Ain't no homo gonna make it to heaven

[General Vengeance]

One small video for a narrow minded belief system, one giant leap for Atheism.

 

[Aprilgold]

Then why do people believe in it huh, tough guy? If there exists no heaven nor hell how do you know. Irregardless of what you may think and my atheist belief aside, we have no proof of what happens when you die. "That can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" works for both of us.

I know it to be fact because God spoke to me, he directed me to the sacred tablets sold in isle seven at Home Depot. These new scriptures revealed that there is no Heaven, instead those who are deemed to be cool enough are allowed to go to God's special bowling alley on Tuesday nights. Only Tuesdays though, other than that we just stay dead, alive one day a week, bowling and stuff, God seems like a pretty cool guy.

Really? I talked to him while he was drunk and he let it spell that he eats babies of people who gave birth to them.

 

[Therumancer]

[

Let me clear this up...

You are saying that racism, sexism, and homophobia have their valid points? Is this correct?

Please explain what any of them could possibly be, this should be entertaining.

No, I am saying that it's not entirely that catagory. You have chosen to put it there, but that's on you, not the situation itself.

That's the last thing I'm going to say in regards to this. If your curious, go check out what he other side has to say with an open mind, but I doubt you will. The truth is somewhere between there and your current position as far as I'm concerned.

I am not going to be baited into actually argueing the issue of gay rights, no matter how off handedly. Indeed I've been very careful in what I've said to avoid that. What's more my point has kind of been made by the responses I've received, since this was all about an ongoing deadlock, and backlash. There are people just as fanatical on the other side, who if I said the same thing and referred them to people like you, I'd get the same basic response and attempts to turn it into a fight on the subject rather than just taking it as an explanation of why the conflict exists. As long as people like you on this side, and people like them on the others keep it up, it's going to be an endless cycle and nothing will be resolved.

 

[emeraldrafael]

You cant raelly call it child abuse. Every parent or realy any figure around children for extended periods of time teaches them stereotypes and instills some kinda bigoted view. Doesnt make it right, of course.

 

[Simonoly]

Oh so that's how you ruin your child's life. Some incredible parenting skills there.

 

[Joel Bridge]

This make me think of my aunt who both a very openly gay tomboy/woman, and very christian with not even little bit of guilt or shame for her sexuality.

She put her faith in the message not organization.

 

[Kashrlyyk]

Religion on its own, isn't a bad thing.
...

You are wrong it is a bad thing. Or are you now trying to tell me that people believing so strongly that they pray for their child while it is dying from Diabetes is not a problem of religion?

But then again, you never defined what you mean with "religion".

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

Lesbians are the single greatest creation God has ever made.

End of effing argument.

 

[Saulkar]

[

Let me clear this up...

You are saying that racism, sexism, and homophobia have their valid points? Is this correct?

Please explain what any of them could possibly be, this should be entertaining.

No, I am saying that it's not entirely that catagory. You have chosen to put it there, but that's on you, not the situation itself.

That's the last thing I'm going to say in regards to this. If your curious, go check out what he other side has to say with an open mind, but I doubt you will. The truth is somewhere between there and your current position as far as I'm concerned.

I am not going to be baited into actually argueing the issue of gay rights, no matter how off handedly. Indeed I've been very careful in what I've said to avoid that. What's more my point has kind of been made by the responses I've received, since this was all about an ongoing deadlock, and backlash. There are people just as fanatical on the other side, who if I said the same thing and referred them to people like you, I'd get the same basic response and attempts to turn it into a fight on the subject rather than just taking it as an explanation of why the conflict exists. As long as people like you on this side, and people like them on the others keep it up, it's going to be an endless cycle and nothing will be resolved.

I think I found the definitive list of reasons why gay people should not be allowed to marry.

1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control.
2. Heterosexual marriages are valid becasue they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can't legally get married because the world needs more children.
3. Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if Gay marriage is allowed, since Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
5. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are property, blacks can't marry whites, and divorce is illegal.
6. Gay marriage should be decided by people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities.
7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire counrty. That's why we have only one religion in America.
8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
10. Children can never suceed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven't adapted to things like cars or longer lifespans.
12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "seperate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Seperate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as seperate marriages for gays and lesbians will.

These are literally the best reasons I've seen given as to why gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry.

I see what you did there. Unfortunately I cannot find the video on YouTube anymore.

 

[bat32391]

I didn't know Ice Cream and Cake people wrote the bible! You learn something new everyday.

Desert: A dry, barren area of land, esp. one covered with sand.
Dessert: The sweet course eaten at the end of a meal.

Remember, dessert has two s's because it's sweeter than a desert

I know I just couldn't resist making the joke.

 

[Syzygy23]

Religion on its own, isn't a bad thing.

Stupid people who use religion as a shield is what sucks.

