Why do you like Obama?

[WarpZone]

I'm voting for Obama because McCain has completely lost my respect.

Palin pushed me into "Not going to vote for McCain but Obama still has to prove himself" territory because the more I learn out her, the less I like. That and the fact she was picked soley to pander.

The Ayers/"Obama is paling around with terrorists" BS pretty much pushed me into voting for Obama, no matter how much I may not agree with him. None of Obama's positions are as repugnant to me as McCain's decision just to forget the issues and play the "Terrorist Hugger" card. The fact that the right can't seem to think up anything better then "Obama was born in Kenya" and "He's palling around with Kenyan mass murderers" pretty much tells me the McCain campaign doesn't have anything to say. When one side stops speaking reasonably, and just starts spouting wild ass conspiracy theories with every other breath, the other side kinda wins by default.

What I thought was interesting was what happened recently. They kept trying to push the energy of the crowd higher and higher at recent rallies, until people apparently started shouting "Kill the bum!" McCain would just stand there smiling and nodding. Maybe the microphone picked up the shouts but the candidate himself didn't hear them or whatever. But it sure looked bad.

Then he started defending Obama at his Town Hall meetings, coming out against the rumors that Obama's a muslim or a terrorist, and at one point straight-up telling the crowd that Obama's a decent human being and a good candidate and that his supporters don't have to worry if he gets elected. You can hear his supporters all going "What!? Huh!?" like the last thing they expected him to do was treat his opponent with respect.

That's the one problem with fear-mongering. It works great on the base, of both parties, because you're preaching to the choir. It just doesn't work when you're going after undecided voters. Undecided voters think critically. They do research. They're familiar with the other candidate.

This move actually raised my respect for McCain a notch, but between Palin's antics and the attack ads he endorses, it comes across as too little, too late. He'd have to literally pull all the attack ads and run a very straight and narrow campaign from now all the way up till election day before I'd even be able to take his arguments at face value again. He's just already lied to me too many times, in too many different formats. Does he think the people at home are too stupid to notice? Does he think we can't look stuff up? Obama's campaign has spun some of McCain remarks out of context, too, but nothing nearly so blatantly false, deliberately inflammatory, or outright bald-faced as the McCain campaign's repeated and clumsy attempts to link Obama to terrorism.

 

[Brockyman]

Nope, I just learned along time ago to never argue with a fool. Your immaturity, and taking things out of context is the lowest form of debate, a tactic the most of us abandoned on the playgrounds of our youth, but I guess it's good to see not everyone grows up. Maybe we can continue the debate when you have a relavant point, and act like a grown up, not use more race baiting and childishness.

I've always thought trying to debunk your opponent by calling them immature or invalid was the lowest form of debate.

But i was never much for arguing.

If you'd seen all the posts between him and I, I think you'd understand. He took several of my statements from my original post about Obama's associations out of context and turned them into racially charged statements, even posting a pic of Robert Downy Jr. character from
"Tropic Thunder" when I said "you people", which in no way had a racial overtone.

He has yet to make a true point, counterattack, or debunk a single fact of mine, only using racially charged and sarcastic comments, childish name calling ("neandercon") and accusing me of being "antagonistic" for bringing up criticism of Barack Obama and him. The only accurate thing he's said in our conversations was pointing out a few spelling errors I made while typing quickly and forgot to check over, and I soon corrected.

So, respectfully, I think it's perfectly fair to point out his manorisms and lack of true debate skills, has all he's done is.... nothing.

 

[Shivari]

ffxfriek, I am so glad you are way too young to be able to vote in this election.

Although it is depressing that many people in America think like you do.

Agreed, how people can get so wrapped up in issues like abortion and gay marriage and be gleefully ignorant and misinformed about all other issues is quite sad.

I agree with Eggo for once. Whoa.

 

[Alex_P]

even posting a pic of Robert Downy Jr. character from
"Tropic Thunder" when I said "you people", which in no way had a racial overtone.

I thought the use of that image was a clever deconstruction of whites accusing other whites of racially offensive speech on behalf of others while simultaneously ignoring the deep racism at the heart of their own thinking.

-- Alex

 

[Brockyman]

I'm voting for Obama because McCain has completely lost my respect.

Palin pushed me into "Not going to vote for McCain but Obama still has to prove himself" territory because the more I learn out her, the less I like. That and the fact she was picked soley to pander.

