On Gaymers and Cons

[Something Amyss]

Yeah... because that's what happens regularly: gay people discriminating against straight people. It's not like it's the other way round or anything.

I think Todd in the Shadows said it best: you gay people have no idea what it's like to be excluded!

Not only that, but here's the description of the con in question:

On August 3 & 4th, 2013, we will gather for Gaymer X (formerly called GaymerCon) in San Francisco, CA for an exciting weekend of gaming, geek culture, tech talk,and some partying. We have some amazing bosses of honor and even a Gaymer X Concert! Gaymer X is open to all, whether you?re bisexual, transgender, gay, asexual or an ally and we hope to make an experience that will be meaningful as well as educational and fascinating.

He's totally going to get discriminated against if he shows up.

...Although, they do say "ally," and I can't help but feel he might be a bit antagonistic.

 

[Orekoya]

The question being asked is still - why is this required?

And here is the answer: it isn't required. I have seen no mandate requiring it. This fulfills no needs.

Asking why it's required or needed misses the point of wants. IE: This is something some people want to do.

 

[Weaver]

I'm not sure I fully agree.
I remember when they announced the "gaymercon" idea and my gay friend at work (myself and him being the only two really into gaming and culture) really didn't like the idea and thought it was kind of silly.

His reasoning basically being: if you go to a gaming convention, you're there for the games; not to express your sexuality.
Maybe it's me coming from the rave scene full of twink guys, transvestites and a large amount of bisexuality; but I've never felt people at conventions were "out to get the gays" or whatever nonsense.

In fact, I've found most of them to be welcoming and accepting of really weird shit, especially at anime conventions. A guy's walking around with a love pillow of what looks to be an illegally young girl, sex toys from Japan and shipman underwear? No one bats an eye. Why would someone care if you like to sex up some dudes?

I personally do see it as segregation, of sorts. We don't have "gay restaurants" or "gay buses" or "gay offices". Why do we need a gaming convention for gays? For example, in my school there was a "Christian Club" for christians to gather and do, well I dunno, religious stuff I guess. There was also an "Asian Christian Club". Why was this needed? I even knew some Asians who were really upset about how the Asian students kept making "Asian" versions of all the clubs; saying it promoted segregation and was practically racist. The odd caveat being, per university policy, you could not exclude anyone from a club due to race, sexuality, etc.

Yes there are gay, lesbian and bisexual clubs in universities. Yes there are bars for gay men and women. But these are for the explicit purpose of meeting people of your own sexuality, something it can be difficult to do in "normal" (and I'm sorry to word it like that) bars, due to the stigma. To me, conventions were never thought of as nightclubs. I wasn't there to pick up people, I was there to celebrate the collective hobbies and passtimes that some of us maybe take way too seriously; no matter their race or sexuality. I talked up a gay guy cosplaying as peach at fanexpo this year; he was a pretty nice guy. I didn't think it was weird at all.

If the gaymercon were a celebration of gay rights, I'd be 100% on board. I might even go!

I dunno, maybe this is a very American problem. I don't know how homosexuals are treated down there. Maybe I'm just ignorant. We have a Christian pasture in my family, and he gets so mad hearing about gay people being persecuted simply for their sexuality. I've heard him rant for half an hour about it before. Even my 80 year old grandparents couldn't care less about someone's sexuality. Perhaps I've been privileged to grow up in an open minded environment?

 

[XSin]

Lets not forget the best thing about Gaymer Con. . . Booth Bros xD

Actually you'd want some eyecandy for the chicks too so I can imagine that there would be Booth Babes also, hell, they probably don't even get harassed to the point of self-loathing and murderous wrath (as I've been told is common for promo girls at hetero-male dominated events)

 

[Something Amyss]

I'm going to post this (though it's already been posted before) because people don't seem to be reading it. It addresses a lot of the issues for sure, and is probably the only time I can tolerate the person who wrote it.

http://www.destructoid.com/the-importance-of-a-gay-gamer-convention-232467.phtml

This line alone makes it worth the read for me:

You can argue that LGBT people are "segregating themselves" by grouping together, but they were already pretty damn segregated -- not to mention alone. It can be lonely, and fucking terrifying to be gay. Just this week, through the social networks and grinning right-wing pundits, even I felt a level of fear by the hatred and venom being directed at the LGBT community over a fucking chicken sandwich.

