Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

SoulsGrave

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I'm surprised that Yahtzee didn't include any details in his review regarding the online play aspects of MGS4 which he should have done to make the review a bit more finalized. I was slightly disappointed because of that.
 

Eldritch Warlord

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SoulsGrave said:
I'm surprised that Yahtzee didn't include any details in his review regarding the online play aspects of MGS4 which he should have done to make the review a bit more finalized. I was slightly disappointed because of that.
I'm not, he believes online multiplayer on a console is "beneath" him, or something. All I know is he says he doesn't "give a flying shit about multiplayer" but gave a relatively deep analysis of class balance in Team Fortress 2.
 

Robix

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For once, i disagree with Yahtzee. This game is amazing
Also sounds like you were playing this game on the easyest level and didnt skip any cuts
but whatever that your problem. =P
 

Sandoggg

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Kshandamionreal said:
Gamer: Hey, what'd I miss?
Viewer: It's beautiful. Snake's having this moment with EVA.
Gamer: Ok, for how long?
Viewer: (looks at clock) I guess about 15min. Time sure does fly.
Gamer: O...k. Have you noticed anything else?
Viewer: Huh?
Gamer: YOU PUT THE CONTROLLER DOWN AND KICKED BACK! You've spent almost half an hour staring at the screen WITHOUT PAUSING.
Viewer: Whoa. So I did. And?
Gamer: AND you rented a GAME, not a DVD (movie.) As in, you rented a GAME to PLAY, not a movie that occasionally lets you zoom into cleavage or wet granny panties.
Viewer: But it's so pretty and involving!
Gamer: Pretty, yes, involving HELL NO. Two hours have gone by and we're still plugging grunts. In God of War, the Hydra and a mountain of undead would be long dead and those twins would've been done about 5 times over.
Interesting dialogue. The fact that you?re having a conversation with yourself during your playtime with MGS4 makes it painfully obvious that MGS is simply not your kind of game. I?d recommend sticking to things like DMC, Ninja Gaiden, or Dynasty warriors if you want to do nothing but fight things for a half hour. You can?t really draw comparisons between God of War and MGS. It?s like trying to compare a drama and a comedy movie.

Kshandamionreal said:
Once that mental issue died down, I noticed just like Yahtzee pointed out that the game kinda groans about letting you actually play it like it wants to gush its life story for the rest of the week, so I go back to shooting soldiers, killing The Pain, killing The Fear (without getting the infrared goggles,) resetting the PS2 clock to make The End die of old age and watching karma/Kojima scold me for KILLING DURING A WAR as The Sorrow brings back EVERY guy I slaughtered, intentionally or otherwise (because I forgot/didn't care about choking people out instead of throat-slitting.) The game eventually ends with one or two more cutscenes which now feel more satisfying since the game's over and you can restart with the Patriot gun, which has infinite ammo... yet the game/franchise DISCOURAGES killing EVERYONE even the mutant/supernatural bosses.
Yes, you are fighting during the cold war ? a war. On one hand, you are a spy trying to infiltrate an operation undetected ? if you get out of the God of War midset and into the MGS mindset you would not be tempted by the wide array of weaponry available. Yes, you are discouraged from killing people because unlike in God of War, it is not the point of the game. To get the best scores at the end of the game, you kill as few people as you have to.
On the other hand, people like you and me love nothing more than to fight soldier after soldier until forced to retreat to cover to get ready for another round. If they really didn?t want you killing anybody they?d have given you one weapon ? the tranq. I hope you can see that you should not be so angry about the fact that this is first and foremost a sneaking game. How did you honestly not laugh after seeing how long your river of ghosts was.


