On Gaymers and Cons

[IamLEAM1983]

As has been said in this thread a lot, there is a passive hostility with some of the community towards homosexuality, particularly on the younger end of the spectrum.

The only way this will ever get fixed is if we try and prevent the trivialization of certain words and epithets. Trying to stop that from happening, though, along with trying to circumscribe the words "Gamer" or "Nerd" to sheltered and socially awkward types, is just plainly impossible.

What's "gay", nowadays, if you go by my younger cousins' vocabulary, is anything that feels even remotely pointless. A "******" is anyone who's prone to relying on repetitive tactics in online games, or who's slow on the uptake. In the context of multiplayer games, being "gay" refers to being unskilled. I've tried to explain to one of my cousin's kids that this is fairly discriminatory, but he doesn't see it that way.

It warrants confusion, but some young 'uns think that there's being gay, and then there"s "being gay", fingerquotes included. One refers to the sexual orientation - with which they have no problems whatsoever - and the other refers to sticking to cheese tactics or being unskilled. Try and untangle that knot with someone who's absorbed that non-logic so completely that he fails to understand he might be understood as being offensive...

 

[Erttheking]

I've got nothing against homosexuals getting their own gamer con, but what I don't understand is how their sexuality would change their approach to gaming in a way that's significant enough to warrant its own celebration. I mean, gamers come from all horizons, all stratas of society, all races and all sexual orientations. What unites us is our love of the medium.

That's what I've always loved about gaming, how uniting it has been - Particularly in the early stages of the community's development.

That said, it has things to work on. As has been said in this thread a lot, there is a passive hostility with some of the community towards homosexuality, particularly on the younger end of the spectrum (I am not saying that all younger gamers are homophobes, just that it comes up a lot.) The con is an answer to that so that there's a place for them to feel more comfortable than usual, which is totally fine. Someday we won't need it. Can't wait for that day.

Well who CARES about what they think? They're part of the problem. We shouldn't have to step on egg shells around these people. We should tell them "this is what's happening, suck it up or get lost" These people need a good slap in the face, just like the people who used to go on about how gaming was a boys only club, we shouldn't be afraid to make changes for progress because of some bad apples.

And the point I was trying to make earlier is that I'd be willing to bet that the majority of these types of people wouldn't even know about the LGBT con, so they wouldn't really care about it or the fact that they were causing a need for it. So it wouldn't accomplish a lot in that area.

Not everyone is that confrontational. You are, I am. I would love to give them a good slap in the face. My friends and I constantly call out homophobia while we play online games, and hope that sometimes we make at least a little bit of a difference (particularly when we rally up other players that we haven't met before)

And yeah, a lot of people won't even notice. They're a non-factor if that's the case. The people that WOULD notice are the ones that would either A: want to make a difference (they miss them) or B: need to be changed (they're forced to reflect)

I think the people who are like that are going to seriously be in the minority, I don't know how much it'll help.

And I kinda feel like an asshole for saying this, but Martin Luther King Jr. didn't gain so much momentum for the equal rights movement by being passive aggressive. I have no idea why, but I apologize for that last sentence.

 

[Kecunk]

If Gaymers want to have their own thing then thats cool.

But anytime there is "x" thing for "x" people there will always be somebody left asking why.

I just think its kinda funny that in regards to this those people are viewed as ignorant or bigoted or both But if there was ever a con designed to be specifically for straigh males there would be somekind of outrage.

Because cons designed for a minority compared to cons for the massive majority should totally be compared on equal terms.

Not trying to be a dick just trying to make the point that equality goes both ways.

If "x" group excludes "y" group and anybody who questions it is a dick

But "y" group excludes "x" group its because "y" group is full of dicks

With the only reasoning being that "y" group is bigger or has been around longer. Then that still not very equal.

Everybody should have the right to have their own thing just for them.

 

[Sepko]

If Gaymers want to have their own thing then thats cool.

But anytime there is "x" thing for "x" people there will always be somebody left asking why.

I just think its kinda funny that in regards to this those people are viewed as ignorant or bigoted or both But if there was ever a con designed to be specifically for straigh males there would be somekind of outrage.

Because cons designed for a minority compared to cons for the massive majority should totally be compared on equal terms.

Not trying to be a dick just trying to make the point that equality goes both ways.

