Batman is exactly why I don't PC game

[mad825]

Windows updates are seamless and most of the time not very intrusive

"Hey! Hey! Hey, buddy! Hey, buddy! Hey! Fuck you, buddy, you must restart, tolololo".

Not intrusive? They are possibly the worst updates I've ever seen. Skype, I think, holds the first place, though...and that's also a Microsoft property. Why in the names of all the gods, would they force me to restart? Worse yet it keeps popping up that fucking reminder box. "Oh, you're doing something else? Screw that, imma take the focus off it. Oh, you were typing? Sure, not only would I take the focus away, but I'll interpret space as 'Press the button'." And yeah - the focused button is "restart now".

Pro tip; don't update till you go to bed or finished with the PC. You should be able to let download only then press the shutdown button within the start menu. It will update when shutting down and booting if necessary.

A good majority of the time it won't kill you if the updates are left for one day longer.

 

[BadNewDingus]

This is why I went VR.

*dies from bad games ... and stairs.*

 

[RedDeadFred]

See, as a PC gamer, I would wait for Batman to have a future sale (if I was interested in it that is) before buying it anyway. This usually gets around any kind of major issues that plague ports at launch. I haven't bought a game at launch in quite some time. For me, the great sales are part of the reason to do PC gaming. Depending on how many games you want, you end up saving money in the long run.

 

[Metalmacher]

Windows updates are seamless and most of the time not very intrusive

"Hey! Hey! Hey, buddy! Hey, buddy! Hey! Fuck you, buddy, you must restart, tolololo".

Not intrusive? They are possibly the worst updates I've ever seen. Skype, I think, holds the first place, though...and that's also a Microsoft property. Why in the names of all the gods, would they force me to restart? Worse yet it keeps popping up that fucking reminder box. "Oh, you're doing something else? Screw that, imma take the focus off it. Oh, you were typing? Sure, not only would I take the focus away, but I'll interpret space as 'Press the button'." And yeah - the focused button is "restart now".

Pro tip; don't update till you go to bed or finished with the PC. You should be able to let download only then press the shutdown button within the start menu. It will update when shutting down and booting if necessary.

A good majority of the time it won't kill you if the updates are left for one day longer.

I think the problem has more to do with the principle of Microsoft taking away control from you. There are moments when it's necessary like when there's a BSOD, but just like that when the OS is running fine is kinda shitty.

Anyway, on topic, I game on a laptop, cuz I'm at college and I need to move between places on weekly basis, plus I use it during my classes as well. That's a comfort that no console (other than portables) can give me. So yeah, until the day I'll be able to place my roots, I'm gaming on a laptop exclusively.

 

[DoPo]

I said MOST of the time. Most updates install seamlessly. Some of those security updates are a completely different story.

Even then, they're not really a very big problem if you just dont leave your computer on 24/7.

Pro tip; don't update till you go to bed or finished with the PC. You should be able to let download only then press the shutdown button within the start menu. It will update when shutting down and booting if necessary.

A good majority of the time it won't kill you if the updates are left for one day longer.

I leave my PC on 24/7. I boot it approximately once a month...because of updates.

Even then, my situation doesn't change the fact the recommended settings automatically download and install updates. The one and only time I forgot to change that, it not only installed the updates, at one point it popped up a prompt that said "I'll restart in 15 seconds, if you don't stop me". I did stop it. The first time around. At some point I went to fetch a drink and WHAM, Windows improved my experience by restarting and thus nuking the entire session in my absence. I quickly amended that since.

The updates are far from being fine "most of the time", considering that you are forced to restart at least every few weeks. They are far from non-intrusive if they could even say "Fuck you" and just restart anyway. They are far from either if that's the default behaviour.

 

[Mike Richards]

Speaking of AC: Unity - did they ever fix it? I have it installed to my Xbox One since it came with it, but I didn't play it because I heard it was broken as hell.

Can't personally speak to the One but I just ended up getting the PC version on the steam summer sale cause it was basically free with Rogue, and in the three or so hours I've spent with it I've actually had fewer glitches then I have with the three or so hours I've spent with its compatriot. I can get a solid mid-30s on full settings which admittedly isn't great, but it'll average mid-50s with a few small tweeks that actually don't degrade the image too much for me, and both visually and input-wise it still manages to wear a slightly sub-optimal FPS very well. Maybe one or two good instances of pop-in that I've noticed and that's it.

So far it might actually be turning into one of my favorite entries in the series. Believe me, no one is more surprised then I am.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

No, the console version will just run like crap forever and it and it's tons of DLC will be priced higher for years to come.

Console games run perfectly fine. There's barely any DLC even worth purchasing.