If there was no religion, morons would find some other following to get behind to voice their bigoted views.

Remember when science told us the best thing for someone with a bump on their head was to coat them in leeches and then lock them away in a cramped room full of insane pants-shitting hoboes and serial rapists AKA an Asylum?

Man, we TOTALLY missed out on the Victorian period. If we ever had a problem with someone, all we had to do was give them a bump on the head and claim they were "possessed by foul spirits and bad humours." and BAM! Problem solved.

 

[Olas]

Even atheism is a religion of a sort, though one propped by a common disbelief.

Atheism is a religion in the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Whether you want to actually define atheism as a religion or not is a matter of semantics. It doesn't change the fact that the core atheist belief is a religious one.

 

[Lieju]

I could slew around a few quotes, like Napoleon's "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich," but I don't think it would fit the given context. Plus, people get mad.

Whyyyyy the sudden influx of homophobes though? I swear it wasn't this bad a few years ago.

Backlash. The very usage of terms like "homophobe" explains exactly why your seeing some major responses from the other direction. Basically it's an issue that has the US divided roughly 50-50, for a lot of differant reasons. The pro-gay movement has been increasingly offensive, belligerant, and unwilling to even consider the anti-gay side of things.

I'd be interested to know what kind of people you consider 'pro-gay' exactly...

There certainly are some nutjob gay-activists who want more than equal rights, but the same could be said about any issue, and the nutjobs aren't really representative of the movement.

What I want, is equal rights, and that no-one is persecuted for being gay, bi, or straight.
Why should I even consider that someone should be?

Such a discussion will derail the thread so I'm not going to say much more about it. The thing is that your position by it's nature is all or nothing, don't be surprised when facing a counter point that is exactly the same way from the other direction, and treats all of your sources and your very position with the same degree of scorn that things continue endlessly and keep moving back and forth with relative levels of opposition.

Neither side wants a middle ground, to the pro-gay movement and anti-gay movement it's anathema, however I believe that like with most issues that's where an eventual resolution lies.

As I know from experience, if I was to bother to present such a middle ground, I'd have all the liberals on this site attack me as some kind of bigot. If I went to a site with a more conservative prescence and said the same thing I'd be attacked as some kind of new age hippy who is probably a closeted gay, so I increasingly don't bother. The uncompromising exteremists on both sides can fight back and forth until they begin to realize it's pointless. Neither side is going to win in any meaningful fashion as things stand now.

Here's the mistake you make. You are talking about the extreme sides of both spectrums, and of course, as with any subject, if you phrase the question with examples that are both totally insane, the right course of action would be in the middle, and you can pretend to be all morally superior because you are smart enough to realise being an extremist nutjob is a bad thing.

However, this misrepresents the issue, and the statistics you yourself referenced.

US is not divided 50-50 to people who want to kill all the gay people and flamboyant gays who despise heterosexuals and think they are superior.

The statistic refers to people who either think that gays should have equal rights, or do not.

Think of how the African-American Civil Rights Movement influenced US; there certainly were nutjobs on both sides, but do you think the correct response would have been 'let's give the blacks some rights, and try to see things from the racist perspective'?

Also,

As I know from experience, if I was to bother to present such a middle ground, I'd have all the liberals on this site attack me as some kind of bigot. If I went to a site with a more conservative prescence and said the same thing I'd be attacked as some kind of new age hippy who is probably a closeted gay, so I increasingly don't bother. The uncompromising exteremists on both sides can fight back and forth until they begin to realize it's pointless. Neither side is going to win in any meaningful fashion as things stand now.

Considering you weren't even willing to tell me what you consider those 'two sides' to be, it seems to me you you just want to pretend you represent sanity in between two crazy warring factions.

I might be wrong, but given how you are not ready to defend your position or even define it...

If you didn't want to be a part of discussion like this, you shouldn't have commented on a thread like this.

As far as I'm concerned, I want a world where gays and straight people and bisexuals have equal rights, and I'm not going to settle to some middle ground of 'let's oppress gays, but just do it a bit'.

 

[ZtH]

Having visited a conservative forum and braved the hells therein and found no valid reasons for not allowing gay marriage. Twelve pages was more than enough to show that that forum at least could not produce good reasons against gay marriage. There were some good arguments for on the other hand.

 

[bandman232]

indoctrination

Damnit! The reapers have started on our youth!

The word i belive means to influence one's thoughts. It's not exclusive to the Reapers.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

... and there you go, making my point for me. Everything you said right there pretty much proves the point and explains why the conflict continues, remains deadlocked, and sees an ebb and flow, periods of backlash, etc...

Things won't change until your side admits that there is validity to the other side and it isn't entirely the kind of issue you have convinced yourself it is. Likewise the other side has to do something very similar when it comes to a lot of the faith based arguements. Once that happens, it will be possible to see an actual resolution.

