Zero Punctuation: The World Ends With You
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
And thus it's a bad policy for a non-Japanese critic to review a Japanese game, and vice-versa. Cultures differ by A LOT, so it's like comparing apples to oranges, which is a bit unfair.Alexsutton said:
I laughed. Hard.Codgo said:
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As far as this review, I would whole-heartedly agree. After all, the game comes from the same people who made KHII, which was not even that good of a button-masher game, much less action rpg. Also, Nintendo's getting decrepit. I expected this, and your picking at the stereotypes they used was PERFECT!!! 10/10 for Yahtzee and happy birthday too.
As a side note, the visual novels actually do have choices that you can make that change how the story goes (well, the good ones anyways). The problem is that some of them have pretty stereotypical characters so no matter what story you pick you end up getting bored by the result. I think people who are heavy into RPGs are often so depressed from the all action, less story games of America and are seeking a guiding light of good story. Even if it means not feeling like you're the main character, it can still be a good game so long as they let you be a puzzle-solver (like you pointed out, Yahtzee).
Personally, I keep it balanced. I play games like Xenosaga (amazing story chock full of interesting stuff, but gameplay is a bit eh until the third episode. at least there are plenty of puzzles to deal with that aren't big fucking board games with spiky dice *growl*) and GU (surprisingly good realtime RPG, but the story's a little off-kilter, plus the characters are rehashes of Final Fantasy VIII characters. That's right, I said it!) for a while, and then play Duke Nukem (Duke's funny as hell, and watching pig-cops blow up into chunky bits is fun. screw story, it's just fun game to play), Armored Core (custom destruction machine yay, but learning curve is fucked up. Thank God for lock-on feature), or a Metroid game (Metroid. enough said) later on. I do have Halo one (PC version, runs like a grandma. story is bland, but blowing stuff up is fun, especially when the stuff is ally marine guy), but I'd only resort to it if I wanted to put on infinite grenades and ammo for rocket launcher and listen to all the grunts squeal as they blow up and fly in the air. X3 *clears throat*
In any case, everything you hit was very true and can't be reputed. However, for those who are fans of JRPGs, that's just what they like about it sometimes. Still, I wouldn't expect as much of a fanboy response as you did when you tore apart Brawl (which was AWESOME how you hit every point I brought up to my friends who obsessed over it) because 1) JRPG fans are still a minority and 2) most of them are smart enough to realize that you're obviously not a big fan of RPGs with intense storyline and average gameplay (not talking about TWAT or whatever the abbreviation for this game is) so they shrug and say "He's right, but then again, I like it like that, so there's no reason to go yelling at him over something meaningless."
Yeah, this post is a little long, but that tends to happen. ^^; Anyways, I approve of this review, as a fan of good games and one who thought QTE was referring to the media player for about five seconds after first hearing the term.
Happy birthday, Yahtzee. Live long and rip apart more bad games to make room for the good ones! Peace out!
Hahaha, only Yahtzee could find some way to fit a Challenge Anneka reference into his reviews. While I dont hold the JRPG's gameplay similarities against them (dead on for anyone who accused FPS's of the same thing) I have to agree that the teenage/androgynous/spiky hair gig really pisses me off. Also agree with the segregation of story and gameplay, but since I consider JRPG's to be often wooden anyway, I stopped caring.
If what everyone else is posting is true, Id just like to say..... Im not going to say it, and I dont know why anyone else is. It would feel too weird for me.
If what everyone else is posting is true, Id just like to say..... Im not going to say it, and I dont know why anyone else is. It would feel too weird for me.
I'm guessing you're from usa? I think in europa jrpgs (and the ps3) are pretty popular too
I'd second that only for the horrible choice of voice actors ;_;
ok this is lame...
but this isn't. this has the same reason british would draw a car with the stearing wheel on the right side
same as above
Happy birthday you big Australian love-machine.
In any case I liked TWEWY. I actually thought that the Main character was a parody of the normal emo characters of the Square franchise. Resulting in the big old moral of, "Emo people suck."
And the method I use for the Dual Screen combat is just to hammer on left and right for the entire battle. Or Y and A if you're left handed.
In any case I liked TWEWY. I actually thought that the Main character was a parody of the normal emo characters of the Square franchise. Resulting in the big old moral of, "Emo people suck."