If "x" group excludes "y" group and anybody who questions it is a dick

But "y" group excludes "x" group its because "y" group is full of dicks

With the only reasoning being that "y" group is bigger or has been around longer. Then that still not very equal.

Everybody should have the right to have their own thing just for them.

If the Gaymercon is excluding anything it's bigots, hateful assholes and possibly a significant portion of the Xbox Live crowd. I think that's better for everyone, no?

 

[JokerCrowe]

I read Susan's answer to this thread and it made me change my mind, at first I was also of the opinion of "Why would they want a convention of their own?" (not in a dickish way, actually I'm really naïve...)
But then I realized that I guess it would be nice to be in a place where you feel comfortable. ^.^
As long as they Allow straight people inside, I'm cool with it.
(Not saying that they should just make it a "Normal" convention, just saying that as long as they don't discriminate because of sexuality, I'm cool with it. They'll probably have security for throwing people out if some straight dicks got in..)

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

Aww, and here I was expecting more double or triple layered biting sarcasm a-la Brony-con.

I can see the appeal of a gaymer-con, but this affects me very little either way as a non-con goer.

 

[Alcaste]

As has been said in this thread a lot, there is a passive hostility with some of the community towards homosexuality, particularly on the younger end of the spectrum.

The only way this will ever get fixed is if we try and prevent the trivialization of certain words and epithets. Trying to stop that from happening, though, along with trying to circumscribe the words "Gamer" or "Nerd" to sheltered and socially awkward types, is just plainly impossible.

What's "gay", nowadays, if you go by my younger cousins' vocabulary, is anything that feels even remotely pointless. A "******" is anyone who's prone to relying on repetitive tactics in online games, or who's slow on the uptake. In the context of multiplayer games, being "gay" refers to being unskilled. I've tried to explain to one of my cousin's kids that this is fairly discriminatory, but he doesn't see it that way.

It warrants confusion, but some young 'uns think that there's being gay, and then there"s "being gay", fingerquotes included. One refers to the sexual orientation - with which they have no problems whatsoever - and the other refers to sticking to cheese tactics or being unskilled. Try and untangle that knot with someone who's absorbed that non-logic so completely that he fails to understand he might be understood as being offensive...

It's a big problem that's next to impossible to solve easily, that's for sure. It's so ingrained. That doesn't mean people have to put up with it - They can pick up their toys and go elsewhere until these people literally grow up.

I think the people who are like that are going to seriously be in the minority, I don't know how much it'll help.

And I kinda feel like an asshole for saying this, but Martin Luther King Jr. didn't gain so much momentum for the equal rights movement by being passive aggressive. I have no idea why, but I apologize for that last sentence.

That's not the best comparison, I don't think. Gay rights have come a VERY long way, I don't think we're at the point that Martin Luther King Jr. was at when he was leading the charge. This is something much more minor (relatively speaking), and just something we need to work on, rather than a huge human rights infraction.

 

[Daaaah Whoosh]

I guess all I can say about this is that I don't see how gays (is that politically correct?) can be assumed to have things in common with one another. It's like having a black gamer convention, you're assuming that they'll like each other just because they've been born a certain way. Like that problem people have when they only know two gay people, and they think that they'd be perfect for each other just because they're both gay.
I guess if the point is to keep all the assholes out (I could make a joke there, but I'm already being potentially offensive here), then I would agree with this. However, that's why Shaolin monks have their own temples, and why women have their own bathrooms. If we all learned to be nicer to each other, then we wouldn't have to have such segregation.

 

[Deathfish15]