Perhaps after working with PCs all day you guys are tired of dealing with one more?

It's all about time for me. I'm able to spend more of my gaming time actually gaming on a console vs PC.

So you knowingly open yourself to the possibility of a game not working out of the box. Windows updates are seamless and most of the time not very intrusive, so if you want things to run out of the box, you have to let it update automatically. Same goes for drivers as well. I'm sure that if you don't let your consoles update their firmware automatically, you'll find yourself staring at a download/installation screen when you try to run a recent game.

Shouldn't the game come with the software it needs to play? If you bought a physical copy of a PC game because you don't have internet, you should be able to play the game. Like console games that require a certain firmware version or higher come with that firmware on the disc. You very rarely have to update the firmware of a console to play a game (if you do, it's on the disc) unless you want to play online, you don't have to download and update the firmware even if you're prompted to. And what DoPo said about Windows Updates, I hate them, I don't need them so what's the point of potentially messing up my system? I literally don't have anything automatically update from my computer to my console to my phone.

Whilst I have not personally played AC Unity to know, Skyrim issue was exclusive to PS3. The X360 didn't have the issue, and PCs were so far beyond not getting the issue it wasn't funny. Funnily enough, today, PC is the most stable build of Skyrim with most of the bugs fixed in unofficial patches. Neat huh?

As for consoles rarely having more issues... its why my PC has never had an issue, but my mate's Xbox RRODd. Or why my PC doesn't overheat, but playing my Playstation I have to save, turn it off for ten minutes, then try again every couple of hours because that shit can't handle being in a video cabinet whilst my PC can handle being buried under a pile of books, clothes and next to my heating vent without giving a shit.

I'll grant, PC gamers get more shit ports, but that's because there are more games that can be ported from Console to PC than the other way around. Tell Firaxis to port Civ V to the PS4 and see how well it works for you. Odds are, it'll be shit. But then, that's why I don't buy consoles [innocent face]

The Skyrim issue is in all platforms. My friends played Skyrim on PS3 and only had quest problems I believe.

Last-gen consoles had issues because they had to use lead free solder for stupid reasons. Anyways, we're talking about software, not hardware. And last-gen was the only time my console ever broke from NES to PS4 now.

It's not even about shit ports, it's about games not working satisfactory or working at all. Bayonetta on PS3 is a shit-port but it still works and is very playable.

An effect that is very easily explained by the fact that those that have a bad experience are more likely to comment online than those who have the game work fine. There's also the fact that people on the PC know if they ask for help, there's likely to be something they can do - which means more people comment - as opposed to consoles where if it doesn't work you know there's nothing you can do, and just go return it for a refund instead.
Funnily enough though, I've seen plenty of console players complain about unplayable games too. Like the new Mortal Combat X for instance...

A good percentage of PC gamers literally couldn't play Splinter Cell Blacklist. MKX seems to have had server issues (from quickly Googling) on consoles and the PC version had more issues like lots of gamers not being able to play it and low FPS. It's rather funny your game example only ended being another point in my favor.

Again, it simply comes down to this: Will I be able to play a console game? Yes. Will I be able to play a PC game? Probably, but maybe not.

You can't sit there and tell me a better looking game isn't better than a worse looking game, all other things equal.
You can buy and sell a physical copy of the PC version too, so your point is moot. And that version will STILL be cheaper to buy.
The console isn't cheaper. This: http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/wiki/builds#wiki_the_next-gen_crusher out-does it slightly performance wise to my understanding (and carries all the advantages of a PC). Factor in the fact that console games tend to cost more, the controllers can cost god knows how much, paying for online each month to use your own internet, the fact that PC has abundant sales, the fact that PC has a metric fuckton of free games etc, etc, the even if the PC isn't cheaper in the short term (depending on what build you want), give it a year or so and you'll have saved more money than buying a console AND gotten a better experience.

Sure a game looking better is good but it ever so slightly increases my enjoyment of the game. I bought the Team ICO PS3 HD collection and it was nice having better graphics for those games but I'd maybe rate the HD versions like 0.1 higher than the PS2 versions if I was scoring each version, they were still the same games.

How can you sell a copy of a PC game that comes with an activation code like say GTAV? Note: I'm not sure if a majority of PC games have activation codes or not.