He's also got a point with privilege, because a lot of people really don't know what it's like to be singled out like that. The arguments about self-segregation come from people who don't seem aware that the LGBT community gets treated like crap, period.

 

[thenumberthirteen]

Hilarity of my jokes aside, why do you care if they have a gaymer con? Need or not, they want it and since these thing exist entirely to satisfy want there is one.

Well, that's just the point: Attempting to understand the desire for such an event. After all, sexuality and gaming are not things that appear excessively connected at first glance. It's especially important to ask the question in case the answer is 'because gaymers don't feel comfortable at regular conventions.' If it's just something that happens because hey, why not, then we can just move on, but quite a few of us nerd types would like to be able to take pride in our culture being one of the most welcoming to everybody, and if it isn't, we'd like to know that.

Ok, let me give you an analogy. You are in a room with your friends and the group is entirely male. You tend to wind up speaking and acting a certain way - maybe you swear a little more, maybe you care less about farting, maybe you bring up hot girls a little more than you would if there were a girl present. It's a subtle shift in behavior that isn't a big deal in and of itself, but it makes you more comfortable because you don't feel like you have to pay extra attention to what you say and how you say it. (Same thing is true in reverse, by the way - women change how they talk and behave when a man is in the group.)

If that analogy doesn't work for you, you can use any people who make you fundamentally monitor how you behave - your parents, teachers, coworkers, whatever.

Point is, it's not so much about existing cons being rampantly homophobic (though sure, sometimes that happens), but rather creating an environment where you don't have to worry about that at all. You walk through the door more able to be comfortably you, expressing all aspects of your personality. Sexuality informs many aspects of our life, big and small - everything from the clothes we wear to the entertainment we like to the kind of character we want to talk about to the cosplay we admire. No, it's not like attendees would necessarily be WOOO I'M GAYYYYYY the entire time they're at the show, but they wouldn't have to worry about getting uncomfortable looks when they mention their same-sex partner, or getting stared at if they held hands as they perused artist's alley.

Plenty of gaymers have wonderful experiences at cons, but I love the idea of GaymerCon. A place where people can feel safe as welcome as they celebrate their geekitude? Fantastic!

Thank you Susan. When I hear you say things like this I truly see why you're in charge because you know what you're talking about.

I love the idea of GaymerCon (now GaymerX), and I'd love to go if it weren't on another continent (though I donated to the Kickstarter and got some funky stickers). It makes me sad to see people just not get it, and even get legitimately angry at the idea.

It can be really scary expressing your feelings among strangers, and even people you know and love (I was so scared to tell my parents). The idea of having a fun convention mixing the two things I love most, gaming and my boyfriend, sounds pretty good to me

 

[squid5580]

Because old bean there is a wide streak of both Homophobia and misogyny in gaming culture. Shit just look at anything like tropes vs women in game furore for a premium example of exactly what is wrong with gamer culture.

The thing about prejudices is that they tend to be invisible (or at least appear significantly more minor) when you are not among the group the prejudice is against. Bits of Homophobia which are obvious to gays (As mentioned above, the prevalence of the word 'fag' as a generic slur) are not always obvious to straight gamers who just don't consider such things.

By asking that question, it becomes possible to progress from 'Is there a problem with gaming culture?' to 'What, specifically, is wrong with gaming culture?' It's impossible to fix a problem if a large portion of the people responsible are unaware (Or simply are unaware that people actually care) that there's a problem.

Fine high minded thinking. Which naturally means that the very people that need to ask the question to see it never will.

Hence the want for things like geek girl con [http://www.geekgirlcon.com/] and gaymer con.

But if someone were to make a "straight white male con" there would be hell to pay.

 

[Xan Krieger]

Wouldn't the best thing be for everyone to go to one convention for everyone? It would be a place for people, not gays or straights. Are you a person? Come on in. Not a person? How the hell are you reading this?

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I find the demand for a GaymerCon to be a bit worrying, actually.

If it's all about "feeling like you fit in", what do straight people have to do to make gay people feel like they fit in with everyday life? Clearly, we're doing a bad job.

I've just stated that I find such a con and people's need for one ridiculous.

