Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

[TerraMGP]

you did not use my logic and I already explained why you did not, so sorry no. You missed my point, I TOLD you that you missed my point, and now your just harassing me because you apparently missed it. When you actually understand the hypocrisy I am pointing to we will talk.

I don't review games because for the most part, it makes you like this. I was thrilled he had some integrity but now its gone. If that's what you need well, go back to being a mewling little fanboy for him. I'm out. You people won't keep Yatzee honest then you just enjoy your little hits of game-bashing and feeling Indie and walking along blindly. At this point its the same thing as G4

....are you implying G4 once had integrity? I must have missed that.

Yahtzee isn't as bad as you make him sound, lighten up a little, okay? The heart of his reviews is still there, even if he is reviewing games he knows he'll hate just because people expect him to review them.

No they do not, but now he does not either. and I can't 'lighten up'. If he doesn't like them and knows he they have nothing to offer for him maybe he should not review them. Instead of catering to the fans he needs to simply just review what HE feels he should review and stop shifting his ideology to bash things simply because people want their proverbial mellon explosion

 

[VMerken]

He does not streamline it, he starts giving the people more of what they want at the expense of his initial integrity, he gives the clambering wannabe indie masses their meat so they will follow him.

And that's not streamlining because... ?

"At the expense of his initial integrity"... Question: did he have any integrity to begin with, or did he *seem* to have integrity because the first few videos were far from long enough to paint the whole picture?

Other question: in the context of video game "reviews", can one really speak of "integrity" to begin with? Due to the nature of the medium (video games), video game reviews are so subjective, so heavily based on personal playing experience, that I find it very, very difficult to speak of "integrity".

For example, I am quite specialised in "survival horror" games and played the snot out of most of them with decent proficiency, yet I cannot with good conscience claim that I have some sort of integrity to properly "review", "analyse" and "grade" survival horror games. The playing field is simply too diverse, my playing experience and way of playing a game not universal, etc ...

I find the Silent Hill series to be the best Survival Horror series on the market - does that make me a Konami sellout? Is my "integrity" compromised? I honestly do not know.

As for Yahtzee pandering to audiences, I simply don't agree with that.

He is pandering to a statistical average, aka the majority, The Average Gamer, the Gamer Which Maximises Click Click Click Traffic. Also, he is pandering to himself, trying to discover a modus operandi that works best for him. As such, don't expect him to be right up your alley 100% of the time .

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

Next week, Mailbag Showdown 2 part 1 of 30.

Seriously, this one was just off, only valid point I say he had was the ridiculous story.

Whatever, it wasn't as bad as smash bros and by the time I'm poting this there's like, a trillion words written down about he's the greatest person in the world and how he's a fucking retard.

*buys all his shirts*

 

[GeeDave]

Haha, I just had to quote this... you sir (VeryOblivious, indeed), are quite possibly the stupidest person in this thread.

And why is that?

Because for one, it seems like your reply was trying to state why Yahtzee was a sellout... and not really even making much sense with it. You can't call someone a sellout for being an iconic figure. It would make more sense to say that the Escapist themselves sold out by bringing in someone with such audience-hooking talent. Though I wouldn't advise stating that either... as it's just as stupid.

Also, mspencer82's "and that makes him a sellout?" question was rhetorical. The answer was NO, staying away from the countless 10/10 reviews from other sites does NOT make Yahtzee a sell out.

Basically, and in short. Your post was based off of a great missunderstanding on your behalf, it was also worded poorly, and had no real point.

Does that answer your question?

Edit

If he doesn't like them and knows he they have nothing to offer for him maybe he should not review them. Instead of catering to the fans he needs to simply just review what HE feels he should review and stop shifting his ideology to bash things simply because people want their proverbial mellon explosion

Erm... You do know that the escapist have hired Yahztee, yes? He doesn't do this for 'fun' anymore... it's his job. If you were a professional 3D artist and the lead came in and said "Hey, I need you to model that princess for me"... you can't just say "No! I don't wanna, I don't like princesses, I wanna model a viking"

That's just one analogy, I've got a truck load more, just incase the point didn't settle.

