Zero Punctuation: XBLA Double Bill

[friedmetroid]

I've disagreed with Yahtzee before, but I found this review to just be outright idiotic.

Yahtzee, you claim to be all for the 'games are art' stance, so I have to wonder if you view art in the same way?

Let's use Mona Lisa as an example. Lots of new and interesting artistic techniques have been created since that painting. Does that automatically make digital and 3D art better? Is Mona Lisa no longer a marvel of artistic beauty because we have holographic pictures now?
Is Quake 2 inferior to Daikatana because it was made earlier?

I can understand where you want to put down all the fanboys who still hail the original Legend of Zelda as the greatest game ever, but you could habe done it a lot more elegantly.

 

[Saitken]

I've disagreed with Yahtzee before, but I found this review to just be outright idiotic.

Yahtzee, you claim to be all for the 'games are art' stance, so I have to wonder if you view art in the same way?

Let's use Mona Lisa as an example. Lots of new and interesting artistic techniques have been created since that painting. Does that automatically make digital and 3D art better? Is Mona Lisa no longer a marvel of artistic beauty because we have holographic pictures now?
Is Quake 2 inferior to Daikatana because it was made earlier?

I can understand where you want to put down all the fanboys who still hail the original Legend of Zelda as the greatest game ever, but you could habe done it a lot more elegantly.

It is seriously annoying when the enemies happen to be standing an inch away from you on a different plane.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Let's use Mona Lisa as an example. Lots of new and interesting artistic techniques have been created since that painting. Does that automatically make digital and 3D art better? Is Mona Lisa no longer a marvel of artistic beauty because we have holographic pictures now?
Is Quake 2 inferior to Daikatana because it was made earlier?

He made it rather clear what he thought - he had unrealistic memories of his old favorite game and was hugely disappointed to realize that those memories were false.

 

[friedmetroid]

Yes, but he also made it clear that he thought older games were inferior to newer ones. I understand how childhood memories can distort your perceptions, I actually remembered Sonic Adventure 2 as a good game until I tried it again recently. That doesn't however mean that all games are automatically inferior to their sequels just because the sequels have new features and better graphics.

A lot of things go into someone's opinion of a game, and at the end of the day it's all completely subjective anyway.

That said, I don't think old games deserve trash talk for being old any more than cave paintings deserve trash talk for being inferior to digital paintings.

 

[AceDiamond]

I'm sorry, your argument is just dead now. You're actually arguing against creativity and variety in gameplay at this point, and I just won't debate that. It's simply ridiculous. I'll just say this last thing: Yahtzee loved Portal and you could jump in Portal... but it was basically a useless appendage. You got everywhere using portals, so you didn't ever NEED to jump. Bionic Commando is no different... except they took out the unnecessary option of jumping.

I'm done.

Could you have your head any further up your own arse? That guy quite blatently wasn't arguing against creativity or variety in a game. He was saying that you shouldn't have to rely on one piece of equipment for whole or a game. I think it's a fair comment to say you should be able to jump a realistic height over small obstacles, what's wrong with that?

Because then it ceases to be Bionic Commando, much in the same way Karate ceases to be Karate once you try to use a kendo stick in it. The entire point of the game is "you have a bionic arm to get around in lieu of the jumping you'd do in a typical platform. The arm also functions as an important tool in many places"

How is it that nobody can get this simple and creative concept is beyond me. And no, it's not a fair comment to say "they should alter their creative vision because I don't get it"

 

[Chickenlittle]

I'm sorry, your argument is just dead now. You're actually arguing against creativity and variety in gameplay at this point, and I just won't debate that. It's simply ridiculous. I'll just say this last thing: Yahtzee loved Portal and you could jump in Portal... but it was basically a useless appendage. You got everywhere using portals, so you didn't ever NEED to jump. Bionic Commando is no different... except they took out the unnecessary option of jumping.

I'm done.

Could you have your head any further up your own arse? That guy quite blatently wasn't arguing against creativity or variety in a game. He was saying that you shouldn't have to rely on one piece of equipment for whole or a game. I think it's a fair comment to say you should be able to jump a realistic height over small obstacles, what's wrong with that?

