Could You Date A Transexual?

Abomination

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bananafishtoday said:
Abomination said:
I used to have multiple transexual friends but I would never engage with them in a romantic or sexual fashion - that resulted in me losing them as friends, apparently.

I am of the stern belief that you are the sex you were born as, no matter what medical practices are performed on you and no matter what you believe or think you are.
I thiiiiink there's a different reason they didn't want to be friends with you...
You missed the entire part of where I treated and called them in the manner of whatever gender they preferred to be called or treated as. Our friendship only ended when one asked me out and I declined, stating how I have no sexual attraction towards them.

If when my actions are completley in line, respect is completely given but it is my own internal thoughts (that I do not reveal without being asked directly) that cause umbridge - there is a trigger a demographic of people need to let go of. I understand their concept of gender identity but I do not subscribe to it. If they are incapable of being my friend because of THAT then it is not I who is the bigot.
 

A Curious Fellow

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ZephyriaSoul said:
A Curious Fellow said:
LittleThestral said:
A Curious Fellow said:
I don't think I could, even if I had wanted to before knowing what I was dealing with. Also, I think it's important to note that "transsexual" is a misnomer. Sex is coded in one's DNA and, in humans, cannot be changed, whatever superficial augmentations are added. There's no argument to be had on that point.
Gender, however, is not completely coded in one's DNA. It's all about the braaaaains. So, if you have a male brain but female bits (or vice-versa, of course), I think that can be accurately called "transsexual"-- i.e. your bits are the opposite sex of your brain.
I would like to see evidence of that ever happening. More to the point, I would like to see evidence of a brain being distinctly male or female at all when separated entirely from the rest of the body.
Have a good time with that, then. Because when separated from the body, the brain is just a useless lump of greymatter.
That's principally my point. A brain cannot be male or female except at the cellular level.
 

Sion_Barzahd

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Probably wouldn't bother me if i found her attractive enough, i've had crushes of MtoF trans before. I'd be shocked when i discovered they were previously a guy (as i am usually oblivious to this)
 

Zeren

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I could very easily. That person is who they are now, not who they used to be.
 

ZephyriaSoul

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A Curious Fellow said:
ZephyriaSoul said:
A Curious Fellow said:
LittleThestral said:
A Curious Fellow said:
I don't think I could, even if I had wanted to before knowing what I was dealing with. Also, I think it's important to note that "transsexual" is a misnomer. Sex is coded in one's DNA and, in humans, cannot be changed, whatever superficial augmentations are added. There's no argument to be had on that point.
Gender, however, is not completely coded in one's DNA. It's all about the braaaaains. So, if you have a male brain but female bits (or vice-versa, of course), I think that can be accurately called "transsexual"-- i.e. your bits are the opposite sex of your brain.
I would like to see evidence of that ever happening. More to the point, I would like to see evidence of a brain being distinctly male or female at all when separated entirely from the rest of the body.
Have a good time with that, then. Because when separated from the body, the brain is just a useless lump of greymatter.
That's principally my point. A brain cannot be male or female except at the cellular level.
But, it can be in thought processes. And THAT'S The point we're trying to make. Our brains are mapped differently to our bodies, our instincts and natures are mapped different to how are bodies appear.

I've lived this way my entire 17 years. Maybe if you put yourself in our shoes, you'd understand. But until then...
 

A Curious Fellow

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ZephyriaSoul said:
A Curious Fellow said:
ZephyriaSoul said:
A Curious Fellow said:
LittleThestral said:
A Curious Fellow said:
I don't think I could, even if I had wanted to before knowing what I was dealing with. Also, I think it's important to note that "transsexual" is a misnomer. Sex is coded in one's DNA and, in humans, cannot be changed, whatever superficial augmentations are added. There's no argument to be had on that point.
Gender, however, is not completely coded in one's DNA. It's all about the braaaaains. So, if you have a male brain but female bits (or vice-versa, of course), I think that can be accurately called "transsexual"-- i.e. your bits are the opposite sex of your brain.
I would like to see evidence of that ever happening. More to the point, I would like to see evidence of a brain being distinctly male or female at all when separated entirely from the rest of the body.
Have a good time with that, then. Because when separated from the body, the brain is just a useless lump of greymatter.
That's principally my point. A brain cannot be male or female except at the cellular level.
But, it can be in thought processes. And THAT'S The point we're trying to make. Our brains are mapped differently to our bodies, our instincts and natures are mapped different to how are bodies appear.

