On Gaymers and Cons

[Erttheking]

But if the members of the LGBT community are so concerned about this, why do we need to put them somewhere else. Why can't a con that's already going to happen go "we highly encourage members of the LGBT community to attend" because frankly when you think about it, will the majority of people at regular cons and gamers as a whole even NOTICE the missing LGBT gamers at their cons, or that the LGBT focused con even exists?

We aren't putting them anywhere else. They're still going to go to the regular conventions.

Imagine a panel (or a few) that were set up to discuss the topic of homosexuality in gaming. It would be AWESOME to put that in a regular gaming convention. However, that wouldn't be likely, as unfortunately a lot of the younger gaming community is incredibly aghast by that sort of thing. Not most, but enough to make it messy.

Well who CARES about what they think? They're part of the problem. We shouldn't have to step on egg shells around these people. We should tell them "this is what's happening, suck it up or get lost" These people need a good slap in the face, just like the people who used to go on about how gaming was a boys only club, we shouldn't be afraid to make changes for progress because of some bad apples.

And the point I was trying to make earlier is that I'd be willing to bet that the majority of these types of people wouldn't even know about the LGBT con, so they wouldn't really care about it or the fact that they were causing a need for it. So it wouldn't accomplish a lot in that area.

 

[Sepko]

Still don't see how this isn't a form of self-segregation. Honestly, part of me feels like I'm somehow being homophobic by not understand and I am racking my brains and desperately trying to think of how this isn't a form of segregation, but I can't think of it.

While a heterosexual individual wouldn't be denied entry to the event there would, I imagine, be more than a few people wondering why that person came. Some people might even think it ruins the event itself, like how several of my gay friends started getting irritated because the local gay bar was having more and more straight patrons. Putting a label at the door just makes people not of that label feel unwelcome. I wouldn't, for example, join my local Afro-Caribbean in my university because I feel like I'm not welcome.

Of course, this doesn't mean I'm against this event: if people feel too uncomfortable around heterosexual individuals to join an event then it's good that they have the option to surround themselves with more like-minded people, only I feel it comes by excluding people of a different mindset.

I very much doubt gays in gaming would have the same kind of reaction to gay bar patrons having straights pop up. Gaymers know that any support they get will be helpful in the long run, so having straights attend Gaymercon would be both supportive and awesome.

 

[stonemaskstoryteller]

Mh, I see the point here - I just completely disagree with it, frankly.

Here's why.

First off, I'm a woman and if they made a videogame convention dedicated to women, I would NOT attend it. I want female gamers to be equal to male gamers.
Do I even need to add how retarded a videogame convention dedicated to shaolin monks would be?

So, tell me: why then, a videogame convention dedicated to gay is apparently ok?

I repeat: this. is. a. GAME CONVENTION.

It's not a pub or a place to flirt, it's not something that needs a discrimination for gay or for women or for different religions.
So the message I -am- getting from the existence of a gay videogame convention, is that gay people feel themselves to be so irreparably different from heterosexual people that even when it comes to something like videogames, they need their very own version of it.

The point is it's an social environment where sexuality can be discussed freely alongside games. Where gay people don't have to worry about being "inappropriate" or "weird" for talking about their loved ones now and then. It's not exclusive, or discriminatory anymore than regular gamer con. anyone can come along, just expect more discussion about homosexuality within gaming culture.

Also, the reason why women don't have this problem is because, socially women are free and welcome to talk about their straight loved ones and have come a long way since the days when they were expected to stay at home and mind the kinds. In THOSE days you may very well have found 'women only' parties.

I don't think you saw the point, or at the least, you misinterpreted it. This is only meant to provide a more homosexualy-friendly environment, which can only be a good thing.

and Frankly, thinking that gay people only go anywhere "gay" only to flirt just proves how downright ignorant you are on the matter.

 

[Diddy_Mao]

To be clear, I don't begrudge them their desired convention, I certainly won't stop them or deride their choice to attend. Neither it's existence nor their attendance picks my pocket or breaks my arm.

That being said I'll openly admit that I don't completely understand the idea either.
I'm also straight, male, in my early 30's so it can be safely assumed that I don't have a dog in this fight.

Yes, I understand that any person can and should take pride in their cultures and subcultures and conventions or festivals are a way to explore that and meet other like minded people. Still, I can't help but feel that there is a point where we start to thin the focus a bit too much and begin to lose relevance.

As an example. I would call myself a gamer, I'm also an atheist and an American Indian. All three of which are cultures and subcultures I am active and proud member of, some of which intersect or conflict but none of which would I try to completely integrate with the other because they're functionally unrelated.


