On Gaymers and Cons

[Sparrow]

Sooo, if innocent questions are all fine and dandy, what is there at a gay con there there isn't a straight con? Isn't the draw of most cons to promote and show off new and unreleased games? I don't know of many gay focused games coming out in the near future, so... what do gay cons have that straight cons don't?

 

[stonemaskstoryteller]

Yes sexuality and games may be a far cry from each other, but it's not about homosexuality AND games. You'd be hard pressed to find many games with gay main characters after all...rather Gaymer con sets up an ENVIROMENT in which gay people and same-sex couples can discuss games, walk around around with their partners, or hold hands while they que.

Also Gaymer con isn't "segregated", anyone and everyone is allowed to join regardless of their sexuality. The only difference is that you'll proberbly find a more open and welcoming crowd...and more gay people in the open. In an ideal society there wouldn't be a need to make a separate con and we could just go to regular game con, but in an ideal society, no gay person would have to be careful never to mention their partner or to mention that they think any same-sex game character is attractive. I mean, when has ANYONE ever gone to a convention and not at least once mentioned who they they think is the most attractive game character? It'd be nice to do that without people staring at you like you're a freak.

To be honest, when it boils down to it. Most Gaymers are just trying to have fun like everyone else, geek out, discuss games and go to a convention as well as feel safe and welcome to discuss their relationships and their lifestyle if need be. All without the funny looks. We're not asking much. =/

 

[OniaPL]

And I have explained it, and so have dozens of other people.
At Con A, these people feel uncomfortable
At Con B, they aren't, so they prefer this one.
There, explained.

Well, that is reasonable I guess. I suppose it just irks me that people get uncomfortable so easily and hold their own little party to escape it.
But that has nothing to do with the topic at hand, meaning conventions or "gaymers", so I accept your reasoning.

 

[Sepko]

I am sorry but this entire thing is just "You don't understaaaaand!"

The question being asked is still - why is this required? What do they get out of the con other than a 99% guarantee that malice directed at homosexuals will not be present? If the intent is just to seclude themselves to avoid an uncomfortable situation I guess I can understand it... but it doesn't help in the grand scheme of things. I thought the ides was for gender and sexuality to be a complete non-issue. This is turning that idea on its head.

Is this just an escape con for homosexuals? Will there be certain agendas being discussed in reference to homosexuality being present in the medium and how one can go about incorporating it in a more tasteful fashion?

I guess it makes me feel uncomfortable that homosexuals would be ridiculed at a normal gaming convention... who is doing this ridiculing and why are they allowed to remain on the premises?

Why should you care? If you're not interested why should you give two slivers of a crap about anything that the LGBT gaming community is doing in the the slightest? It really sounds like you're worried this is somehow the beginning of a hostile takeover or something. It's an alternative venue for a facet of gaming culture and their supporters to attend. Nothing more. It's not going to stop us from going to all the other cons that we've always been going to since the dawn of time.

Also yeah, there'll totally be gay agenda talks about our 12-month plan to replace all gaming with butt-humping simulators.

 

[OfficialJab]

And I have explained it, and so have dozens of other people.
At Con A, these people feel uncomfortable
At Con B, they aren't, so they prefer this one.
There, explained.

Well, that is reasonable I guess. I suppose it just irks me that people get uncomfortable so easily and hold their own little party to escape it.
But that has nothing to do with the topic at hand, meaning conventions or "gaymers", so I accept your reasoning.

And you know what? I accept your and Abomination's point that it appears as an "Escape Con". That's how it's largely being marketed, anyways. But its more like a "Sensible Humans Con", where loudmouthed bigoted morons are made to feel uneasy instead. There will also probably be a large helping of panels/shops etc. targeted at the titular demographic, but that's not really harmful anyways.

 

[Susan Arendt]

It's hardly "segregation" - it's an option. Gay people can attend any con they like, straight people can attend GaymerCon if they like. We should deny people the option to go somewhere that they can feel comfortable because...why, exactly?

I'm not arguing against GaymerCon, people are free to do as they please and market forces will determine the success/failure of the event, just as any other. And, of course, I don't begrudge or deny anyone a specifically tailored event if they feel they don't fit in well enough to the "main" group.

Looking over the event roster, they've tailored the discussion around gay issues, which I'm sure hardly (if ever) come up at a "regular" convention - so, you know, that's cool and warrants its own convention just to get those topics aired so in this regard I think it's great.

