No Right Answer: Attack on Attack on Titan

[Chris Pranger]

Thank you for your response Chris. I personally wasn't expecting this, but was a delightful response nether the less.
I won't lie though... I still feel you guys don't like anime in general. Not a crime or anything, just makes it harder for your videos due to not having much to like about them except certain scenes, concepts or ideals.

Keep doing your best guys.

Dan is not much of a fan overall because the ones he sees generally rub him the wrong way. I like anime up to a certain point and have a handful of series that really get me jazzed, including Death Note, Samurai Champloo, FLCL, and GTO. Part of what paints my perception is that I got super into Avatar: The Last Airbender, which while not anime shows how if you mix western animation with the anime style, hot damn, you get something amazing. I want to see that more often, going hand-in-hand with a desire for a true global culture.

P.S. After all these years, I'm still as happy when I see your avatars pop up in the comments section.

 

[medv4380]

Yikes! Definitely not what we want taken away from the episode! I'm hugely against fan service for the sole purpose of titillating the lowest-common denominator since I think that can easily be a disservice to the characters and the story. Fan service is something I think should be handled veeeeeeeery carefully.

As for Attack on Titan, you're right, the uniforms look excellent. They didn't stand out as much to me because I kept thinking, "Do Attack on Titan and Shin Megami Tensei IV take place in the same universe?" But the overall character designs, including the Titans, are something I should put in the "done very well" category.

So you're looking for an anime that has
1) Respectable Fan service if any.
2) The more violent story lines are acceptable since you liked the first half of Titan.
3) A good story.
4) You mentioned the abridged, and those are over the top comedy.

5) Good localization. My wife has a similar issue, and I can say it's never going to happen. Someone elses translation is always going to rub you the wrong way. My wife has learned to accept the feeling, but since she speaks Japanese the subtitles are there to give context when they use a new word now, and again.

I'd suggest Psycho-Pass as the one you have the highest likely hood of accepting.
http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/80006146
http://www.hulu.com/psycho-pass

It's extremely serious though. There is almost never a time to laugh. The first episode will ether sell you on it, or will tell you to run away screaming. It's basically a mix of SVU mixed with 1984, Gattica, or any other distopia story. The first seasons ark actually completes against the villain they build up to. There is a second season in October which gives away that the primary premise of their distopia is still in play. They just resolve the primary villain they build up for the entire season. You get a lot of procedural episodes like CSI, but they serve the purpose of showing just how messed up of a utopia they actually have. However, if you have a limit to how much scanners level violence you can handle you don't want to binge on it.

The polar opposite of that is No Game No Life [http://www.crunchyroll.com/no-game-no-life]. It's a pure comedy, and would have a closer feeling to abridged anime. However, it does have a lot of fan service to pull off the comedy, and I normally get the feeling that abridged episodes insert more fan service that was never there anyways. There is a game they play in episode 6 and 7 that they are able to remove things from reality temporarily. They systematically remove everything that would need to get censored, and then they remove all clothing leaving all the men and women like Ken and Barbie. Unfortunatly the game doesn't translate well. It's one of those things that can't be properly translated, but it is very funny. The direct translation is understandable, but a feature of the game can't be translated which deals with how the words sound. They also have some character bet everything including their clothing. Fan service, yes, but in the context of a comedy. They even do a bathroom bit because they established that two characters can't be more than 10 feet or so apart. So you kinda needed to know how they took baths given certain restrictions. Even when the main character does something in the name of getting a girlfriend he gets a lecture on how he just messed up. It's basically non stop laughs.

What things have you found good, and bad in anime in the past?
It would help narrowing down the potential list.

 

[PunkRex]

I've always preferred Outlaw Star to BeBop, and I agree that the mid section of Attack on Titan is a little slow, not that the deaths hit any less hard.

Panty & Stocking has great localization, in fact I think the English dubs are better than the Japanese ones. Granted it's one of the few series were fan service is essential to the plot so if you're not into that then...

Also,


Greatest opening ever.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Well, this wasn't much of a debate, or mostly about Attack on Titan at all. I think they're on the second season/big story arc currently on adult swim, and somewhere down the line I worry it will drag out the old "Humans are the real monsters" cliche that zombie flicks are so fond of. What, the giant naked dudes with no genitalia or assholes and Joker smiles aren't?!