On that note I must regrettably delay the opening ceremonies of the first annual Upper Midwest Indian-Atheist-Gamer-Painter-Straight Adult Male-Con: 2013 due to the sole attendee needing to go to work.

 

[Alcaste]

I've got nothing against homosexuals getting their own gamer con, but what I don't understand is how their sexuality would change their approach to gaming in a way that's significant enough to warrant its own celebration. I mean, gamers come from all horizons, all stratas of society, all races and all sexual orientations. What unites us is our love of the medium.

That's what I've always loved about gaming, how uniting it has been - Particularly in the early stages of the community's development.

That said, it has things to work on. As has been said in this thread a lot, there is a passive hostility with some of the community towards homosexuality, particularly on the younger end of the spectrum (I am not saying that all younger gamers are homophobes, just that it comes up a lot.) The con is an answer to that so that there's a place for them to feel more comfortable than usual, which is totally fine. Someday we won't need it. Can't wait for that day.

Well who CARES about what they think? They're part of the problem. We shouldn't have to step on egg shells around these people. We should tell them "this is what's happening, suck it up or get lost" These people need a good slap in the face, just like the people who used to go on about how gaming was a boys only club, we shouldn't be afraid to make changes for progress because of some bad apples.

And the point I was trying to make earlier is that I'd be willing to bet that the majority of these types of people wouldn't even know about the LGBT con, so they wouldn't really care about it or the fact that they were causing a need for it. So it wouldn't accomplish a lot in that area.

Not everyone is that confrontational. You are, I am. I would love to give them a good slap in the face. My friends and I constantly call out homophobia while we play online games, and hope that sometimes we make at least a little bit of a difference (particularly when we rally up other players that we haven't met before)

And yeah, a lot of people won't even notice. They're a non-factor if that's the case. The people that WOULD notice are the ones that would either A: want to make a difference (they miss them) or B: need to be changed (they're forced to reflect)

 

[Skeleon]

...the kind of dishonest bigots who are "fine with gays" as long as they don't, you know, do anything gay.

Yeah, what jerks. I'm fine with gays as long as they don't, you know, do anything gay near me. Very different.
[sub]I kid, I kid, but I expect there to be a lot of those folks around as well.[/sub]

 

[RA92]

You are in a room with your friends and the group is entirely male. You tend to wind up speaking and acting a certain way - maybe you swear a little more, maybe you care less about farting, maybe you bring up hot girls a little more than you would if there were a girl present. It's a subtle shift in behavior that isn't a big deal in and of itself, but it makes you more comfortable because you don't feel like you have to pay extra attention to what you say and how you say it. (Same thing is true in reverse, by the way - women change how they talk and behave when a man is in the group.)

If that analogy doesn't work for you, you can use any people who make you fundamentally monitor how you behave - your parents, teachers, coworkers, whatever.

Point is, it's not so much about existing cons being rampantly homophobic (though sure, sometimes that happens), but rather creating an environment where you don't have to worry about that at all. You walk through the door more able to be comfortably you, expressing all aspects of your personality. Sexuality informs many aspects of our life, big and small - everything from the clothes we wear to the entertainment we like to the kind of character we want to talk about to the cosplay we admire. No, it's not like attendees would necessarily be WOOO I'M GAYYYYYY the entire time they're at the show, but they wouldn't have to worry about getting uncomfortable looks when they mention their same-sex partner, or getting stared at if they held hands as they perused artist's alley.

Plenty of gaymers have wonderful experiences at cons, but I love the idea of GaymerCon. A place where people can feel safe as welcome as they celebrate their geekitude? Fantastic!

Y'know, I was never really bothered by the whole idea of a gaymer con - it doesn't hurt me, and whatever floats their boat. These underlying, more subtle tribulations gays have to go through never really occurred to me. I guess fighting homophobic legislations is only half the battle - the other cultural half still needs to be sorted through.

Thanks for your post, Susan.

 

[Screamarie]

What I want to know is...do they check your gay card before you walk through the door? Because if not, then there's nothing "segregating" about it. They're just making a convention aimed specifically for the LGBT community. Making it to where more than likely any one who attends is either part of or in support of the LGBT community and don't have to worry about someone shouting "HOMO!" if they show the slightest inclination of being gay...or I suppose for lesbians being told to kiss random women for the enjoyment of the straight men there.

It's the same as making a COMIC con or an ANIME con or a VIDEO GAME con. You're just gearing most of the features and/or the community attending to be focused on noticing or accepting a specific facet of gamer culture. And as long as there are gay gamers then they are apart of our culture, just like the sexist "i don't want to share my toys" man children and entitled 13 years old swearing at you on Xbox live (not drawing any connections between the three, just saying you gotta take the good with the bad).

