Analyst Calls The Old Republic a "WoW Clone"

Leviathan_

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Another problem with this game is EA.

EA already ruined Warhammer Online, which was a great game by the way, by splitting up the playerbase by continent.
 

Britisheagle

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Aren't many MMO's the same? I'm sorry but I bet that WoW stole some ideas from other games out before them, its the same with every genre! CoD and other FPS games, cover-based shooting in 3rd person shooters etc.
Unfortuantly WoW has such a large fanbase and due to this they are likely to defend their game from possible competitors. Personally? I like Star Wars and even enjoyed Galaxies, to an extent.
I'm glad they are mixing it up a bit and making it more like other MMOs so that, hopefully, this one will be more successful.


Oh and it may mean we finally get KOTOR3. Just sayin'.
 

Puzzlenaut

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Woodsey said:
He also said of Tatooine (probably the most iconic planet in Star Wars): "I don't get why they went with this desert area to show off the game."

Clearly he was very enthused for the whole thing from the get-go and has a great amount of knowledge around the whole thing.

Anyway, others I've seen who've played it have been largely positive.
being a massive star wars fanboy would only make him biased in its favour. This way we get a much more honest opinion based in fact not opinion.
 

Cid Silverwing

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Lacsapix said:
every MMO is like WoW in some ways
Except the interface. If there's one thing NO ONE EVER wants to rip off, it's the user-friendly interfaces from WoW. Why?
 

Woodsey

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Puzzlenaut said:
Woodsey said:
He also said of Tatooine (probably the most iconic planet in Star Wars): "I don't get why they went with this desert area to show off the game."

Clearly he was very enthused for the whole thing from the get-go and has a great amount of knowledge around the whole thing.

Anyway, others I've seen who've played it have been largely positive.
being a massive star wars fanboy would only make him biased in its favour. This way we get a much more honest opinion based in fact not opinion.
I don't think that knowing what Tatooine is and knowing its relevance counts as being a fan boy.

Leviathan_ said:
Another problem with this game is EA.

EA already ruined Warhammer Online, which was a great game by the way, by splitting up the playerbase by continent.
Not happening with TOR.

drisky said:
A lot of the innovation will come in story telling rather than game play. This like dialogue options and fully voiced characters are what I believe sets it apart, I don't need to play the game to know that is something no other mmo is trying.

Xanthious said:
Finally and most importantly this isn't the same Bioware that brought us KOTOR and Baldur's Gate. This is the Bioware that was eaten up and regurgitated out by EA and decided that recycling the same dungeon throughout the entire game in Dragon Age 2 was a fine thing to do. This is the same Bioware that has chosen to "streamline" gameplay lately to cater to the lowest common denominator rather than hold them to the same standard as the games that came before them. All said I wouldn't trust this Bioware to check my email without EA butting in and screwing things up.
Its not really the Bioware that brought us Dragon Age 2 either, they made a new Austin branch just for Old Republic.
There are still plenty of BioWare employees from other studios working there; they don't hire an entirely new work force. Just like Ubisoft haven't with their new studio that's working on Splinter Cell.
 

Dr. wonderful

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fundayz said:
Dr. wonderful said:
I don't give a flying f***. I'm going to play it. Seems like the the "Analyst" dosen't know much about MMOS OR Star Wars.

Why do we always get the dumb ones?
Not only is Doug Creutz the Vice President of Cowen Group he is also a Senior Reseach Analyst focused on media an entertainment.

And before you say "I've never hear of them", Cowen group is a New York based investing firm founded in 1918 with ~$347 million annual revenue and branches all over the world, including London, Hong Kong, Tokyo and Munich.

Putting quotation marks around his title doesn't take away his MBA, specialization in media and entertainment, his MS or his AB from Duke University. He knows more about media, entertainment and their market that you can ever hope to know.

This doesn't prove him right about everything he thinks, but give credit where credit is due or else you're just a troll.
Looks like I touch a Nerve.

Oh well, still going to buy it, and play it. Also, just because I don't like him, dosen't mean I'm a troll.

I happen to be a okay guy.
 

PrinceofPersia

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Cid SilverWing said:
Except the interface. If there's one thing NO ONE EVER wants to rip off, it's the user-friendly interfaces from WoW. Why?
Cause it is the most cluttery interface imaginable. Which would explain all the UI add-ons I see on cursed gaming site. Personally I've played the demos and I want to play more of SWTOR end of discussion. If you don't like it, awesome I don't care about your opinion.
 

fundayz

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Britisheagle said:
Aren't many MMO's the same? I'm sorry but I bet that WoW stole some ideas from other games out before them
Yes they are and that's the problem. SWTOR is just adding to the pile of unimaginative, cookie-cutter MMO's out there. That's why many people, including myself, have just moved away from the MMO genre in general: nothing truly new has come out.

