Jimquisition: Gamer Entitlement

TelHybrid

New member
May 16, 2009
1,785
0
0
Is this what the gaming community has come down to?

We're all such petty argumentative children that we need a famous internet personality to essentially say "play nice"?

We're so big headed that we need to be told to stay off that pedestal?

Shameful...
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
14,334
0
0
My issue with the whole ME3 ending thing is that you had people forming whole gamer movements to get Bioware to change it. Okay sure, criticize, begrudge, bemoan, whine, complain, whatever; but when you start forming whole movements, esp. ones arrogantly called "Retake Mass Effect," then you've crossed the line into entitlement and ridiculous levels of entitlement to boot. "Retake Mass Effect???" You can't retake something that was never yours to begin with.

Anyway, I don't have a problem if people like what I don't like as long as they're civil about it. ...which is hard to find on the Internet.
 

Pogilrup

New member
Apr 1, 2013
267
0
0
ultreos2 said:
Look I have watched, rewatched, and rewatched again all of Anita's Videos over and over again. The woman straight out blames a perpetuated misogynistic view of women, by gamers, because of how they are portrayed in video games.

As in all you right here, are misogynists because of games portrayal of women. That is her very thesis. I am not making this shit up, that is her damned basic premise for all her videos.

This is Wacko Jacko ENTIRELY in a nutshell. We are all out to be angry murderers because we play violent games.

She is blaming the entirety of the gaming community for a negative aspect of humanity as a whole for the media we consume, and she is getting a damned free pass on the simple principle of being a woman.

Jack Thompson was threatened by people who actually knew where he lived in massive numbers. Anita was threatened on the Internet, both bad, but he had actual reason to fear for his life.

She has told all gamers we are Misogynists because of games.

Just like Jack Thompson insists we were all murderers in the making for violent video games. These are the exact same premise. And the gaming community is sick and tired of being told they are terrible and horrible and it's because of the games they play.

It doesn't matter if they have a good point or not. People are against her because she blames the very community she tries to reach. The fact that many of you don't get this is extremely disturbing.
Did she ever say that explicitly?

Did she, in any statement online or off, explicitly say that every member of the gaming community is misogynistic?

Now personally, I have no problem swallowing my pride when it comes to the possibility that a work can unintentionally portray a social group in an negative light or perpetuate some bad ideals.

Besides Jack Thompson talked in absolutes and dealt in absolutes. Sarkessian acknowledges that great works can still be great despite their flaws.
 

camazotz

New member
Jul 23, 2009
480
0
0
ccdohl said:
Who has tried to make Anita Sarkeesian's videos disappear? I mostly see people arguing against her with, like, logic and arguments.
I'd love to know where. Every attack I've ever seen on Anita boils down to a character assassination. The few efforts I've seen at actually challenging her premise or conclusion in her videos have been hampered by the blatant inability of the attacker to recognize their own agenda in the process. It's almost a joke now; see someone attack Anita, and you basically see someone who's just outed themselves as a mysognis.
 

Jkdfasdfg

New member
Feb 18, 2014
1
0
0
For me when it comes to Anita, I ultimately disagree with her beliefs, many of them that are flawed. Many of these pieces of work that she has made that I disagree with have been deleted by her, but were published by her regardless and transcends into her other work.

?Female action heroes, although not helpless, are still subject to the male gaze in a way that male heroes are not. Placing women in these non-traditional roles makes it more acceptable for women to emulate masculine power dynamics, not necessarily a positive step towards solid, complex and positive representations of women. Lara Croft, for example, is the star of a video game and movie series who emulates masculine behaviors through violent conflict resolution and a tough emotional exterior. So while there are now female heroes that fit within patriarchal norms and adopt masculine traits, it is still not acceptable to have a situation wherein feminine qualities can be transformed as heroic characteristics.?

Anita dislikes the militarization of women or women who are aggressive because these traits are attributed to males. She argues that females that demonstrate these traits attempt to be men themselves by emulating their traits. As a female character becomes more masculine, they repudiate the feminine, becoming, in effect, sexless and less ?human? mirrors of male action heroes. She is also opposed to dumb or foolish female characters because she identifies it was a masculine trait. However female heroes that do display their sexuality then become objects of desire or hyper sexualized. In her own words, she advocates for characters that are positive anti-oppressive, that encourages progressive politics. She is against strong female hero that can display her sexuality which is counter intuitive to modern feminist theory.

This is just one of the many problems that I have with Anita's beliefs.
 