Well think about it this way. Have you ever wanted a "guys night down" at the pub? Alternatively ever wanted a "Girls night out"? Not exclusively of course, not the ONLY event you attend, but as a one off in a life where you spend 99% of the time attending events for everyone. It doesnt make you sexist to gather your male friends and go watch a game of rugby down at the pub and have a chat, nor is it sexist to gather or your female friends and go have a drink down at the pub to discuss your lives and maybe also watch some rugby alternatively you could go buy some kickass suits together as a group of guys and feel suave and awesome and go buy a load of awesome dresses as a group of women and feel suave and kickass.

It might be the EXACT same activity but the fact is we sometimes take a little bit of happiness from just being around people similar to us, even if its in a really shallow way. Ive had a guys night out. My girlfriend has had some girls nights out. It doesnt make us unable to interact in a mixed sex society. It doesnt make us sexist. It doesnt mean we such at making eachother feel equal and welcome. Its just a little bit of shallow comfort in something relatively unimportant. And as long as we dont become hermits living inside our own tiny circles of "same" having a tiny bit of "Same" time doesnt hurt nor is it indicative that anyone is making anyone else feel unwelcome.

A bunch of guys going to down to a pub together to enjoy a rugby game is the same to me as a bunch of gaymers who enjoy games going down to a gaymer con to enjoy some games. Its just a little nice ya know? if youve ever enjoyed an event like i described thats the same feeling these people want.

I think about this in the same way. And i understand totally why people seek it out. As long as no one is FORBIDDEN entry based on sexuality i dont see an issue. Some places are built to be male dominated environments so we can get a little "same" time. Some are built to be womens places or womens nights out like Hen and Stag doos. It doesnt hurt as long as it doesnt totally absorb us nor does it exclude anyone out of your life.

EDIT: Its also not segregation because its not long term or an inbuilt part of any system. Its a single event. Geared to make some people who (for whatever reason rightly or wrongly) want to feel welcome and accepted among people who share something with them that they might find scary or lonely or weird. And thats nice. It isnt "Segregation" to have a dudes sleepover. Thats ridiculous. As long as you still learn to interact with a mixed society and live your life in one having a few events in one or two places made for people the same as you isnt a bad thing.

 

[AniThari]

Maybe they want a convention to prove they aren't as niche a market as say, everyone who went to the Escapist Expo?

*wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*

But yeah, this isn't a subdivide. Conventions call attention to groups which gives them more power, and greater voice because companies can make money, and when companies make money everyone becomes a dollar sign to them, and when everyone becomes a dollar sign "TAH DAH" equality everywhere! Capitalism HO!

But seriously if someone doesn't want to play in your tree house anymore, big whoop if they build their own since it?s not like they're going to steal the wood planks from out under you. Oh no, someone doesn't want to put aside a factor of their life and just 'fit in' with a large group of people for 14+ hours a day for [what should be] a fun filled [and comfortable] week, for shame.

Honestly, have none of you ever been the wallflower of a party? Have you never just wanted to be comfortable? Isn't that why you're on this website instead of trolling on your nearest forum about the "console wars?" This is the equivalent of someone telling me I don't have to factor in that I'm female on the outside because I'm 'on of the guys' on the inside (this comment brought to you by dude who will never be in the friend circle). Just because the guys I'm talking with consider me on that level doesn't mean I forget to the outside world I am a 4'10" woman who looks like the term kidnapped would be used instead of the word abducted, if such an event was to occur.

I believe the original purpose of conventions wasn't for fans anyway. They were for industry professionals to meet up and discuss the current climate. I think it would be nice if major companies took notice of one of the "niche" markets so they can make characters that can't be defined by "that one gay guy/lesbian chick in __________". Or maybe we'll finally get an all-male race of eye candy just like the ASARI! Although knowing Bioware they would all have tragic and horrible backstories where they blow up a space station or something near the end of the game.

(( Post filled with sarcasm and a little fan-hate: none of which to be taken seriously, unless that's your thing. If so, why do all Warcraft women eventually go crazy and start killing everyone if they're in power? That seems like some rather unfortunate implications on Blizzard's part; i.e., women in power will go megalomaniacal and wreck everything.

To be honest I just want to see how many make it to the end of this post since I always feel about half of the comments aimed at these comics are always because someone couldn't be bothered to read the notes all the through to the end. ^_^ HIGH FIVES FOR EVERYONE! ))

 

[Susan Arendt]

Wouldn't the best thing be for everyone to go to one convention for everyone? It would be a place for people, not gays or straights. Are you a person? Come on in. Not a person? How the hell are you reading this?