Sure new games have come out, but they all play the same.

Britisheagle said:
Its the same with every genre! CoD and other FPS games, cover-based shooting in 3rd person shooters etc.
Sure, all games copy features from similar games but no genre does it to the ridiculous extent that MMORPG's do. Yes, some FPS are very similar and people DO complain about them; for example, the CoD series has been widely critiqued since MW1 for taking the same content making some tweaks and new maps then selling it as if it was a brand new game.

But more than that, even FPS games have more innovation than current MMO's:

- Metroid Prime
- Call of Duty: Modern Warfare
- Team Fortress 2
- Left 4 Dead 2
- Counter Strike
- Ghost Recon

All these games are FPS's and all play VERY differently. If anything, bringing up FPS shows how even the most uninnovative of game genre is STILL more innovative than current MMO's.

Dr. wonderful said:
...Yeah, a game I don't even care about.

I'm very picking about my PC games.
Just out of curiosity, what do you not find interesting about GW2?

I ask because GW2, like SWTOR, is aiming to provide a quality RPG story worthy of a single player RPG as well as pushing innovative combat, lack of a trinity, dynamic content, World PvP, experimentation-based crafting AND it doesn't have a subscription free.

I just don't see any reason Not to try out GW2.
 

rsvp42

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adamtm said:
The criteria to make a WoW clone:

-a trinity based class system
-a level system designed to separate players into tiers of content
-a quest system based on gear-dependency (i.e. you play for gear to reach a next gear-tier)
-round-based dice roll combat (no hitboxes, no skill combat)
-non-player based economy
-grouping based around the class trinity
-instanced content based on the class trinity (dungeons)
-pve raid content
-separation of leveling and end-game content (leveling -> raiding)
-direct control over one character (as opposed to squads etc.)
-trinity-based talent trees
-leveling-content-zones
-PVE combat focus
Not to nitpick for nitpicking's sake, but you mentioned trinity three times when "trinity-based class system" covers all the rest. Also "direct control over one character" seems like a flimsy addition meant to pad out the list. And saying that the combat doesn't require skill doesn't seem accurate, though you're right in that it isn't an "active" roly-poly sort of deal. Oh and "a level system designed to separate players into tiers of content" seems to be the same bullet point as "leveling-content-zones." I understand the point you're making, just trying to weed out some repetition and whatnot.

adamtm said:
PS: Fanboys apparently think that "WoW Clone" means that a game is inherently bad or something, i cant fathom why.
Okay, so apparently "clone" means something different when you put a game's name in front of it. I don't get that, but okay. However, the negative connotations of the term are implicit in its typical usage. This analyst-guy isn't using it as a term of endearment or respect for its quality/appeal. He's not saying "it's a WoW clone in that it will succeed greatly and appeal to the same audience." He--and just about everyone else that trots out the term--are using it negatively to say what they really mean to say: dated and familiar.

Ultimately, a large number of MMO gamers will pass on TOR. This is inevitable. Just as a large number of RTS gamers probably passed on Starcraft 2 when they called it a step backwards in RTS design or too traditional (amazing what good scenario design and balance can do for the success of such games). TOR is a traditional themepark MMO with some more modern elements mixed in, set in a different universe with a different story, based on a different aesthetic. Those who like that style of game will enjoy a fully-voiced story that differs in tone and specific events with each playthrough. Those that don't like that and think it's too dated and familiar have some great alternatives in games like GW2 and TERA, assuming high fantasy is still their thing.

I mean even if we agree on what the term "WoW clone" means and we agree that TOR fits that definition, this analyst failed to mention how that means, as you said, "that a game is inherently bad." He clearly thinks it feels old-fashioned, but doesn't elaborate and instead relies on dismissive exaggeration, calling it "a World of Warcraft clone with Star Wars character skins and the BioWare RPG nice/nasty dialogue tree mechanism bolted on for non-player character conversations." The conversation mechanic pervades every area of the game and does away with the old quest-text accept/decline box. The "skins" he's talking about are 17 new worlds full of completely unique content in a completely different IP (and not like Rift vs. WoW different, as those are both high fantasy, mostly low-tech IPs). He's being dismissive to an astonishing degree.
 

rsvp42

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fundayz said:
Not only is Doug Creutz the Vice President of Cowen Group he is also a Senior Reseach Analyst focused on media an entertainment.