I've lived this way my entire 17 years. Maybe if you put yourself in our shoes, you'd understand. But until then...
I would encourage you to do further research into genetics, endocrinology, and neurology. What you're trying to say simply doesn't reflect the science of the human body.
 

cobra_ky

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A Curious Fellow said:
ZephyriaSoul said:
A Curious Fellow said:
ZephyriaSoul said:
A Curious Fellow said:
LittleThestral said:
A Curious Fellow said:
I don't think I could, even if I had wanted to before knowing what I was dealing with. Also, I think it's important to note that "transsexual" is a misnomer. Sex is coded in one's DNA and, in humans, cannot be changed, whatever superficial augmentations are added. There's no argument to be had on that point.
Gender, however, is not completely coded in one's DNA. It's all about the braaaaains. So, if you have a male brain but female bits (or vice-versa, of course), I think that can be accurately called "transsexual"-- i.e. your bits are the opposite sex of your brain.
I would like to see evidence of that ever happening. More to the point, I would like to see evidence of a brain being distinctly male or female at all when separated entirely from the rest of the body.
Have a good time with that, then. Because when separated from the body, the brain is just a useless lump of greymatter.
That's principally my point. A brain cannot be male or female except at the cellular level.
But, it can be in thought processes. And THAT'S The point we're trying to make. Our brains are mapped differently to our bodies, our instincts and natures are mapped different to how are bodies appear.

I've lived this way my entire 17 years. Maybe if you put yourself in our shoes, you'd understand. But until then...
I would encourage you to do further research into genetics, endocrinology, and neurology. What you're trying to say simply doesn't reflect the science of the human body.
I did and i found <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_humans#Brain>several examples of differences in brain structure between males and females.

I also found <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender#Transsexual_people_and_science>several studies that found more neurological differences in the brains of transgendered people.
 

A Curious Fellow

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cobra_ky said:
A Curious Fellow said:
ZephyriaSoul said:
A Curious Fellow said:
ZephyriaSoul said:
A Curious Fellow said:
LittleThestral said:
A Curious Fellow said:
I don't think I could, even if I had wanted to before knowing what I was dealing with. Also, I think it's important to note that "transsexual" is a misnomer. Sex is coded in one's DNA and, in humans, cannot be changed, whatever superficial augmentations are added. There's no argument to be had on that point.
Gender, however, is not completely coded in one's DNA. It's all about the braaaaains. So, if you have a male brain but female bits (or vice-versa, of course), I think that can be accurately called "transsexual"-- i.e. your bits are the opposite sex of your brain.
I would like to see evidence of that ever happening. More to the point, I would like to see evidence of a brain being distinctly male or female at all when separated entirely from the rest of the body.
Have a good time with that, then. Because when separated from the body, the brain is just a useless lump of greymatter.
That's principally my point. A brain cannot be male or female except at the cellular level.
But, it can be in thought processes. And THAT'S The point we're trying to make. Our brains are mapped differently to our bodies, our instincts and natures are mapped different to how are bodies appear.

I've lived this way my entire 17 years. Maybe if you put yourself in our shoes, you'd understand. But until then...
I would encourage you to do further research into genetics, endocrinology, and neurology. What you're trying to say simply doesn't reflect the science of the human body.
I did and i found <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_humans#Brain>several examples of differences in brain structure between males and females.