However, that's not the basis on which you made your initial comment and really is what I was attempting to reply to.

Perhaps because of how my gay gamer friends are, I don't see how it's hard to fit in at these events. Just like I wouldn't walk around a convention talking to people about how I like to have sex with women, they wouldn't walk around talking about having sex with guys. And that's the only way in which we differ (except in dress sense, I'm always so jealous of the great business suits one is always buying). So, I don't get that point. I don't see gays skipping through the street holding flowers and singing "la-dilly-la" all day, so, how do they feel excluded or out of place? They're just people, like everyone else - where's the issue?

If you really, truly, don't see the issue, then that means you haven't really seen the everyday bullshit that gay folks have to put up with, and that's actually a wonderful thing to hear. It's not really all that unusual to see people sneering at a gay couple holding hands, or see someone actually move away from them as though "the gay" is contagious. As a previous poster has already said, terms like "fag" and "oh, that's so gay" get tossed around constantly, and while that may not bother your friends (and, indeed, doesn't bother many in the community), it does bother many others. It's hurtful and a constant reminder that "I don't accept you."

If you've ever said "oh, she's cute" out loud, you're expressing your sexual preference, albeit in a very understated way. If you've ever said "Yeah, I saw that movie with my girlfriend last week," you're stating your sexual preference. You don't have to be having a conversation about how you specifically like sex with women in order to be stating a sexual preference; it happens in lots of little ways just in everyday behavior. And many people respond to that behavior in ugly ways. You may not give a damn who someone's shagging, and that's absolutely fantastic, but you are, sadly, not necessarily typical.

 

[Sepko]

Why make it a gaming event then? If you need pats on the back and loving acceptance then just make a therapy group or something.

Are you serious? Are y--was that a thing you just typed? Why shouldn't we have an event that celebrates a certain facet in the diamond that is gaming culture? It's not like we'd ban anyone who wasn't LGBT, you can totally go too, cuz you're totally supportive of the LGBT folk, right?

Right?

I don't go to cons anyways, so I think I'll pass.

And it seems like you are taking this as a some kind of assault against the rights of the LGBT community. I just don't personally understand what the effin' point is in this. LGBT community isn't special; they are just another group of people. I fail to see why a certain group would need to organize their very own convention.

And the desire for acceptance isn't just a reason enough for me, and honestly I would despise people who'd attend a con just in hopes of acceptance.

It may not be reason enough for you, but who are you to pass judgement on what cons people can or can't create/attend based on their reasoning?

 

[Deathfish15]

I find the demand for a GaymerCon to be a bit worrying, actually.

If it's all about "feeling like you fit in", what do straight people have to do to make gay people feel like they fit in with everyday life? Clearly, we're doing a bad job.

Stop saying everything is "gay" that you* don't like as a bad thing. Quit calling people "faggots" just because you* dislike them or what they do. Stop verbally assaulting people who are different than you* and making fun of people for their life's choice. That all would be a very well minded start.



I think it would help if developers would discourage misbehavior a lot more and start to adhere to their so called "Terms of Service", which calls for suspensions and bans of people that use foul language and derogatory statements towards fellow gamers. I report on an almost daily basis without any result, sadly enough.




*The "you" in the first paragraph was entirely towards gamers in general as a statement to what they do to make others feel like outcasts.

 

[UniversalRonin]

I am sorry but this entire thing is just "You don't understaaaaand!"

The question being asked is still - why is this required? What do they get out of the con other than a 99% guarantee that malice directed at homosexuals will not be present? If the intent is just to seclude themselves to avoid an uncomfortable situation I guess I can understand it... but it doesn't help in the grand scheme of things. I thought the ides was for gender and sexuality to be a complete non-issue. This is turning that idea on its head.

Is this just an escape con for homosexuals? Will there be certain agendas being discussed in reference to homosexuality being present in the medium and how one can go about incorporating it in a more tasteful fashion?

I guess it makes me feel uncomfortable that homosexuals would be ridiculed at a normal gaming convention... who is doing this ridiculing and why are they allowed to remain on the premises?

Why should you care? If you're not interested why should you give two slivers of a crap about anything that the LGBT gaming community is doing in the the slightest? It really sounds like you're worried this is somehow the beginning of a hostile takeover or something. It's an alternative venue for a facet of gaming culture and their supporters to attend. Nothing more. It's not going to stop us from going to all the other cons that we've always been going to since the dawn of time.