Absolutely, that would be wonderful. That is, in fact, the ideal. It is not, however, what actually happens. So then the question becomes, so you want to deal with the goal or the practical reality? Both answers have merit, but you can understand why not everyone would necessarily want to "fight the power," per se, but would rather just enjoy themselves.

 

[Hoplon]

But if someone were to make a "straight white male con" there would be hell to pay.

When the majority (in the EU/US) are that thing that is most of the cons, they don't have to name it like that. It's a given. Which is kind of the problem.

 

[zehydra]

"being able to "fit in" (hoho) pretty much anywhere is one of the numerous luxuries that come with being straight"

not really. I identified as straight for a very long time and didn't fit in anywhere. Please don't generalize about the supposed "benefits" majorities have.

 

[zehydra]

But if someone were to make a "straight white male con" there would be hell to pay.

When the majority (in the EU/US) are that thing that is most of the cons, they don't have to name it like that. It's a given. Which is kind of the problem.

It's not a given, regular cons aren't "NO GAYS" cons.

 

[Something Amyss]

But if someone were to make a "straight white male con" there would be hell to pay.

Would it be exclusive? GaymerX isn't.

People are so quick to try and be clever about this, but the fact is the default con really is a straight white male con. The only real difference would be if they actually said "no gays, minorities, or women." And that's not really equivalent to GaymerX or similar, because they. Don't. Do. That.

 

[Hoplon]

But if someone were to make a "straight white male con" there would be hell to pay.

When the majority (in the EU/US) are that thing that is most of the cons, they don't have to name it like that. It's a given. Which is kind of the problem.

It's not a given, regular cons aren't "NO GAYS" cons.

No, but they also aren't hives of tolerance and inclusiveness either.

 

[Peithelo]

Differentiating people of different sexualities in such a way that would even indirectly encourage them to remain seperated from one another merely increases the disconnect between every side of this societal issue. Doing so would further indicate that there is in fact a relevant societal disconnect betweem people of different sexualities, but it would do absolutely nothing to remedy the situtation directly, I think. There is of course a chance it could raise awareness of such issues, but I feel that such issues should be discussed more openly.

The term "Gaymer" itself is outright absurd. It seems to suggest that being homosexual and enjoying video games are the defining aspects of your characters. They most definitely are not and letting other people think they are is counterproductive. What people actually need to do is to stop thinking of things like sexuality and gender as the singular defining factors of one's character. There absolutely should be no need to specifically distinquish between things like sexuality when the subject has nothing to do with them.

While no one is excluded an unnecessary distinction (in relation to a particular public event) between people is still being made and the segregation of these people is indirectly encouraged or at least implied. It is quite worrying that such measures are even concidered necessary to guarantee relative comfort in public events. Personally I would rather attempt to endure all of the uncomfortable looks and even harassment if it gave me the opportunity to spread awareness instead of avoiding all opposition altogether.

Making everyone feel comfortable is naturally what we should strive to achieve, but I simply do not believe that the creation of a limited and seperated enviroment for any specific people in the minority is the right way to approach this problem in the long-term.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

It's not a given, regular cons aren't "NO GAYS" cons.

You do realise straight people are allowed to go to Gaymer cons right? Its just the issues discussed and atmosphere are made to make people feel comfortable at home if they are seeking a little time to feel like part of a majority. Sure its shallow but we all do that sometimes and it isnt discriminatory if its just a one off event and no one is FORBIDDEN from attending. And it makes people happy obviously since people go. I cant begrudge them that.

 

[Something Amyss]

It's not a given, regular cons aren't "NO GAYS" cons.

And yet, in failing to actually deal with harassment, there's only a difference in terms of semantics.

 

[Xan Krieger]

Wouldn't the best thing be for everyone to go to one convention for everyone? It would be a place for people, not gays or straights. Are you a person? Come on in. Not a person? How the hell are you reading this?

Absolutely, that would be wonderful. That is, in fact, the ideal. It is not, however, what actually happens. So then the question becomes, so you want to deal with the goal or the practical reality? Both answers have merit, but you can understand why not everyone would necessarily want to "fight the power," per se, but would rather just enjoy themselves.

I got quoted by Susan Arendt? Best January EVER.
Also I've never been to a gaming convention so my opinion on the subject is kinda worthless.