The Ayers/"Obama is paling around with terrorists" BS pretty much pushed me into voting for Obama, no matter how much I may not agree with him. None of Obama's positions are as repugnant to me as McCain's decision just to forget the issues and play the "Terrorist Hugger" card. The fact that the right can't seem to think up anything better then "Obama was born in Kenya" and "He's palling around with Kenyan mass murderers" pretty much tells me the McCain campaign doesn't have anything to say. When one side stops speaking reasonably, and just starts spouting wild ass conspiracy theories with every other breath, the other side kinda wins by default.

What I thought was interesting was what happened recently. They kept trying to push the energy of the crowd higher and higher at recent rallies, until people apparently started shouting "Kill the bum!" McCain would just stand there smiling and nodding. Maybe the microphone picked up the shouts but the candidate himself didn't hear them or whatever. But it sure looked bad.

Then he started defending Obama at his Town Hall meetings, coming out against the rumors that Obama's a muslim or a terrorist, and at one point straight-up telling the crowd that Obama's a decent human being and a good candidate and that his supporters don't have to worry if he gets elected. You can hear his supporters all going "What!? Huh!?" like the last thing they expected him to do was treat his opponent with respect.

That's the one problem with fear-mongering. It works great on the base, of both parties, because you're preaching to the choir. It just doesn't work when you're going after undecided voters. Undecided voters think critically. They do research. They're familiar with the other candidate.

This move actually raised my respect for McCain a notch, but between Palin's antics and the attack ads he endorses, it comes across as too little, too late. He'd have to literally pull all the attack ads and run a very straight and narrow campaign from now all the way up till election day before I'd even be able to take his arguments at face value again. He's just already lied to me too many times, in too many different formats. Does he think the people at home are too stupid to notice? Does he think we can't look stuff up? Obama's campaign has spun some of McCain remarks out of context, too, but nothing nearly so blatantly false, deliberately inflammatory, or outright bald-faced as the McCain campaign's repeated and clumsy attempts to link Obama to terrorism.

I do think it's fair to point out that they aren't trying to call Obama a terrorist. The point (and it is a vaild one) is that Bill Ayres was an important part of Obama's life, along with Rev Wright, and other questionable people.

What radical things did Obama learn from Rev Wright? Does Obama share Wright's hatred for white people and America?

What radical things did Obama learn from Bill Ayres? This is a man that bombed buildings targeting civilians, govt. officals and police officers. He is also non repentant for his actions, and wished he'd "done more". Does Obama share Ayres radical, left wing views and are they good for America?

These are fair questions to ask. These "people" helped shape Obama's life and thought patterns. The McCain campaign has gone OUT OF THEIR WAY to say that Obama isn't a Muslim, a terrorist, or a bad guy in general, but does he have the judgement and capacity to lead?

 

[WarpZone]

Hasn't the thought come across your mind that your arguments at this moment deserve nothing other than amusement?

All you have to do is grow up intellectually and actually post something worth replying to. I have little respect for those who babble out the same tired neadercon fear-mongering and populist fodder.

I'm pretty sure by "you people" he meant "you Democrats." Not black people.

 

[Brockyman]

even posting a pic of Robert Downy Jr. character from
"Tropic Thunder" when I said "you people", which in no way had a racial overtone.

I thought the use of that image was a clever deconstruction of whites accusing other whites of racially offensive speech on behalf of others while simultaneously ignoring the deep racism at the heart of their own thinking.

-- Alex

Well sir, you have no clue who I am or what I believe. There is no "deep racism at the heart of my own thinking", and if you'd read my earlier posts, that would be quite clear. I had no clue if Eggo is white or black, and frankly I don't really care.

If you'd read the post, you'd realize he started the whole race issue by using the statement

Yeah, those sneaky black people get away with everything!

My post was demonstrating that if McCain had similar right wing associations to Obama's left wing associations, that not only would he not be the Republican candidate, then the main stream media and others would knock him out of politics altogether.

Eggo, and one other person, decided to make it about race. In later posts I explained my position again, only to be answered with that picture.

The race card is so overplayed that people are afraid to say anyhting b/c it may label them as a racist. NOT EVERYTHING SAID IN THIS CAMPAIGN IS ABOUT RACE!!!! We are "race crazy" in this nation, and this world. We put so much empahsis on it that even the simple phrase "you people", which could mean anything "you liberals", "you conservatives", "you criket fans", "you Yahtzee sheep", ect.. into a damned racial slur. Grow up!

Plus, I didn't see the movie, so the symbolism was lost on me.