But if Dan wants anime series with great localization and where stuff happens (action sequences and character building moments), I strongly recommend Gurren Laggan, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Black Lagoon, and Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex.


captcha: Rugged and Capable
I know quite a few anime protagonists who fit that description

 

[vxicepickxv]

If you can find it, Martian Successor Nadesico is a great, self contained series that's a season long. It's mostly lighthearted, and it loves to make fun of the fact that it tries to take itself too seriously. Giant robots fighting in space, relatively simple explanations of how everything works, and even the catch up filler episode is done in a different style to make it entertaining.

 

[Azuaron]

Like you Dan, I too have a generalized aversion to anime. The whole "I pull sledgehammers out of my butt", "if you yell you become thirty feet tall", and "giant sweat drops mean embarrassment" are stylistic things I just can't get onboard with.

Beyond that, one of my friends and I were watching Dragon Ball Z way back when, and Freeza shoots a giant ball of energy into the planet Namek and goes, "Oh, it didn't immediately blow up. Looks like it has five minutes until it explodes." Five thirty-minute episodes later, Namek explodes. It was then that we stopped watching DBZ forever (except for abridged).

All that being said, anime I do enjoy:

Some of Cowboy Bebop (sorry, have to). Toys in the Attic ranks as one of the best episodes of any show ever. But, then again, there are plenty of episodes that are just irrelevant fluff.

Sword Art Online. Nearly every episode has its own self-contained story arc that contributes to the larger season/half-season arcs, and the English dubbing isn't half bad (when they get around to it). This is not to say that some episodes aren't slow (some of them are), just that they're self-contained, and a slow episode here and there is often a good thing for a series (the fly episode in Breaking Bad, for instance).

Trigun. I should be clear, I haven't watched Trigun since I was, like, 12, so it may not have aged well. But it was good when I was 12. You may want to start with the movie then move onto the series if you liked the movie.

Hellsing. Oh my, Hellsing. Hellsing is probably my favorite anime. It's difficult to pull of a rich, dark world that's not all broody and tortured, but I think they managed to pull it off (even if the main girl is broody and tortured some of the time) just because Alucard has so much fun. Also, Walter the Angel of Death.

Anime that you should watch because culture:

Akira. It's just one movie, you can do it. If you want to understand post-WWII Japan a little better, as well as the cyberpunk genre, you have to watch Akira. Warning: it gets... weird.

Ghost in the Shell. It's... hard to get through, and even harder to understand. But, if you want to understand where a lot of modern cyberpunk is coming from (apparently, it's always cyberpunk), you have to get through Ghost in the Shell.

I think I'm going to go watch Hellsing again. Oooh, it's on Hulu.

 

[Deimir]

Heaven's Lost Property is up there on my list. Lighthearted harem-comedy, most episodes are pretty good as one-shots, and occasionally the overarching story pokes its head in, moreso in the second season than the first IIRC. True action scenes are rare but lots of fun to watch. Last I checked, it consists of two seasons and a movie. The first 60% of the movie is a recap of the first two seasons of the show from a background character's point of view, followed by a bit of new story and a big action piece to finish it off. I don't read manga, so no idea where the anime is in relation to it. Oh yeah, and there's a robot made of panties.

Outlaw Star was always my preference over Cowboy Bebop when they were both airing on Cartoon Network/Adult Swim back in the day, but once I got my hands on the DVDs, I felt like the filler episodes were actually pretty bad compared to the story-related ones. Nowadays I skip anything in it that doesn't advance the story arc.

My favorite anime series of all time, though, is Mobile Suit Gundam: 08th MS Team. No psychic powers, no mystical machines that unlock humanity's potential, just a ground force of pilots fighting in the jungle during the One Year War. The animation quality is top-notch, especially for its time. It runs for 12 episodes, and I can easily watch the entire series in one sitting either dubbed or subbed. There's technically a movie as well, but it's 90% a clip show that takes place somewhere between the end of episode 8 and the start of episode 10, and alongside certain events in episode 9.


Honorable mentions in no particular order: Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, Sword Art Online, Psycho Pass, Sekirei (nudity warning), Death Note and Trigun, Ghost In The Shell (both seasons of the anime are good, though I thought the first was better).

...Just looked on Netflix to make sure I wasn't missing anything, and there's a new Ghost In The Shell anime? Put that in my eyes right now!

 

[Chris Pranger]

What things have you found good, and bad in anime in the past?
It would help narrowing down the potential list.