That PC you linked to is more expensive, comes with a Sapphire video card (which I wouldn't buy), and doesn't come with an OS (which costs money) nor a DVD drive (to say play a physical copy of a PC game...). Console games cost me at most $20 assuming I bought it on release or very soon after, and obviously less if I wait to play it later (which is mainly I don't have time to play it then vs actually waiting for a price drop). You can get controllers pretty cheap every Black Friday, even the most basic keyboard/mouse costs about $20 (most PC gamers buy more expensive versions) and I'm guessing PC controllers aren't super cheap (they're probably cheaper than a PS4/Xbone controller but a PC needs a KB/M and if you want a controller, as some games play better with a controller, then that's at least another $20 so at least $40 right there on controllers for PC). And, that build you posted doesn't even include a keyboard/mouse whereas consoles come with a controller and usually a game for the base price of $400. Your computer build is way over $500 at this point. PS+ only makes gaming cheaper, I've been a PS+ member probably like 5 years now and I even kept it when unemployeed because gaming was cheaper with it. I agree it's bullshit to have to have it to play online but for me, PS+ is something I'd have regardless. PSN is pretty good at times with sales, a digital marketplace is sorta new to consoles, things will improve just like it did with Steam.

 

[CaitSeith]

If I buy a game for a console, it's going to fucking work.

Unless you buy it in Day One. Then maybe it'll work, or maybe it will be Assassin's Creed: Unity, Halo: Master Chief Collection, The Crew, Little Big Planet 3 or Tetris Ultimate. How the heck can someone screw up Tetris on the PS4!?

 

[Morgoth780]

If I buy a game for a console, it's going to fucking work.

Unless you buy it in Day One. Then maybe it'll work, or maybe it will be Assassin's Creed: Unity, Halo: Master Chief Collection, The Crew, Little Big Planet 3 or Tetris Ultimate. How the heck can someone screw up Tetris on the PS4!?

Ah, I forgot about Tetris.

There's no guarantee that something will work on day one or for some period of time after. Later on, I could probably agree that you're more likely to run into issues on PC than on a console, but even then, I'd still think they're relatively rare.

 

[14341210]

PC gaming is great, especially for strategy games. I love it. Sadly you are right, it's not as accessible as consoles, and when a game doesn't support your PC, you're gonna have to find a way around it yourself.

What PC gamers can't realize is that PC gaming is expensive, WAY more expensive than console's, in most of the countries in the world. That's because hardware stores in say, small European countries, Middle East, South and South East Asia and elsewhere, usually find no real competition like the one found in the USA or bigger European countries, and start charging for more, sometimes, a lot more. That's why a unified price tag on a console makes its entry-barrier much easier.

 

[Doom972]

So you knowingly open yourself to the possibility of a game not working out of the box. Windows updates are seamless and most of the time not very intrusive, so if you want things to run out of the box, you have to let it update automatically. Same goes for drivers as well. I'm sure that if you don't let your consoles update their firmware automatically, you'll find yourself staring at a download/installation screen when you try to run a recent game.

Shouldn't the game come with the software it needs to play? If you bought a physical copy of a PC game because you don't have internet, you should be able to play the game. Like console games that require a certain firmware version or higher come with that firmware on the disc. You very rarely have to update the firmware of a console to play a game (if you do, it's on the disc) unless you want to play online, you don't have to download and update the firmware even if you're prompted to. And what DoPo said about Windows Updates, I hate them, I don't need them so what's the point of potentially messing up my system? I literally don't have anything automatically update from my computer to my console to my phone.

Comparing windows installations to firmware makes no sense, because the PC is an open platform, and hardware configurations vary. Having every game include all windows (7 or 8) updates since its release would take too much space. Game downloads are large enough already. Besides, no game publisher/developer can take responsibility for Windows, since it's software that has nothing to do with them. It's the opposite case with MS and Sony on their consoles.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Unless you buy it in Day One. Then maybe it'll work, or maybe it will be Assassin's Creed: Unity, Halo: Master Chief Collection, The Crew, Little Big Planet 3 or Tetris Ultimate. How the heck can someone screw up Tetris on the PS4!?

Why does everyone bring up Unity? The game was full of bugs, not the PS4 or Xbone or PC version only. It wasn't a version/porting issue, it's not like PC users had a terrific game while the PS4 version got saddled with bugs. Most of the other games had mainly online issues, which every game has at launch. Consoles games aren't perfect by any stretch but I have probably at least a 99% chance of the game working satisfactory on the console vs the PC version being not nearly that high. A person mention Mortal Kombat X's issues on console trying to show console games have issues too and the PC version had more issues than the console version, which is my whole point. You will get more issues with PC games than console games, that's just a fact.

What PC gamers can't realize is that PC gaming is expensive, WAY more expensive than console's, in most of the countries in the world. That's because hardware stores in say, small European countries, Middle East, South and South East Asia and elsewhere, usually find no real competition like the one found in the USA or bigger European countries, and start charging for more, sometimes, a lot more. That's why a unified price tag on a console makes its entry-barrier much easier.