Kshandamionreal said:
Then there's the technicals. Minutes of loading and hour-long cutscenes on the PS3 sounds like a bad joke to anyone who didn't buy the big, black behemoth specifically for MGS4. The defenders say "Well you can skip the cutscenes!" which with any other game (ANY Resident Evil game) would be fine, but MGS has ALWAYS been about the story, hence the infamous "more movie than game" title its made for itself. I love a good story in a game as much as the next guy (ok, MORE than the average guy, but a lot less than a JRPG fangirl,) but when you can eat a full meal, go to the bathroom, come back and the cutscene is STILL going, it's too damn long no matter how great its touted to be. Save for the content and load times, the same thing happened in Kingdom Hearts, people fawned over the blissed-out Final Fantasy/Disney crossover, but when FOUR HOURS goes by before you're kicking Heartless/Nobody ass, it has been WAY too long. Again, Yahtzee clearly pointed out how Kojima wants to use gaming as a new medium for storytelling yet at the same time doesn't really want to let gamers... game. So basically Kojima, the guy who did Kingdom Hearts and probably others are frustrated movie directors and before anyone accuses me of fanboyism, I KNOW Dave Jaffe truly wanted to be a movie director and focused that energy into God of War, but he also knew when to let you kill Ares and not just watch him.
you say MGS has ALWAYS been about the story? yet you keep comparing it to God of War? a game not exactly known for it?s story.. so again, comparisons are very weak. And yes, you can skip the cutscenes. I just beat the game a few days ago and I?m planning on going through again? not for the story.. but to get bigger and better guns and to go murder countless PMC?s. I had 400+ kills my first run through, and I still got to enjoy the story. I really can?t see what you?re complaining about in those regards.

Wargamer said:
When I looked at Metal Gear Solid 3, I was in love again. This was a PREQUAL! We get to PLAY AS SNAKE! There is no Raiden! That sold me on its own!
?the factor that sold you was misinterpreted.. you didn?t play as snake(david)? snake wasn?t quite alive.

Wargamer said:
But then we get Metal Gear Solid 4. At first, I wasn't interested. MGS2 had scarred me, and all the vids I saw only strengthened my conviction that I shouldn't buy this game; it was all "Look how cool Raiden is now!" and "look! Snake's shooting himself in the head!"
That's not how a I want a game promoted. Kojima has this masterful ability to be utterly retarded when showing off a game. His lies with MGS2 and "hiding" Raiden almost ruined the game series for me, and it was not until I actually got to read the synopsis of MGS4's plot and learn what it really involved that I relented and bought it.
Raiden was hidden in MGS2 in the same way the (DARK KNIGHT SPOILER) Harvey dent played such a huge role in the dark knight although his.. other character was not shown in the previews at all. Kojima obviously didn?t intend for raiden to be so unpopular. He didn?t ?hide? raiden for that purpose.

Wargamer said:
If it were not for people handing out spoilers, I'd still be branding Kojima a fucktard. THAT, I feel, is MGS4's greatest failing; the guy doesn't know how to give facts.
What are the spoilers that were handed out to you? Did you honestly think that after such a bad reception than they would center another game around raiden? Again, it is not an issue of ?not being able to give facts,? but an issue of ?not giving people the script before they buy the game.? Who the hell would buy a game like MGS if they knew the whole story beforehand?

Korolev said:
The problem I've always had with Metal Gear Solid games is not the dialogue - never had a problem with listening to long conversations.

The only problem I have is how stupid the game can be. Sometimes, the game can be great - the game can be extremely atmospheric and can explore unique and meaningful ideas. But sometimes... the game just looks and sounds stupid.
Kojima often breaks the fourth wall with his games, and this is probably what you are referencing.

Korolev said:
1) The Name Big Boss. I've always hated this name. He's supposed to be the world's greatest mercenary, the greatest soldier.... and his name is BIG BOSS. Every single time the voice-actors say the words "Big Boss", I wonder how it is that they don't die from embarrassment. It's a really, really, stupid name. If it had just been "The Boss" (I know that was the name he used in MSG3 for that woman), it would have been better. Big Boss just sounds sill.
For some reason this has never struck me as a silly name. maybe it?s just because I?m a silly fanboy and hold such reverence for the man. But then again in the MGS universe, everyone else does as well. Either reverence of hatred I?d suppose?

Korolev said:
2) Old eye-patch man in a flying octopus suit (with flames), screaming "STUPID MACHINES!!!". That scene just speaks for itself. It felt embarrassing to WATCH.
Solidus isn?t really old.. sure he has white-ish hair, but as he demonstrates he could battle with the best of them. Sure, he has help from his suit in terms of extra muscle and snake arms, but all in all someone yelling ?STUPID MACHINES? while jumping on top of a 50 foot robot and raping it?s face is acceptable to me.
Korolev said:
3) Possessed Arms. I know it explains it away in MSG4, but when I was playing MSG2 and that part came up in the tanker mission..... ugh. I didn't know whether or cringe or laugh.
Hmm.. yeah I guess.. my only issue was why he got his arm replaced with Liquids.. but I?d also say ocelot possessed by liquid is better than no liquid at all.

