On Gaymers and Cons

[OfficialJab]

To be fair I didn't, but my point still sort of stands - there is a double morale here, propogated by events like these, and while I understand the need for a "minority" to have something of their own, I feel they may just be creating more issues for themselves by pulling stunts like these. I'm not straight myself, but nothing made me loathe people who identify as having a diverging sexuality than the pride parade.

To clarify, I dont say that these kinds of events shouldnt exist, I just question whether or not they aren't just creating more waves unnecessarily.

Also, I follow alot of game-related news sites and I havent heard any vitriol for this gaymer con, honestly (as with people hating on Halo fanboys) i hear the complaints about the complaints alot more than i hear the actual complaints.

You didn't know that it included all comers, but have seriously never seen anybody attack this thing online?

As I said in another reply, this isn't really a "Hide from the mean people" Con so much as "Bigots aren'te welcome here" con. It would be largely similar to a standard con, but most of the attendees are either gay, or sensitive to the challenges faced by gays, and there is more content targeted to that group.

It's not damaging, in fact it should be leading by example. I don't think it should be labelled 'Gaymer' though.

 

[tehweave]

You know, I want to like this series, but you guys are getting too preachy as of late. The gamer girl comic, this comic,, I agree with you guys, but you've lost the two things I used to enjoy about this:

1. Your sense of humor.
2. Entertainment.

You want to preach, fine. But you're going to lose viewers along the way.

 

[Sepko]

Liked the comic, especially the guy without pants and it makes a valid point.

Bit sad at the whole "if you're a white and straight teenager then you wouldn't understand" vibe of the description though. That's just a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you go in expecting others to misunderstand then chances are pretty high that that's how things will end up.

Issues like this are never solved by even more alienation, it's vital to seek common ground from which to build understanding. Going in with the expectation that there's no such common ground because the opposite side is of a specific race, sexual orientation, age etc. is anathema to tolerance and understanding.

It's not like it's gonna stop us going to other cons just because we've got the gay one now. The gay one is an option, that's all, a place where we can be a bit more comfortable an open if we want. It's not segregation if we have a choice to go to where we wanna go.

Captcha: rack your brains
No joke.

Erm... did you quote the wrong post?

I didn't make any claims that anyone would stop visiting anything for any reason nor did I say anything about segregation.

Just a bit confused why you quoted me as if I was making this out to be a bad thing in any way, I've got no problems whatsoever with a gaymer convention or any other convention for a niche audience. The only thing I find somewhat disappointing is the idea in the description that such conventions can't be understood by white straight teenagers. I think a basic level of understanding is reachable on most any subject if one side is willing to explain and the other is willing to listen.

Oh shit I did quote the wrong guy. Goddamn, sorry about that -__-""

 

[Kecunk]

If Gaymers want to have their own thing then thats cool.

But anytime there is "x" thing for "x" people there will always be somebody left asking why.

I just think its kinda funny that in regards to this those people are viewed as ignorant or bigoted or both But if there was ever a con designed to be specifically for straigh males there would be somekind of outrage.

 

[Alcaste]

Not to be rude, but I think the people that the members of the LGBT community are trying to get away from aren't exactly going to do a 180 because the people that they mock went somewhere else. It just don't think that they'll be that mature.

Never implied that they'd do a 180. Just that it's a start. If you continue the status quo, then nothing gets done. If you get confrontational with the problem, then you start a fight. Even the tiniest hints that 'maybe we're doing something wrong' makes it worth it.

 

[Erttheking]

Not to be rude, but I think the people that the members of the LGBT community are trying to get away from aren't exactly going to do a 180 because the people that they mock went somewhere else. It just don't think that they'll be that mature.

Never implied that they'd do a 180. Just that it's a start. If you continue the status quo, then nothing gets done. If you get confrontational with the problem, then you start a fight. Even the tiniest hints that 'maybe we're doing something wrong' makes it worth it.

But if the members of the LGBT community are so concerned about this, why do we need to put them somewhere else. Why can't a con that's already going to happen go "we highly encourage members of the LGBT community to attend" because frankly when you think about it, will the majority of people at regular cons and gamers as a whole even NOTICE the missing LGBT gamers at their cons (these aren't the people you can pick out of a crowd), or that the LGBT focused con even exists?

 

[Sepko]

If Gaymers want to have their own thing then thats cool.

But anytime there is "x" thing for "x" people there will always be somebody left asking why.

I just think its kinda funny that in regards to this those people are viewed as ignorant or bigoted or both But if there was ever a con designed to be specifically for straigh males there would be somekind of outrage.

Because cons designed for a minority compared to cons for the massive majority should totally be compared on equal terms.

 

[Alcaste]

Read the blurb under the comic and then reevaluate your statement.

Disregard the fact that a good comic strip should not require you to read a text under it in order to be understood...