I also found <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender#Transsexual_people_and_science>several studies that found more neurological differences in the brains of transgendered people.
Nothing against Wikipedia, but if you're going to quote it as a hard source, I'm allowed to not take you seriously. If I was following the rules, I would be required to not take you seriously.
 

Raika

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iblis666 said:
as I want kids that are genetically mine and my mates I would have to say no, but in the future if the tech got to the point that a MtoF was able to have kids I would be fine dating them
If I'm not mistaken, stem cell research could actually do something along those lines if it was funded and the GOP wasn't stonewalling it. Then again, I heard this yonks ago, so part or all of it might not be true.
 

drisky

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A Curious Fellow said:
I would encourage you to do further research into genetics, endocrinology, and neurology. What you're trying to say simply doesn't reflect the science of the human body.
"Scientists now know that sex hormones begin to exert their influence during development of the fetus." Sex hormones effecting the brain of a fetus is a proven fact.

http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ

Although its link to transsexuality has not yet been proven, it's the prevailing theory based on autopsies and lack of effect based on social factors makes it seem highly likely to be an in born thing

http://danglingpossibilities.blogspot.com/2009/12/hormone-wash-in-brain.html

That's the science behind it as we know today.

I can give you more as well if you don't think its serious enough also
 

A Curious Fellow

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drisky said:
A Curious Fellow said:
I would encourage you to do further research into genetics, endocrinology, and neurology. What you're trying to say simply doesn't reflect the science of the human body.
"Scientists now know that sex hormones begin to exert their influence during development of the fetus." Sex hormones effecting the brain of a fetus is a proven fact.

http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ

Although its link to transsexuality has not yet been proven, it's the prevailing theory based on autopsies and lack of effect based on social factors makes it seem highly likely to be an in born thing

http://danglingpossibilities.blogspot.com/2009/12/hormone-wash-in-brain.html

That's the science behind it as we know today.

I can give you more as well if you don't think its serious enough also
These are fascinating reads, but with exceptions made for the initial paragraphs, they say little I wasn't already exposed to. Also, if you don't mind me being a stickler about it, I don't see how this contradicts me or makes transsexuality more legitimate. In the first article, the changes to the brains' structure is still being recognized as an effect of the sex of the rest of the body via differences in hormone levels. The second link you provided makes mention of the point at which fetal testosterone levels reach their peak in male utero development. Does that point not overlap with the point at which male development first asserts itself? I'm sure that you're aware that all humans are female during the first period of life before the Y chromosome activates the changes that create males, I'm just not certain if those two periods are one and the same. I'm also still unsure how this proves transsexuality to be anything other than psychological in its pathology.
 

karamazovnew

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Short answer? Nope, I couldn't. I've seen a few thais M to F transes that looked gorgeous, but I still couldn't. I'm too much into the idea of babies. I guess my father hormones are starting to kick in.
 

TheLion

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A Curious Fellow said:
I'm also still unsure how this proves transsexuality to be a biological function.
Since it occurs in humans, it's a biological function by default.

EDIT:

But it isn't necessarily a genetic condition.
 

A Curious Fellow

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TheLion said:
A Curious Fellow said:
I'm also still unsure how this proves transsexuality to be a biological function.
Since it occurs in humans, it's a biological function by default.

EDIT:

But it isn't necessarily a genetic condition.
Poor wording on my part. Fixed it.
 

drisky

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A Curious Fellow said:
drisky said:
A Curious Fellow said:
I would encourage you to do further research into genetics, endocrinology, and neurology. What you're trying to say simply doesn't reflect the science of the human body.
"Scientists now know that sex hormones begin to exert their influence during development of the fetus." Sex hormones effecting the brain of a fetus is a proven fact.

http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ

Although its link to transsexuality has not yet been proven, it's the prevailing theory based on autopsies and lack of effect based on social factors makes it seem highly likely to be an in born thing

http://danglingpossibilities.blogspot.com/2009/12/hormone-wash-in-brain.html

That's the science behind it as we know today.