And the method I use for the Dual Screen combat is just to hammer on left and right for the entire battle. Or Y and A if you're left handed.
Well, until the final third. Then there are random encounters when switching areas.Kaos Incarnate said:
Complete with an obnoxious cutscene that never changes before and after the random encounter.
I found that it's far more effective to just concentrate on the bottom screen if you've been over-evolving your pins. This is grinding, but thankfully while it takes obnoxious amounts of time, it's time spent not playing the game. Seriously. Evolving generally involves getting Rest PP (PP earned based on the time between save and load) and Mingle PP which can be earned by going into Mingle mode and then wandering off for a couple of hours. You'll get random encounters with things that offer PP.
The soundtracks annoying in that it got stuck in my head after a while. Caaaallling...
Psycho cane, you're so keen
I need more candy canes
(Really! From the song in the opening cutscene.)
I watched this one (of course, else I wouldn't be commenting), and I have to say...
While I enjoyed WEWY (I refuse to add the definite article to game titles unless I have to), Yahtzee (I got it right again! \o/) brings up some good points, which I shall now commence to refute and/or agree with.
To start with, a disclaimer: I am an RPG fan, and if it has RPG elements I'll usually happily pooter around for hours playing it. And yes, that includes Oblivion, though the NPC levelling seemed off to me (playing an Assassin, levelling up Blade slowly, I was always at a disadvantage). As a result, I was engrossed in the story, rather than my own involvement in it. 'Course, some more choice, a la Torment, would have been nice.
When I started, I kept switching clothes and pins to work better. Then... I gave up. Said "eh" and never looked back. This is especially true in the final stages of the game (no spoilers...), since some of the pins your find near the end do colossal amounts of damage, wether weakened or no.
The problem with the trends isn't that it's there. It's an original mechanic. The problem is that the charts only track four brands, and there are about 15 brands. If there were, maybe, 8 brands, and the charts tracked five brands, THEN it would be of more use, since you'd have to carefully consider your deck and your clothing on entering an area.
The combat... To be frank, I never bothered with the top screen till AFTER the game ended. Yes, that's right, AFTER.
... Oh, and during the last boss battle.
Someone commented that the partner gets in the way. And this, I've realised, is completely true. In most cases, the health bar will drop from the top (unless my partner's fighting bats or something, and I'm fighting the big horrible monster). If you don't have some restoratives, you're screwed unless you can pull off fusion.
And this is the incentive to learn how to control both screens. If you don't, there's a very slim chance that the AI will get enough stars for a fusion: it just attacks as necessary. If you take control, however, then there's a greater chance of getting fusion. It's also important in harder difficulty levels, since the enemy becomes much tougher.
The pattern recognition... I have to say, unless you use Sub-Slots, you're going to suffer from that a lot. The reason is that some pins have "slash across an enemy", some have "slash down on an enemy". Doing the second is the same as doing the first. Thus, you assign one to the Sub-Slots, and don't have to worry. In fact, the manual mentions this, as does the game at one point, saying that, if a pin has a similar activation to another, the pin on the left goes first.
I was impressed by the fact that the game didn't treat the touch screen like an optional third limb, like Advance Wars Dual Strike, and instead made using it integral to actually PLAY the game, ie the game used ALL of the DS's... I'll call them "features", some may call them "gimmicks". Although, to be perfectly honest, I never used any pins requiring blowing or shouting in public, no matter HOW powerful (and they're pretty damn powerful).
I enjoyed the game. It had a decent story. Of course, it IS the only JRPG I've ever played to the end. Every other one, I started, enjoyed, then had to shelve due to college. This one, I played on the way into college, so score one for the DS.
Overall, Yahtzee brings up some some good points, which I've commented on above. It is an excellent game for JRPG fans tired of same old, same old (as an aside, a number of western RPGs do the whole "turn-based" thing as well, notable examples being DnD RPGs. Of course, the turn-based stuff is hidden, but it's there), and is a good jumping-off point for those interested in this "JRPG" stuff some people keep harping on about.