Ok, anyway. I still stand my point here. I'm talking for them. I'm heterosexual. I'm trying to imagine myself in their place: in this case, by imagining a videogame convention made for women. And if that convention existed, I would find it stupid and discriminatory, like shouting to the world that women somehow need their own gaming convention because apparently normal videogame conventions aren't for them?

So yeah, sorry. I'm still getting that clear, obvious message written in big letters. "We're gays. We don't fit it with straight people, so we decided to make our own convention even when it comes to something nearly completely unrelated to our sexuality, i.e. videogames".
This is a very bad message to send.

Also, I'm pretty sure a gay videogame convention is EXACTLY what homophobic videogamers want. "Now those gay people will go in their own secluded place and won't bother us in OUR gaming conventions! Ah!".

That isn't the message they're trying to convey at ALL. They're just trying to set up a place where like-minded individuals and those that support them can gather and enjoy themselves without having the passive hostility that their lifestyle gets almost everywhere else. The fact that the hostility is everywhere else is a problem, yes, and until we live in an all-loving utopia we have this in the meantime.

Your posts come off as rather vitriolic...You might want to tone it down.

But if the members of the LGBT community are so concerned about this, why do we need to put them somewhere else. Why can't a con that's already going to happen go "we highly encourage members of the LGBT community to attend" because frankly when you think about it, will the majority of people at regular cons and gamers as a whole even NOTICE the missing LGBT gamers at their cons, or that the LGBT focused con even exists?

We aren't putting them anywhere else. They're still going to go to the regular conventions.

Imagine a panel (or a few) that were set up to discuss the topic of homosexuality in gaming. It would be AWESOME to put that in a regular gaming convention. However, that wouldn't be likely, as unfortunately a lot of the younger gaming community is incredibly aghast by that sort of thing. Not most, but enough to make it messy.

 

[Alcaste]

Double, my bad

 

[Sepko]

Read the blurb under the comic and then reevaluate your statement.

Disregard the fact that a good comic strip should not require you to read a text under it in order to be understood...

Ok, anyway. I still stand my point here. I'm talking for them. I'm heterosexual. I'm trying to imagine myself in their place: in this case, by imagining a videogame convention made for women. And if that convention existed, I would find it stupid and discriminatory, like shouting to the world that women somehow need their own gaming convention because apparently normal videogame conventions aren't for them?

So yeah, sorry. I'm still getting that clear, obvious message written in big letters. "We're gays. We don't fit it with straight people, so we decided to make our own convention even when it comes to something nearly completely unrelated to our sexuality, i.e. videogames".
This is a very bad message to send.

Also, I'm pretty sure a gay videogame convention is EXACTLY what homophobic videogamers want. "Now those gay people will go in their own secluded place and won't bother us in OUR gaming conventions! Ah!".

You're insinuating that the existence of the only Gaymercon on the planet will suddenly make the LGBT crowds stop attending the mainstream cons. I have no doubt we'll still be going to the same events we've been going to since the dawn of time, we just have an option to attend an alternative should we so wish, to escape the Xbox Live Universe that is some mainstream cons. And the straights can go too, it's not like we're gonna ban the lot of you from attending. We could always do with supporters.

 

[AngloDoom]

Still don't see how this isn't a form of self-segregation. Honestly, part of me feels like I'm somehow being homophobic by not understand and I am racking my brains and desperately trying to think of how this isn't a form of segregation, but I can't think of it.

While a heterosexual individual wouldn't be denied entry to the event there would, I imagine, be more than a few people wondering why that person came. Some people might even think it ruins the event itself, like how several of my gay friends started getting irritated because the local gay bar was having more and more straight patrons. Putting a label at the door just makes people not of that label feel unwelcome. I wouldn't, for example, join my local Afro-Caribbean in my university because I feel like I'm not welcome.

Of course, this doesn't mean I'm against this event: if people feel too uncomfortable around heterosexual individuals to join an event then it's good that they have the option to surround themselves with more like-minded people, only I feel it comes by excluding people of a different mindset.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

I've got nothing against homosexuals getting their own gamer con, but what I don't understand is how their sexuality would change their approach to gaming in a way that's significant enough to warrant its own celebration. I mean, gamers come from all horizons, all stratas of society, all races and all sexual orientations. What unites us is our love of the medium.

I understand the appeal of each group getting its own con - maybe there's a few niche titles I can't think of that would get a better representation in that context - but this has the downside of splitting our already contentious lot into smaller groups. I'd much rather bump into a "gaymer" at PAX and find out what kind of person he or she is. That would give me a better chance of understanding if, and how sexuality colours our approach to gaming. It would also relegate the person's sexual orientation to the third or fourth degree. I'd base my opinion of them on everything *other* than their sexuality, which seems less discriminatory to me.