Also yeah, there'll totally be gay agenda talks about our 12-month plan to replace all gaming with butt-humping simulators.

You just reminded me of an old Oatmeal comic strip. http://theoatmeal.com/comics/literally The bottom panel about the Gay steamroller.

 

[TilMorrow]

Either way, I still think there was a ridiculous amount of money raised for this thing that doesn't really seem to have any clear purpose. I mean what's the difference between a Convention about video games and this *sigh* Gaymer(Why?) X 2013 Convention? I mean they're both about games and the only difference with the latter Convention is that it seems to want to primarily attract a crowd made up of gamers whom are homosexual.
...
...
At least I hope the second one is about games. Anyway... Just seems a little silly is all.

 

[stonemaskstoryteller]

I find the demand for a GaymerCon to be a bit worrying, actually.

If it's all about "feeling like you fit in", what do straight people have to do to make gay people feel like they fit in with everyday life? Clearly, we're doing a bad job.

Just don't freak out or give us weird looks when we discuss which same-sex game characters are pretty hot. Or if we decide to bring our partners along and hold hands.
It's as simple as that. =)

Though sadly it's not simple enough for some folks =(

 

[Alcaste]

I know that you're not, I have no problem with this, I just can't seem to wrap my head around it. Maybe I just fall into the category of thinkers that just ignoring a problem doesn't do anything to solve it and that we need to face it head on and not just run away from it.

Precisely. This is doing something about it by making the culture more well-known to everyone involved. It's GOOD that people are asking these questions about 'why' its required. It allows them to then look inwards when they get their answer (whether they immediately accept the answer or not is up to the individual). It may not be your most preferred method, but it is a method, and it might just work.

 

[bunji]

Well you didn't do much reading, because nobody is excluded from the event, and certainly not based on orientation.

Also, 'ignorance' and 'importance' aren't related. The thing is, this con shouldn't really be an 'important' topic in that way. The fact that it is becoming such a dramatic issue with some people should make its validity self-evident. In fact, tons of events and conventions surrounding different populations, minorities, groups, and so-on occur all the time. Doesn't it get your gears turning when one that gets this much special attention, it's from the straight gaming community that 'don't understand it'?

To be fair I didn't, but my point still sort of stands - there is a double morale here, propogated by events like these, and while I understand the need for a "minority" to have something of their own, I feel they may just be creating more issues for themselves by pulling stunts like these. I'm not straight myself, but nothing made me loathe people who identify as having a diverging sexuality than the pride parade.

To clarify, I dont say that these kinds of events shouldnt exist, I just question whether or not they aren't just creating more waves unnecessarily.

Also, I follow alot of game-related news sites and I havent heard any vitriol for this gaymer con, honestly (as with people hating on Halo fanboys) i hear the complaints about the complaints alot more than i hear the actual complaints.

 

[Abomination]

I am sorry but this entire thing is just "You don't understaaaaand!"

The question being asked is still - why is this required? What do they get out of the con other than a 99% guarantee that malice directed at homosexuals will not be present? If the intent is just to seclude themselves to avoid an uncomfortable situation I guess I can understand it... but it doesn't help in the grand scheme of things. I thought the ides was for gender and sexuality to be a complete non-issue. This is turning that idea on its head.

Is this just an escape con for homosexuals? Will there be certain agendas being discussed in reference to homosexuality being present in the medium and how one can go about incorporating it in a more tasteful fashion?

I guess it makes me feel uncomfortable that homosexuals would be ridiculed at a normal gaming convention... who is doing this ridiculing and why are they allowed to remain on the premises?

Why should you care? If you're not interested why should you give two slivers of a crap about anything that the LGBT gaming community is doing in the the slightest? It really sounds like you're worried this is somehow the beginning of a hostile takeover or something. It's an alternative venue for a facet of gaming culture and their supporters to attend. Nothing more. It's not going to stop us from going to all the other cons that we've always been going to since the dawn of time.

Also yeah, there'll totally be gay agenda talks about our 12-month plan to replace all gaming with butt-humping simulators.

And who is being the dick now?

I CARE because I want to know what has prompted this, I want to know the cause for such a thing.

As Susan stated maybe I just happen to live in an area of the world where I do not see homosexuals being discriminated against? And she is right, it is awesome it's like that where I live.

I care that this is a thing because it has actually come to this. I thought gamers that had the income and desire to attend a con would be more refined and accepting individuals, it seems my faith was misplaced.