PC gaming isn't even cheaper in the US either. You'll find plenty of builds near console prices that do have better specs but the builds usually fail to add in the cost of Windows, keyboard & mouse, and usually use the cheaper parts (like choosing a not-so-great video card manufacturer).

Comparing windows installations to firmware makes no sense, because the PC is an open platform, and hardware configurations vary. Having every game include all windows (7 or 8) updates since its release would take too much space. Game downloads are large enough already. Besides, no game publisher/developer can take responsibility for Windows, since it's software that has nothing to do with them. It's the opposite case with MS and Sony on their consoles.

The game could say Windows 7 SP1 is required than put any required hotfixes (which wouldn't be very many at all) on the disc along with any stuff like DirectX.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

You can't sit there and tell me a better looking game isn't better than a worse looking game, all other things equal.
You can buy and sell a physical copy of the PC version too, so your point is moot. And that version will STILL be cheaper to buy.
The console isn't cheaper. This: http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/wiki/builds#wiki_the_next-gen_crusher out-does it slightly performance wise to my understanding (and carries all the advantages of a PC). Factor in the fact that console games tend to cost more, the controllers can cost god knows how much, paying for online each month to use your own internet, the fact that PC has abundant sales, the fact that PC has a metric fuckton of free games etc, etc, the even if the PC isn't cheaper in the short term (depending on what build you want), give it a year or so and you'll have saved more money than buying a console AND gotten a better experience.

Sure a game looking better is good but it ever so slightly increases my enjoyment of the game. I bought the Team ICO PS3 HD collection and it was nice having better graphics for those games but I'd maybe rate the HD versions like 0.1 higher than the PS2 versions if I was scoring each version, they were still the same games.

How can you sell a copy of a PC game that comes with an activation code like say GTAV? Note: I'm not sure if a majority of PC games have activation codes or not.

That PC you linked to is more expensive, comes with a Sapphire video card (which I wouldn't buy), and doesn't come with an OS (which costs money) nor a DVD drive (to say play a physical copy of a PC game...). Console games cost me at most $20 assuming I bought it on release or very soon after, and obviously less if I wait to play it later (which is mainly I don't have time to play it then vs actually waiting for a price drop). You can get controllers pretty cheap every Black Friday, even the most basic keyboard/mouse costs about $20 (most PC gamers buy more expensive versions) and I'm guessing PC controllers aren't super cheap (they're probably cheaper than a PS4/Xbone controller but a PC needs a KB/M and if you want a controller, as some games play better with a controller, then that's at least another $20 so at least $40 right there on controllers for PC). And, that build you posted doesn't even include a keyboard/mouse whereas consoles come with a controller and usually a game for the base price of $400. Your computer build is way over $500 at this point. PS+ only makes gaming cheaper, I've been a PS+ member probably like 5 years now and I even kept it when unemployeed because gaming was cheaper with it. I agree it's bullshit to have to have it to play online but for me, PS+ is something I'd have regardless. PSN is pretty good at times with sales, a digital marketplace is sorta new to consoles, things will improve just like it did with Steam.

Ah but you still bought the HD version. Then again I wouldn't call that an apt comparison, the grpahics difference beween the Witcher 3 on console vs PC is a better comparison. I'd say same for Crisis. And we're leaving out Frame Rate too.

You may be right on the activation code front. I'm not sure there, though I'm kinda sure you can simply message the dev as I've heard it done before. Not certain though, so you may be right.

A few small things to get out of the way first: You can get Windows 7 on the subreddit for $20, a keyboard and mouse is also $20.
With PSN sales, I doubt they'll improve. There is no competition on PSN, it all goes through them, and it's their way or the highway. No competitive market on that platform, they merely have to compete with Xbone, which is less of a thrat since it's a whole platform away.

How in the hell do you get new release games for $20 each? Same goes for the controllers too. Do you live in a country like Russia, or do you get these off the back of a truck?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Ah but you still bought the HD version. Then again I wouldn't call that an apt comparison, the grpahics difference beween the Witcher 3 on console vs PC is a better comparison. I'd say same for Crisis. And we're leaving out Frame Rate too.

You may be right on the activation code front. I'm not sure there, though I'm kinda sure you can simply message the dev as I've heard it done before. Not certain though, so you may be right.

A few small things to get out of the way first: You can get Windows 7 on the subreddit for $20, a keyboard and mouse is also $20.
With PSN sales, I doubt they'll improve. There is no competition on PSN, it all goes through them, and it's their way or the highway. No competitive market on that platform, they merely have to compete with Xbone, which is less of a thrat since it's a whole platform away.

How in the hell do you get new release games for $20 each? Same goes for the controllers too. Do you live in a country like Russia, or do you get these off the back of a truck?

