Why do you like Obama?

[ffxfriek]

simple....i dont. hes pro choice...and many many other things...and he makes absolutely no sense watso ever

interesting that "pro choice" is such a pressing issue for you when there are so many other crises in the world right now.
fact is, there will always be women who choose to have an abortion, especially rape victims, whether it's legal or not. Pro-choice means having safe facilities and organizations that will actually talk to women about the choice they are making and present alternatives.
Pro-Life laws will lead to incarceration and underground, unsafe, uncaring abortions clinics.
seems like a no-brainer to me.

idc about economy because u cant eliminate debt and lower taxes at the same time..if anything thatll cause a bigger debt...weres the money going to come form??? the rest of the world thatll cause even bigger debt for the WORLD. ok thanks and i can go on and on and on about this forever so lets get this interesting

plz elaborate how

 

[yzzlthtz]

i'll tolerate you fine, even have tea with you, but if you choose to turn a blind eye to realities that threaten our ways of life, i will call you daft.

What realities have I turned a blind eye on that threaten our ways of life? Just curious.

oh, the bit about "the environment looks fine from where i'm standing".
it's just such a frightening thing to hear someone say, given the state of our planet, the rampant extinction of species, poisons in the ocean, imbalance of carbon in our atmosphere and whatnot.

 

[TomNook]

I don't hate him because he's black, I never even said that. He's been judged because he is friends with Ayers, a man who bombed the pentagon and claimed he and the 9/11 bombers didn't do enough. He even announced his candidacy for senate at his house. he's friends with Farakan, head of the nation of islam, a terrorist organization. His pastor is racist, he hates whites, and prays death to America, and Obama is a deacon in his church, so he knows his pastor and his views...I don't give a shit that he's black...he could be whiter than McCain's hair I'd still think the man was evil...and no offense to you morning blues, but when the government decides to take over things that should be based on a free market, that's socialism...and that may fly in Canada but this is America, a country built upon the free market

See, here's the problem: you don't want a real conversation.

If you wanted a real conversation you'd read up on some of this stuff for ten minutes instead of just repeating it indiscriminately.

There's no point in saying anything good about Obama because you will respond with "Yeah, but what about ? Doesn't that kinda eclipse his good aspects?"

There's no point in saying anything bad about Obama because you will also respond with "Yeah, but what about ? Isn't that a lot worse than the thing you mentioned?"

-- Alex

Yup, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. This is a veiled attempt at a dialog when in fact the original poster's outlandish claim that he doesn't know a single good thing about Obama makes it clear that he's just a blind party follower.

I don't know, when he visited Europe and met with various world leaders?

Say we get attacked while either of them is in office. Who is more likely to respond quickly without having to ask the UN for approval? Who us more likely wait until we have UN approval? The message McCain sends out is that we aren't going to ask for permission to come find you and kill you.

Funny that you advocate for a candidate based on his "intimidation factor", and that your entire analysis of foreign policy seems based on being afraid yourself.

"What if we're attacked?!"

The irony is staggering.

First of all, thats not my only reason for voting for McCain, it is just ONE. Call me paranoid, but I really don't want another 9/11.

Don't want another 9/11? probably shouldn't vote for McCain then.

Wow, your long list of reasons and truly convincing argument have swayed me to the side of naive change mongering.

McCain could care less about the rest of the world. It's the "America first" policies, our hoarding of resources, our arming of cultures against one another, our poor treatment of other countries, and paranoia of other ideologies that has created enemies of our empire. Now add on the unbiased torture of terrorist suspects, the sloppy war in Iraq... McCain seems, to me, like he'll only continue this paranoia-inspired "America First" attitude towards foreign policy, while Obama seems willing to do whatever it takes to keep us safe, be it negotiation, be it infiltration, be it pressuring our allies, be it war.

EXACTLY! I want someone who puts us before them. As for paranoia of other ideologies, that sounds more like you than McCain. How in any way was the war sloppy?

McCain seems, to me, like he'll only continue this paranoia-inspired "America First" attitude towards foreign policy, while Obama seems willing to do whatever it takes to keep us safe, be it negotiation, be it infiltration, be it pressuring our allies, be it war.