And yes, discussing the same JRPGs with someone else can quickly get confusing to outside parties. Once, I was confused by discussions on the benefits of some materia over others and which enemies are more dangerous and why, among other things (less confused by the former now, but still confused by the latter, and everything else). When talking to a friend about this game, I suddenly realised that we were using terms no-one who hadn't played the game would understand, such as "mingle" (which is faaaaar too close to "Tingle" for my tastes...) and "Shutdown PPs" and "light puck" and "Noise" and "drop rate" (well, maybe not so much for the last). So, it's endemic to JRPGs: people talking about them are harder to understand than people talking about most other games.
And now, I'm off to resume study, and thence to get back to beating Another Day.
As an afterword, I loved the soundtrack as well.
PS: Happy Birthday, Yahtzee, you respectibly-hatted paragon of all that is wonderful about the internet.
While I enjoyed WEWY (I refuse to add the definite article to game titles unless I have to), Yahtzee (I got it right again! \o/) brings up some good points, which I shall now commence to refute and/or agree with.
To start with, a disclaimer: I am an RPG fan, and if it has RPG elements I'll usually happily pooter around for hours playing it. And yes, that includes Oblivion, though the NPC levelling seemed off to me (playing an Assassin, levelling up Blade slowly, I was always at a disadvantage). As a result, I was engrossed in the story, rather than my own involvement in it. 'Course, some more choice, a la Torment, would have been nice.
When I started, I kept switching clothes and pins to work better. Then... I gave up. Said "eh" and never looked back. This is especially true in the final stages of the game (no spoilers...), since some of the pins your find near the end do colossal amounts of damage, wether weakened or no.
The problem with the trends isn't that it's there. It's an original mechanic. The problem is that the charts only track four brands, and there are about 15 brands. If there were, maybe, 8 brands, and the charts tracked five brands, THEN it would be of more use, since you'd have to carefully consider your deck and your clothing on entering an area.
The combat... To be frank, I never bothered with the top screen till AFTER the game ended. Yes, that's right, AFTER.
... Oh, and during the last boss battle.
Someone commented that the partner gets in the way. And this, I've realised, is completely true. In most cases, the health bar will drop from the top (unless my partner's fighting bats or something, and I'm fighting the big horrible monster). If you don't have some restoratives, you're screwed unless you can pull off fusion.
And this is the incentive to learn how to control both screens. If you don't, there's a very slim chance that the AI will get enough stars for a fusion: it just attacks as necessary. If you take control, however, then there's a greater chance of getting fusion. It's also important in harder difficulty levels, since the enemy becomes much tougher.
The pattern recognition... I have to say, unless you use Sub-Slots, you're going to suffer from that a lot. The reason is that some pins have "slash across an enemy", some have "slash down on an enemy". Doing the second is the same as doing the first. Thus, you assign one to the Sub-Slots, and don't have to worry. In fact, the manual mentions this, as does the game at one point, saying that, if a pin has a similar activation to another, the pin on the left goes first.
I was impressed by the fact that the game didn't treat the touch screen like an optional third limb, like Advance Wars Dual Strike, and instead made using it integral to actually PLAY the game, ie the game used ALL of the DS's... I'll call them "features", some may call them "gimmicks". Although, to be perfectly honest, I never used any pins requiring blowing or shouting in public, no matter HOW powerful (and they're pretty damn powerful).
I enjoyed the game. It had a decent story. Of course, it IS the only JRPG I've ever played to the end. Every other one, I started, enjoyed, then had to shelve due to college. This one, I played on the way into college, so score one for the DS.
Overall, Yahtzee brings up some some good points, which I've commented on above. It is an excellent game for JRPG fans tired of same old, same old (as an aside, a number of western RPGs do the whole "turn-based" thing as well, notable examples being DnD RPGs. Of course, the turn-based stuff is hidden, but it's there), and is a good jumping-off point for those interested in this "JRPG" stuff some people keep harping on about.
And yes, discussing the same JRPGs with someone else can quickly get confusing to outside parties. Once, I was confused by discussions on the benefits of some materia over others and which enemies are more dangerous and why, among other things (less confused by the former now, but still confused by the latter, and everything else). When talking to a friend about this game, I suddenly realised that we were using terms no-one who hadn't played the game would understand, such as "mingle" (which is faaaaar too close to "Tingle" for my tastes...) and "Shutdown PPs" and "light puck" and "Noise" and "drop rate" (well, maybe not so much for the last). So, it's endemic to JRPGs: people talking about them are harder to understand than people talking about most other games.