NuclearKangaroo

New member
Feb 7, 2014
1,919
0
0
i really dont like jims defense of anita


im not saying there arent issues in the portrait of gender and sex in video games or that they are not worth discussing, i do believe they exist and i do beleive they are, however anita is a scam artist, he got several times over the amount of cash she needed to make her videos on kickstarter and she hasnt completed em yet, she has gone on record saying shes not a gamer, and id say that someone who is not inmerssed in this culture has much validity in their arguments when it comes to critizing it, finally when you actually see her videos, well, i saw her female male character video and i can say the vast mayority of the examples she provided to defend her point are incredibly wrong, the games she critized for color swapping the male character into a female one are games that fall into these categories:

-old games, in which the limited processing power made telling what the main character was supposed to be in the first place a challenge on itself, therefore there is nothing wrong relying on tropes to help the player know they were controlling a female character

-games aimed at children in which they wanted to convey the idea of a female character in the most clear way possible for children

-games that are absolutely no serious at all and cartoony, do you seriously think rogue legacy or Ms splosion man are denigrating to women?
 

Pogilrup

New member
Apr 1, 2013
267
0
0
Anyways, I think if one really wants to be in control of the company that one is customer of, don't just buy when they are ethical and refuse when they are not.

Remember those shareholders that are often complained about? One of those shareholders could be you.

After all as a shareholder you have more at stake in the company than you do as a fan or customer. While you might not be able to change things at a production level, if you and many other shareholders feel upper management is doing a shitty job then perhaps one can vote some of them out.
 

Thanatos2k

New member
Aug 12, 2013
820
0
0
camazotz said:
ccdohl said:
Who has tried to make Anita Sarkeesian's videos disappear? I mostly see people arguing against her with, like, logic and arguments.
I'd love to know where. Every attack I've ever seen on Anita boils down to a character assassination. The few efforts I've seen at actually challenging her premise or conclusion in her videos have been hampered by the blatant inability of the attacker to recognize their own agenda in the process. It's almost a joke now; see someone attack Anita, and you basically see someone who's just outed themselves as a mysognis.
You can look in this topic. I see numerous people disagreeing with her without flaming.
 

Vegosiux

New member
May 18, 2011
4,381
0
0
Okay, was this a video on the subject of "entitlement" or an attempt to bring up Anita Sarkeesian again, because it's just not acceptable to not have one of those threads on Escapist for an entire month.
 

Thanatos2k

New member
Aug 12, 2013
820
0
0
Pogilrup said:
Anyways, I think if one really wants to be in control of the company that one is customer of, don't just buy when they are ethical and refuse when they are not.

Remember those shareholders that are often complained about? One of those shareholders could be you.

After all as a shareholder you have more at stake in the company than you do as a fan or customer. While you might not be able to change things at a production level, if you and many other shareholders feel upper management is doing a shitty job then perhaps one can vote some of them out.
HA. Investment companies and uber-rich brokers own the shares. You do know that just by buying stock you don't actually get a real say in what a company does, right? You get to cast your vote for your percentage of the total shares, all 0.00236 percent of them.

Good luck changing anything.

Besides, the whole point is the right thing and the thing that makes the most money often aren't the same. Stockholders vote for the latter, EVERY TIME.
 

Olas

Hello!
Dec 24, 2011
3,226
0
0
Eh, I totally agree, but hasn't this topic been done positively to death?

themilo504 said:
I completely agree with everything you said.

I also think you?re a entitled brat if you pirate a game and then complain that it isent very good.
Or if you pirate a game at all, since you're basically saying you should have it for free while other people are paying for it.

Goliath100 said:
Vivi22 said:
No. People who say the answer is always between two extremes are just afraid of taking sides. Sometimes it's between two extremes, sometimes it isn't.
Can I get an example of that? Note: My counter argument will be (if any) that your example is not two extremes.
What you're referring to sounds like the [a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation"]Argument to Moderation[/a] and Wikipedia defines it as a logical fallacy. You'll be able to find many examples on that page.

And if your counter argument is that the two opposite sides in these examples are "not two extremes" then I would say you're contradicting yourself because you said the answer is always between two extremes.

Edit: I said there were multiple examples in the link, can you not follow a link? But fine, if you really want me to copy/paste them here I can do that:

- "Some would say that hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet, but others claim it is a toxic and dangerous substance. The truth must therefore be somewhere in between."

- "A 100 ft canyon lies in front of Jack and Jill. Jack wants to build a 100 ft bridge to cross the canyon, but Jill doesn't want to cross at all. A compromise between the two would be a 50 ft bridge, which would only please Jill."