On the other hand, I have no issue with a gay gamer con existing *alongside* mixed-background venues, like PAX. This way, "gaymers" get their desired chunk of exclusive hangouts and still get to share their perspective with the rest of us. I'd think of it as distilling an element you're intending to later integrate into a brew of some kind - said brew representing the cultural affects of gaming.

 

[Erttheking]

But if the members of the LGBT community are so concerned about this, why do we need to put them somewhere else. Why can't a con that's already going to happen go "we highly encourage members of the LGBT community to attend" because frankly when you think about it, will the majority of people at regular cons and gamers as a whole even NOTICE the missing LGBT gamers at their cons, or that the LGBT focused con even exists?

We aren't putting them anywhere else. They're still going to go to the regular conventions.

Imagine a panel (or a few) that were set up to discuss the topic of homosexuality in gaming. It would be AWESOME to put that in a regular gaming convention. However, that wouldn't be likely, as unfortunately a lot of the younger gaming community is incredibly aghast by that sort of thing. Not most, but enough to make it messy.

Well who CARES about what they think? They're part of the problem. We shouldn't have to step on egg shells around these people. We should tell them "this is what's happening, suck it up or get lost" These people need a good slap in the face, just like the people who used to go on about how gaming was a boys only club, we shouldn't be afraid to make changes for progress because of some bad apples.

And the point I was trying to make earlier is that I'd be willing to bet that the majority of these types of people wouldn't even know about the LGBT con, so they wouldn't really care about it or the fact that they were causing a need for it. So it wouldn't accomplish a lot in that area.

 

[Sepko]

Still don't see how this isn't a form of self-segregation. Honestly, part of me feels like I'm somehow being homophobic by not understand and I am racking my brains and desperately trying to think of how this isn't a form of segregation, but I can't think of it.

While a heterosexual individual wouldn't be denied entry to the event there would, I imagine, be more than a few people wondering why that person came. Some people might even think it ruins the event itself, like how several of my gay friends started getting irritated because the local gay bar was having more and more straight patrons. Putting a label at the door just makes people not of that label feel unwelcome. I wouldn't, for example, join my local Afro-Caribbean in my university because I feel like I'm not welcome.

Of course, this doesn't mean I'm against this event: if people feel too uncomfortable around heterosexual individuals to join an event then it's good that they have the option to surround themselves with more like-minded people, only I feel it comes by excluding people of a different mindset.

I very much doubt gays in gaming would have the same kind of reaction to gay bar patrons having straights pop up. Gaymers know that any support they get will be helpful in the long run, so having straights attend Gaymercon would be both supportive and awesome.

 

[stonemaskstoryteller]

Mh, I see the point here - I just completely disagree with it, frankly.

Here's why.

First off, I'm a woman and if they made a videogame convention dedicated to women, I would NOT attend it. I want female gamers to be equal to male gamers.
Do I even need to add how retarded a videogame convention dedicated to shaolin monks would be?

So, tell me: why then, a videogame convention dedicated to gay is apparently ok?

I repeat: this. is. a. GAME CONVENTION.

It's not a pub or a place to flirt, it's not something that needs a discrimination for gay or for women or for different religions.
So the message I -am- getting from the existence of a gay videogame convention, is that gay people feel themselves to be so irreparably different from heterosexual people that even when it comes to something like videogames, they need their very own version of it.

The point is it's an social environment where sexuality can be discussed freely alongside games. Where gay people don't have to worry about being "inappropriate" or "weird" for talking about their loved ones now and then. It's not exclusive, or discriminatory anymore than regular gamer con. anyone can come along, just expect more discussion about homosexuality within gaming culture.

Also, the reason why women don't have this problem is because, socially women are free and welcome to talk about their straight loved ones and have come a long way since the days when they were expected to stay at home and mind the kinds. In THOSE days you may very well have found 'women only' parties.

I don't think you saw the point, or at the least, you misinterpreted it. This is only meant to provide a more homosexualy-friendly environment, which can only be a good thing.

and Frankly, thinking that gay people only go anywhere "gay" only to flirt just proves how downright ignorant you are on the matter.

 

[Diddy_Mao]

To be clear, I don't begrudge them their desired convention, I certainly won't stop them or deride their choice to attend. Neither it's existence nor their attendance picks my pocket or breaks my arm.

That being said I'll openly admit that I don't completely understand the idea either.
I'm also straight, male, in my early 30's so it can be safely assumed that I don't have a dog in this fight.

Yes, I understand that any person can and should take pride in their cultures and subcultures and conventions or festivals are a way to explore that and meet other like minded people. Still, I can't help but feel that there is a point where we start to thin the focus a bit too much and begin to lose relevance.

As an example. I would call myself a gamer, I'm also an atheist and an American Indian. All three of which are cultures and subcultures I am active and proud member of, some of which intersect or conflict but none of which would I try to completely integrate with the other because they're functionally unrelated.