I can give you more as well if you don't think its serious enough also
These are fascinating reads, but with exceptions made for the initial paragraphs, they say little I wasn't already exposed to. Also, if you don't mind me being a stickler about it, I don't see how this contradicts me or makes transsexuality more legitimate. In the first article, the changes to the brains' structure is still being recognized as an effect of the sex of the rest of the body via differences in hormone levels. The second link you provided makes mention of the point at which fetal testosterone levels reach their peak in male utero development. Does that point not overlap with the point at which male development first asserts itself? I'm sure that you're aware that all humans are female during the first period of life before the Y chromosome activates the changes that create males, I'm just not certain if those two periods are one and the same. I'm also still unsure how this proves transsexuality to be a biological function.
Like I said, it doesn't prove it yet but its the prevailing theory. I could get a better one for it.

How does the MtF Transsexual?

Like the normal male embryo, the male to female Transsexual brain starts out female. Then between the 8th and 24th weeks, the ?XY? chromosomes introduce testosterone hormonal changes, but the hormonal washes as faulty. They are either insufficient or ill timed. When this happens, the fetus develops a male body. However, some of the default (original) female brain processes remain intact. Thus, the brain?s gender identity remain intact. Thus, the brains gender identity remains female. This means that Transsexual males whose process of brain masculinization was incomplete, Their default female brains still function. The degree of arrested development can vary. The orgininal brain circuitry that was missed in the masculinizing process provides a continuing feminine influence. This explains why many Transsexuals, biological males know, from as early as 3 years old, that they are actually members of the opposite sex.

How does the FtM Transsexual brain develop?

Like the normal female embryo, the female to male Transsexual fetus starts out as a normal female. Then a problem occurs somewhere between the 8th and 24th week. Even though the ?XX? chromosomes have ordered no hormonal washes to take place, testosterone is still introduced. For example: An errant fetal adrenal glad causes testosterone to be produced in great quantities. The fetus is washed with testosterone, against chromosomal orders. The fetal body remains female. However, if the errant wash is strong enough, the female fetus brain is re-wired to think as male. This explains why many Transsexuals, biological males know, from as early as 3 years old, that they are actually members of the opposite sex.

http://www.majickalproductions.biz/bekasite/resouces/In-Womb%20Development.htm

Opponates of the theory will argue that not enough reaserch has been done. But the ones I'm finding that are fighting it hard are explicitly anti trans sites. They have less validity then wikipedia.

http://waltheyer.typepad.com/blog/2012/08/transgender-brain-hormone-wash-not-conclusive-.html

Really it seems to me that scientists know more about gender identify and its causes then they do sexuality, which is general considered to be from birth.
 

DugMachine

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Reading this thread depresses me. I feel like an ass for not having it in me to date a MtF trans but at the same time I'm mad because fuck you I don't have to be attracted to things because you want me to. I don't find black women attractive, am I racist? No I just don't fucking find them attractive. Nor do I find dudes attractive hence me being straight. I just could not overlook the past of a transgender person. Just like trans people didn't choose the gender they were born with, I can't help the way I think.

Dating aside I could give two shits about your sexual orientation or gender issues as a friend. I have many gay friends and have met transgendered people that are just great people. I will call you by whatever gender you please, hell if you believe you're a fucking potato then i'll call you a potato. But don't expect me to fuck you.
 

drisky

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DugMachine said:
Reading this thread depresses me. I feel like an ass for not having it in me to date a MtF trans but at the same time I'm mad because fuck you I don't have to be attracted to things because you want me to. I don't find black women attractive, am I racist? No I just don't fucking find them attractive. Nor do I find dudes attractive hence me being straight. I just could not overlook the past of a transgender person. Just like trans people didn't choose the gender they were born with, I can't help the way I think.