McCain wants us safe to. I don't know how what you just said about Obama is any different from McCain.

 

[yzzlthtz]

simple....i dont. hes pro choice...and many many other things...and he makes absolutely no sense watso ever

interesting that "pro choice" is such a pressing issue for you when there are so many other crises in the world right now.
fact is, there will always be women who choose to have an abortion, especially rape victims, whether it's legal or not. Pro-choice means having safe facilities and organizations that will actually talk to women about the choice they are making and present alternatives.
Pro-Life laws will lead to incarceration and underground, unsafe, uncaring abortions clinics.
seems like a no-brainer to me.

idc about economy because u cant eliminate debt and lower taxes at the same time..if anything thatll cause a bigger debt...weres the money going to come form??? the rest of the world thatll cause even bigger debt for the WORLD. ok thanks and i can go on and on and on about this forever so lets get this interesting

plz elaborate how

please elaborate...
About abortion? If you make abortions illegal, women will still seek them out, especially if they are victims of rape or sexual abuse. Even if they are just very poor, frightened, and confused. They will. It is a choice women will make. They will have to find underground clinics with shady doctors. And these women could be arrested for their troubles.

If abortion is illegal, then clinics like Planned Parenthood that provide education about abortions and the alternatives will be shut down.
It would be a law based on ideology, a belief. The moral argument at the core of it is an endless one, and it will probably always be an issue no matter what the law currently states.

I am pro-choice. When my girlfriend and i accidentally became pregnant, we kept the child even though it wasn't what we planed for our careers because she, our daughter, was a living person. It's been wonderful.

I still feel it is vital that women can make the choice safely.

It is a shame that this issue is one that determines elections, since it really should have ended at Roe V Wade.

 

[Alex_P]

I would also like to point out that, over the last decade or so, the Republican Party has pretty much completely thrown away its old intellectual tradition in favor of a rabid fear-driven populism that knows neither sense nor compromise.

And that's why this neoconservative doesn't support Bush or Bush clones like McCain.

Ah, you're an old-timey neo-conservative. You've since had that word stolen from you, too. Now "neo-cons" are ideologically-pure college kids practicing to be Anne Coulter. Or something like that. Who the fuck even knows anymore?

-- Alex

 

[Brockyman]

McCain could care less about the rest of the world. It's the "America first" policies, our hoarding of resources, our arming of cultures against one another, our poor treatment of other countries, and paranoia of other ideologies that has created enemies of our empire. Now add on the unbiased torture of terrorist suspects, the sloppy war in Iraq... McCain seems, to me, like he'll only continue this paranoia-inspired "America First" attitude towards foreign policy, while Obama seems willing to do whatever it takes to keep us safe, be it negotiation, be it infiltration, be it pressuring our allies, be it war.

Uh... McCain is running to be President of the United States.... I'd think an "America First" agenda is quite fitting. Your short sighted and ignorant view that "McCain doesn't care about the rest of the world" is so stupid, that I almost didn't reply to it. I really don't understand where your hatered comes from, I guess that you're one of the people standing to benefit from government sponsered theft from those who've made a life for themselves and don't have to rely on the government for anything.

There is a BIG difference between "caring about the rest of the world" and "giving everything to the rest of the world" The United States gives more in the way of government funded and charity funded aid to other nations then any other nation on Earth. We help fight AIDS and Hunger in Africa, We empty our pockets when a disater hits another nation. We spread freedom and hope to those that have none. And we defended the world from dangerous and radical ideolgy such as Nazism and Communism. Have we made mistakes? You betcha, every nation has, but America has been a great force for good on this Earth then any other nation, and that's gotta mean something. Where would Europe be if America hadn't been there in the 40s?... just think about it.

SOCIALISM DOESN'T WORK! Why is it fair to take my property, that I earned with my life, sweat, blood, tears and time, via the police power of government, and to give it to someone who didn't earn it. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a small social saftey net, but my God people. Obama himself said that his plan to raise taxes wasn't to increase revenue for the government (b/c it has been proven that tax increases actually lower gov. revenues), it was to "make things more fair", and to "spread it around". Well, I'm sorry, but IT'S MY FREAKING MONEY AND PROPERTY, not the Federal Governments. If I want to help those that are worse off, I give to local, national, and international charities, who spend the money alot more responsibly then those in the government.