For those not understanding the reasons behind this:


~~~Do you play multiplayer games?


If the answer is yes, then the answer to "why" this convention is put up is self evident. There is hate on a daily basis in Halo 4, WoW, Guild Wars 2, League of Legends, DotA 2, Call of Duty, and so many other games. Not only is there hate and spite towards homosexuals, there's also the issue with people throwing the slang terms around like it's their second language.


There are many times that I've asked people to "please don't use that term" when they calling enemies/allies 'f***ets' or when they die they say 'that's gay'. Most of the time it doesn't result in them stopping, instead it's more of "STFU you stupid ******" and going into worse. Sure, there's reporting them, but it only ever rarely works. People are either just ignorant or don't care. I've even had a guildmate kicked out by a leader because he refused to stop using such words in both chat and Teamspeak.



So, why a con? Because the CON is a place were a panel can be formed to discuss such discrimination in games (which is never a topic discussed at normal cons). It's also a place where people don't have to deal with that kind of slang and hate-terms just for the hell of it.

 

[JaceArveduin]

Huh, seems weird to me, though I guess it's cause my gay friend's ego is so big, it filters out all insults, and my bi friends ego is almost as big, but with a brash attitude to go with it.

So yeah, if it was nearby, I'd go just out of curiosity as to what all would happen at such a place. And hell, I may even find a ladyfriend who's bi and I wouldn't be such a lonely bastard, yey!

 

[AngloDoom]

Still don't see how this isn't a form of self-segregation. Honestly, part of me feels like I'm somehow being homophobic by not understand and I am racking my brains and desperately trying to think of how this isn't a form of segregation, but I can't think of it.

While a heterosexual individual wouldn't be denied entry to the event there would, I imagine, be more than a few people wondering why that person came. Some people might even think it ruins the event itself, like how several of my gay friends started getting irritated because the local gay bar was having more and more straight patrons. Putting a label at the door just makes people not of that label feel unwelcome. I wouldn't, for example, join my local Afro-Caribbean in my university because I feel like I'm not welcome.

Of course, this doesn't mean I'm against this event: if people feel too uncomfortable around heterosexual individuals to join an event then it's good that they have the option to surround themselves with more like-minded people, only I feel it comes by excluding people of a different mindset.

I very much doubt gays in gaming would have the same kind of reaction to gay bar patrons having straights pop up. Gaymers know that any support they get will be helpful in the long run, so having straights attend Gaymercon would be both supportive and awesome.

But what's the difference between the bar patrons and the 'gaymers'? Surely at least a few homosexual individuals go to both.

I'm not saying that a straight individual would get stoned and ostracised for attending Gaymerson, I'm just saying that they might not feel welcome if the event is clearly aimed at a different audience and some, not necessarily the majority, of people in the event may question why a heterosexual person is there.

While I understand that the 'booth-babes' and other such marketing at vanilla gaming cons certainly make it clear that it is aimed primarily at heterosexual males, I don't think the appropriate response is to create an event which just inverts the original problem.

Again, maybe I'm missing something, but Gamercon - in title alone - doesn't shout 'HOMOSEXUAL? NOT FOR YOU' while Gaymercon does shout 'HETEROSEXUAL? NOT FOR YOU', at least to me.

 

[zenoaugustus]

Maybe this is my ignorance speaking, but I hope that it would be moreso my idealism. Regardless, in an ideal world I feel like we wouldn't have to have a GaymerCon. In an ideal world, people could be comfortable with each other and able to chill and talk about their games at a convention without that kind of prejudice.

But I won't be so naive as to say that homophobia isn't existent in the gaming community (or any community really). And beyond that there are probably other reasons why one would want to attend a GaymerCon as opposed to a game convention. So while I wish they didn't need to exist, I am glad they do for the comfort and happiness of others.

 

[Alcaste]

If you would feel uncomfortable at a Gaymers con, then you now know why the Gaymers con exists.

 

[Verlander]

Do these not events not segregate part of the community though?

When the social interaction involves a potential expression of your sexuality, then it makes sense to maybe differentiate between preferences (for instance, nightclubs or bars), or when the media is directly and almost uniquely aimed at a market then yeah, I get the potential desire to cater to a specific crowd. With videogames, however, there is absolutely no requirement. Like many things in life, sexuality is not a limiting factor in gaming, and while I completely identify the disgusting bigotry that some of the LGBT community can face in the gaming community, this is not unique, or especially prominent in gaming conventions.

While "gay" conventions might be nice to some of the gay community (but by no means all of the gay community), they only serve to reaffirm the negative attitudes of the ignorant minority, rather than convince and alter their viewpoints. Isn't the gay pride chant "I'm here, I'm queer, get over it" rather than, "we're doing this now, please go away"?

 

[Twilight_guy]

I'd think rather then forming your own Con (with hookers and blackjack!) I would be more inclined to find the assholes who make you uncomfortable at other cons and kick their asses.