Ah! You've made me quote you again... that's it. I'm out.

 

[Churchman]

Is this common for any game yahtzee revues, or is the exceptional fanboy rage?

 

[TerraMGP]

He does not streamline it, he starts giving the people more of what they want at the expense of his initial integrity, he gives the clambering wannabe indie masses their meat so they will follow him.

And that's not streamlining because... ?

"At the expense of his initial integrity"... Question: did he have any integrity to begin with, or did he *seem* to have integrity because the first few videos were far from long enough to paint the whole picture?

Other question: in the context of video game "reviews", can one really speak of "integrity" to begin with? Due to the nature of the medium (video games), video game reviews are so subjective, so heavily based on personal playing experience, that I find it very, very difficult to speak of "integrity".

For example, I am quite specialised in "survival horror" games and played the snot out of most of them with decent proficiency, yet I cannot with good conscience claim that I have some sort of integrity to properly "review", "analyse" and "grade" survival horror games. The playing field is simply too diverse, my playing experience and way of playing a game not universal, etc ...

I find the Silent Hill series to be the best Survival Horror series on the market - does that make me a Konami sellout? Is my "integrity" compromised? I honestly do not know.

yes he did, because it is only a more recent event where he has drastically started to shift his views to oppose each game. Take a look and see. Watch the videos and see. The problem is the review industry is so corrupt nobody thinks it has ROOM for integrety, it does, but apparently it crushes it out of you to keep work.

Haha, I just had to quote this... you sir (VeryOblivious, indeed), are quite possibly the stupidest person in this thread.

And why is that?

Because for one, it seems like your reply was trying to state why Yahtzee was a sellout... and not really even making much sense with it. You can't call someone a sellout for being an iconic figure. It would make more sense to say that the Escapist themselves sold out by bringing in someone with such audience-hooking talent. Though I wouldn't advise stating that either... as it's just as stupid.

Also, mspencer82's "and that makes him a sellout?" question was rhetorical. The answer was NO, staying away from the countless 10/10 reviews from other sites does NOT make Yahtzee a sell out.

Basically, and in short. Your post was based off of a great missunderstanding on your behalf, it was also worded poorly, and had no real point.

Does that answer your question?

Hence why you don't understand my point. He is not a sellot for drawing people, he is a sellout for disregarding his own views and even becoming a hypocrite to keep people interested. He is a sellout for appealing to the lowest common denominator. If you really can't understand that after all I have said, your not reading and you just need to be quiet until you do well enough to REALLY agree or disagree with an understanding of it.

 

[VeryOblivious]

As for Yahtzee pandering to audiences, I simply don't agree with that. If he was pandering to me, he'd have given all of the Final Fantasies glorious praise by now.

That application of logic is flawed. He started being harsh, people like him being harsh. Why would he be nice to pander the audiences?

 

[Magugag]

you did not use my logic and I already explained why you did not, so sorry no. You missed my point, I TOLD you that you missed my point, and now your just harassing me because you apparently missed it. When you actually understand the hypocrisy I am pointing to we will talk.

Why don't you try adequately explaining it then instead of resorting to the whiny 'You don't understaaaaaand!' cop-out? As far as I've seen, I hit your point right on the head, and you've said nothing to refute that effectively. Second time you pulled that on me, by the way. Third time's the charm?

EDIT: Oh, and Very- may I call you Very?- I was just stating what he would do to pander to me as I'm the only audience whose desires I clearly know and as far as my selfish mind is concerned, the only one that matters.

 

[Proto Cloud]

Mmm. So you're just all show, I can dig it.

Nah, "all show" makes it sound like I'm somehow faking my personality or something. Honestly, I'm not that good of an actor.

