WHY are used video games bad?

[JMeganSnow]

No, seriously. What's the deal? Is it just a money thing?

Imagine that you make a product that is IMMENSELY expensive to develop with TINY profit margins. Now imagine that your product is endlessly reusable, and other people, who contribute NOTHING to your costs, are re-selling your product and making big money off it. Not a fun thing to see.

Now, is this a reason to get *upset*? No--what the developers OUGHT to do, if they had any sense, would be to start buying back used games THEMSELVES and selling them again THEMSELVES. I mean, would you got to Gamestop if your copy of Fallout 3 came complete with a self-addressed, stamped envelope to let you mail it back to Bethesda and receive, say, $5? Would you go to Gamestop if you could buy used copies direct from Bethesda at a much-reduced price? (You might, if you were just planning on browsing--but I bet people would be happy to buy used copies from the development house if the devs threw in some extras.)

The ultimate problem is that game developers think they are in ONE line of business that operates ONE certain way and don't want to make any effort to capitalize on all the derivatives of that market. And then they scream when someone else DOES. Well DUH.

Of course, if they really hate the used games market that much, they could just go to a digital-only delivery model and resign themselves to the smaller potential market that entails.

But no, they're absolutely determined to maintain their current business model AT ALL COSTS.

 

[Kopikatsu]

No Offense

If Devs werent so worried about losing a sale to a used game...perhaps you should stop charging me $60 (+++ in other areas) for.....garbage...

or copypasta games (Madden/Call of Duty shit that gets released yearly)


Its sad that nowadays I label games as "Good,but not worth $60" and would rather wait and pay $20 used and not feel like I had been bent over and ream'd a new one for your mediocre parade...

Madden and Call of Duty sell extremely well. (New copies, even.)

Very few games make a profit, which is why companies hate to deviate from the working formula...so as long as people continue to buy the cookie cutter games (And they will), that's pretty much all you'll ever get.

 

[Mechanix]

No Offense

If Devs werent so worried about losing a sale to a used game...perhaps you should stop charging me $60 (+++ in other areas) for.....garbage...

What "garbage" games are you buying for $60? Last time I checked, it isn't hard to find some good games, especially with review sites all over the place. 99% of the games out aren't as bad as Rogue Warrior for example. Look what you can buy right now, LA Noire, Brink, Portal 2, Mortal Kombat...the list goes on.

$60 isn't asking for much. Games are expensive to make, and game developers and publishers need money to make more games. A movie is $10 for 2 hours of entertainment, a game can be 20 hours, or even 100s of hours, of entertainment. Games aren't going to sell for any lower than $60, or no profits are going to be make, period.

 

[FoolKiller]

I, personally, buy a few new games a year and a ton of used ones. What? It's cheaper that way!

I do exactly the same thing. There are very few games that I like to buy brand new. The rest I tend to buy for a lot less because, in my opinion, they aren't worth 50 or 60 dollars.

Another problem I have is that I have been burned by purchasing games brand new. I got Dragon Age right off the bat. I end up loving it but a year later, for less money and brand new, I can get all the content that is included in the DLC. This retroactively punishes the early adopter by having to keep spending lots on a great game.

My last problem is EA thinking that each year the new sports game deserves full price when there isn't a whole lot of improvements to the game, and in many cases, they fix what wasn't broken. Also, why would I pay to play a game online if I already pay for my internet and Xbox Live. Especially when they kill that game's server a year down the road?

 

[Klepa]

I remember hearing that some game developers are thinking of inputting serial codes for old games that need to be re-purchased every time the game is re-sold at a used game store. Oh yeah, there's no way that can backfire.

What you describe is essentially reality for PC games. They all have serial keys, which will be used to register your game online. After installing the game, you won't be able to use the same serial again, hence destroying the second hand market entirely.

Publishers will make you agree to a wall of text, which basicly states that you don't own the game, you only own the serial, ie. the right to use the service. If you owned the game 100%, you'd be free to do anything with it, including sharing it online. Publishers don't want this, for obvious, and understandable reasons.

This has 'backfired' indeed, and in a weird way. There are legitimate websites which will only sell you a serial, and nothing else. You're then left on your own devices to figure out a way to get the actual software. You've already bought the right to play the game (ie. the serial), so there's little reason to pay for the software, because you don't get to own it anyway.