And before you say "I've never hear of them", Cowen group is a New York based investing firm founded in 1918 with ~$347 million annual revenue and branches all over the world, including London, Hong Kong, Tokyo and Munich.

Putting quotation marks around his title doesn't take away his MBA, specialization in media and entertainment, his MS or his AB from Duke University. He knows more about media, entertainment and their market that you can ever hope to know.

This doesn't prove him right about everything he thinks, but give credit where credit is due or else you're just a troll.
Doesn't make his personal opinion any more relevant. It just means he gets more press and is better at making financial projections (which are curiously absent from this article and the source). We don't know what his experience with MMOs is and there's no reason to take his WoW-clone claim any more seriously than another player. What I mean is that we can throw this blurb in with all the rest and leave it at that. No reason to give him more attention than anyone else who has played it.
 

fundayz

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rsvp42 said:
Doesn't make his personal opinion any more relevant. We don't know what his experience with MMOs is and there's no reason to take his WoW-clone claim any more seriously than another player. What I mean is that we can throw this blurb in with all the rest and leave it at that. No reason to give him more attention than anyone else who has played it.
Actually it does. Unlike the average player, his livelihood and reputation depend on his ability to analyze and make predictions about upcoming products. Sure, his job focuses more on the financial aspect of media but you still need to understand said media in order to make accurate predictions.

The fact that he an experienced entertainment analyst and vice president of a reputable investment group gives more credibility to his statements than the average person who got a hands-on.

We don't know how his experience with MMO's but considering that a certain current MMO is one of, if not the, most profitable entertainment products and that he specializes in media and entertainment, I think it's a safe to assume he knows a thing or two.
 

Amphoteric

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Yeah whatever, I'll be buying this game regardless of what anyone says about it. If there is no kotor 3 then this will have to do.

At least it is set in the awesome Kotor Universe, to me KotOR never felt like a Star Wars game, it felt like something completely new.
 

rsvp42

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fundayz said:
rsvp42 said:
Doesn't make his personal opinion any more relevant. We don't know what his experience with MMOs is and there's no reason to take his WoW-clone claim any more seriously than another player. What I mean is that we can throw this blurb in with all the rest and leave it at that. No reason to give him more attention than anyone else who has played it.
Actually it does. Unlike the average player, his livelihood and reputation depend on his ability to analyze and make predictions about upcoming products. Sure, his job focuses more on the financial aspect of media but you still need to understand said media in order to make accurate predictions.

The fact that he an experienced entertainment analyst and vice president of a reputable investment group gives more credibility to his statements than the average person who got a hands-on.

We don't know how his experience with MMO's but considering that a certain current MMO is one of, if not the, most profitable entertainment products and that he specializes in media and entertainment, I think it's a safe to assume he knows a thing or two.
But what I'm saying is that a single person's gut-level reaction to a game isn't any more significant just because it happens to be his job. It's still a personal opinion based on his playtime. There are thousands of opinions out there with varying degrees of praise and criticism. My own time with it felt quite different than WoW on a gut level, even if I ignore all the obvious differences.

I remember when The Incredibles came out, the first review I read in a local paper was pretty negative. This was a man who's livelihood depends on understanding films and critiquing them, yet today The Incredibles is still one of my favorite films. Was that reviewer "wrong?" No, but his review was ultimately irrelevant to my experience with the movie. I'm not saying TOR will be the same thing, but I am saying that we don't need to put too much stock into one guy's opinion, even if it is his job. We should just read it and file it away, maybe bring it up later if we end up agreeing with it. We don't need to act smug towards the "fanboys" as if one guy's opinion is gospel.
 

2xDouble

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I'm sorry Bioware. I liked Mass Effect 1 and 2; I love Star Wars; but I just can't buy this game as it is now. The only impressive things about it are the cutscenes, stumbling down SquareEnix's rocky road (and we all know how that turned out, don't we XIV?). The gameplay doesn't hold attention (during the 1h30m "leaked footage", the dude spent at least 30 minutes of it standing around not playing the game; clearly not reading skill/quest descriptions or studying the map either), and the quest objectives are uncreative at best (kill 10 robots, kill 15 lizard things, collect 8 random drops from specific mob alpha... really?). And not one word on the touted space combat, which is pretty much SW:TOR's only other unique feature (a bad sign to Halo: Reach fans). Maybe this would have been better single/co-op player KotOR 3, or another TV series.

I'm not saying it doesn't look like fun, but there are more impressive games out there for my money.