Dating aside I could give two shits about your sexual orientation or gender issues as a friend. I have many gay friends and have met transgendered people that are just great people. I will call you by whatever gender you please, hell if you believe you're a fucking potato then i'll call you a potato. But don't expect me to fuck you.
Then I'll put your mind at ease and tell you shouldn't feel like an ass because of your sexuality. Anyone tells you otherwise are wrong.
 

an annoyed writer

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Jun 21, 2012
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drisky said:
A Curious Fellow said:
drisky said:
A Curious Fellow said:
I would encourage you to do further research into genetics, endocrinology, and neurology. What you're trying to say simply doesn't reflect the science of the human body.
"Scientists now know that sex hormones begin to exert their influence during development of the fetus." Sex hormones effecting the brain of a fetus is a proven fact.

http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ

Although its link to transsexuality has not yet been proven, it's the prevailing theory based on autopsies and lack of effect based on social factors makes it seem highly likely to be an in born thing

http://danglingpossibilities.blogspot.com/2009/12/hormone-wash-in-brain.html

That's the science behind it as we know today.

I can give you more as well if you don't think its serious enough also
These are fascinating reads, but with exceptions made for the initial paragraphs, they say little I wasn't already exposed to. Also, if you don't mind me being a stickler about it, I don't see how this contradicts me or makes transsexuality more legitimate. In the first article, the changes to the brains' structure is still being recognized as an effect of the sex of the rest of the body via differences in hormone levels. The second link you provided makes mention of the point at which fetal testosterone levels reach their peak in male utero development. Does that point not overlap with the point at which male development first asserts itself? I'm sure that you're aware that all humans are female during the first period of life before the Y chromosome activates the changes that create males, I'm just not certain if those two periods are one and the same. I'm also still unsure how this proves transsexuality to be a biological function.
Like I said, it doesn't prove it yet but its the prevailing theory. I could get a better one for it.

How does the MtF Transsexual?

Like the normal male embryo, the male to female Transsexual brain starts out female. Then between the 8th and 24th weeks, the ?XY? chromosomes introduce testosterone hormonal changes, but the hormonal washes as faulty. They are either insufficient or ill timed. When this happens, the fetus develops a male body. However, some of the default (original) female brain processes remain intact. Thus, the brain?s gender identity remain intact. Thus, the brains gender identity remains female. This means that Transsexual males whose process of brain masculinization was incomplete, Their default female brains still function. The degree of arrested development can vary. The orgininal brain circuitry that was missed in the masculinizing process provides a continuing feminine influence. This explains why many Transsexuals, biological males know, from as early as 3 years old, that they are actually members of the opposite sex.

How does the FtM Transsexual brain develop?

Like the normal female embryo, the female to male Transsexual fetus starts out as a normal female. Then a problem occurs somewhere between the 8th and 24th week. Even though the ?XX? chromosomes have ordered no hormonal washes to take place, testosterone is still introduced. For example: An errant fetal adrenal glad causes testosterone to be produced in great quantities. The fetus is washed with testosterone, against chromosomal orders. The fetal body remains female. However, if the errant wash is strong enough, the female fetus brain is re-wired to think as male. This explains why many Transsexuals, biological males know, from as early as 3 years old, that they are actually members of the opposite sex.

http://www.majickalproductions.biz/bekasite/resouces/In-Womb%20Development.htm

Opponates of the theory will argue that not enough reaserch has been done. But the ones I'm finding that are fighting it hard are explicitly anti trans sites. They have less validity then wikipedia.

http://waltheyer.typepad.com/blog/2012/08/transgender-brain-hormone-wash-not-conclusive-.html

Really it seems to me that scientists know more about gender identify and its causes then they do sexuality, which is general considered to be from birth.
Oh my god thank you! i was looking for those studies to provide to someone that requested them earlier in this thread.

quoted for attention:

OniaPL said:
an annoyed writer said:
Fairly interesting.
Can you link me an article or a study regarding this? I'd love to read more on it.
OI! This guy found a couple of the ones that I'd been looking for. Not all of them, but some of them.

Thanks Drisky!