 

[The Artificially Prolonged]

Simple greed from publisher, they got their money when the game was bought new, they have in effect traded their right ownership ilof that single unit for an agreed fee, they cannot have any say in what happens in further sales of that specific unit. The whole customers are only purchasing a license for software is really just a paperthin excuse for schemes duch as project 10 dollar. Also people who bought a game used properly will never have bought the game at all if a cheaper alternative was not availible, so how can that be considered a lost sale? As far as I'm concerned if a developer puts schemes like project ten dollar in their games, I'm not buying full stop, new or used.

 

[Adrian Madhog]

I need to know this. I buy used video games all the time. I have collections of old games from old systems, yet still I see developers getting mad about used video games and the fact that they're worse than piracy:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110171-Fable-3-Dev-Used-Games-Sales-are-More-Problematic-Than-Piracy

Is it just because people are buying and re-buying old copies of games? Do the developers want part of that cash? Are they that greedy that they sold the game once, now they want to sell the game again and again and again? I remember hearing that some game developers are thinking of inputting serial codes for old games that need to be re-purchased every time the game is re-sold at a used game store. Oh yeah, there's no way that can backfire.

No, seriously. What's the deal? Is it just a money thing?

It's actually more complex than that... it involves Gamestop and his monopoly in gaming distribution... you should watch moviebob's videogame related shows (the Game Overthinker) to better understand this controversy.

 

[spartan231490]

I need to know this. I buy used video games all the time. I have collections of old games from old systems, yet still I see developers getting mad about used video games and the fact that they're worse than piracy:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110171-Fable-3-Dev-Used-Games-Sales-are-More-Problematic-Than-Piracy

Is it just because people are buying and re-buying old copies of games? Do the developers want part of that cash? Are they that greedy that they sold the game once, now they want to sell the game again and again and again? I remember hearing that some game developers are thinking of inputting serial codes for old games that need to be re-purchased every time the game is re-sold at a used game store. Oh yeah, there's no way that can backfire.

No, seriously. What's the deal? Is it just a money thing?

It's not worse than piracy. It's bad because a customer gets the game without paying the developer. Piracy is bad because dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of customers get the game without paying the developer(per copy that is sold used or pirated). Yes, used games sales hurt the industries profits, but used games have been around since the NES, obviously not killing the industry. These are just fear-mongers who know that they can't stop piracy so they hope stopping used games sales will get them a small increase in revenue. side note, keep buying used because while it may hurt the developer, it helps shipping companies and retail. Guess who hires more people. guess who you should be helping out in the bad economy.

 

[escapistraptor]

Greedy?

If people were using my product, of course I would hope that I actually saw the money from each person using it. That's not greedy, that's called wanting to be paid what you are owed.

Exactly. Penny Arcade said it best: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/30/

 

[zerobudgetgamer]

I notice a lot of people talking about this subject like it's all only about the developers getting extra money from you. In truth, it's just a tad bit more complicated than that.

As others have said, when a game sells New, the developer gets some of the money from that, but when it's sold Used, they get nothing. Now, while this means that the developer gets no money from the purchase, they also don't get the knowledge that someone bought/liked their game. This industry is all about metrics, about finding what works/sells by making it, then putting it out and recording how well it sold. For instance, if a game only sells around 100,000 copies, but those copies get transferred around to ~1 Million players who all loved it, the developer only has metrics saying that 100,000 copies were sold, which would typically be a piss poor sales record for a game, so there becomes little incentive to continue with the mechanics or storyline that spawned the game.

This is why Used games are actually worse than Piracy. With Piracy, no one is profiting from the playing of the game. When you buy Used, someone profits, but it's not the people who make the games. And before you say "Oh, these companies are loaded, they can handle a loss or two," you have to realize it's that very mentality that's screwing us.

I don't know how many times it needs to be said, but it takes a massive investment to make a game, as much if not more than a major Hollywood movie, and no investor wants to put that kind of money into something without knowing there will be a return on their investment. Again, if you buy Used, none of that money returns to the developers/investors, and so chances are they either see anywhere from no profit to a minuscule-at-best profit from their games. This very event has become so common amidst the gaming world that developers have no choice but to piggyback and cookie-cut games based on "working" models, in hopes of getting a similar profit that the "working" game got, not because they have no ideas of their own, but because their investors refuse to let them try anything that isn't "certain" to be a success.

 

[thiosk]

Devs move focus to consoles to restrict piracy. Freak out when they realize that their format is sharable. Plan to adopt steam on consoles full swing.

