitely need to see more than a few this decade.

We definitely need more female protagionists in general. I'd like a variety of them.

i tottaly agree! unlike Anita sarkesian, i'm not against women being sexy or violent or anything. However it annoys me when boob laden idiots are all we see of women, or the few female protagonists (which male gamers seem intent on holding up as the proof that gender issues dont exist) that are actually good, also happen to be gorgeous and perfect otherwise. Its just a hard standard to live up to and insulting at best. Variety is the spice of life! and if we could get sexualised men every now and again, thatd feel more inclusive as well.

 

[Overusedname]

It's like looking at summer block buster movies and saying 'this must be the best writing movies are capable of'.

Oh thank god, I am not the only one who things the "writing in games is so much worse than everything else!" is a crock of crap. I had seriously wondered if anyone, anywhere else had ever thought of this point besides me.

I kinda feel the same way sometimes, so thank you for saying that XD

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

My question is, are you guys saying that if I like women who have large breasts and/or are dress as sexy nuns that I am a bad person?

Not in the slightest, blame your culture for demonizing sexuality.

 

[K12]

I don't think that anyone is saying that people who get turned on by video game player models are immoral. The sexism issue is always a general rather than a specific problem.

The Dragon's Crown sorceress is simply the most egregious example of a general trend which is making people (female and male) uncomfortable.

Bayonetta and Dragon's Crown are an attempt to have your cake and eat it too, talk about being ironic all you want but you are still trying to market the game to men who will be erect the majority of the time they play. It's embarrassing to other people who want to play the game without distracting fan service.

In another context, where scantily clad female characters was the exemption rather than the norm Bayonetta and Dragon's Crown would even be an issue. The sexualisation would be funny rather than creepy.

 

[TotalerKrieger]

There is nothing really wrong with these characters designs, but they are seen as quite trashy by the average person. There is nothing wrong with making a trashy game that appeals to the lowest common denominator, be it exaggerated sexual traits or crass senseless violence. However, people are going label it as a "lesser" form of entertainment. If a movie somehow featured characters with such oversized breasts, most people would write it off as a really bad porno before learning much about it.

As a medium, video games are highly criticized by the general public and titles like Dragon's Crown serve to confirm many negative stereotypes surrounding gamers. Many gamers don't give a shit what anyone has to think of them but others want to see their medium grow and be taken more seriously. Too many games, even those highly acclaimed, feature one-dimensional female characters whose main purpose is to provide sex appeal. I would argue that most gamers who have passed puberty don't really appreciate such a juvenile perception of women and sexuality when trying to explore a more serious narrative or world. There is a time and place for everything. Ms. Tits McGee is an immersion breaker for games that are not marketed as softcore porn or parody. Perhaps Dragon's Crown has been marketed as a bit of both, but people have become quite sensitive to this issue so it was bound to receive some flak. Many are just getting sick of this sort of thing being so prevalent in the gaming industry. Time to grow up a bit.

 

[Phasmal]

It's a little annoying that you can't criticise these things without people who like them taking it as a personal attack.

You're not a bad person to like it.
You might be a bad person if you expect your status as the pandered-to majority to always be unchanged and unchallenged.

If it was a little more even, it wouldn't really be a problem.
But it's not.

Personally I'm keen on sexy elf guys. But if pretty much all male characters were sexy elf guys I might be craving a little diversity.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Yeah, I got that impression. It's just the talk of muscles and flailing genitals got me thinking about that game.

Honestly I'm in a weird position on sexual appearances on women. I like it, but there's obvious limits on what I think's tasteful. Sex sells, but too much of a good thing is a bad thing, I'd say.
Unfortunately there's no way to temper the industry as a whole. They won't check in with eachother to see who's doing what so some make reasonble representations. That said, I'm willing to make some concessions about the T&A factor.

I still pine for women dressed smartly, capable, and brave, that we can call possibly call rolemodels to become better known, and more common in modern media, though. We definitely need to see more than a few this decade.

We definitely need more female protagionists in general. I'd like a variety of them.

i tottaly agree! unlike Anita sarkesian, i'm not against women being sexy or violent or anything. However it annoys me when boob laden idiots are all we see of women, or the few female protagonists (which male gamers seem intent on holding up as the proof that gender issues dont exist) that are actually good, also happen to be gorgeous and perfect otherwise. Its just a hard standard to live up to and insulting at best. Variety is the spice of life! and if we could get sexualised men every now and again, thatd feel more inclusive as well.