Oh sir, but everyone is by nature an actor. Take a good look at how you act in different situations in life and tell me you're not an actor. Also I edited my previous comment.

I try to be genuine at all times, except for when I was working in retail....hell of a lot of acting needed there. I don't recommend it.

I noticed the edit. As I said, if you don't like it don't read my posts. Yet, here we are, conversing again. I do believe I have a stalker.

I needn't be a stalker to understand typical social patterns my friend. I work at retail right now, though I like it because I LOVE acting. (pretended I was british once). But I'll still read your posts for their "entertainment" value.

Anyway back to the matter at hand. People give this battle a rest, this really is getting out of hand and very dreary. It really is getting nowhere, as I have that nobody seems to have changed their mind. (except me about spencer) This is basically a lose-lose situation.

 

[TerraMGP]

as I have said time and time agian, he is a sellout because he keeps shifting his supposed view for the intention to bash the games. Hes not giving an honest review of the pros and cons as he sees them anymore. People wanted him to start crucifying games and so instead of staying the course and just being honest overall he has been focused more and more on just nailing every game to a tree so people can clap and cheer mindlessly.

Is that really hard to understand?

 

[Magugag]

You have somehow totally bypassed my point. I have been saying he is acting like a hypocrit for bashing games that, story wise, have the exact same elements as games HE HIMSELF has produced.

Hmmmm... That looks like the argument I remember a little more than the one you pulled out of your butt after it was squashed. In fact, you seem to SWITCH points every time one is countered. Fancy that.

His review points out flaws in games. Metal Gear Solid had flaws. He didn't like the type of game it was. Get over it. He even admitted it would likely appeal greatly to the Metal Gear Solid fans, which it apparently did as you so adamantly protect it from Yahtzee's truly vile desecrations. The true irony is the flip-flopping you do while trying to find some way to accuse Yahtzee of flip-flopping! ANYWAYS, it was fun debating with you as you were actually being pretty damned polite about it- you didn't even cuss as far as I saw- but I'ma go see the Hulk now and hope it doesn't blow.

 

[shadow skill]

You have somehow totally bypassed my point. I have been saying he is acting like a hypocrit for bashing games that, story wise, have the exact same elements as games HE HIMSELF has produced.

Hmmmm... That looks like the argument I remember a little more than the one you pulled out of your butt after it was squashed. In fact, you seem to SWITCH points every time one is countered. Fancy that.

His review points out flaws in games. Metal Gear Solid had flaws. He didn't like the type of game it was. Get over it. He even admitted it would likely appeal greatly to the Metal Gear Solid fans, which it apparently did as you so adamantly protect it from Yahtzee's truly vile desecrations. The true irony is the flip-flopping you do while trying to find some way to accuse Yahtzee of flip-flopping! ANYWAYS, it was fun debating with you as you were actually being pretty damned polite about it- you didn't even cuss as far as I saw- but I'ma go see the Hulk now and hope it doesn't blow.

That's been her point the entire time.....So what have you been reading? You don't notice how one could easily say get over the fact that she thinks Yahtzee is a sellout?

 

[XT]

oh god i laughed hard at the whole "oh christ not you cunts again from Metal Gear Solid 2"

 

[TerraMGP]

He bashed the story when he himself worte a similar one, which is a part of a bigger problem. The hypocrisy is PART of the flip flopping. His reviews used to be more than mindless bashfests and now he goes to the point where he bashes a game that is very much like ones he himself has made, even to the point of everything being amazingly confusing if you have not played every game, save for perhaps one game in the series being playable out of order. I see his work synch up with the MGS series and I realize he probably is an MGS fan and just does it to be contrary. He didn't use to be contrary for its own sake. Thats the point.

 

[asdaa]

i cried when i realized the ninja gaiden thing was just an ad.

kept waiting for it to become a spoof.

This is the best thing I've ever read.