And now, I'm off to resume study, and thence to get back to beating Another Day.
As an afterword, I loved the soundtrack as well.
PS: Happy Birthday, Yahtzee, you respectibly-hatted paragon of all that is wonderful about the internet.
Moments before watching this, I had just literally finished TWEWY so I found this to be momumentally hilarious.
Whether I will think this way in a few days, I don't know.
However, there are a couple of points raised that are actually spot on, mainly the 30+74 puzzle which also frustrated me into thinking: "do I even need to think in this game or are they going to tell me everything anyway?" - I let myself have it their way mind and loved every second of the game.
I love the combat though but who else is creeped out by the Noise symbols? CONSTANTLY creeped out by the taboo noise preying on me!!!!
Whether I will think this way in a few days, I don't know.
However, there are a couple of points raised that are actually spot on, mainly the 30+74 puzzle which also frustrated me into thinking: "do I even need to think in this game or are they going to tell me everything anyway?" - I let myself have it their way mind and loved every second of the game.
I love the combat though but who else is creeped out by the Noise symbols? CONSTANTLY creeped out by the taboo noise preying on me!!!!
The symbols? Not particluarly. The devs mentioned that they were styled on animal skulls, just... ummm... "tattooified" (they didn't say the last part, I made the word up). I've seen a fair amount of skulls. So, I just said "Oh, is that it? Useful" and thought no more on it.exoneuk said:
Oh, also:
He IS English, y'know. I was going to say "British", but his accent is neither Scottish nor Welsh, and I KNOW it's not from No'rn Ir'n', so English it must be.twilight_dweller said:
Yahtzee, you herculean exemplar, what the hell are you ragging on about?! I can understand your deep-seated hatred for the JRPG scene, but I think you give them perhaps too little credit where it's due. The following is my take on the game, and what you seemed to have missed.
Let me start with the story, with which you seem to quit halfway through out of either boredom or sheer desire to not read something other than a newspaper: there are so many plot twists in the story, it's almost impossible to make sense of it all, or so it would if this were your standard example of a JRPG, but it's not now, is it? The characters are... well, you had them pretty well pegged in your review of the game; they're JRPG characters, they're stereotypical of the genre, and they're fucking annoying because you can't seem to run away to take a piss without them following you to watch intently. But back to the point, the game gives you the equivalency of seven "days" to absorb the complete chapters of the storyline, learn more about all three of the self-image-obsessed girl that rags on about nothing all the time, the conniving back-stabbing knows-more-than-he-should-and-won't-share-with-you-'cause-Joshua-is-a-fucking-prick androgyne, and the wannabe gangster Player-turned-Reaper-turned-Player-again that you want to gag so as to not hear the voice actor go "BWAAAH!" anymore. Sure, it seems annoying now, but listen. As the story progresses, you learn about all the aspects of all the characters over an equal amount of time, not like the JRPG's usual tactic of hiding half the characters shrouded in mystery and when the final fight comes-- BAM! you're thrown headlong into some deep mushy life-story bullcrap that takes up the entirety of the final boss battle, effectively making you waste double the time that was really necessary. TWEWY can tell a good story... when it needs to. Which is almost every minute you're not running for your life, or beating the senselessness out of the Noise that randomly appear, and speaking of...