Korolev said:
4) SHOW ME YOUR RAGE!!! is stupid, no matter how you try to deliver the line.
Arugal? lol. WoW boss.

Korolev said:
5) Johnny Sasaki needing to go to the bathroom every 2 seconds, was stupid. I know it's his character, but honestly, he had stomach pains EVERY SINGLE TIME THE CAMERA was on him. So Kojima creates this incredibly atmospheric game, great music, great voice actors, great graphics - you feel as if you are sneaking around the war-torn middle east, listening to the bullets go by your head, the sound of distant explosions.... and suddenly you find Sasaki having constipation in a metal can. Yeah. Way to go. Really improves the atmosphere.
Ok here?s a nice fourth wall example. Yes, the game is mostly very good at being atmospheric, but if there?s one thing kojima loves, it?s making jokes completely out of context of the game, or a joke relating to past games. Johnny is more of a cameo I?d say, and the fact that he ended up playing a pretty big role is even more amusing.
Other points of great atmosphere ? countless talks with otacon and both encounters with psycho mantis. (psycho mantis got some boss reward from IGN or something for being really intuitive).

Korolev said:
The Metal Gear Solid games are 80% fantastic, 20% sheer embarrassment. Kojima's "Wacky" humor destroys the atmosphere on any number of occasions. It would be like putting jokes in a serious war drama - like putting constipation jokes in the middle of "Saving Private Ryan". It just doesn't work.

It's a real shame - the Metal Gear Solid games are great, for the most part. They come very close to being classified as "art". Then Kojima makes toilet jokes and gives a character the name "Big Boss". Ugh.
It seems you?re taking this nearly opposite as the previous guy I responded too. It seems like you?re taking this a bit too seriously. It is a game. It is (kind of) a movie. It really can?t be just one. All of the codec calls during the fight with screaming mantis had me on the floor. God knows the first thing I tried was switching the controller settings?

Urgamanix said:
- Here's another example, Snake / Ocelot fighting with exactly the same moves. Yeah I guess you can say it makes the fight feel more epic, but more stupid contrived elements. Thought we were trying to keep on the lines of reality.
sorry, this was just a blaring error on my screen. Have you looked at any of the boss fights in any of the MGS games that have come out in the past ten years? Some things that simply cannot be explained: vulvan raven, psycho mantis, fortune (her last hurrah), vamp floating above water and running up walls, the sorrow, the pain controlling bees, the end communicating with the forest, volgin controlling electricity, the boss?s scar slithering off of her body, all of the B&B corps. And probably more. Realiity? Nope. Not really.

As for my response to Yahtzee?s review, I thought it was unfair (ooh, who saw that coming). He assumes you have never heard of the previous three installments, so to get a good review it has to be either 1. the only game or the first game in a series, or 2. a game that is constantly changing like FF.
Being someone that has played 1,2 and 3, I can?t say I was surprised when it took a while for the game to actually start. It was a little ridiculous when I got control of snake, crawled under the jeep, then another cutscene started.
It was a frustrating first hour, the controls took a while to get used to. But, being the war machine that I am, I got a lot of practice pretty fast to by the time I got to act 2 I was fighting pretty smoothly.
I can see what he means when he says it could have used some editing, but this isn?t a movie. It doesn?t have to be constrained into a 3 hour time slot. Maybe people just need to be hardcore about it (like me..?) and play through the game in a day and a half (pretty solidly..)(SOLID. HAHA.) instead of playing mgs4 during your daily half an hour video game time before lights out every night, so you can actually get some playing in around the immense story.

But then again, I don?t take Yahtzee?s reviews seriously. I don?t know who does. I watch them because they?re hilarious. Especially when he rips on a game that I like to rip on. They?re great to show to your friends. Anyway. [insert link to Famistu?s 40/40 review of MGS4]

G?night.
 

Tempdude0

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Hopping into the fray again.

Just because it "isn't his kind of game" doesn't make his point less valid.

