Yahtzee vs. the JRPG

[ZippyDSMlee]

You have simplified RPGs with "un convoluted" game mechanics and even questionable story coherency, of which most JRPGs and actiony western RPGs like mass effect and dragon age fall into ,then there are the ultra RPG game thats really a film and not a game RPG game like FF13,and then you have an RPG that have something more in their level designs,something more in their character classes, something more in their play mechanics, something more in their writing and are just well made flaws and all like Fallout 1-2,Arcanume,Golden Sun 1-2,FF4,FF6 and FF9 even FFmystic quest,CHrono trigger,Breath of fire 1,2,and 4,Grandia 1-2, Wild arms 1 and 2,Dragon Warroir 2,3,4 and even 8,ect,ect,ect,ect we don't get many games like these made these days..........

 

[NickCooley]

Ahh Yahtzee. Half the fun of anything he does is watching the reaction of the fanboys. You can argue your point all you like the fact your putting in all this effort to defend a gods damn video game makes you a fanboy, or girl, gotta stay PC and such.

FFXIII has been particularly delicious in collecting the whiners. In this thread alone there's been some over the top melodrama from a fair few individuals (you know who you are) and one has to wonder why they get so worked up over what is essentially just software. Surely if you enjoyed it that much what Yahtzee says wouldn't bother you.

He's bagged out plenty of games I've liked and I still haven't shoe horned in a wall of text complaining how he's a "hack" or how he should "stop defending his review". Makes you think they don't like the game as much as they say they do. Are you trying to drown out that niggling voice in the back of your head by whining at the reviewer? I'm not sure, thats the only reason I can think of to explain why these people are so pissy.

But of course I'm trying to talk reason to the slavering fanboy hordes, which is like trying to drink the ocean through a straw. Oh well.

 

[Abriael]

Ahh Yahtzee. Half the fun of anything he does is watching the reaction of the fanboys. You can argue your point all you like the fact your putting in all this effort to defend a gods damn video game makes you a fanboy, or girl, gotta stay PC and such.

Actually the other half of the fun is seeing the reaction of HIS fanboys to the ones that dare criticize his rants. You know, you can argue your point all you like, but the fact that you're putting all this effort to defend a pseudo-journalist makes you a fanboy, or girl. Gotta stay PC and such

PS: Don't follow too closely the example of your Idol. Punctuation is important

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Ahh Yahtzee. Half the fun of anything he does is watching the reaction of the fanboys. You can argue your point all you like the fact your putting in all this effort to defend a gods damn video game makes you a fanboy, or girl, gotta stay PC and such.

FFXIII has been particularly delicious in collecting the whiners. In this thread alone there's been some over the top melodrama from a fair few individuals (you know who you are) and one has to wonder why they get so worked up over what is essentially just software. Surely if you enjoyed it that much what Yahtzee says wouldn't bother you.

He's bagged out plenty of games I've liked and I still haven't shoe horned in a wall of text complaining how he's a "hack" or how he should "stop defending his review". Makes you think they don't like the game as much as they say they do. Are you trying to drown out that niggling voice in the back of your head by whining at the reviewer? I'm not sure, thats the only reason I can think of to explain why these people are so pissy.

But of course I'm trying to talk reason to the slavering fanboy hordes, which is like trying to drink the ocean through a straw. Oh well.

I gave up trying to reason with fan boys 10 years ago...and their insanity has only gotten worse....

 

[guyy]

I'm still waiting for some reviewer/humorist to point out how silly it is that a game with "Final" in the title is now on (at least) its twelfth sequel with no sign of stopping.

I know it's a really obvious joke, but...it's so obvious that it seems unfair to ignore it.

 

[Jaebird]

That's usually the case with these games, for me. I tend to do a lot of things different than other people because I don't read into something or ignore it all together.

Do you use libra on the bosses (or librascope with those that have multiple targets)?

I do, but it doesn't really matter half the time when the enemy takes magical damage normally and physical damage is halved, plus the fact that they'll have stupid-high HP.

 

[SavingPrincess]

19, when she was basically dropped into Cryostasis.
Long story.

Haha yes! I love this. Best use of subtle (possibly unintentional) humor in the thread.