Because then it ceases to be Bionic Commando, much in the same way Karate ceases to be Karate once you try to use a kendo stick in it. The entire point of the game is "you have a bionic arm to get around in lieu of the jumping you'd do in a typical platform. The arm also functions as an important tool in many places"

How is it that nobody can get this simple and creative concept is beyond me. And no, it's not a fair comment to say "they should alter their creative vision because I don't get it"

I believe the point above the above posts is, that they don't have to alter their creative vision; all they need to do is get out of the wheelchair. There are more game mechanics than using the arm, attractive as the concept might seem. Jumping is only one of those.

Another Stifling review. Very nice.

 

[keithburgun]

Yeah, I understand what you were going for with this review - and these two games may have sucked - but you made some statements which I definitely object to.

About Fantasy World Dizzy - the reason you say "of course" it's not the best game ever is that it's got 5 colors and that the main character is a blob? Pac-Man, Galaga, Tetris all fit this description (or worse) and they are some of the greatest most solid games, period.

I think you need to read your own site more often:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_155/4985-Excellence-Never-Goes-out-of-Date

I regret that you have attempted to back up the RETARDED claim that games are "getting better" over time. I think it is equally stupid to say they're getting worse, but technology does not equal fun. I am surprised at you, sir! This coming from a game designer himself who seems to know the fundamentals of design.

 

[Auroch]

Holy shit. Best episode ever by a magnitude of ten.

He desecrates the entire concept of retro gaming and dares any fanboy to rip on him worse than he just ripped on himself.

Bravissimo!

 

[Teraness]

Im not a hardcore gamer and im not old enough to know of the games your exampling but...
It seems like your latest videos seem to be lacking in humor.
I cant really put my finger on whats different from your videos like Guitar hero III and Castle crasher but The approach you take on the games seem to get more dull or... your just going the same way over and over and over. i laughed during your first videos and they intrigued me.
But the later ones felt samey

 

[ovset]

Everyone complaining about the Hitler comment needs to crawl out from under their rock now. The world isn't a shiny place filled with butterflies and rainbow puppy farts; grow some thicker skin and quit crying.

Yahtzee couldn't be more right about the nostalgia. I can't stand the awkward 30+ year-old gamers who insist everything before the 3D era was the beacon of Jesus Christ and all his disciples. They were limited, repetitive, and boring, now go back to your manga collection and sulk alone in the dark.

 

[Chickenlittle]

Im not a hardcore gamer and im not old enough to know of the games your exampling but...
It seems like your latest videos seem to be lacking in humor.
I cant really put my finger on whats different from your videos like Guitar hero III and Castle crasher but it seems to get more dull or.... the same thing...

That would be the corporate advertising and the large paychecks. Paychecks control all content.

 

[yourkie1921]

That said, I don't think old games deserve trash talk for being old any more than cave paintings deserve trash talk for being inferior to digital paintings.

No, but once someone says that cavepaintings were better than anything in the past 350 years we must beat on how they're wrong.

Because then it ceases to be Bionic Commando, much in the same way Karate ceases to be Karate once you try to use a kendo stick in it. The entire point of the game is "you have a bionic arm to get around in lieu of the jumping you'd do in a typical platform. The arm also functions as an important tool in many places"

Interesting concept. One that when I heard about I was very intrigued about. But I refuse to give the creators credit for their concept when they refuse to use a mechanic that's been in every platformer since....I don't know but it's been around since donkey kong and I have no clue whether that's the first platformer with jumping. I don't care how useless it is, I demand the ability to jump. I like the idea of the bionic arm, I really do. And I sure as hell don't want to hear about this game that was fricken LOVED have all the creativity absorbed from it (however I do think it's sort of gimicky if the only interesting part of the game is that you can swing around on a metal arm).

 

[Auroch]

I've disagreed with Yahtzee before, but I found this review to just be outright idiotic.

Yahtzee, you claim to be all for the 'games are art' stance, so I have to wonder if you view art in the same way?

Let's use Mona Lisa as an example. Lots of new and interesting artistic techniques have been created since that painting. Does that automatically make digital and 3D art better? Is Mona Lisa no longer a marvel of artistic beauty because we have holographic pictures now?
Is Quake 2 inferior to Daikatana because it was made earlier?

Have you ever tried to watch a silent movie? Technology hasn't affected 2d art nearly as much as it has music and movies, yet you still see fanboys preferring scratched-up records to lossless digital recordings and claiming black and white films were better. I think comparing those schmucks to retro gamers is entirely fair.