As far as the killing is concerned, it may not be the point of the game and the score may be contingent on how few you've killed, but the fact you can run around like a chicken with your head cut off kind of kills the "sneaking" aspect of the game. I realize that isn't what you're meant to do, but allowing you to disregard stealth whenever you feel like it disqualifies it as a "stealth game". Hell, you could be stealthy in the GTA series. Does that mean they're "stealth games" as well?

He's complaining that the story is presented in a poor manner and should not have to be skipped for any reason aside from having played through the game multiple times. That aside, he keeps referencing God of War because it manages to integrate story and gameplay well. The story may be relatively simple, true, but in regards to integrating story and gameplay MGS fails horribly. It seems intent on you watching a story unfold, not being part of an unfolding story.

Skipping a few, he's not referencing that. He's most likely referencing NANOMACHINES! and the general odd shit that pops up in the game, such as anything people say that's not related to what's going on. An example may be the medic from MGS 3 and when she would rant about movies. He's in the middle of a war zone, now is NOT the time to be discussing Creature from the Black Lagoon.

"Old eye-patch man in a flying octopus suit (with flames), screaming "STUPID MACHINES!!!" I believe this line goes toward general "...What?" feelings. It's just goofy.

Skipping again to the "80% fantastic, 20% sheer embarrassment" part. The idea isn't that he's tossing in jokes, its that he's tossing in jokes that kill the feel of the game. It's possible to integrate jokes into a serious story, but a little bit of subtlety is required and at times Kojima just throws subtlety out the window.

To the final point, the idea is that a game need not be constrained to a time limit, but parts of it shouldn't make you want to do something else. Take the scene from Super Paper Mario where you have to run around a wheel for 15 minutes. Something like that may serve a purpose in the game and may even be a joke/reference, but when you're sacrificing the point of a game (you know, playing it) for the sake of story/jokes/references/artistic vision, then it becomes a problem. If you need to be "hardcore" about something to appreciate it, then it has failed.

I'm not going to rag on you for liking the game, but I'm curious as to why people never seem to see the flaws in the things they like.
 

Sandoggg

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Tempdude0 said:
Hopping into the fray again.

Just because it "isn't his kind of game" doesn't make his point less valid.
I don't play hockey games because I know I won't enjoy it. I'm not going to go get one and start complaining about things that I don't like in it. You want my opinion on fish? I hate fish. Smells like garbage. Too many bones, looks disgusting. It gives me a gag-reflex. Are my points valid? All in all, probably not.

Tempdude0 said:
As far as the killing is concerned, it may not be the point of the game and the score may be contingent on how few you've killed, but the fact you can run around like a chicken with your head cut off kind of kills the "sneaking" aspect of the game. I realize that isn't what you're meant to do, but allowing you to disregard stealth whenever you feel like it disqualifies it as a "stealth game". Hell, you could be stealthy in the GTA series. Does that mean they're "stealth games" as well?
it's a choice. it's not the fact that you are able to, it's the fact that you choose to. plus, how stupid would MGS be if the game was over once you were seen? When you are sneaking through a tight area and a guard sees you, being able to run around like a chicken with your head cut off is a much better idea than restarting the game. I'm even willing to bet that over half of the MGS players don't focus on being stealthy for their first run through the game. It's more of a challenge for later, and getting those great rewards.
Anyways, I'd classify MGS as an action game.. it just has the bit about espionage action in the title.

Tempdude0 said:
He's complaining that the story is presented in a poor manner and should not have to be skipped for any reason aside from having played through the game multiple times. That aside, he keeps referencing God of War because it manages to integrate story and gameplay well. The story may be relatively simple, true, but in regards to integrating story and gameplay MGS fails horribly. It seems intent on you watching a story unfold, not being part of an unfolding story.
I like that last sentence of yours. Honestly I was trying to be vague with GoW because I have never played it. I have just heard about how great of an action game it is. Not many games can rival the story of MGS though lol. At least in terms of volume.
So what would you have done? Make the game an RPG in which you choose Snake's responses? I really can't see much difference between games like MGS and DMC where you watch a couple action scenes and some talking in an FMV, and suddenly you're thrown into a fight again.