It's a big, bloody shame there isn't any validity to the other side then, isn't it?

Again. Well being of people trumps religious tradition. That is how things should be. Furthermore... The christian faith, and indeed no other faith, nor any of its believers, will take any harm whatsoever once people with differing sexualities have the same rights and status as anyone. They have no reason to not grow up and revise some of their outdated and cruel practices, like indeed many churches have.

No, it's a big, bloody, shame that your not even willing to consider the other side. Simply saying that something exists doesn't mean that I am here as their defender, especially seeing as I represent a third party acknowledging valid points on both ends of the conflict.

You are correct about religious tradition though, and I myself have pointed out that it's an aspect of this that the anti-gay side needs to drop.

Consider the side that is giving no arguments? What a surprise!

You are defending them. You claim they have valid points. Funnily enough you never provide them, you just claim they exist. And you claim to be a third party that is oh so knowledgeable without demonstrating it. It's as if you think saying 'third party' gives you magical authority that puts you above needing to demonstrate your claims.

"You claim they have valid points. Funnily enough you never provide them,"

Do you provide any? We don't need many points apart from there's no fucking reason for gay marriage to be wrong. Why is it wrong? You can't just say that it's your belief without any reason.
I don't see any reason why the pro gay side is lacking any validity, but I don't see any good arguments from anti-gays other then "It's icky".

 

[General Twinkletoes]

... and there you go, making my point for me. Everything you said right there pretty much proves the point and explains why the conflict continues, remains deadlocked, and sees an ebb and flow, periods of backlash, etc...

Things won't change until your side admits that there is validity to the other side and it isn't entirely the kind of issue you have convinced yourself it is. Likewise the other side has to do something very similar when it comes to a lot of the faith based arguements. Once that happens, it will be possible to see an actual resolution.

It's a big, bloody shame there isn't any validity to the other side then, isn't it?

Again. Well being of people trumps religious tradition. That is how things should be. Furthermore... The christian faith, and indeed no other faith, nor any of its believers, will take any harm whatsoever once people with differing sexualities have the same rights and status as anyone. They have no reason to not grow up and revise some of their outdated and cruel practices, like indeed many churches have.

No, it's a big, bloody, shame that your not even willing to consider the other side. Simply saying that something exists doesn't mean that I am here as their defender, especially seeing as I represent a third party acknowledging valid points on both ends of the conflict.

You are correct about religious tradition though, and I myself have pointed out that it's an aspect of this that the anti-gay side needs to drop.

Consider the side that is giving no arguments? What a surprise!

You are defending them. You claim they have valid points. Funnily enough you never provide them, you just claim they exist. And you claim to be a third party that is oh so knowledgeable without demonstrating it. It's as if you think saying 'third party' gives you magical authority that puts you above needing to demonstrate your claims.

"You claim they have valid points. Funnily enough you never provide them,"

Do you provide any? We don't need many points apart from there's no fucking reason for gay marriage to be wrong. Why is it wrong? You can't just say that it's your belief without any reason.
I don't see any reason why the pro gay side is lacking any validity, but I don't see any good arguments from anti-gays other then "It's icky".

...

Why don't you read the conversation again before you start, okay?

I actually just realised I quoted the wrong person, meant to be directed at the other guy

Sorry, I'm very tired

 

[General Twinkletoes]

Even atheism is a religion of a sort, though one propped by a common disbelief.

Atheism is a religion in the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Whether you want to actually define atheism as a religion or not is a matter of semantics. It doesn't change the fact that the core atheist belief is a religious one.

Nope, religion is about faith, atheism is about having an explanation. It's not religious at all.

 

[ELD3RGoD]

This is why I dislike Religion in general. Hopefully the kid will have some intelligence when he grows up so he can get his own opinion of things, much like I got away from my parents beliefs that all Germans are Nazi's and all brown skinned people are 'Pakis.' Knowledge is key.

On a different note, I don't understand why people need an organized religion and use the 'it gives us comfort for when we die' line. I make up my own Gods as I go, give them names, draw them and as much as I believe in science and distaste religion, that is all the comfort I need. I know they aren't real, they just give me something to think about and my idea of 'Heaven' is my own. I don't need someone telling me it has pearly gates or virgins or any shit like that. They follow and believe a book, fanatically, that contradicts itself a million times and then try and push it on others, fuck 'em. (I will add this is a vocal minority, but it's the vocal ones who make everyone else look bad.)

Sorry, had a preacher at my door earlier.

 

[Vivid Kazumi]

Religion on its own, isn't a bad thing.

Good intentions always find a way of corrupting themselves...

Not all of them.

Cheese on toast will never be evil.

I'm afraid toasted cheese sandwiches have already joined the other side.

Spoiler

never have i wanted to puke more in life