On that note I must regrettably delay the opening ceremonies of the first annual Upper Midwest Indian-Atheist-Gamer-Painter-Straight Adult Male-Con: 2013 due to the sole attendee needing to go to work.

 

[Alcaste]

I've got nothing against homosexuals getting their own gamer con, but what I don't understand is how their sexuality would change their approach to gaming in a way that's significant enough to warrant its own celebration. I mean, gamers come from all horizons, all stratas of society, all races and all sexual orientations. What unites us is our love of the medium.

That's what I've always loved about gaming, how uniting it has been - Particularly in the early stages of the community's development.

That said, it has things to work on. As has been said in this thread a lot, there is a passive hostility with some of the community towards homosexuality, particularly on the younger end of the spectrum (I am not saying that all younger gamers are homophobes, just that it comes up a lot.) The con is an answer to that so that there's a place for them to feel more comfortable than usual, which is totally fine. Someday we won't need it. Can't wait for that day.

Well who CARES about what they think? They're part of the problem. We shouldn't have to step on egg shells around these people. We should tell them "this is what's happening, suck it up or get lost" These people need a good slap in the face, just like the people who used to go on about how gaming was a boys only club, we shouldn't be afraid to make changes for progress because of some bad apples.

And the point I was trying to make earlier is that I'd be willing to bet that the majority of these types of people wouldn't even know about the LGBT con, so they wouldn't really care about it or the fact that they were causing a need for it. So it wouldn't accomplish a lot in that area.

Not everyone is that confrontational. You are, I am. I would love to give them a good slap in the face. My friends and I constantly call out homophobia while we play online games, and hope that sometimes we make at least a little bit of a difference (particularly when we rally up other players that we haven't met before)

And yeah, a lot of people won't even notice. They're a non-factor if that's the case. The people that WOULD notice are the ones that would either A: want to make a difference (they miss them) or B: need to be changed (they're forced to reflect)

 

[Skeleon]

...the kind of dishonest bigots who are "fine with gays" as long as they don't, you know, do anything gay.

Yeah, what jerks. I'm fine with gays as long as they don't, you know, do anything gay near me. Very different.
[sub]I kid, I kid, but I expect there to be a lot of those folks around as well.[/sub]

 

[RA92]

You are in a room with your friends and the group is entirely male. You tend to wind up speaking and acting a certain way - maybe you swear a little more, maybe you care less about farting, maybe you bring up hot girls a little more than you would if there were a girl present. It's a subtle shift in behavior that isn't a big deal in and of itself, but it makes you more comfortable because you don't feel like you have to pay extra attention to what you say and how you say it. (Same thing is true in reverse, by the way - women change how they talk and behave when a man is in the group.)

If that analogy doesn't work for you, you can use any people who make you fundamentally monitor how you behave - your parents, teachers, coworkers, whatever.

Point is, it's not so much about existing cons being rampantly homophobic (though sure, sometimes that happens), but rather creating an environment where you don't have to worry about that at all. You walk through the door more able to be comfortably you, expressing all aspects of your personality. Sexuality informs many aspects of our life, big and small - everything from the clothes we wear to the entertainment we like to the kind of character we want to talk about to the cosplay we admire. No, it's not like attendees would necessarily be WOOO I'M GAYYYYYY the entire time they're at the show, but they wouldn't have to worry about getting uncomfortable looks when they mention their same-sex partner, or getting stared at if they held hands as they perused artist's alley.

Plenty of gaymers have wonderful experiences at cons, but I love the idea of GaymerCon. A place where people can feel safe as welcome as they celebrate their geekitude? Fantastic!

Y'know, I was never really bothered by the whole idea of a gaymer con - it doesn't hurt me, and whatever floats their boat. These underlying, more subtle tribulations gays have to go through never really occurred to me. I guess fighting homophobic legislations is only half the battle - the other cultural half still needs to be sorted through.

Thanks for your post, Susan.

 

[Screamarie]

What I want to know is...do they check your gay card before you walk through the door? Because if not, then there's nothing "segregating" about it. They're just making a convention aimed specifically for the LGBT community. Making it to where more than likely any one who attends is either part of or in support of the LGBT community and don't have to worry about someone shouting "HOMO!" if they show the slightest inclination of being gay...or I suppose for lesbians being told to kiss random women for the enjoyment of the straight men there.

It's the same as making a COMIC con or an ANIME con or a VIDEO GAME con. You're just gearing most of the features and/or the community attending to be focused on noticing or accepting a specific facet of gamer culture. And as long as there are gay gamers then they are apart of our culture, just like the sexist "i don't want to share my toys" man children and entitled 13 years old swearing at you on Xbox live (not drawing any connections between the three, just saying you gotta take the good with the bad).