 

[IamLEAM1983]

As has been said in this thread a lot, there is a passive hostility with some of the community towards homosexuality, particularly on the younger end of the spectrum.

The only way this will ever get fixed is if we try and prevent the trivialization of certain words and epithets. Trying to stop that from happening, though, along with trying to circumscribe the words "Gamer" or "Nerd" to sheltered and socially awkward types, is just plainly impossible.

What's "gay", nowadays, if you go by my younger cousins' vocabulary, is anything that feels even remotely pointless. A "******" is anyone who's prone to relying on repetitive tactics in online games, or who's slow on the uptake. In the context of multiplayer games, being "gay" refers to being unskilled. I've tried to explain to one of my cousin's kids that this is fairly discriminatory, but he doesn't see it that way.

It warrants confusion, but some young 'uns think that there's being gay, and then there"s "being gay", fingerquotes included. One refers to the sexual orientation - with which they have no problems whatsoever - and the other refers to sticking to cheese tactics or being unskilled. Try and untangle that knot with someone who's absorbed that non-logic so completely that he fails to understand he might be understood as being offensive...

 

[Erttheking]

I've got nothing against homosexuals getting their own gamer con, but what I don't understand is how their sexuality would change their approach to gaming in a way that's significant enough to warrant its own celebration. I mean, gamers come from all horizons, all stratas of society, all races and all sexual orientations. What unites us is our love of the medium.

That's what I've always loved about gaming, how uniting it has been - Particularly in the early stages of the community's development.

That said, it has things to work on. As has been said in this thread a lot, there is a passive hostility with some of the community towards homosexuality, particularly on the younger end of the spectrum (I am not saying that all younger gamers are homophobes, just that it comes up a lot.) The con is an answer to that so that there's a place for them to feel more comfortable than usual, which is totally fine. Someday we won't need it. Can't wait for that day.

Well who CARES about what they think? They're part of the problem. We shouldn't have to step on egg shells around these people. We should tell them "this is what's happening, suck it up or get lost" These people need a good slap in the face, just like the people who used to go on about how gaming was a boys only club, we shouldn't be afraid to make changes for progress because of some bad apples.

And the point I was trying to make earlier is that I'd be willing to bet that the majority of these types of people wouldn't even know about the LGBT con, so they wouldn't really care about it or the fact that they were causing a need for it. So it wouldn't accomplish a lot in that area.

Not everyone is that confrontational. You are, I am. I would love to give them a good slap in the face. My friends and I constantly call out homophobia while we play online games, and hope that sometimes we make at least a little bit of a difference (particularly when we rally up other players that we haven't met before)

And yeah, a lot of people won't even notice. They're a non-factor if that's the case. The people that WOULD notice are the ones that would either A: want to make a difference (they miss them) or B: need to be changed (they're forced to reflect)

I think the people who are like that are going to seriously be in the minority, I don't know how much it'll help.

And I kinda feel like an asshole for saying this, but Martin Luther King Jr. didn't gain so much momentum for the equal rights movement by being passive aggressive. I have no idea why, but I apologize for that last sentence.

 

[Kecunk]

If Gaymers want to have their own thing then thats cool.

But anytime there is "x" thing for "x" people there will always be somebody left asking why.

I just think its kinda funny that in regards to this those people are viewed as ignorant or bigoted or both But if there was ever a con designed to be specifically for straigh males there would be somekind of outrage.

Because cons designed for a minority compared to cons for the massive majority should totally be compared on equal terms.

Not trying to be a dick just trying to make the point that equality goes both ways.

If "x" group excludes "y" group and anybody who questions it is a dick

But "y" group excludes "x" group its because "y" group is full of dicks

With the only reasoning being that "y" group is bigger or has been around longer. Then that still not very equal.

Everybody should have the right to have their own thing just for them.

 

[Sepko]

If Gaymers want to have their own thing then thats cool.

But anytime there is "x" thing for "x" people there will always be somebody left asking why.

I just think its kinda funny that in regards to this those people are viewed as ignorant or bigoted or both But if there was ever a con designed to be specifically for straigh males there would be somekind of outrage.

Because cons designed for a minority compared to cons for the massive majority should totally be compared on equal terms.

Not trying to be a dick just trying to make the point that equality goes both ways.

If "x" group excludes "y" group and anybody who questions it is a dick

But "y" group excludes "x" group its because "y" group is full of dicks

With the only reasoning being that "y" group is bigger or has been around longer. Then that still not very equal.

Everybody should have the right to have their own thing just for them.