 

[LadyZephyr]

I'm voting Obama for several reasons, but the absolute sell for me was his record on the troops.

John McCain, despite being a veteran, has been horrendous on vet's rights. He's consistently voted against VA funding that is desperately needed to bring their system into the 21st century (takes to the process, an injured vet has to wait 8 month to a year to get their claims processed and god forbid the claim is appealed- then it'll take two years; it is unacceptable to treat our soldiers that way). McCain also fought against this year's watershed vets' legislation- Webb's 2008 GI Bill. McCain fought hard against its passage and once a majority vote was reached, he didn't bother to show up to vote. The next day, Bush thanked McCain for his "help" passing the bill.

To treat our veterans this way, to repeat the "I support our veterans" mantra over and over again and to assume no one will notice that the IAVA gave you a D ranking and Disabled Vet's gave you a 20% out of 100% disgusts me.

I vote for many issues and I would have considered McCain as a viable choice to vote for (despite being a progressive, I tend to find the conservative economic policies viable) until he tried to fuck over our veterans.

That cannot be forgiven. I'm voting for a candidate that cares for the people we send over to fight for us. Obama got a B from the IAVA and an 80% from Disabled Vets. He's my guy.

 

[Alex_P]

Well sir, you have no clue who I am or what I believe. There is no "deep racism at the heart of my own thinking", and if you'd read my earlier posts, that would be quite clear. I had no clue if Eggo is white or black, and frankly I don't really care.

Okay, you're reading too much into a joke.

Also, you're also mixing up the references. The guy in blackface saying "MY people?" is the guy with the buried racism, while the guy who originally said "you people" is the guy making the gaffe.

-- Alex

 

[TOGSolid]

Both Mccain and Obama are political hacks that will do this country a great disservice with piss poor leadership and terrible ideals.
Neither candidate will do a good job representing this country on the world scene, so I'm not sure why we're even considering them for the job.

 

[LadyZephyr]

...I'm not sure why we're even considering them for the job.

Because Russ Feingold decided not to run?

 

[Spinozaad]

There is more to foreign policy than impressing your allies. Small European countries such as the Netherlands have very few enemies. Obama just isn't a very threatening person, and thats one of the reasons I don't like him. McCain may not be very likable to you leftist Europeans, but he's an old angry white war veteran who was tortured, and thats what the enemies of the US would either be afraid of or grudgingly respect.

Perhaps not enemies (save for Taliban and Iraqi insurgents, perhaps), but a lot of antagonistic countries, those hostile to the USA or the EU. That said...
...I doubt any serious politician would fear a 72-year old man...

My point was more aimed at the US's business relations. I feel that Obama is more capable of bringing new goodwill to Europe and other regions than a Republican. Modern Republicans are, in our stereotypical minds, nothing more but silly Christian warmongering cavemen, who have yet to read any Rousseau or Voltaire. Why would we want to deal with that?

Obama on the other hand, is more 'like us'.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Both Mccain and Obama are political hacks that will do this country a great disservice with piss poor leadership and terrible ideals.
Neither candidate will do a good job representing this country on the world scene, so I'm not sure why we're even considering them for the job.

Thank you. Like I said, if their is a pot party candidate, I'm gonna vote for him/her just because when they say they'll legalize pot, I know they are gonna try their best to do it. This sucks that people who are supposed to be pillars of the community are less trustworthy than a pot head.

 

[Spinozaad]

"Democracy is leading the circus from the monkey cage"

 

[Brockyman]

Hasn't the thought come across your mind that your arguments at this moment deserve nothing other than amusement?

All you have to do is grow up intellectually and actually post something worth replying to. I have little respect for those who babble out the same tired neadercon fear-mongering and populist fodder.

See, once again, you say nothing. Next I'm sure you'll start talking about "Change We Can Believe In" but with no specifics! You're telling me to grow up intellectually? Someone that can't come up with a better arguement then this? Please, your just using broad genralizations.

Can't you even come up with another word for "neadercon"? I'd think I'd hear Nazi or Neo Con at least once from you today. What does that even mean? I'm a Neanderthal b/c I have conservative values like low taxes, strong national defense, a free market economy, and personal responsiblity? Too bad for you that I'm more of a libertarian... Gay marriage, and other "moral" issues are things the government doesn't really have a role in, along with healthcare....