Not that I'm a fan of Anita, but I don't think she's against violent women, just women being the victims of it, and powerless to do anything against it. She might be against the sexy part, though. I dunno if it's entirely against the sexy part, however. Even if she is, I won't argue against some classy, or sensibly dressed female protagonists.

Lets be fair, a lot of guy protagonists are hard standards to live up to, but even if we don't get to live up to our rolemodels entirely, male or female, we can still try, and aspire. And I feel it helps to have a rolemodel of one's own gender, so that's definitely a reason we need more female protagonists.

It's true, a lot of female protagonists are at least inoffensive looking among the most worthwhile rolemodels. Nilin is the closest I can think of with her facial scar to a blemished woman, and even then she's pretty good looking.

I agree it's annoying when people hold up a few examples of good female characters, and tell people complaining to shut up, more or less like there's no problems at all.
On a personal note, 'm not a fan of people holding up NPCs as examples of good female characters, either.
Gender Select games are something of a cheap cop-out when it's more meaningful to have a woman in her own game, IMO.

Insulting female representation, I can definitely see in more than a few cases. I mean there's room for them, but there's gotta be a decent balance against the not so insulting ones. That balance is pretty still out of whack, especially in modern releases.

It would be nice if we got some women focused games where guys are the NPCs, supporting at best, that get drooled over instead of the other way around in the western world.
Those games shouldn't have to be imports to say the least. They exist in Japan to an extent. My significant other imported one. Not a cheap rhomp, but a meaningful romance game. I forget the name. Had something to do with the Shinsengumi, and demons.
There's some market for it in the west if the industry would attempt to get them out there, and advertised. I mean the people trying to get people clammoring for more female protagonists to shut up say as much about the romance novel genre's market. <.< And it's not even a fair comparason as it's a genre verses all of videogaming.
Even with that, though I don't hear a whole lot about games like that. Advertisement can definitely make or break a game that's not a household name, and even then, a l;ack of advertisement can hurt sales.
If the game industry wants more money, it makes sense they'd grow their audience, and start inviting women to play along, and pander to them more than they are. Not exclusive pandering, but more pandering than women get as it is with meaningful, quality games.
Guys should still get the games they want, though.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Of course, just because of my preference to breast size, I'm considered a bad person automatically by the entire country of Australia since obviously no woman past the age of 18 can possibly have a, b, or c cups.

Oh please. Nobody thinks you're a bad person for liking small breasts. Strange, maybe for some, but not bad. This is a ridiculous proposition to begin with.

http://theweek.com/article/index/105766/australias-small-breast-ban


so even if you are over 18, if you look young, you are considered a child.

even more so, if you star in porn, with small breasts, while looking young, you are making child porn. regardless of your actual age.

I'm sorry, I stand corrected. I thought we had more common sense than that. But then again, the people being labelled as 'bad' in this situation are not people who just like small breasts, although they are casualties of political correctness, it's people who are into children.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

There's nothing wrong with sexuality or the expression of it.

People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

I just wish people, in general, would get over the childish shame and embarrassment they seem to feel about this stuff. I mean, I bet everyone who posts in this thread is a consumer of pornography, I am, and yet those same people will act - in public - like anything sexualised is some heinous crime.

Hey, when i see the overlarge dicks of sexy muscled men pointing out of their pants and dancing around in front of my face, i'll complain no more!

keep an close eye on their speedos...

Wow, I didn't know they could launch themselves like that! That's some pro-level playing!
And I didn't know they grunted! lol the game just keeps getting better!

When I can afford/be arsed to get 20 dollars worth of points *Shakes fist at the lack of lower point cards.*, I know where the first 80 points are going! To getting that game!

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

snip

And nor are female characters often the ones fighting monsters, but when they are, they exhibit ridiculous strength as well as being sexy, because being sexy for a woman is empowerment.

Uh huh, so by what authority are you speaking for all women?

It's empowerment for males too. As I say in the very next sentence more concisely, you can live like an unattractive person and have just as many options while being attractive if you want, but you can't be unattractive and have the same options as an attractive person. It is, all things considered, almost as objective a positive as being wealthy as opposed to poor.