As others have said, when a game sells New, the developer gets some of the money from that, but when it's sold Used, they get nothing. Now, while this means that the developer gets no money from the purchase, they also don't get the knowledge that someone bought/liked their game. This industry is all about metrics

An important note.

Ogre Battle and the original Final Fantasy Tactics comes to mind.

 

[Chelsea O'shea]

Greedy?

If people were using my product, of course I would hope that I actually saw the money from each person using it. That's not greedy, that's called wanting to be paid what you are owed.

finally someone with a rational viewpoint.

why people don't think the Devs deserve the money for the game THEY worked hard making is something i will never understand.

 

[imagremlin]

Making games is expensive. It becomes more and more expensive as graphics improve. Yet games have a natural retail value ceiling because in the mind of the consumer, they're "toys". So developers get squeezed.

They have raised the prices as much as they can, and have also tried to get more money from you with "special editions" that for the most part are the same game with a cheap knick-knack sold for a lot more.

That's why they have their eyes on the second hand market. However, that tends to ignore the fact that retail store pretty much survive thanks to the second hand market. It's also an uphill battle because the consumer feels its their right to resell the games they played, as well as buying used. No one who buys an used game feels that he/she has done something illegitimate or ripped off anyone.

Some developers argue that for other goods there's wear and tear. Say, an used car is very different from an new one, not so with software/games. But that's just whinging. When a game is just released, used copies are not cost effective (its like $5 off, I never understood why whould anyone buy those), so to buy used in a cost effective manner, you must wait at least a year. Even though the game is exactly the same a year after, something is lost. There is a social value to play the "current" game.

 

[DesertMummy]

Yes, it is a money thing. buying used games hurts the dev financially. That means they have less money. less money=worse game quality. And honestly, if you enjoy the game the devs should get money for making a good game. It is not greed, it is just them desiring money for doing a good job.

 

[imagremlin]

they also don't get the knowledge that someone bought/liked their game. This industry is all about metrics, about finding what works/sells by making it, then putting it out and recording how well it sold. For instance, if a game only sells around 100,000 copies, but those copies get transferred around to ~1 Million players who all loved it, the developer only has metrics saying that 100,000 copies were sold, which would typically be a piss poor sales record for a game, so there becomes little incentive to continue with the mechanics or storyline that spawned the game.

Not true. It's very easy to track which games are selling used. Just check which ones hold their value (as used) on your local retail store.

 

[Rath709]

Wait until car manufacturers start adopting the same attitude towards second hand goods as game publishers.

"What? You don't want to pay full price for a brand new, straight off the production line vehicle? You are killing our entire industry. Second hand car dealers are no better than... car pirates!"

Sounds far-fetched right now, of course. But if one industry is allowed to set a precedent, how long before the others domino after it?

 

[JET1971]

It's a strange phenomenon that when anyone mentions pre-owned games everyone says it's developers just been greedy but if anyone says piracy then the developers have a legitimate claim to that money. I'm not for piracy here but it would appear one person torrenting a game is equivalent to one person buying it preowned from a developer/invester stand point. Each gives the developer nothing and each is effectively preventing one sale of a new copy.

I agree with this statement.

 

[Bek359]

The simple problem the developers/publishers have is that every time one of thier games is preowned and bought again, they lose money because they dont get paid for the game being preowned, and the guy who bought it preowned now isnt going to buy a fresh one.

So yes, it is a money thing.

What's the difference between video games and cars? You don't see the auto industry bitching and moaning about used car sales. Why are video games so special in this regard? Give me a CONVINCING answer, please.

 

[imagremlin]

Greedy?

If people were using my product, of course I would hope that I actually saw the money from each person using it. That's not greedy, that's called wanting to be paid what you are owed.

finally someone with a rational viewpoint.

why people don't think the Devs deserve the money for the game THEY worked hard making is something i will never understand.

You can easily turn that around. What gives any company the right to tell me I cannot sell an object I bought with my own money (that I also worked hard for) and don't use anymore.

The industry tends to conveniently forget how many gamers sell their games to be able to buy the next one

 

[Gitty101]

There's nothing really wrong with it, but the developers don't see any money out of a used game so obviously they're gonna try and convince you to buy a new product, whether this is through dlc codes or activation codes is up to them. The larger developers (I'm looking at you EA) are actually limiting content to ensure they make money out of it someway (some new games have online passes that need to be used to activate online features. Used games don't and the code has to be bought from EA ).

So these days, just keep an eye out for the advantages and disadvantages of buying a new or used game...