Tempdude0 said:
Skipping a few, he's not referencing that. He's most likely referencing NANOMACHINES! and the general odd shit that pops up in the game, such as anything people say that's not related to what's going on. An example may be the medic from MGS 3 and when she would rant about movies. He's in the middle of a war zone, now is NOT the time to be discussing Creature from the Black Lagoon.
I do think that the whole nanomachine stuff got a little out of hand. Mainly in regards to Vamp. I still don't know how he can float on water and run up walls. But he is a badass.. Kojima definitely likes to make references. I don't know exactly how old he is, but those could have been movies he liked to watch as a kid, and for all the old timers out there playing his games, they'd get a kick out of hearing about those movies as well. Kind of liek the radio stations in GTA:VC, but as you said, less subtle. You people must not have played MGS, because I was so damn nostalgic walking around shadow moses while they played the MGS ending music.. I was tearing up.. it was amazing. and Otacon's call about switching discs was also amazing.

Tempdude0 said:
"Old eye-patch man in a flying octopus suit (with flames), screaming "STUPID MACHINES!!!" I believe this line goes toward general "...What?" feelings. It's just goofy.
well I guess this is just a new opinion to me, I've talked to a lot of people about the game and this is the first time someone has thought Solidus was weird and old.. Sorry you can't take him seriously.

Tempdude0 said:
Skipping again to the "80% fantastic, 20% sheer embarrassment" part. The idea isn't that he's tossing in jokes, its that he's tossing in jokes that kill the feel of the game. It's possible to integrate jokes into a serious story, but a little bit of subtlety is required and at times Kojima just throws subtlety out the window.
oops, kind of addressed this above. Yeah the story is serious, but just maybe try to appreciate the game itself a bit more. Who doesn't love easter eggs?

Tempdude0 said:
To the final point, the idea is that a game need not be constrained to a time limit, but parts of it shouldn't make you want to do something else. Take the scene from Super Paper Mario where you have to run around a wheel for 15 minutes. Something like that may serve a purpose in the game and may even be a joke/reference, but when you're sacrificing the point of a game (you know, playing it) for the sake of story/jokes/references/artistic vision, then it becomes a problem. If you need to be "hardcore" about something to appreciate it, then it has failed.

I'm not going to rag on you for liking the game, but I'm curious as to why people never seem to see the flaws in the things they like.
My point about being hardcore is that I'm admitting the game does not fit well with people who have very limited time for playing. I myself had an off day from work, and was allowed to laze about in my room all day and play through the game (and most of the night before..and late into that night..). So when a long cutscene came up, I wasn't annoyed. And now that I have that first run out of the way, I'm going to play through it again and skip the cutscenes for.. maximum playing time..?
You say that long cutscenes sacrifices the point of a game? I certainly knew what I was getting into when I bought this game. My friend who I'm borrowing the game from even told me when he handed it to me, "best movie ever." I smiled and took the game from him.
mgs4 has no flaws.....! but seriously. the cutscenes didn't bother me, the endings were long but cinematic, the controls took a while to get used to.. and i don't really know what else to say. this is a mgs game, that's how they go.
 

m_jim

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Sandoggg said:
Tempdude0 said:
Hopping into the fray again.

Just because it "isn't his kind of game" doesn't make his point less valid.
I don't play hockey games because I know I won't enjoy it. I'm not going to go get one and start complaining about things that I don't like in it. You want my opinion on fish? I hate fish. Smells like garbage. Too many bones, looks disgusting. It gives me a gag-reflex. Are my points valid? All in all, probably not.
But if a game is truly great, wouldn't it have a near universal appeal? When Tetris and GTA3 were released, they captured the minds of gamers of all stripes. Whether "it's your thing" or not, one could at least recognize the significance of it.

Tempdude0 said:
He's complaining that the story is presented in a poor manner and should not have to be skipped for any reason aside from having played through the game multiple times. That aside, he keeps referencing God of War because it manages to integrate story and gameplay well. The story may be relatively simple, true, but in regards to integrating story and gameplay MGS fails horribly. It seems intent on you watching a story unfold, not being part of an unfolding story.
Sandoggg said:
I like that last sentence of yours. Honestly I was trying to be vague with GoW because I have never played it. I have just heard about how great of an action game it is. Not many games can rival the story of MGS though lol. At least in terms of volume.
So what would you have done? Make the game an RPG in which you choose Snake's responses? I really can't see much difference between games like MGS and DMC where you watch a couple action scenes and some talking in an FMV, and suddenly you're thrown into a fight again.
Is there a reason why you have to watch all the cool stuff happen in the cutscenes? I understand that not every game can integrate the story into gameplay (such as Half-Life). However, there is a problem when you are watching the high octane fight scenes in a game rather than playing them. A friend of mine summed it up best when we were talking about the game-to-cutscene ratio: "Come to think of it, the game didn't let me play it all that much."
 