The combat system is something to behold: an interesting two-screen system that makes use of both the D-Pad (or A B X Y buttons, for all you Southpaws) and the stylus, which is, as you said, defunct half the time... at least at the points when the character up top is yelling at you to circle for your fucking lives! No, not a triangle, an ellipse, or a goddamn hyper-cube, a CIRCLE! Though the other pins are pretty ingenious as far as other controls are concerned; swipe your stylus to slash enemies, poke enemies to shoot energy bullets... just don't get too frantic with the poking or you'll end up stabbing through your DS in frustration. That'd kill all the Noise pretty fast, eh? Especially that fucking "BWAAAH!" noise-- what the fuck kind of demon possessed that man to make such a noise?! I personally thought the Fusion system got really redundant really fast, as all the computer character knows how to do is SPAM LEFT REALLY FAST and pray you get enough stars-- "AND IT IS ALWAYS STARS", said Yahtzee during his Super Mario Galaxy review-- to perform a Fusion attack that does less damage than one of your pins; though I digress, it was pretty cool to see a giant teddy bear basically rape everything on the screen for thirty seconds or slam a fuckload of cars on a dumbfounded hedgehog and his froggy subordinates. The option to change the level at which you fight enemies was probably the best addition to the system in a long time; imagine all the Japanese people kicking the Game Masters' asses at Level 1 on Ultimate... and the experience system is interesting, at least. You can gain experience by battle, by mingling with other people-- you can gain experience while you sleep, although that system is a bit broken if you have any clue on how the DS's basic functions work... and the clothing system is pretty well thought-out, but I know some of you sick fucks (and let's face it, I'm guilty of this as well, but I'm already the highest degree of "sick fuck" conceived to date and everyone knows it) but some of you will end up force-feeding Neku crepes 'til he's bursting at the seams just to get his bravery high enough to wear goth-loli clothing. Oh, and don't forget to take off any clothing that the second character is wearing before the final boss battles, because when they leave, so does the gear and your well-earned, well-wasted money... but I still give it two thumbs right up the ass of the JRPG stereotype for not thinking of this and sharing with the world sooner.
The one thing, and one thing only, that really pissed me off was "Tin Pin Slammer". What the fuck is "Tin Pin Slammer", and what relevance does it hold towards me trying to save myself from extinction? No, I don't want to waste twenty minutes flicking fucking pins at your fucking flicky pins when I could just as easily undo the safety pin at the back and stab you in the eyes! How does it feel now, Dan Shuto, you annoying little ****?! I personally feel that "Tin Pin Slammer" is the single largest waste of space of time and space that the video game world has ever seen, right up there with "E.T." and "Shaq Fu".
All in all, I still give this game extremely high regards for its good storyline, its fantastic battle system-- I'm still taking some of those points away for "Tin Pin Slammer"-- and what with TWEWY being the single most popular game Square Enix has come out with since "Final Fantasy VII". Now go play something that makes sense before your mind becomes devoid of all logical thought. Oh, and before I forget, I wish you a happy revolving-once-more-around-the-Sun day to you as well...
Let me start with the story, with which you seem to quit halfway through out of either boredom or sheer desire to not read something other than a newspaper: there are so many plot twists in the story, it's almost impossible to make sense of it all, or so it would if this were your standard example of a JRPG, but it's not now, is it? The characters are... well, you had them pretty well pegged in your review of the game; they're JRPG characters, they're stereotypical of the genre, and they're fucking annoying because you can't seem to run away to take a piss without them following you to watch intently. But back to the point, the game gives you the equivalency of seven "days" to absorb the complete chapters of the storyline, learn more about all three of the self-image-obsessed girl that rags on about nothing all the time, the conniving back-stabbing knows-more-than-he-should-and-won't-share-with-you-'cause-Joshua-is-a-fucking-prick androgyne, and the wannabe gangster Player-turned-Reaper-turned-Player-again that you want to gag so as to not hear the voice actor go "BWAAAH!" anymore. Sure, it seems annoying now, but listen. As the story progresses, you learn about all the aspects of all the characters over an equal amount of time, not like the JRPG's usual tactic of hiding half the characters shrouded in mystery and when the final fight comes-- BAM! you're thrown headlong into some deep mushy life-story bullcrap that takes up the entirety of the final boss battle, effectively making you waste double the time that was really necessary. TWEWY can tell a good story... when it needs to. Which is almost every minute you're not running for your life, or beating the senselessness out of the Noise that randomly appear, and speaking of...