It is a LONG story. I find that people who refuse to play through a game (or really anything in life) and judge it on it's own merits tend to label the fans of said game as "fanboys" without actually thinking... "wow... some people actually enjoy this. This is fun to some people," and leave it at that. You can draw analogies that Final Fantasy XIII is like a hand on a stove, or a needle in the leg... but to the people who say "It gets better," they didn't hate it at first and then not hate it as much later. They probably liked it at first and then it got better later. I liked it fine at first... it grabbed me far more than Final Fantasy VIII & X ever did... and yes, it's getting better. There are quite a number of flaws and while I don't advocate postmortem developer chats as justifications for bad game design, the dev's at Squeenix thought the game would have been too hard and inaccessible to open up a lot of the battle mechanics that I feel are too tied down (being able to position your character, etc.). So... sad, but whatever... it's still fun.

 

[Sakurazaki1023]

Well, before I do anything else, I have to say that I hope Mr. Croshaw has a nice miniskirt on hand.
Vanille is 519 years old.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Vanille
So, yeah. The next video should be highly entertaining.
(Vanille's character's actually one of the best in the game. There's tons of character development. The whole damn game is based on the motivations of the characters.)

If she is 519, when did she stop aging? 15?

19, when she was basically dropped into Cryostasis.
Long story.

Well, I'll get the mini-skirt...

 

[NickCooley]

Ahh Yahtzee. Half the fun of anything he does is watching the reaction of the fanboys. You can argue your point all you like the fact your putting in all this effort to defend a gods damn video game makes you a fanboy, or girl, gotta stay PC and such.

Actually the other half of the fun is seeing the reaction of HIS fanboys to the ones that dare criticize his rants. You know, you can argue your point all you like, but the fact that you're putting all this effort to defend a pseudo-journalist makes you a fanboy, or girl. Gotta stay PC and such

PS: Don't follow too closely the example of your Idol. Punctuation is important

Ahh. Touche. I could go on to say I've posted only once whereas others are refuting all over the site constantly but to be honest I lost interest just after hitting quote. So yeah... Not sure where to go from here. Want a pineapple?

PS: Idol? Please I have some style. If the stuff that came out of his mouth wasn't funny I'd probably hate the arrogant burke. But that's neither here or there.

 

[UnusualStranger]

I'd like to see more games have the balls to have an apocalypse half-way through.

I have always advocated this statement about 6 (3?). If you got the balls to end the world and show some failure on YOUR team, you got some steel running in your veins.

That, and I no longer watch for JRPGs, because all too often I can't tell if I should give a damn or not. Are the evil guys really evil, or just running an empire and not pleasing everyone?

Am I really getting stronger or more experienced, or are they just giving me moves that just kill stuff faster?

Perhaps I'm looking at these games the wrong way. However, sometimes it just seems that the characters are far too weak and stupid to stand up and figure things out on their own.

That, and it seems JRPGs are turning into 50 hr. slug throughs. I understand leveling up and all, and getting cooler stuff, but I really don't have a good month or so to play a video game, damnit.

 

[SavingPrincess]

Urgg... threads like this always bring out the Japanophile fantards. I've even had people tell me with a stright face the "The bouncer" was a REALLY good game. When JRPGs statred being more a about spectacle, CGI, nonsenseical characters and insane plots (i balme you FF8!!) i ducked out of the genre almost entirely.

I balme Final Fantasy VIII as well... but that being said, while Final Fantasy XIII has its share of spectacle, it's definitely a step above Final Fantasy VIII & X in many respects. I just have a problem with people that enjoy this game being labeled as "Japanophile Fantards." It's not a "great" game, but it is good... better than most of the drivel out there today. It's kind of like the Halo of Final Fantasy's, good, even enjoyable, but nothing revolutionary or truly great.

 

[Velocity Eleven]

I guess I'll never understand the complaints about JRPGs

 

[Abriael]

Urgg... threads like this always bring out the Japanophile fantards. I've even had people tell me with a stright face the "The bouncer" was a REALLY good game. When JRPGs statred being more a about spectacle, CGI, nonsenseical characters and insane plots (i balme you FF8!!) i ducked out of the genre almost entirely.