Tempdude0

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Nifty, a response.

What I was putting forward was the idea that someone can object to something and still remain correct despite bias. I, for instance, do not really enjoy first person shooter. However, I can still tell what is and isn't supposed to be in one. If a first person shooter decides to, say, crap out on controls or gives 90% of the enemies perfect head-shot aim then it isn't just that I don't like the genre but that those are legitimate issues.

I never said it wasn't a choice. I just said it was a poor decision to call it a "stealth" game. Right in the title it touts itself as one and I think it's a poor decision. I also agree that it's better to be able to recover from being seen, but the "chicken with your head cut off line" means running around in circles like an idiot. It's not just running away to recover, but being able to prance around like a 'tard and not die.

The problem is that Devil May Cry isn't heralded as having the most AMAZIN' STORY EVARR! It never tries to break away from the fact that it's a shallow "beat the bejeezus out of shit" game. MGS at all times feels like it's trying to break away from being a game and jump onto the silver screen. See, the cutscenes wouldn't be an issue if they weren't so damn long. The game could have taken a cue from Max Payne and had gamplay interspersed with dialog. At important fights, instead of going into a cutscene, the dialog could have just been done while Snake was running around fighting or hiding or whatever he had to do. Just make sure the villain can't die while this is going on. Ideally, it should only take maybe, five minutes or so to do the back and forth deal. Granted, it shouldn't use this all the time, but it would be a way to cut out some of the cutscenes and would have put more focus on keeping only the needed information present instead of running off on a tangent like the game loves to do.

Once again, I've played the older games and watched this one but nostalgia doesn't cloud my judgment. The running on walls and floating on water are fine as they are, considering some of the other things in the game. The problem I have is that for every subtle reference, there's three other blatant, shoehorned in ones.

See, that's the thing. The main villain, if meant to be taken seriously, shouldn't have a scene that's going to make him look utterly ridiculous. It'd be like seeing Jon Irenicus in a tutu at one point in Baldur's Gate II. It kills the idea of the villain as a serious threat because, for the rest of the game, all you'll be able to see is the proverbial "tutu scene"

I love easter eggs as much as the next guy, but they're meant to be HIDDEN, not held out in front of the viewer while the narrator goes "See, see? We're referencing something! Isn't this just awesome?" As I stated, all Kojima lacks in that regard is a degree of subtlety.

My personal likes and dislikes don't get in the way of what I'm saying here. You can love the game like you do, but you've got to admit that what people have called flaws ARE flaws. Long cutscenes destroy immersion. Fans tend not to experience this because they have their love of the series to keep them involved. Any casual player, even one who's played the previous games is going to get annoyed at the abundance/length of the cutscenes. Even knowing what your in for is no excuse for the game. It's a game and as such gameplay is meant to be the focus. If a game gives you bad controls or, in this case, seems to not want you to actually do anything...It's just trying. MGS never wants to let you actually run around and do things. In fact, the parts you play seem more like the game is humoring you while waiting to get to the next part of the movie. In short, the game is more like a movie with interactive intermissions.

Like I said earlier, if that's your thing, bully for you. You've found something that makes you happy. That doesn't mean the object of your happiness is stupendous or even well done. It just means you enjoy it to the point where the flaws don't get to you.

To m_jim

No, universal appeal isn't necessary for something to be great, however the last sentence there is right. Objectivity should come into play when looking at the merits of something, and if the game/movie/book is truly great, even those who don't enjoy it can look upon it and go "Yeah, it's not my thing, but dammit...It's well done."

The last paragraph is about right as well. As stated earlier, it isn't just that the game is riddled with cutscenes, it's that it actually seems hesitant to let you play. Think about the way people describe the experience. Everyone seems to describe the game as if it's a person. Actually, that's another good analogy.