If the Gaymercon is excluding anything it's bigots, hateful assholes and possibly a significant portion of the Xbox Live crowd. I think that's better for everyone, no?

 

[JokerCrowe]

I read Susan's answer to this thread and it made me change my mind, at first I was also of the opinion of "Why would they want a convention of their own?" (not in a dickish way, actually I'm really naïve...)
But then I realized that I guess it would be nice to be in a place where you feel comfortable. ^.^
As long as they Allow straight people inside, I'm cool with it.
(Not saying that they should just make it a "Normal" convention, just saying that as long as they don't discriminate because of sexuality, I'm cool with it. They'll probably have security for throwing people out if some straight dicks got in..)

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

Aww, and here I was expecting more double or triple layered biting sarcasm a-la Brony-con.

I can see the appeal of a gaymer-con, but this affects me very little either way as a non-con goer.

 

[Alcaste]

As has been said in this thread a lot, there is a passive hostility with some of the community towards homosexuality, particularly on the younger end of the spectrum.

The only way this will ever get fixed is if we try and prevent the trivialization of certain words and epithets. Trying to stop that from happening, though, along with trying to circumscribe the words "Gamer" or "Nerd" to sheltered and socially awkward types, is just plainly impossible.

What's "gay", nowadays, if you go by my younger cousins' vocabulary, is anything that feels even remotely pointless. A "******" is anyone who's prone to relying on repetitive tactics in online games, or who's slow on the uptake. In the context of multiplayer games, being "gay" refers to being unskilled. I've tried to explain to one of my cousin's kids that this is fairly discriminatory, but he doesn't see it that way.

It warrants confusion, but some young 'uns think that there's being gay, and then there"s "being gay", fingerquotes included. One refers to the sexual orientation - with which they have no problems whatsoever - and the other refers to sticking to cheese tactics or being unskilled. Try and untangle that knot with someone who's absorbed that non-logic so completely that he fails to understand he might be understood as being offensive...

It's a big problem that's next to impossible to solve easily, that's for sure. It's so ingrained. That doesn't mean people have to put up with it - They can pick up their toys and go elsewhere until these people literally grow up.

I think the people who are like that are going to seriously be in the minority, I don't know how much it'll help.

And I kinda feel like an asshole for saying this, but Martin Luther King Jr. didn't gain so much momentum for the equal rights movement by being passive aggressive. I have no idea why, but I apologize for that last sentence.

That's not the best comparison, I don't think. Gay rights have come a VERY long way, I don't think we're at the point that Martin Luther King Jr. was at when he was leading the charge. This is something much more minor (relatively speaking), and just something we need to work on, rather than a huge human rights infraction.

 

[Daaaah Whoosh]

I guess all I can say about this is that I don't see how gays (is that politically correct?) can be assumed to have things in common with one another. It's like having a black gamer convention, you're assuming that they'll like each other just because they've been born a certain way. Like that problem people have when they only know two gay people, and they think that they'd be perfect for each other just because they're both gay.
I guess if the point is to keep all the assholes out (I could make a joke there, but I'm already being potentially offensive here), then I would agree with this. However, that's why Shaolin monks have their own temples, and why women have their own bathrooms. If we all learned to be nicer to each other, then we wouldn't have to have such segregation.

 

[Deathfish15]

For those not understanding the reasons behind this:


~~~Do you play multiplayer games?


If the answer is yes, then the answer to "why" this convention is put up is self evident. There is hate on a daily basis in Halo 4, WoW, Guild Wars 2, League of Legends, DotA 2, Call of Duty, and so many other games. Not only is there hate and spite towards homosexuals, there's also the issue with people throwing the slang terms around like it's their second language.


There are many times that I've asked people to "please don't use that term" when they calling enemies/allies 'f***ets' or when they die they say 'that's gay'. Most of the time it doesn't result in them stopping, instead it's more of "STFU you stupid ******" and going into worse. Sure, there's reporting them, but it only ever rarely works. People are either just ignorant or don't care. I've even had a guildmate kicked out by a leader because he refused to stop using such words in both chat and Teamspeak.



So, why a con? Because the CON is a place were a panel can be formed to discuss such discrimination in games (which is never a topic discussed at normal cons). It's also a place where people don't have to deal with that kind of slang and hate-terms just for the hell of it.

 

[JaceArveduin]

Huh, seems weird to me, though I guess it's cause my gay friend's ego is so big, it filters out all insults, and my bi friends ego is almost as big, but with a brash attitude to go with it.

So yeah, if it was nearby, I'd go just out of curiosity as to what all would happen at such a place. And hell, I may even find a ladyfriend who's bi and I wouldn't be such a lonely bastard, yey!