In a world were Bioware can make me empathise so deeply with Thane or the crushing paranoia of GSC gameworld's zone can creep so subtly into my head the disconnected, overbown, melodramatic, colour-vomit of games like FF13 seem so very outmoded.

God forbid someone actually loving BOTH final fantasy XIII AND Mass Effect 2. What an outlandish theory!

You know, appreciating a genre doesn't autimatically mean having to hate the other, as much as some people here seem to think that they need to be MARRIED to one cultural approach to gaming and one only.

of course insulting everyone that happens to think differently from you ("japanophile fantards"? Just lol, grow up, please) reeeeeeally adds credibility to your argument,

Reeeeeally.

 

[feeqmatic]

Ahh Yahtzee. Half the fun of anything he does is watching the reaction of the fanboys. You can argue your point all you like the fact your putting in all this effort to defend a gods damn video game makes you a fanboy, or girl, gotta stay PC and such.

Actually the other half of the fun is seeing the reaction of HIS fanboys to the ones that dare criticize his rants. You know, you can argue your point all you like, but the fact that you're putting all this effort to defend a pseudo-journalist makes you a fanboy, or girl. Gotta stay PC and such

PS: Don't follow too closely the example of your Idol. Punctuation is important

Call me a yahtzee fanboy (cause i am a huge fan) But ive never cared about yahtzee's opinions on games as much as i do his ability to make good points about gaming in general while making me crack up laughing.

That said I have been a JRPG fan since being formally introduced to the genre with FFX in college. FFX/12 Tales Vesperia, Lost Planet, Blue dragon etc i have played the "best" of JRPGs in this gen and loved them despite (gasp!) not having Yahtzee's approval.

When i bought played and subsequently traded in FF13 over the course of 72 hours the first thing I thought was "God I hope Yahtzee rips this game apart" cause it would be the best way to have my frustrations about such disappointingly bad game. I wont go as far as to say that no one can have fun "playing" it. But it takes a true fan of FF if not a crazy/uber nerd beyond my comprehension to really like this game. The flaws in this game are insane

-The incredibly linear/repetative gameplay (yes i know that most games are linear in reality but few rpgs literaly set you on straight line corridors for 20 hours non stop)

-The unoriginal/cliche/annoying characters

-The lack of gameplay depth,control,variety

-The story that requires you to read backlogs in order to understand it (I vividly remember searching through trying to figure what the hell a Fal'C was)

Regardless of opinions of yahtzee as viable source for game criticism, you (and none of the other anti yahtzee trolls for that matter) have not actually pointed out any valid point that conflicts with his synopsis (hence the troll accusation). The game sucked somethin awful and made me go back to dragon age to get my RPG fix.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

19, when she was basically dropped into Cryostasis.
Long story.

Haha yes! I love this. Best use of subtle (possibly unintentional) humor in the thread.

It is a LONG story. I find that people who refuse to play through a game (or really anything in life) and judge it on it's own merits tend to label the fans of said game as "fanboys" without actually thinking... "wow... some people actually enjoy this. This is fun to some people," and leave it at that. You can draw analogies that Final Fantasy XIII is like a hand on a stove, or a needle in the leg... but to the people who say "It gets better," they didn't hate it at first and then not hate it as much later. They probably liked it at first and then it got better later. I liked it fine at first... it grabbed me far more than Final Fantasy VIII & X ever did... and yes, it's getting better. There are quite a number of flaws and while I don't advocate postmortem developer chats as justifications for bad game design, the dev's at Squeenix thought the game would have been too hard and inaccessible to open up a lot of the battle mechanics that I feel are too tied down (being able to position your character, etc.). So... sad, but whatever... it's still fun.

Uhg its not better than 6,9 or 7 they were fun and had a story that was not incoherent as much as cheap, FF8,X,12 and 13 is not only cheap but incoherent..... sure FF8,X and even 12 has some high points in their stories well FF8 mostly. When the game play goes to pot any flaw in the story or characters is that much worse. FF13 is on the same scale as FFX2 its not a real FF game...more a throw together quicky.... even japan is not that enamored with it an that says something right their.....