Imagine you and a buddy are working together to tell a story. Now, he spends most of the time talking, only allowing you to get a word in here and there to help describe what was going on. He even goes so far as to cut you off mid sentence so that he can get back to talking and telling it how he wants to. That buddy is Metal Gear Solid 4.
 

raunchy

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rofl the fanboys are certainly getting all defensive and suffering from serious bouts of denial. this is great
 

raunchy

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btw, MGS4 is nothing more than a fanservice psuedo-game designed to appease the legions of hardcore Kojima worhippers so they can take solace in the fact they devoured its haphazard story with shit-eating grins throughout
 

Sylocat

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Aries_Split said:
This thread is the same with any game yahtzee reviews. Yahtzee beats on game, a whole bunch of ignorant people that want to seem cool agree with him. Flame war's and epic fail ensue.yawn,
I wish everyone who ever posted in a ZP comments thread would read this post before they open their mouths (er, keyboards).

I like to joke about implementing a rule that says ZP threads should be locked after the first 1000 comments (and possibly a rule that says that if your first post is in a ZP thread, you have to ask permission from the mods to post in the other threads), but now I'm starting to wonder if it might actually be a good idea.
 

Tempdude0

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Sylocat said:
Aries_Split said:
This thread is the same with any game yahtzee reviews. Yahtzee beats on game, a whole bunch of ignorant people that want to seem cool agree with him. Flame war's and epic fail ensue.yawn,
I wish everyone who ever posted in a ZP comments thread would read this post before they open their mouths (er, keyboards).

I like to joke about implementing a rule that says ZP threads should be locked after the first 1000 comments (and possibly a rule that says that if your first post is in a ZP thread, you have to ask permission from the mods to post in the other threads), but now I'm starting to wonder if it might actually be a good idea.
The problem is that a few of us are actually discussing it in a civil manor while managing to use actual arguments as opposed to "MGS suxz, lol" or "MGS is great, your stupid." Granted, it's going all WALL 'O TEXT, but these last couple pages are starting to see more rational discourse. While it has taken a while to get to this point, I figure that as long as people manage to avoid making idiotic statements there shouldn't be any issues.

Also, to PEWPEWGreeLaser...It's a forum, what were you expecting? In order for people to debate a topic there needs to be more than single sentence posts.
 

Ryuuken

New member
Jul 24, 2008
28
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Yahtzee, MGS is definitely one of my favorite game series, but you do make some very valid points about MGS4.

The controls are poorly designed for the action sequences because for the most part (save the rail shooting parts and the boss fights), your supposed to sneak around and not get caught and have to fight off an army of guards. This was one of my major problems with MGS 2 and 3. If you were spotted, it was relatively easy to escape the guards or just mow them down with powerful weapons. MGS4 is not so much the case.

You mention that when your given the tranquilizer gun, the stealth gameplay is broken over the knee with a sickening crack. I wouldn't go so far as to say a sickening crack. I would think of that as more along the lines of a sneaking game were your given an RPG and assault rifle to just go blow shit up to get through your enemies. While you CAN do this, you wont get very far in the game. To quote from your Silent Hill: Origins review, "You're not Tommy Testosterone".

As for the story...it's hit or miss. Some people like it, some people don't. It honestly depends on the person. While I think it's one of the most interesting stories in gaming history since Silent Hill and Shenmue, I do agree that some of the cutscenes can get pretty ridiculously long (though the nice feature of being able to pause the cutscenes so you can use the bathroom or get something to eat is nice...that bothered the hell outta me in the first 3 games).

Despite these reservations I have about the review. I must say, well done. And as always, hilarious.

Don't stop doing what your doing!
 

Cid Silverwing

Paladin of The Light
Jul 27, 2008
3,134
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Can't exactly blame you for being dialogophobic but being the one you are that deprives you of your right to flame MGS4 for the uberheavy Hollywood movie/game hybrid that it is.

Saying that MGS4 is bloated with words is like flaming Resident Evil 1 through 3 for being full of zombies. That's the exact point of MGS4, there's heavy (if rather intolerable at certain times, I can't disagree completely) dialogue in many places which makes it a story-oriented game. And yes, the game leans more towards Action than it does Tactical Espionage, I certainly don't give two fucks about it anymore since the players are given like 30+ weapons complete with a weapons shop that resupplies you on the spot wherever you go.