I'm a fan of DBZ for nostalgia reasons, I adored Death Note's clever twists (up to a certain point) and prefer the original Japanese voices on that (also for nostalgia reasons), really dug FLCL for it's utter nonsense, liked Samurai Champloo for its style and setting, liked Trigun for the characterization of Vash, loved the US dub of Shin Chan for being extremely funny and unexpected, loved Akira because it's Akira, love Miyazaki's films (my favorite is Porco Rosso), loved Outlaw Star for being just damned cool, and loved GTO for how much fun they had with Onizaka.

Inversely, I couldn't get into Naruto for its slow start, I never much cared for the Gundam shows because I'm not huge on robots or mechs, I couldn't fall in love with Gurren Lagann for robots, needless fan service, and annoying characters (plus Netflix screwed me that one), tried hard to get into Fruit's Basket but couldn't find the interest (nothing against it but it wasn't for me), never found that much in any of the Tenchi series to keep me around, didn't much care for the Ghost in the Shell movies (again, robits), and while I've tried multiple times to jump into One Piece, the sheer amount of episodes is exhausting and not really doable with my current schedule despite being a show I'd enjoy once I was hooked.

And above all, I'm a fan of Avatar: The Last Airbender, which has admittedly spoiled me to what a fusion of eastern and western styles can do.

 

[Deimir]

My favorite anime series of all time, though, is Mobile Suit Gundam: 08th MS Team.

...I never much cared for the Gundam shows because I'm not huge on robots or mechs...

You were just waiting for me to post before saying that, weren't you? I'm hugely into robots/mechs but they have to be "real robots," so things like Gurren Lagann fall by the wayside for me too.

I also considered mentioning Avatar, dunno why I left it out though. It's easily in my top five animated shows of all time.

 

[Silverbane7]

hm.. its hard to pick some becasue i havent seen that many shows in both japanese and english (tho it would be in subtitals when i see the japaneese)

so in that context, there are only about two shows i can say worked well when compared to their japaneese sub'd versions.

german sailormoon: compared to the horible DiC stuff, the german dub did very well in matching the original japaneese.
and
Kekko Kamen. i saw both the dubbed and subbed versions of the first story and while some jokes were localised (the muscle man was named tarro swartzenager in the english dub, but i suspect he was named for a famous japanese bodybuilder in the sub...the samurai man sounded like sean connery's highlander character, and had the same name almost lol) the sub and the dub were almost the same.

as for anime's to watch...
i can say i think that spirited away and howl's moving castle are two of my fave gibli.
claymore isnt too bad and i do adore FMA tho i havent goten round to FMA:B yet (im a sucker for ed ^^)

you could try Love Hina if the tenchi stuff is a bit too wierd (no space stuff just one guy having to run the guesthouse place with so many nice girls he cant pick which he wants XD)
but it realy depends on what you like when it comes to a series.
becasue no amount of pleading is going to make you like a romantic situational embarrasment type anime like say..chobbits if you cant stand that kind of style.

for sillyness and oldness try Project AKO at you tube, its very old but its got some realy daft bits in it
trigun is also good. you might try looking at the devil may cry anime. most of the Ghost in a Shell stuffs great.

 

[medv4380]

Inversely, I couldn't get into Naruto for its slow start, I never much cared for the Gundam shows because I'm not huge on robots or mechs, I couldn't fall in love with Gurren Lagann for robots, needless fan service, and annoying characters (plus Netflix screwed me that one)

Which Gundam sets did you watch? I've watched a fair number of them, and each one can be disliked for radically different reasons. I personally can't stand Gundam G because it's way too much like DBZ. Even though you disliked Gundam was there anything that you did like? For example, I don't care too much for the logic around the War for Gundam Wing, but Gundam 00 I liked the addition of more modern sci-fi like a space elevator, and with the Original I liked the details of the war, but didn't like the whole esper, and new type stuff because it was underdeveloped.

For Naruto you have to watch with an episode guide. It takes too long to start mostly due to lots, and lots of filler seasons.

 

[bobtail123]

Black Lagoon - 26 episodes, stories take between 1 and 6 episodes, Criminals in the South China Sea, no supernatural elements, very westernised, numerous references to western culture and world history that make a great deal of sense, multicultural cast, incredibly well acted dub. Similar to Breaking Bad about a normal man turning bad in the face of crime, just more action orientated. The action is the only time things feel slightly less realistic, relying on a 1980s action movie suspension of disbelief. Conversation is almost always very realistic and human, not feeling out of place in an modern HBO drama.