I didn't have the games anymore and wanted to play them thus I bought the HD collection, I didn't buy them to "upgrade" my experience.

The build you linked to was basically $450 so that's at least another $40 (KB/M & Windows). Plus, it still has no optical drive, but that is optional (it is nice to be able to burn stuff from time to time). Some games do control better with a controller so I'm guessing a PC gamer would want a controller as well whether it's an Xbox/PS controller or PC controller, that adds some money. I'd definitely want a controller if I was going to PC game, I really do hate the KB/M for playing games. So this gaming PC is going to be right around $500 give or take depending on the user wanting addition things (optical drive/controller and those prices and rebates still being available as well), which is $100 more than a console. That is really the lowest you can build a decent gaming PC for and you do have to go AMD for that, which not everyone might want to do either. I put together this build [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.877223-I-want-to-get-into-PC-Gaming-Yes-Im-that-guy#22080503] in like 15 minutes for a bit over $500 without looking for the best deals either. But you just can't put together a decent gaming PC for $400.

PSN sales are pretty decent at times, even Steam good sometimes, like I got Blood Dragon for $2.50 or $3.50 and they run quite a few games for $10 or cheaper like I got Max Payne 3 for like $7 (but I hated the game though) and Red Dead Redemption for like $7 too (I also hated it lol, I'm done with Rockstar). I won't buy a game on PSN unless it's less than $20. If PSN/Live and developers were smart, they'd sell games day 1 for like $40 digitally. I bet the developer would end up making more money due to more people buying digitally thus less people buying used games.

I don't need more than one controller, and that came with my system. If my controller is starting to get that worn feeling, I just wait until Black Friday to pick one up cheap, they always run controllers on sale then.

I bought Bloodborne on release for basically $50 as Target had a deal where you pay $5 more and get a $20 PSN card ($70 w/tax - $20). I literally just sold Bloodborne for $31 [http://www.ebay.com/itm/111698565614?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2649] just the other day. So I had the game for 3 months, took my time with it, and sold it. And, of course, if I don't buy a game right away, but the time I get around to having time to play it, it's probably already down to at least $30 (even cheaper on Black Friday on games just months old too). Sell those games and you end up only paying like $5-$10 for them in the end.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

He sells them on ebay for 40 bucks once he's done. That's where he's getting the $20 figure.

It's all fine and dandy on an individual scale, but it becomes extremely stupid once you start advocating and talking about it as if it's a thing that the majority of players can or should do, like Phoenix just did here and in that one thread he started a while back exclusively about that topic.

The problem that happens when most people start doing that is that it's completely economically unsustainable, and would likely result in the death of console gaming.

EDIT: See? What'd I tell ya, I fucking called it.

Or if publishers just sold games digitally cheaper more people would buy digitally, the developer would make more money (much less used game sales), but that just makes too much sense. Also, more games would probably be sold as $40 a pop means people could afford more games, it would make for a healthier industry with people trying games they probably wouldn't currently due to the $60 price tag.

How is being able to sell your game (if you want) not a Pro of console gaming? Most gamers aren't kids anymore like 20 years ago. We don't have time to play all the games we want to let alone have the luxury of replaying games. And if you do at some time want to play that game again down the line, the game is going to be super cheap at that point anyways. It really makes no sense to hold onto any asset that's collecting dust and is only depreciating.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

Ah but you still bought the HD version. Then again I wouldn't call that an apt comparison, the grpahics difference beween the Witcher 3 on console vs PC is a better comparison. I'd say same for Crisis. And we're leaving out Frame Rate too.

You may be right on the activation code front. I'm not sure there, though I'm kinda sure you can simply message the dev as I've heard it done before. Not certain though, so you may be right.

A few small things to get out of the way first: You can get Windows 7 on the subreddit for $20, a keyboard and mouse is also $20.
With PSN sales, I doubt they'll improve. There is no competition on PSN, it all goes through them, and it's their way or the highway. No competitive market on that platform, they merely have to compete with Xbone, which is less of a thrat since it's a whole platform away.

How in the hell do you get new release games for $20 each? Same goes for the controllers too. Do you live in a country like Russia, or do you get these off the back of a truck?

I didn't have the games anymore and wanted to play them thus I bought the HD collection, I didn't buy them to "upgrade" my experience.