But it's not his right or your right to help yourself to what is mine... that's not selfishness, it's having true rights. I think that you should help your fellow man in a time of crisis, but that help should be more about giving them a hand up instead of a hand out!

 

[ffxfriek]

ffxfriek, I am so glad you are way too young to be able to vote in this election.

Although it is depressing that many people in America think like you do.

i thank michael savage for opening my eyes to the stupidity of the world

 

[Brockyman]

Wow. Do you people have to always play the freaking race card!

Wait, what do you mean by "my people?"

Sigh.... Whatever.

 

[TomNook]

Brockyman...I love you!

 

[Brockyman]

Sigh.... Whatever.

And another neandercon bites the dust!

Nope, I just learned along time ago to never argue with a fool. Your immaturity, and taking things out of context is the lowest form of debate, a tactic the most of us abandoned on the playgrounds of our youth, but I guess it's good to see not everyone grows up. Maybe we can continue the debate when you have a relavant point, and act like a grown up, not use more race baiting and childishness.

 

[Dalisclock]

I'm voting for Obama because McCain has completely lost my respect.

Palin pushed me into "Not going to vote for McCain but Obama still has to prove himself" territory because the more I learn out her, the less I like. That and the fact she was picked soley to pander.

The Ayers/"Obama is paling around with terrorists" BS pretty much pushed me into voting for Obama, no matter how much I may not agree with him. None of Obama's positions are as repugnant to me as McCain's decision just to forget the issues and play the "Terrorist Hugger" card. The fact that the right can't seem to think up anything better then "Obama was born in Kenya" and "He's palling around with Kenyan mass murderers" pretty much tells me the McCain campaign doesn't have anything to say. When one side stops speaking reasonably, and just starts spouting wild ass conspiracy theories with every other breath, the other side kinda wins by default.

 

[ReepNeep]

Nope, I just learned along time ago to never argue with a fool. Your immaturity, and taking things out of context is the lowest form of debate, a tactic the most of us abandoned on the playgrounds of our youth, but I guess it's good to see not everyone grows up. Maybe we can continue the debate when you have a relavant point, and act like a grown up, not use more race baiting and childishness.

Unless you plan on going into politics. McCain has run an absolutely filthy campaign in this regard, just like Bush 43 before him. The vast majority of the debunkable stuff about McCain has, in contrast, come from the fringe loonies of the internet blogs.

Also, there is no 'Liberal Media'. The only people who think so are so far to the right that they can't recognize the center. The primary bias of US mass media is sensationalism. News is a business, a commodity, and will be geared for maximum ratings rather than quality of information. Facts and even-handedness will take a back seat to entertainment value in such a system.

 

[Brockyman]

Nope, I just learned along time ago to never argue with a fool. Your inmaturity, and taking things out of context is the lowest form of debate, a tactic the most of us abandoned on the playgrouds of our youth, but I guess it's good to see not everyone grows up. Maybe we can continue the debate when you have a relevent point, and act like a grown up, not use more race baiting and childishness.

If you can't spell simple words like "immaturity," "playground," or "relevant," and create terribly antagonistic, and in general completely neadercon-ish posts which are at best poorly researched and at worst, complete misrepresentations of the truth, like these:

Spoiler

Short Answer: No
Long Answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Just think of it this way.. If John McCain had went to a church for 20 years where a Klan member preached hate towards black people(Racist), had bought his home from Jack Abramoff (lobbyest under investigation), and had started his politcal life in the home of Eric Rudolph or Timothy McVeigh (right wing domestic terrorists), not only would he not be running for president... he wouldn't be in politics!! Despite his service to the US.