The combat system is something to behold: an interesting two-screen system that makes use of both the D-Pad (or A B X Y buttons, for all you Southpaws) and the stylus, which is, as you said, defunct half the time... at least at the points when the character up top is yelling at you to circle for your fucking lives! No, not a triangle, an ellipse, or a goddamn hyper-cube, a CIRCLE! Though the other pins are pretty ingenious as far as other controls are concerned; swipe your stylus to slash enemies, poke enemies to shoot energy bullets... just don't get too frantic with the poking or you'll end up stabbing through your DS in frustration. That'd kill all the Noise pretty fast, eh? Especially that fucking "BWAAAH!" noise-- what the fuck kind of demon possessed that man to make such a noise?! I personally thought the Fusion system got really redundant really fast, as all the computer character knows how to do is SPAM LEFT REALLY FAST and pray you get enough stars-- "AND IT IS ALWAYS STARS", said Yahtzee during his Super Mario Galaxy review-- to perform a Fusion attack that does less damage than one of your pins; though I digress, it was pretty cool to see a giant teddy bear basically rape everything on the screen for thirty seconds or slam a fuckload of cars on a dumbfounded hedgehog and his froggy subordinates. The option to change the level at which you fight enemies was probably the best addition to the system in a long time; imagine all the Japanese people kicking the Game Masters' asses at Level 1 on Ultimate... and the experience system is interesting, at least. You can gain experience by battle, by mingling with other people-- you can gain experience while you sleep, although that system is a bit broken if you have any clue on how the DS's basic functions work... and the clothing system is pretty well thought-out, but I know some of you sick fucks (and let's face it, I'm guilty of this as well, but I'm already the highest degree of "sick fuck" conceived to date and everyone knows it) but some of you will end up force-feeding Neku crepes 'til he's bursting at the seams just to get his bravery high enough to wear goth-loli clothing. Oh, and don't forget to take off any clothing that the second character is wearing before the final boss battles, because when they leave, so does the gear and your well-earned, well-wasted money... but I still give it two thumbs right up the ass of the JRPG stereotype for not thinking of this and sharing with the world sooner.
The one thing, and one thing only, that really pissed me off was "Tin Pin Slammer". What the fuck is "Tin Pin Slammer", and what relevance does it hold towards me trying to save myself from extinction? No, I don't want to waste twenty minutes flicking fucking pins at your fucking flicky pins when I could just as easily undo the safety pin at the back and stab you in the eyes! How does it feel now, Dan Shuto, you annoying little ****?! I personally feel that "Tin Pin Slammer" is the single largest waste of space of time and space that the video game world has ever seen, right up there with "E.T." and "Shaq Fu".
All in all, I still give this game extremely high regards for its good storyline, its fantastic battle system-- I'm still taking some of those points away for "Tin Pin Slammer"-- and what with TWEWY being the single most popular game Square Enix has come out with since "Final Fantasy VII". Now go play something that makes sense before your mind becomes devoid of all logical thought. Oh, and before I forget, I wish you a happy revolving-once-more-around-the-Sun day to you as well...
Everytime I read or see anything involving the DS I get to the conclusion that the DS is just irritating.....I have a PS3 and monolith nuclear power plant of a PC and a Wii....and Wii is annoying as hell...but I have to admit..........fun ^_^.....for a while -.-
All I know is that he lives in Australia currently. And calling someone an Australian love-machine is funnier than calling them a British love-machine.KBKarma said:
EDIT:
@ Gregorius
I kind of liked Tin Pin Slammer. It was a fun addition.
I don't mind Yahtzee hating any game as long as he gives a good, objective reason, which he did very well in this review.
Yahtzee improved from funny-yet-somewhat-childish-reviewer to much-less-biased-but-still-funny-reviewer
Yahtzee improved from funny-yet-somewhat-childish-reviewer to much-less-biased-but-still-funny-reviewer
for a long time I thought he was British the n he kinda said he lived in Ausrtilia then he said he was british so my brian said what ever to anther meeningless topic
Now that is not true, he wants INTERACTIVE story telling whereas JRPG's fall firmly into the category of MOVIE or CINEMATIC story telling, where we watch rather than participate in the story.TheNix said:
He puts out a consumer product, I'm a consumer saying the product sucks - there is no more important feedback, fanboy. But then, you probably already knew that I had hidden my criticism deep within a suggestion - cause your supernatural mental prowess clearly would miss nothing like that.TheDarkPrince said:
Also, to characterize Oblivion and World of Warcraft as the same type of game would be folly. Just as you wouldn't put Billy Madison in the same area of the movie store as a Patton Oswalt stand-up. Each of those are a different genre. The word genre is as small or large as a person wants to make it - Yahtzee clearly makes a distinction between western and JRPGS, which is precisely what I'm commenting on.
Now please, go find some other internet fad to defend witlessly.