- "Bob says we should buy a computer. Sue says we shouldn't. Therefore, the best solution is to compromise and buy half a computer."

- "Should array indices start at 0 or 1? My compromise of 0.5 was rejected without, I thought, proper consideration." ? Stan Kelly-Bootle

- "The fact that one is confronted with an individual who strongly argues that slavery is wrong and another who argues equally strongly that slavery is perfectly legitimate in no way suggests that the truth must be somewhere in the middle."[4]

- "You say the sky is blue, while I say the sky is red. Therefore, the best solution is to compromise and agree that the sky is purple."

- "Jon wanted to touch the fire because he said that fire is cold, Jim said he shouldn't because it is hot, So they compromised and said it was lukewarm and Jon burned off his hand."
 

Pogilrup

New member
Apr 1, 2013
267
0
0
Thanatos2k said:
Pogilrup said:
Anyways, I think if one really wants to be in control of the company that one is customer of, don't just buy when they are ethical and refuse when they are not.

Remember those shareholders that are often complained about? One of those shareholders could be you.

After all as a shareholder you have more at stake in the company than you do as a fan or customer. While you might not be able to change things at a production level, if you and many other shareholders feel upper management is doing a shitty job then perhaps one can vote some of them out.
HA. Investment companies and uber-rich brokers own the shares. You do know that just by buying stock you don't actually get a real say in what a company does, right? You get to cast your vote for your percentage of the total shares, all 0.00236 percent of them.

Good luck changing anything.

Besides, the whole point is the right thing and the thing that makes the most money often aren't the same. Stockholders vote for the latter, EVERY TIME.
I didn't say to do it alone and it probably won't happen in a month either.

But it is a possibility perhaps in 40 years that many shareholder have grown up with videogames would know what it is like to have ignorant shareholders condoning bad business practices. Of course, they will always be out of touch with the youth 40 years from now. But that is still better than being out of touch by never having played videogames ever.
 

RaikuFA

New member
Jun 12, 2009
4,370
0
0
I get attacked all the time for liking Dragons Crown or Senran Kagura.

Get called entitled for wanting to play... games.

BTW, I'm not allowed to criticize games that rely on online.
 

Tono Makt

New member
Mar 24, 2012
537
0
0
camazotz said:
ccdohl said:
Who has tried to make Anita Sarkeesian's videos disappear? I mostly see people arguing against her with, like, logic and arguments.
I'd love to know where. Every attack I've ever seen on Anita boils down to a character assassination. The few efforts I've seen at actually challenging her premise or conclusion in her videos have been hampered by the blatant inability of the attacker to recognize their own agenda in the process. It's almost a joke now; see someone attack Anita, and you basically see someone who's just outed themselves as a mysognis.
You might be looking at Thunderf00t and the Amazing Atheist then extrapolating a bit since these two, in particular, were a bit harsh on Anita. There are a few detailed and respectful disagreements with her arguments out there on Youtube. Here's one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP9OvnqfOXo
 

Tomeran

New member
Nov 17, 2011
156
0
0
A good topic for an episode. Its a difficult issue to handle, because this is "sensitive" to gamers and some of them can flare up like hell if you bring this up. Only issue I've seen gamers debate more about is EA being evil and women in gaming.

Wouldnt be surprised if you lost a fair few regular watchers with this episode Jim, but frankly if you lost'em because of it they werent really worth keeping anyway.

Its funny that the ME3 ending debate is still going on. It was an excellent example for the topic being discussed, but regardless, seeing people debate about it again, like they still do on and off, made me puzzled. So the below statement would be to the people that still go on and on and on how much ME3's ending sucked and how they're gonna boycott everything Bioware ever releases and then jump everyone that thinks differently because hey, "ME3's ENDING SUCKED!".


Okay, maybe the ME3 ending did suck. At least it certainly wasnt good in its "vanilla" form. But that was ages ago. Please let it go. Bioware released a free modified ending and a ton of free multiplayer DLC as a direct result of the harsh feedback they got.

They then eventually released the Citadel DLC, which frankly was one of the most divine gaming experiences I've ever seen. I recomend people give that a try if they havent already. In many ways, Citadel was a huge "thank you" to the fans, and pretty much the colossal bandaid to the big bleeding wound in the franchise and in Bioware's reputation. You dont have to take my word for it, go and have a look at it and what its about. Hell just listen to some of the music for it. If you played the game series for the personal connections you build to your companions that you got to know over the trilogy, then im fairly sure you're going to love Citadel.


My 2 coppers on the matter.