Urgg... threads like this always bring out the Japanophile fantards. I've even had people tell me with a stright face the "The bouncer" was a REALLY good game. When JRPGs statred being more a about spectacle, CGI, nonsenseical characters and insane plots (i balme you FF8!!) i ducked out of the genre almost entirely.

In a world were Bioware can make me empathise so deeply with Thane or the crushing paranoia of GSC gameworld's zone can creep so subtly into my head the disconnected, overbown, melodramatic, colour-vomit of games like FF13 seem so very outmoded.

God forbid someone actually loving BOTH final fantasy XIII AND Mass Effect 2. What an outlandish theory!

You know, appreciating a genre doesn't autimatically mean having to hate the other, as much as some people here seem to think that they need to be MARRIED to one cultural approach to gaming and one only.

of course insulting everyone that happens to think differently from you ("japanophile fantards"? Just lol, grow up, please) reeeeeeally adds credibility to your argument,

Reeeeeally.

I am not afraid to say if you like and buy watered down,shallow "popy" games you are helping the industry water down content and sell less of it for more money.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Hearing he liked Chrono Trigger (until boss fights started wearing) was a bit of a surprise.

If gameplay is enough to beat out his distaste of story, I'm almost curious as to what he'd think of Tales of the Abyss.

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

Isn´t "Beat it to the rush to give me money" simpsons joke?

Yes, it's "Be the first on your block to give me money!" I believe. I don't remember the episode or context, although I think it's Homer advertising the chance to catch chicken pox from Maggie.

EDIT: Now I remember- it's the story about Mozart (Bart), and after he dies, Mozart's father (Homer) runs grieving into the street and tries to sell death masks.

On topic: Starting a story in medias res is a good way to confuse me. I'd like a game that starts with your character... starting the story. This also goes for amnesia stories. I want to start out before anything game-plot-affecting occurs.

Yeah, I agree with this. It slightly bothered me about System Shock 2 (for about five minutes before The Many started speaking directly into my brain), and pretty much had me put Bioshock on hold for the best part of half a year before a certain major twist was "spoiled" for me and I decided I wanted to see how it would play out.

 

[acosn]

Yes, it sounds like you hyperbolically overstating things for controversy effect.
Or more because you're bent over so many people calling you on the fact that your "review" of FFXIII was misinformative on so many levels, that I'd define it more of a disjointed rant than anything else.

So be it, i will cave in and respond to your plea for attention.

*rubs eyes*

Am I reading this right? You're mad because he's doing his job? The man who's more or less demonstrated that there's maybe three or four games he's ever really liked?

I enjoyed and Enjoy Final Fantasy XIII, at the moment i'm savoring the open endedness that's chapter 11 fully, on my 117th hour of gameplay. And mind you, you're no one to say that I'm "wrong".

I never once felt, during the game, as I wasn't in control. Maybe because I wasn't so biased against it and I actually took the few minutes necessary to read the tutorials (you look like you didn't) and master the Paradigm Shift system, that is very complex, tactical, and requires a good deal of tactic and forward-thinking to use to it's full extent.

117 hours of game play? Didn't the game just come out a few weeks ago? I've played games in their entirety and not logged that much time after multiple beatings. The only game that's actually trumped this trend in my own gaming is one were that'd be expected after years of playing it.

Yet you want to accuse him of bias? Ok, shoot me. We're all biased. Trying to claim you're not means you're lying and for him to try to be unbiased would just lead to poor journalism.

And that's exactly it- tutorials. If you have to sit someone down and demonstrate something for them you've already done something wrong. The best games in the industry have very simple combat systems that you can effectively pick up and play without having to consult walls of text or simply be sat down and shown what to do. It's the difference between a game treating you like a child or treating you like you're there to experience something.

You say you're not in control? Really? What is "being in control" like? In games it normally means that the game puts a problem in front of you, and you have to solve such problem through input.
Even during the most linear parts, Final Fantasy XIII puts enemies in front of you, and you have to decide how to kill them. That's the very definition of being "in control".

FF13 is completely linear. They don't make any bones about it. There's no dungeon exploration, there's no pit stops in town, there's nothing really. It's more like it's a rail shooter except that it's in RPG format.