There are things sexy women can do that non-sexy women find more difficult, and for a woman to be attractive is something that society, due to the nature of realtionships, values.

And just maybe that's a rather sexist aspect of society.

I don't think it's sexist. I think it came about through evolution, with females being more valuable by being able to give birth and also in a more vulnerable position as a result of being able to give birth and needing to court the best males, essentially meaning males were valued for what they could do whereas females were valued for how they looked as a predictor of ability to give birth to fit offspring. Being skinny in cases where it becomes unhealthy is a product of human society, but largely I think the ideal image of a woman comes from those primitive times. It's less applicable in society now, but still strong enough for a woman's image to be generally more important to males than her muscles/money/whatever embodiment of physical power and agency you want to substitute. Essentially I think if we started society again with the system first-world countries have now, we wouldn't have that bias, but we do, arbitrarily, because as a race we grew up with it. Bacially, I don't think it's sexist because it isn't orchestrated, and males are also held to societal standards around different attributes.

Male characters, it doesn't matter as much about the looks because they're largely appliances who just exist to kill monsters, but where male characters should have sex appeal as well, they do, unrealistically for their situation much of the time.

Appliances? Right so they never look cool and people don't at all put themselves into the character.

I didn't say that, in fact for the first part I said the opposite, and for the second part it is irrelevant because I often 'put myself' into female characters in cases where that is what the game offers.

 

[EternallyBored]

It's a little annoying that you can't criticise these things without people who like them taking it as a personal attack.

You're not a bad person to like it.
You might be a bad person if you expect your status as the pandered-to majority to always be unchanged and unchallenged.

If it was a little more even, it wouldn't really be a problem.
But it's not.

Personally I'm keen on sexy elf guys. But if pretty much all male characters were sexy elf guys I might be craving a little diversity.

I think you hit on the crux of one of the more frequent problems when this argument comes up, and the point where both sides tend to start just talking past each other. Too many people take any sort of criticism as a personal attack against something they like, and then start to lump everyone making that criticism in with the most extreme elements on either side of the argument.

It's tragic really that half the time it seems like both sides are merely just arguing at each other rather than with each other. One side isn't full of rampant misogynists, and the other has no intention of trying to prevent titillation from ever appearing in any future game ever again.

So no, OP you aren't evil for liking sexy things, but neither is the other side of the argument for being annoyed at seeing so many games use sex as a crutch to character and story creation.

 

[Phasmal]

I think you hit on the crux of one of the more frequent problems when this argument comes up, and the point where both sides tend to start just talking past each other. Too many people take any sort of criticism as a personal attack against something they like, and then start to lump everyone making that criticism in with the most extreme elements on either side of the argument.

It's tragic really that half the time it seems like both sides are merely just arguing at each other rather than with each other. One side isn't full of rampant misogynists, and the other has no intention of trying to prevent titillation from ever appearing in any future game ever again.

So no, OP you aren't evil for liking sexy things, but neither is the other side of the argument for being annoyed at seeing so many games use sex as a crutch to character and story creation.

Yep. I'm not bothered by people enjoying monster boobage.
It's just the lack of other types of characters that annoys me.
I really doubt the tits are going anywhere, and I have no desire to get rid of them.
Bit less over the top ladies, little more sexy guys*. We can find a balance here.

*And no, Kratos and Marcus Fenix are not sexy. They look like meat poop.

 

[lacktheknack]

The reason people don't like Dragon's Crown sorceress's figure is because it's bloody stupid.

I find the Sorceress aesthetically pleasing and in no way stupid at all, and the Elf is realistically proportioned, the reason a lot of media has women with huge tracks of land is because a lot of men (my self included) find that hot, we all have our own sexual quirks like I can not find tanned women sexy at all but a lot of people do. So just life with the fact that a good number of people do in fact like that something you do not about a particular character.

Well, congratulations.

Now, Allow me to reiterate the part of my post you cut out:

Why can't I be annoyed that too many bloody games these days has their female characters designed to appeal sexually?

I don't WANT female characters that are tailored to my sexual quirks. I want ones that are actually characterized and treated like individual humans that are unapologetically their own being, not specifically changed to be alluring.

Giving me a lecture on "different people have different sexual attractions" (the least necessary lecture ever made on the internet, btw) misses my point entirely.