The build you linked to was basically $450 so that's at least another $40 (KB/M & Windows). Plus, it still has no optical drive, but that is optional (it is nice to be able to burn stuff from time to time). Some games do control better with a controller so I'm guessing a PC gamer would want a controller as well whether it's an Xbox/PS controller or PC controller, that adds some money. I'd definitely want a controller if I was going to PC game, I really do hate the KB/M for playing games. So this gaming PC is going to be right around $500 give or take depending on the user wanting addition things (optical drive/controller and those prices and rebates still being available as well), which is $100 more than a console. That is really the lowest you can build a decent gaming PC for and you do have to go AMD for that, which not everyone might want to do either. I put together this build [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.877223-I-want-to-get-into-PC-Gaming-Yes-Im-that-guy#22080503] in like 15 minutes for a bit over $500 without looking for the best deals either. But you just can't put together a decent gaming PC for $400.

PSN sales are pretty decent at times, even Steam good sometimes, like I got Blood Dragon for $2.50 or $3.50 and they run quite a few games for $10 or cheaper like I got Max Payne 3 for like $7 (but I hated the game though) and Red Dead Redemption for like $7 too (I also hated it lol, I'm done with Rockstar). I won't buy a game on PSN unless it's less than $20. If PSN/Live and developers were smart, they'd sell games day 1 for like $40 digitally. I bet the developer would end up making more money due to more people buying digitally thus less people buying used games.

I bought Bloodborne on release for basically $50 as Target had a deal where you pay $5 more and get a $20 PSN card ($70 w/tax - $20). I literally just sold Bloodborne for $31 [http://www.ebay.com/itm/111698565614?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2649] just the other day. So I had the game for 3 months, took my time with it, and sold it. And, of course, if I don't buy a game right away, but the time I get around to having time to play it, it's probably already down to at least $30 (even cheaper on Black Friday on games just months old too). Sell those games and you end up only paying like $5-$10 for them in the end.

The point about graphics still remains: Witcher 3 has a massive difference between console and PC.

You live in the US, so if you do shop around, you will definitely get the 450 build for possibly 400 or less. Look for a store called "Microcentre".
Plus if you just measure up the things that make it cheaper against the things that add value to it, it's far more worth it.

Cheaper:
No paying for online (I'm aware you seem to like PSN, but that still stands. Plus you actually have to PAY for the PSN sales, so that subtracts from it, and you can't sell your games on there like you mentioned earlier).
Far more stores to buy things from. You mentioned PSN outdoing Steam occasionally, but you've only seen the tip of the iceberg.
You can decide what budget you want your rig to be, and you can always take used parts from people who have upgraded, or pay a small price for them. The subreddit r/hardwareswap is a good place for this.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I know there is more, I just can't recall them right now.

Value:
Mods, infinite glorious mods.
Massive amount of Free to Play games. These have improved in quality drastically over the years.
Better looking games.
Higher framerates for smoother games.
Customizable settings.
Customizable button layouts.
The OPTION of choosing what input device you want to use to control the game.
Games that are unavailable on console, i.e. most games in existence. You're missing out on so much.
You have the option of spending more for better quality.
Humble Bundles. Look them up, I could also put this in the cheaper section.
Again, this is all off the top of my head.
P.S. there are also the little things take for granted, like easier web browsing, ease and choice of listening to music and pod-casts while playing, I'm aware Xbox just got the ability to take screenshots, well done them, and as I said before, infinite customization.

Also, since you're selling your games to get other games cheaper, I wouldn't necessarily call that a plus. Sure some games might function well with that, but not multiplayer or PSN games. Singleplayer maybe, if you only want to play it once or twice and never ever again. I suspect most people want to hold on to their games so they can play them again. And as Gundam said, this is unsustainable. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but if we're gonna say it's a big plus, and people started practicing on a wider scale... well then you CD-Keys for console games and that ends. Similar to BF3 and their multiplayer CD-Key thing they did.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Welcome to one of PC gaming's worst habits: the idea that they can just fix things later due to the internet with patches and updates. They seriously thought they could get away with this because they thought gamers would just take it and wait for an update because that's what they always do. So undisciplined.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The point about graphics still remains: Witcher 3 has a massive difference between console and PC.

You live in the US, so if you do shop around, you will definitely get the 450 build for possibly 400 or less. Look for a store called "Microcentre".
Plus if you just measure up the things that make it cheaper against the things that add value to it, it's far more worth it.

Cheaper:
No paying for online (I'm aware you seem to like PSN, but that still stands. Plus you actually have to PAY for the PSN sales, so that subtracts from it, and you can't sell your games on there like you mentioned earlier).
Far more stores to buy things from. You mentioned PSN outdoing Steam occasionally, but you've only seen the tip of the iceberg.
You can decide what budget you want your rig to be, and you can always take used parts from people who have upgraded, or pay a small price for them. The subreddit r/hardwareswap is a good place for this.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I know there is more, I just can't recall them right now.