You're just another whiny liberal, probably still in college (or lives in his mother's basement), that likes to think of themselves as a modern day hippe. Your little avatar "I love everything you hate" just shows that your little more then someone that likes to go with what the "cool, alternative" crowd says then form your own opinions, and just like to tick people off for your own amusement. A mission you failed at by the way with me. I'm not angry, in fact, I'm having a good time. The free exchange of ideas that make the nations that visit the Escapist so great!

At least many of the people here that are liberals can make decent points, debate with respect, and counter attack with some facts and reason instead of stupid pictures.

I love a good debate, and to bad I didn't find one with you.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

ffxfriek, I am so glad you are way too young to be able to vote in this election.

Although it is depressing that many people in America think like you do.

Agreed, how people can get so wrapped up in issues like abortion and gay marriage and be gleefully ignorant and misinformed about all other issues is quite sad.

I agree with Eggo for once. Whoa.

Well, I'm not going to say other issues aren't important, or more important in the long run, but abortion in particular is something I feel very strongly about. I simply feel like I cannot vote for any candidate who pushes to legalize this/defend it/make it easier to have one. I don't want to derail this conversation train or anything, but I'm just saying that's my primary motivation for not voting Obama.

From a certain point of view *fakes Obi-Wan accent,* Abortion is about the continued survival (or not) of the human race. What's more important than that? (And yes, I'm aware of the 'overpopulation' stance on humanity, I just don't really agree. It depends where you live.)

 

[WarpZone]

I do think it's fair to point out that they aren't trying to call Obama a terrorist. The point (and it is a vaild one) is that Bill Ayres was an important part of Obama's life, along with Rev Wright, and other questionable people.

What radical things did Obama learn from Rev Wright? Does Obama share Wright's hatred for white people and America?

What radical things did Obama learn from Bill Ayres? This is a man that bombed buildings targeting civilians, govt. officals and police officers. He is also non repentant for his actions, and wished he'd "done more". Does Obama share Ayres radical, left wing views and are they good for America?

These are fair questions to ask. These "people" helped shape Obama's life and thought patterns. The McCain campaign has gone OUT OF THEIR WAY to say that Obama isn't a Muslim, a terrorist, or a bad guy in general, but does he have the judgement and capacity to lead?

It's accurate to say that Obama met Ayres. It's also accurate to state that Ayres used to be part of a group that used small homemade bombs to cause property damage in protest of the war in Vietnam. It's also accurate to quote Ayres as saying he wished he could have done more to oppose the war in Vietnam.

There's a article about it here that actually examines the relationship between Obama and Ayres, and asks exactly the questions you're talking about: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html

My problem with the McCain Campaign's treatment of Ayres is that they try to use the facts to suggest that Ayes is still a terrorist (he did what he did to oppose the war in 'nam, turned himself in, served his time, and has since become a pillar of the community,) or that Obama has close ties with Ayres (he hasn't spoken with or emailed the guy since 2005.)

More than that, though, it's not just the Ayres thing that pisses me off. It's not just Palin's remarks about "palling around." It's not even the way they keep using Obama's middle name when referring to him.

What truly disturbs me is the way McCain's supporters react when one of them stresses "Barrack HUSSEIN Obama!" on the stump.

It's that noise the crowd makes when they hear the word "Hussein." It implies that the crowd hears the name "Hussein" and they think of Saddam Hussein. The suggestion that anybody named Hussein must be a terrorist. It's a ridiculous suggestion, of course. But what frightens me is seeing and hearing, with my own eyes, that the people in that crowd actually believe it. It's not just pandering, it's pandering to ignorance and racism.

Worst of all, it's not even accurate racism. This all goes back to the emails that circulated back in the primaries season, accusing Barrack Obama of everything from being Arabic to being a Muslim to not having a birth certificate. Ever since those first chain letters, the McCain campaign has been stressing the guy's middle name. That's why the Republicans' exagerration of the Ayres thing rubs so many people the wrong way. They see it as just another transparent attempt to try and tie Obama directly to terrorism.

I do respect McCain for telling the truth in recent days, but it's pretty obvious that his base believes the false rumors, and the McCain campaign has been dumping fuel on the fire of those rumors until very recently.

 

[AceDiamond]

Well after watching the monster McCain and Palin created out of their supporters (and good luck telling me that what they've said was justified), that's just one more notch on the "Vote Obama" side for me. What the Republicans have attempted to do is not the way to run a campaign, it is not the way to run a country, and it is not the way to act like a sensible person. So much so that, as mentioned before, McCain had to backpedal realizing just what he had done, and what that was was act like a bigger fearmonger than the Bush Administration were back in the '04 campaign.