 

[GeeDave]

Alright alright... one more, then I'm out!

as I have said time and time agian, he is a sellout because he keeps shifting his supposed view for the intention to bash the games. Hes not giving an honest review of the pros and cons as he sees them anymore. People wanted him to start crucifying games and so instead of staying the course and just being honest overall he has been focused more and more on just nailing every game to a tree so people can clap and cheer mindlessly.

Is that really hard to understand?

No, THAT is real easy to understand. The problem with it though... is that it's just your opinion, and you're spewing it out like it's fact. I completely dissagree with it. That doesn't make me right though, it's my opinion that the Yahtzee reviews have really not altered much since the very beginning. Sure he loved Portal and Psychonauts (any others?) and therefore didn't bash them, but have you not ever heard of "exceptions to the rule"?

Learn to type "I believe..." or "It is to my mind that..." or "I think..." and maybe this entire debate will stop.

 

[Magugag]

as I have said time and time agian, he is a sellout because he keeps shifting his supposed view for the intention to bash the games. Hes not giving an honest review of the pros and cons as he sees them anymore. People wanted him to start crucifying games and so instead of staying the course and just being honest overall he has been focused more and more on just nailing every game to a tree so people can clap and cheer mindlessly.

Is that really hard to understand?

I was reading that, my fine sir (or ma'am), in which that point is not addressed at all.

 

[VMerken]

yes he did, because it is only a more recent event where he has drastically started to shift his views to oppose each game. Take a look and see. Watch the videos and see. The problem is the review industry is so corrupt nobody thinks it has ROOM for integrety, it does, but apparently it crushes it out of you to keep work.

Okay, since now we're talking about the videos and content which you personally consider a loss of integrity, maybe we need to establish some common ground here.

Please share the video moment(s) where "Yahtzee lost his integrity", and why you think such is the case. If there are tons of them, just list Yahtzee's top five integrity losers.

Next, ask yourself, "Does this actually *prove* Yahtzee lost his integrity?", or, "Did Yahtzee have integrity to begin with?" and finally, "Does integrity even make sense in the context of video games"?

Edit: It's getting late over here in Belgium... I'm going to call it day... night!

 

[VeryOblivious]

Because for one, it seems like your reply was trying to state why Yahtzee was a sellout... and not really even making much sense with it. You can't call someone a sellout for being an iconic figure.

I did not. So you can read again my post and re-do all the logical connection necessary to make a valid argument. I didn't say "Being Iconic Figure <-> Sell out" (biconditional, in case you forgot). I meant that "To be a sell out, it is necessary to be an iconic figure." Not every iconic figure is a sellout, that's obvious. And that stupidity is an assumption of your own. In conclusion, you make the stupid argument, not me.

It would make more sense to say that the Escapist themselves sold out by bringing in someone with such audience-hooking talent. Though I wouldn't advise stating that either... as it's just as stupid.

Indeed it is stupid.

Does that answer your question?

Given the fact that you misunderstood a simple sentence, I fail to see why am I the stupidiest person in the thread.
Ah, yeah. Telling me directly I am the stupidiest is a little insulting. Remember, it's not necessary to make such statements in a debate.
Another note, english isn't my first language as you can see. You can help me getting better at this instead of being so arrogant.

Okay, since now we're talking about the videos and content which you personally consider a loss of integrity, maybe we need to establish some common ground here.

Please share the video moment(s) where "Yahtzee lost his integrity", and why you think such is the case. If there are tons of them, just list Yahtzee's top five integrity losers.

Next, ask yourself, "Does this actually *prove* Yahtzee lost his integrity?", or, "Did Yahtzee have integrity to begin with?" and finally, "Does integrity even make sense in the context of video games"?

You can see most of his work as a writer in his page. Fully Ramblomatic or something like that.

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

For me I think Yahtzee summed it up best by saying that if you're not already a rabid fan of the series, you aren't invited to the party. If the molasses-like pacing and (IMHO) boring exposition didn't do it for you in the first three games, this one won't win you around.