So no, I don't view it as a "hostile takeover" or whatever absurdity you're suggesting. I care because I love homosexuals. I care because I'm ashamed it has come to this in the medium I support. I want to know the reasons for this so I might be able to do something to prevent this type of event from needing to occur in order for homosexuals to enjoy the medium as much as I do.

The comic comparing it to a Martial Arts/Meditation Temple or a Woman's Bathroom is entirely missing the point of my concerns about the event.

 

[Sepko]

"Gay Gamer Convention: Straights Also Welcome" - perfectly ok

"Straight Gamer Convention: Gays Also Welcome" - horrible discrimination

Now it is disgusting AND hypocritical. Progress.

Is that a selling point for mainstream cons? Cuz if not that analogy is the stupidest thing I've ever read.

 

[Erttheking]

I know that you're not, I have no problem with this, I just can't seem to wrap my head around it. Maybe I just fall into the category of thinkers that just ignoring a problem doesn't do anything to solve it and that we need to face it head on and not just run away from it.

Precisely. This is doing something about it by making the culture more well-known to everyone involved. It's GOOD that people are asking these questions about 'why' its required. It allows them to then look inwards when they get their answer (whether they immediately accept the answer or not is up to the individual). It may not be your most preferred method, but it is a method, and it might just work.

Not to be rude, but I think the people that the members of the LGBT community are trying to get away from aren't exactly going to do a 180 because the people that they mock went somewhere else. It just don't think that they'll be that mature.

 

[OniaPL]

It may not be reason enough for you, but who are you to pass judgement on what cons people can or can't create/attend based on their reasoning?

What do you mean? I am a human being. I have my own opinions, my own likes and dislikes, and this is an open discussion about the topic where people express their opinions. I have not thrown any attacks against you or a specific group of people; I've just stated that I find such a con and people's need for one ridiculous.

 

[stonemaskstoryteller]

"Gay Gamer Convention: Straights Also Welcome" - perfectly ok

"Straight Gamer Convention: Gays Also Welcome" - horrible discrimination

Now it is disgusting AND hypocritical. Progress.

That makes no sense. If "gays also welcome" were whole heartedly true it wouldn't be discriminatory. I think you're assuming singling a group of people out by default means they reject everyone else. It's not, The emphasis of Gaymer con is just to show that discussing sexuality, in addition to games and all things geek, isn't a taboo topic.

 

[Hagi]

Liked the comic, especially the guy without pants and it makes a valid point.

Bit sad at the whole "if you're a white and straight teenager then you wouldn't understand" vibe of the description though. That's just a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you go in expecting others to misunderstand then chances are pretty high that that's how things will end up.

Issues like this are never solved by even more alienation, it's vital to seek common ground from which to build understanding. Going in with the expectation that there's no such common ground because the opposite side is of a specific race, sexual orientation, age etc. is anathema to tolerance and understanding.

It's not like it's gonna stop us going to other cons just because we've got the gay one now. The gay one is an option, that's all, a place where we can be a bit more comfortable an open if we want. It's not segregation if we have a choice to go to where we wanna go.

Captcha: rack your brains
No joke.

Erm... did you quote the wrong post?

I didn't make any claims that anyone would stop visiting anything for any reason nor did I say anything about segregation.

Just a bit confused why you quoted me as if I was making this out to be a bad thing in any way, I've got no problems whatsoever with a gaymer convention or any other convention for a niche audience. The only thing I find somewhat disappointing is the idea in the description that such conventions can't be understood by white straight teenagers. I think a basic level of understanding is reachable on most any subject if one side is willing to explain and the other is willing to listen.

 

[Sepko]

Mh, I see the point here - I just completely disagree with it, frankly.

Here's why.

First off, I'm a woman and if they made a videogame convention dedicated to women, I would NOT attend it. I want female gamers to be equal to male gamers.
Do I even need to add how retarded a videogame convention dedicated to shaolin monks would be?

So, tell me: why then, a videogame convention dedicated to gay is apparently ok?

I repeat: this. is. a. GAME CONVENTION.

It's not a pub or a place to flirt, it's not something that needs a discrimination for gay or for women or for different religion.
So the message I -am- getting from the existence of a gay videogame convention, is that gay people feel themselves to be so irreparably different from heterosexual people that even when it comes to something like videogames, they need their very own version of it.

Read the blurb under the comic and then reevaluate your statement.