Value:
Mods, infinite glorious mods.
Massive amount of Free to Play games. These have improved in quality drastically over the years.
Better looking games.
Higher framerates for smoother games.
Customizable settings.
Customizable button layouts.
The OPTION of choosing what input device you want to use to control the game.
Games that are unavailable on console, i.e. most games in existence. You're missing out on so much.
You have the option of spending more for better quality.
Humble Bundles. Look them up, I could also put this in the cheaper section.
Again, this is all off the top of my head.
P.S. there are also the little things take for granted, like easier web browsing, ease and choice of listening to music and pod-casts while playing, I'm aware Xbox just got the ability to take screenshots, well done them, and as I said before, infinite customization.

Also, since you're selling your games to get other games cheaper, I wouldn't necessarily call that a plus. Sure some games might function well with that, but not multiplayer or PSN games. Singleplayer maybe, if you only want to play it once or twice and never ever again. I suspect most people want to hold on to their games so they can play them again. And as Gundam said, this is unsustainable. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but if we're gonna say it's a big plus, and people started practicing on a wider scale... well then you CD-Keys for console games and that ends. Similar to BF3 and their multiplayer CD-Key thing they did.

I'm not going to deny better looking games isn't a plus. But most people don't really care about graphics, I care about gameplay. The gameplay isn't better on PC. Plus, I'd rather the game industry focus less on graphics on more on stuff like AI, that would make games better.

Is Microcenter's prices better on parts? Because I can't see them beating places like Newegg on price or selection. I also doubt I can buy a PC pre-built cheaper than building it myself. Plus, pre-builts usually have weak GPUs. Buying refurbs on eBay might be the only way to really lower down the price a good deal (but you can also buy refurb consoles).

I won't disagree that the PSN/Live online paywall is complete bullshit as you have to pay Sony/MS for a service they don't provide. But gaming is cheaper with PS+ so the "ends" are good but don't necessarily justify the "means". How do I have to PAY for PSN sales, I don't get that. PSN sales aren't just for PS+ users if that's what you mean.

I don't really get the whole Mods thing. I know some PC games have some pretty awesome mods but the majority of PC games don't have mods that significantly or even decently improve the game. The core game has to be good, you can't fix everything like people still find Skyrim bad with mods. My main issue with Bethesda games is shitty writing, is there a mod for that, I very much doubt it.

There's not that many free games I'd be interested in to be honest. PS4 has free-to-play games like Warframe and War Thunder and I don't find either good enough to play vs other games.

PS4 allows you to completely remap the controller.

I hate keyboard and mouse so for me, controller only is fine. Options are always good so I wouldn't be against having a KB/M option but not on competitive multiplayer.

I don't 100% completely console game. I have Divinity OS and bought Shadowrun Dragonfall off GOG's summer sale. If a game is available on both, I'm buying it on console.

Like I said, digital copies should be cheaper than discs. I would buy more games digitally if they were cheaper as they should be due to them being inferior to physical copies. Thus, I then wouldn't sell my games and the publisher/devs would make more money due to me not selling my games. The physical copy is not only superior but cheaper as I can usually find it for $10 off retail price even on release day, why the hell would I buy the digital version? The online pass failed on consoles so would the activation key thing too since it would completely screw over retailers way more than lowering the price of digital copies.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

The point about graphics still remains: Witcher 3 has a massive difference between console and PC.

You live in the US, so if you do shop around, you will definitely get the 450 build for possibly 400 or less. Look for a store called "Microcentre".
Plus if you just measure up the things that make it cheaper against the things that add value to it, it's far more worth it.

Cheaper:
No paying for online (I'm aware you seem to like PSN, but that still stands. Plus you actually have to PAY for the PSN sales, so that subtracts from it, and you can't sell your games on there like you mentioned earlier).
Far more stores to buy things from. You mentioned PSN outdoing Steam occasionally, but you've only seen the tip of the iceberg.
You can decide what budget you want your rig to be, and you can always take used parts from people who have upgraded, or pay a small price for them. The subreddit r/hardwareswap is a good place for this.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I know there is more, I just can't recall them right now.

Value:
Mods, infinite glorious mods.
Massive amount of Free to Play games. These have improved in quality drastically over the years.
Better looking games.
Higher framerates for smoother games.
Customizable settings.
Customizable button layouts.
The OPTION of choosing what input device you want to use to control the game.
Games that are unavailable on console, i.e. most games in existence. You're missing out on so much.
You have the option of spending more for better quality.
Humble Bundles. Look them up, I could also put this in the cheaper section.
Again, this is all off the top of my head.
P.S. there are also the little things take for granted, like easier web browsing, ease and choice of listening to music and pod-casts while playing, I'm aware Xbox just got the ability to take screenshots, well done them, and as I said before, infinite customization.