Yes, you can argue endlessly that "free roaming" RPG's merely let you have the illusion of choice, but even having the option to thinking you've done something trumps FF13. In all honesty if I wanted to play a game that treated me like I was reading a book or watching a movie I'd go do that.

And by the way, God forbid a game not forcing the gamer to mindlessly mash buttons randomly over and over! Tactical approach is the devil! I seriously wonder what you thought of Battle Chess...

I'd explain what "doing more with less" means but I have the feeling, and just from judging you in general I know it'd fall of deaf ears.

Funny, though, that you continue to rant about the alleged "fashion sense" of Final Fantasy characters, given that not counting Vanille's skirt, the characters in Final Fantasy XIII all wear some fairly normal and practical outfits. Makes me wonder if you paid actually paid attention during those meager 5 hours.
To be further honest, I've been wonder if you DID play those 5 hours, or simply mashed together a few misinformed opinions read somewhere.

Its more the fact that everyone has the style trends. Everyone has to have an extra belt. Everyone has to have hair style X, and wear shirt Y. There's a distinct Final Fantasy style out there. You typically see it creep up in games, but it effectively died in FF6. Now it's all pretty boys, brusque black men and "moee" women.

Seriously, do yourself a favor, Yatzhee, don't defend your "review" further. You're just digging yourself in deeper.
Your personal fanboys will like you anyway, though, don't worry. Now that you're feeling reassured and validated again you can move on to the next game you'll bash.

Isn't the person who's logged 117 hours already mocking someone (who's getting paid for what they do no less) on general literary hacker y and bias an effective case of the pot calling the kettle black?

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Isn´t "Beat it to the rush to give me money" simpsons joke?

Yes, it's "Be the first on your block to give me money!" I believe. I don't remember the episode or context, although I think it's Homer advertising the chance to catch chicken pox from Maggie.

EDIT: Now I remember- it's the story about Mozart (Bart), and after he dies, Mozart's father (Homer) runs grieving into the street and tries to sell death masks.

On topic: Starting a story in medias res is a good way to confuse me. I'd like a game that starts with your character... starting the story. This also goes for amnesia stories. I want to start out before anything game-plot-affecting occurs.

Yeah, I agree with this. It slightly bothered me about System Shock 2 (for about five minutes before The Many started speaking directly into my brain), and pretty much had me put Bioshock on hold for the best part of half a year before a certain major twist was "spoiled" for me and I decided I wanted to see how it would play out.

Mmmmmm medias res dose not bother me as much as crappy plots,sub plots and poorly done stories.... whch of corse I can ignore if the game is fun to play and for it to be fun to play I need alot of customization and neat things to toy with the less fun and solid equipment,skills,combat system,ect the less fun I have have.....

 

[Dilapsor]

I get such a kick out the people who come here and are surprised when Yahtzee rips a game apart. That's his schtick/job/gimmick... whatever you want to call it, and that is why people come to watch the reviews. Just as it is Leonard Maltin's job to love every movie he sees and give them glorious reviews an no fewer than 4 stars, it is Yahtzee's job to hate every game he plays (even if in reality he liked it).

As for FFXIII, I cant shake the realization that the Anime/JRPG cultures have become caricatures of themselves. It seems like as a genre, anime will never break the mold it created with highly stylized stereotypes. As it is, you can't have an anime/JRPG without the following cast:

1: Self-loathing main character whose snarky sense of humor is about as frequent as the blue moon.

2: Hyper-masculine urban warrior

3: Giddy schoolgirl who is proficient in hacking, spells, or some other arcane art.

4: Tough-girl rogue with a chip on her shoulder and a mysterious past.

Now I know that not all anime has this lineup, but WAY more do than do not. And this isn't even a BAD lineup as they characters usually interact in complex ways. Sadly, the formula gets real old very quickly and is such a staple in the genre that all developers and directors have done to modify it over time is to make the main character even MORE snarky or the giddy schoolgirl even MORE obnoxious. FFXIII is epochal in this trend, and I really hope for the sake of all Eastern animation and game design that we will see a new trend sooner rather than later.