 

[Chris Pranger]

Inversely, I couldn't get into Naruto for its slow start, I never much cared for the Gundam shows because I'm not huge on robots or mechs, I couldn't fall in love with Gurren Lagann for robots, needless fan service, and annoying characters (plus Netflix screwed me that one)

Which Gundam sets did you watch? I've watched a fair number of them, and each one can be disliked for radically different reasons. I personally can't stand Gundam G because it's way too much like DBZ. Even though you disliked Gundam was there anything that you did like? For example, I don't care too much for the logic around the War for Gundam Wing, but Gundam 00 I liked the addition of more modern sci-fi like a space elevator, and with the Original I liked the details of the war, but didn't like the whole esper, and new type stuff because it was underdeveloped.

For Naruto you have to watch with an episode guide. It takes too long to start mostly due to lots, and lots of filler seasons.

I watched Gundam Wing for a bit because it was on next to DBZ and enjoyed it here and there for what it was, but can't for the life of me remember anything from it. I caught episodes of other Gundam series once in a while, but nothing made me sit down and really give it a shot.

 

[bobtail123]

Baccano - 13 episodes, 1930s Mafia in New York, minor supernatural elements to do with immortality, also very westernised. Complicated beginning and separate stories told interwoven at different timelines so takes some getting used to. Picks up around episode 4 and really kicks off at 7. A great deal occurs in almost every episode due to how short the show is. Conversations feel over the top but more in a pulpy, fun sense; not a stupid 2 dimensional anime sense

 

[RedDeadFred]

I saw that Dan watched Fullmetal Alchemist, but that series isn't as good as the other series, fullmetal alchemist brotherhood. It's more loyal to the manga, and the story makes a lot more sense, so it would be a better anime for Dan to watch.

Plus, most of the episodes aren't just self contained filler. Most of them advance the plot in some way. The story is also a lot more fast paced than a lot of the anime I've attempted to watch.

Chris and Dan, as someone who also dislikes most anime (and disliked Attack on Titan for most of the same reason -I stopped watching after a certain character came back in god mode), I suggest you watch FMA Brotherhood. As a bonus, the English dub is very good (for anime standards anyway).

 

[hentropy]

Probably the best localization I've seen is Gunslinger Girl (Italian black ops fighting domestic terrorist with girl cyborgs, but it is played straight like a Scorcese movie), it is my opinion but the dub actually sounds a bit better than the original Japanese audio. Each episode in the first season is rather self-contained and each has its own story/message, and there's not much in terms of filler. The second season is not so great, though, for reasons which are immediately noticeable.

The trick in general is to stay away from series which are too long, few good series are able to pull off more than 12 episodes at a time.

I've never really understood why Attack on Titan got so popular, I guess it has appeal across a variety of anime fans, but it never appealed much to me at all. It has its moments, I suppose, but there's just not enough story there.

 

[bobtail123]

Hellsing - 10 episdoes, 40-50 minutes long. Vampires in England This one can be summed up by the question: "do WW2 Nazi vampires destroying London with brutal violence sound fun/interesting to you?" This is more of a risk for you but it still bears several of the hallmarks of what you might like. The localisation is top notch with nods to everything from Star Wars to Armageddon. The dubbing is very impressive from most people, although the number of English and othe European accents required does mean that one or two sound a tad gratuitous at times, though most are vastly improved as the actors have more practice. Every episode bring something new to the table due to how few there are with the only real exception being possibly 3. Honestly the main reason to watch this one is to have some very well animated fight scenes between vampires.

Just to quickly prove how well this was localised https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmeX2E5BUXY

 

[thanatos388]

Well, for good dubs there would be Kinos Journey, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (it's more about how technology affects people in society not how as overt on it's intellectualism like what the Oshii films love to do), and Baccano! as many have already recommended.

For good anime with shit localization and dubs there is Neon Genesis Evangelion (It's a giant robot show the way Twin Peaks is a cop show, and is directed like a live action show so nothing too over the top most of the time, very good characters), Perfect Blue (or any movie made by Satoshi Kon, especially if you liked Darren Aronofsky's Requiem for a Dream and Black Swan he straight up rips off Kon a bit there), Revolutionary Girl Utena is very good but also a wired series but not like how you would think an anime would be weird, and Welcome to the NHK for something without heroes villains or magic AND it's not an overdramatic high school drama the characters deal with REAL issues beyond whether or not sempai will notice them today.

 

[McFazzer]

I think Baccano! has a great localisation, it probably helps that a lot of it is 1930's America. It's short, sweet and has some actually funny moments