Also, since you're selling your games to get other games cheaper, I wouldn't necessarily call that a plus. Sure some games might function well with that, but not multiplayer or PSN games. Singleplayer maybe, if you only want to play it once or twice and never ever again. I suspect most people want to hold on to their games so they can play them again. And as Gundam said, this is unsustainable. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but if we're gonna say it's a big plus, and people started practicing on a wider scale... well then you CD-Keys for console games and that ends. Similar to BF3 and their multiplayer CD-Key thing they did.

I'm not going to deny better looking games isn't a plus. But most people don't really care about graphics, I care about gameplay. The gameplay isn't better on PC. Plus, I'd rather the game industry focus less on graphics on more on stuff like AI, that would make games better.

Is Microcenter's prices better on parts? Because I can't see them beating places like Newegg on price or selection. I also doubt I can buy a PC pre-built cheaper than building it myself. Plus, pre-builts usually have weak GPUs. Buying refurbs on eBay might be the only way to really lower down the price a good deal (but you can also buy refurb consoles).

I won't disagree that the PSN/Live online paywall is complete bullshit as you have to pay Sony/MS for a service they don't provide. But gaming is cheaper with PS+ so the "ends" are good but don't necessarily justify the "means". How do I have to PAY for PSN sales, I don't get that. PSN sales aren't just for PS+ users if that's what you mean.

I don't really get the whole Mods thing. I know some PC games have some pretty awesome mods but the majority of PC games don't have mods that significantly or even decently improve the game. The core game has to be good, you can't fix everything like people still find Skyrim bad with mods. My main issue with Bethesda games is shitty writing, is there a mod for that, I very much doubt it.

There's not that many free games I'd be interested in to be honest. PS4 has free-to-play games like Warframe and War Thunder and I don't find either good enough to play vs other games.

PS4 allows you to completely remap the controller.

I hate keyboard and mouse so for me, controller only is fine. Options are always good so I wouldn't be against having a KB/M option but not on competitive multiplayer.

I don't 100% completely console game. I have Divinity OS and bought Shadowrun Dragonfall off GOG's summer sale. If a game is available on both, I'm buying it on console.

Like I said, digital copies should be cheaper than discs. I would buy more games digitally if they were cheaper as they should be due to them being inferior to physical copies. Thus, I then wouldn't sell my games and the publisher/devs would make more money due to me not selling my games. The physical copy is not only superior but cheaper as I can usually find it for $10 off retail price even on release day, why the hell would I buy the digital version? The online pass failed on consoles so would the activation key thing too since it would completely screw over retailers way more than lowering the price of digital copies.

Most people DO care about graphics. Granted it's almost never one of the main selling points of a game, but if it looks like shit, you're not likely to buy it. If Star Citizen looked like a console game, it never would've gotten anywhere near the over 100 million dollar crowdfunding it did. Console gamers are still cranky over over not always hitting 1080p and 60fps. If it was all 720p, there'd be hell to pay, and you'd care about that too. If everything was shitty and blurry, you'd care about that too. These are just a few examples, I can continue if you want. Saying most people don't care about graphics is blatantly false.

Never buy pre-built. End of story. As far as I've heard, Microcentre is really good whenever they pop up in disucssion, and they're always recommended. Unfortunately for me, they're US based.

Wait, so how does PS+ make gaming cheaper if you don't need it for sales?

Mods DO improve the game. It's free content, made by the players. Whether it adds storylines, graphical improvements, characters, mechanics, items, etc, etc. They improve the game.
Actually, since you mentioned it, there are plenty of mods for Skyrim that add characters with well-written dialogue, good voice acting, and storylines. Same goes for questlines.

PS4 has fuck-all free games. PC has fuck-tons. Just take a look mate, seek and you shall find. That's the beauty of it. PC has infinite possibilities, console is stuck inside a box, and if you want out of it, you need to buy a PC.

Does it actually allow controller remapping? I haven't heard of it before. How does this work exactly?

In competitive multiplayer shooters, you will get stomped by KB/M used if you use a controller. Controller only really has an advantage in racing games.

Digital copies are unlikely to cheaper on consoles anytime soon. The manufacturers are good buddies with Gamestop, so they won't cut them out. Also, there's real competition. It's Sony's/Microsoft's way or the highway on their system. They can charge whatever they like, and there's nothing to really threaten them. It's basically communism.

And can I assume you agree with all the other points that I made off the top of my head?


Edit: we did kind of veer off-topic anyway didn't we? If we got back to Batman, well the original point still stands. This happens all the time, regardless of platform. Except now it's been taken off shelves until it's fixed. I don't think that's ever happened on console with a AAA game.