Yahtzee's argument falls apart if you mention games that have outright FAILED to adopt modern conventions with any success. I'll take Mega Man 9 over ZXZero12BattleMission, and any 2d Sonic or Castlevania over any 3d one, but it is tragic to see legacy issues such as the lives system reincarnated to pointlessly frustrate a whole new generation.

The problem with nostalgic games is that they can take you back to a happier time, even while the gameplay itself rapes you unceasingly.

 

[Mischiviktus]

I never gave the Commando a chance, but I did enjoy Castle Crashers, aside from a few bugs, it's sort of fun and addictive, and nothing says teamwork like killing your friends for that princess's kiss....yea, a kiss....would of rather have it if *** ****** ** **** for killing my pals, but oh well.

I would of laugh till I died if he reviewed N+ along with these, chances are ZP would of killed the fuckers who designed some of the levels in real life, because it seems if at least ONE of the testers was able to accomplish in completing the level after dying over a thousand times (got the damned achievement to PROVE I died 100 times to 14-4), then it's fine.

 

[ohellynot]

if yatzee thinks that TP is better that OOC (and the same with mario) then by that logic with each new (proper 3D) game in a series should be better than the previous one wright.
then how come he hates the fact that nintendo keeps re-using the same franchises like it actually hurts him.
similarily if he liked mario sunshine so much then how is his descripton (and quote)
"you can transplant the head of Yoseph Gobells on to the body of a praying mantis and it would still compare favouably to mario sunshine" meaning that mario n64 is even worse that though it is GENERALLY (just in case you hate it) considered to be one of the best games off all time

 

[MB202]

"Photo courtesy of Dave Bullock, EECUE"

...Which photo?

Also, I get the feeling that all the feedback on Yahtzee's statement on Mario 64/Ocarina of Time and Sunshine/Twilight Princess is going to cause a sequel to this video to add some qualifying statements, like with the Prince of Persia Trilogy and Mailbox Showdown videos.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Well, if we're going to be on Mailbox Showdown 2;

Yahtzee, your videos were excellent to begin with, and watching the old ones still brings a smile to my face and a song to my rotted heart.

Lately though, your videos are just "Rah Rah Family Guy Joke Rah Rah HATE IT ALL Rah Rah Obnoxious reference for lulz and large post counts."

It's sad. That's all. You've turned from Guillermo Del Toro into Uwe Boll.

 

[Russian Redneck]

Ugh, this was just painful to watch. Croshaw is really dragging his ass now.

Of course, if I were to say his stuff from months ago was better I'd probably be accused of nostalgia, which this video tells me is bad. So instead I'll have to assume it was probably never good to begin with.

Yahtzee isn't saying nostalgia is bad. The only thing he's accusing of being "bad" is us allowing our nostalgia to cover our eyes in the colorful tint of our days of youth, when we were too naive and stupid enough to look past a game's flaws and faults and think it was anything other than the most amazing fucking thing in existence. Nostalgia is not a bad thing; allowing nostalgia to cloud your better judgment is.

lrn2comprehend

 

[AceDiamond]

Interesting concept. One that when I heard about I was very intrigued about. But I refuse to give the creators credit for their concept when they refuse to use a mechanic that's been in every platformer since....I don't know but it's been around since donkey kong and I have no clue whether that's the first platformer with jumping. I don't care how useless it is, I demand the ability to jump. I like the idea of the bionic arm, I really do. And I sure as hell don't want to hear about this game that was fricken LOVED have all the creativity absorbed from it (however I do think it's sort of gimicky if the only interesting part of the game is that you can swing around on a metal arm).

I find the game far more interesting than just the "gimmick" as you put it. In fact your demand to be able to jump is just further putting the point across that you'd rather something be safe and familiar rather than innovative and challenging. You'd rather not play the game by its own damn rules because you can't fathom them. It's really not that hard. At all. honest.

And I don't see people complaining about how you couldn't jump in Goldeneye

Or Perfect Dark

Or Timesplitters

Despite the fact jumping in an FPS was around since Doom.

 

[yourkie1921]

ANd all of those games aren't good platformers. I want the innovation. I want to HAVE to use that arm. I just don't want to have to use it to accomplish the same goals that I could accomplish by jumping.

You'd rather not play the game by its own damn rules because you can't fathom them.

I can fathom them and I don't want to ever have the disgraceful knowledge of remembering a 2d performer where you can't jump any distance at all..