But when Obama goes to a chruch for 20 years with Reverand (ha ha) Wright (Rascist), bought this home from Tony Resco (lobbyest under investigation), and started his career in the home of Bill Ayres (left wing domestic terrorist), and add in his assocation to Marxist leaders and teachings, and his connection to the group ACORN who is under investigation for voter registartion fraud! But for Obama, its all ok for some reason.

These things DO matter, at least they would for the Republican/Conservative candidate.

...I really suggest taking a long hard look at how highly you evaluate your own intelligence and maturity.

Because right now, all you're doing is openly welcoming my bemused scorn and pity. Oh and thanks for helping to drive my party right through the ground, by the way.

One: Yes, I misspelled some words in my haste. I'm sorry and have corrected them on the orignal post.

Two: I said nothing that was not true and well reasearched. Obama's associations are common knowledge, and they are important in judging who he is, and the contents of his characeter. I also pointed out what would have happened to John McCain if he'd had a similar past.

Three: I said nothing that was "antagonistic", other then in response to your childishness. Even in this post, you used larger words, but still couldn't come up with a single point other then a few spelling errors and calling me a "neandercon". (That's clever by the way... rolls eyes).

Criticizing Barack Obama IS NOT antagonistic, it's what all of us should do, for every candidate that is out there.

When the pastor of his Chruch, the Rev. (ha ha) Wright spewed like: the "US of KKKA" "Not God Bless America, God Damn America", that "America's chickens came home to roost" after 4000 Amercians died on 9/11 and "that the US government created the AIDS virus to kill Black people". Or Obama himself said "white man's greed runs a world in need" in his first book. Or when Bill Ayres said he wasn't apologetic about the bombs he planted, and wish he could "do more"

Only someone with a major brain disorder or EXTREMELY IGNORANT would truly believe such hate and shortsighted views. But, seems like you'd be a prime candidate for such an ignorant message.

 

[Ultrajoe]

Nope, I just learned along time ago to never argue with a fool. Your immaturity, and taking things out of context is the lowest form of debate, a tactic the most of us abandoned on the playgrounds of our youth, but I guess it's good to see not everyone grows up. Maybe we can continue the debate when you have a relavant point, and act like a grown up, not use more race baiting and childishness.

I've always thought trying to debunk your opponent by calling them immature or invalid was the lowest form of debate.

But i was never much for arguing.

 

[Brockyman]

Nope, I just learned along time ago to never argue with a fool. Your immaturity, and taking things out of context is the lowest form of debate, a tactic the most of us abandoned on the playgrounds of our youth, but I guess it's good to see not everyone grows up. Maybe we can continue the debate when you have a relavant point, and act like a grown up, not use more race baiting and childishness.

Unless you plan on going into politics. McCain has run an absolutely filthy campaign in this regard, just like Bush 43 before him. The vast majority of the debunkable stuff about McCain has, in contrast, come from the fringe loonies of the internet blogs.

Also, there is no 'Liberal Media'. The only people who think so are so far to the right that they can't recognize the center. The primary bias of US mass media is sensationalism. News is a business, a commodity, and will be geared for maximum ratings rather than quality of information. Facts and even-handedness will take a back seat to entertainment value in such a system.

I agree with your first statement. McCain has ran a horrible campaign. Even still, it's funny how the polls are still within the margin of error. Guess people aren't too sure aboutObama either.

I disagree with your second statement. When MSNBC hosts have "tingles" up their legs when Obama speaks, or when CNN analysits predict race riots if Obama doesn't win are just a few in a long line of examples of liberal bias. The fact that Obama's assocations with Ayres, Wright, and ACORN weren't covered by the main stream press until Palin mentioned them in the VP debate, when they've been known for years, is another prime example.

You are correct about the "sensationalism" in the News media today, with the coverage of non-news and wastes of time like celebrities, but there are a number of journalists that would rather create and pass along their own agendas the report the facts. Are all journalists like this... no. The late Tim Russert was a shining example of this. He went after everyone hard, despite party or policy.

There are some that have the same political views that I do that thinks EVERYTHING is controled by liberals, and I know that's not the case, but to say it's all "straight down the middle, all the time" is not true either.

Thank you for a good debate. I'm glad to see that someone here is able to make a valid point.