It just seems like an odd combination since the two have nothing to do with each other, like a convention for toy cars and washing machines. Or a stand that sells hotdogs and life insurance. I know why this exists, the same reason that game conventions exist at all, to collect a group of people with similar interest. It's the combination that baffles me.

Also, straw man and false analogy... but that's the joke...

 

[aeric90]

Hi. Gay guy here.

I LOVE going to PAX East. I have a great time there and wouldn't miss it for the world. I go with my friends who are also gay and I'm hoping one day I'll be able to drag my boyfriend out to it although I don't think he'll have as much fun as I do.

Do I have a great time? Absolutely. Do I feel 100% comfortable in that environment? No. Why? Because people harass, physically and psychologically assault and KILL gay people in the real world. I'm not saying it happens at cons, but it happens. Period. There are many other groups that experience the same thing. Living your life with that fact hanging over head sort of changes your perspective on a lot of things. The prospect of hanging out with 80000 people, a small number of which will come from the ignorant and bigoted pool that I hear and see using slurs of all kinds online, is one of those situations where you just can't shake that feeling. That feeling must be worse for someone who has experienced that kind of discrimination personally. I count myself lucky that due to my size and pass-times no one has ever messed with me in that way. The Gaymers convention is a place where we won't need to have that cloud follow us and we are more than happy to share that feeling with our friends and allies.

This issue isn't just gaming, it's just in general. Instead of asking why we need it, accept that we do and if it truly doesn't bother you then please help us end the need to have a separate 100% comfortable environment by being an ally. Call out any kind of discrimination or bigotry of any kind that you hear or experience. Once the voices come from everyone instead of just the minority of targets it will be impossible to for the industry to ignore. I guarantee that the preference of each and everyone of the organizers and attendees of the Gaymer convention dreams of a day when it won't be necessary.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Ddraig_Goch]

For those who don't quite get why there is a need for a convention catering to gay gamers, I would suggest reading Jim Sterling's article on Destructoid. It states the desire for such a convention far more eloquently than I ever could:

http://www.destructoid.com/the-importance-of-a-gay-gamer-convention-232467.phtml

 

[Piecewise]

I have to admit, I really don't get the whole "Gaymer" con thing. I mean, really, what the hell does your sexual orientation have to do with gaming? How would that even come up unless you choose to bring it up? I can understand wanting to have a Con for something where the subject matter is relevant, such as an RPG con or a Shooter con, but I'm not sure how sexuality can have enough of an effect to really matter for most games (With the possible exception of games like dead or alive). It seems like having a Black Gamer's con or asian gamer con; it just doesn't seem like these things have-or at least should have-any sort of real connection to gaming. I mean, my gender, race and sexual orientation have never really come up in a game, at least a good game.

 

[saleem]

Back? That's implying they were taken away. It also makes the implication that a gaymer con is turning away straight attendees... It is not.

--I think these are a good thing, but I can understand why some people wouldn't be able to see the need for them. Playing a lot of online games, I can see that in some cases it's absolutely drenched in homophobia, intentional or not. I imagine that when a word that is attributed to something that you care very deeply for is being used to describe something negative that would make you feel like shit.

Actually they are and its been going on for a while now - take the Rotary Club for example. Establishments for men and men alone are slowly but surely being being dismantled despite the fact that it is a needed tool for people to let off steam without offending the sensitivities of members of the opposite gender. Those that remain are labeled as misogynistic and chauvinistic. However there remains the fact that there are many establishments or events where men are excluded. You have Women only clubs like the InnerWheel the Womens version of Rotary (no men allowed), women only gyms and women only sports events (with no events for men). I understand not having men and women compete in the same event for physical, safety or even fair play issues. But to have a meet that completely excludes men and doesnt even provide events for them to partake in is in my mind wrong considering if the invesr was true it would be decried and condemned.

Why is it ok to have exclusivity for one but not for the other.

I have no problem with exclusivity - its a great way for communities to get together without having to worry about harassment from an unwanted party. The problem I have is when it is ok for certain segments of to have exclusivity but not for others. Its just the other side of bigotry.

Seriously I understand that the homosexual community wants an environment where they dont have to put up with every other snot nosed kid calling anything they dont care for as "gay", more power to them. However if on the flip side there was a con called Hetero/Malecon there would be hell to pay. Its inconsistent and that is my problem with it.

 

[McMarbles]

*Comic asking people not to be "that guy"*

*five pages of people being "that guy"*

I love this board.