On Gaymers and Cons

[Brian Hendershot]

The whole reverse segregation argument rings hollow to me. On their webpage they specifically state: "Gaymer X is open to all, whether you?re bisexual, transgender, gay, asexual or an ally (Read: Non-homophobic person who doesn't fit into one of the above categories) and we hope to make an experience that will be meaningful as well as educational and fascinating."

[Source: http://gaymerconnect.com/info/about]

It's not like they are trying to purposely exclude people. Instead, they are trying to create a comfortable, safe environment that may not be readily available to everyone. As long as they don't try to harm or exclude people on the basis on their gender, I don't see what the problem is with trying to attract a certain demographic of gamers, nerds and so forth.

 

[The Funslinger]

Bloody hell, why are so many people getting so bent out of shape and missing the point of this comic?

The only point is it saying the question 'Why do X need their own Y' is dumb in a lot of contexts, including this one. It's just less obvious here because of there being misconstrued homophobia in the world.

In a less inflammatory context:

Bearing in mind gay singles, couples, dogging groups, whatever the hell can drink at any bar they choose, do you know why there are gay bars? Okay. You have now answered the question 'why is there a gay gamer convention?'

 

[deadagain33]

Why stop at making a gaming-centered event for gay people? What about a black-gay-dog owners convention where you have to wear white T-shirts?

Hell, I'm comfortable with my sexuality and yet I hate "gay pride". By creating a subculture, gays actually alienate themselves so its more noticeable. It distinguishes them as something different instead of being cool about it. Sexuality shouldn't have much to do with your personality yet alone who you appreciate games with. Its ridiculous! These events that "pander to minorities" are absurd and detrimental to their cause. I'm for equal rights and individualism. But it gets a bit silly making members only groups for such petty unrelated things. The picture linked was irrelevant and lame. The scenarios were completely different. "We need suitable place of worship for my religion." "We need appropriate toilets to suit our genders" "We need a gaming convention to go to being gamers. Also I need to be with gays like me also, so we need to ban heterosexual and perhaps even asexual's (a greater minority) from this gathering"
I think gays having their own toilets seem more logical than this?

 

[Darken12]

Why stop at making a gaming-centered event for gay people? What about a black-gay-dog owners convention where you have to wear white T-shirts?

Hell, I'm comfortable with my sexuality and yet I hate "gay pride". By creating a subculture, gays actually alienate themselves so its more noticeable. It distinguishes them as something different instead of being cool about it. Sexuality shouldn't have much to do with your personality yet alone who you appreciate games with. Its ridiculous! These events that "pander to minorities" are absurd and detrimental to their cause. I'm for equal rights and individualism. But it gets a bit silly making members only groups for such petty unrelated things. The picture linked was irrelevant and lame. The scenarios were completely different. "We need suitable place of worship for my religion." "We need appropriate toilets to suit our genders" "We need a gaming convention to go to being gamers. Also I need to be with gays like me also, so we need to ban heterosexual and perhaps even asexual's (a greater minority) from this gathering"
I think gays having their own toilets seem more logical than this?

Hilarious.

I will link you to a previous post on this thread about straight privilege [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=8#16242266]. And to another one on why we don't want to hear straight people telling us what's best for us [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=12#16246133] (it's under the second quote).

I don't really have to indulge your argument on whether this is a good thing or not, but let me put it this way: in this post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=7#16241470], I posit that the gaming industry sees straight white males as the only demographic worth considering. To the gaming industry, the LGBT crowd is invisible. When we go to regular cons (or stay at home because regular cons are unappealing/uncomfortable), we are tacitly reinforcing the image that we do not exist. One good thing that might come out of this con is the industry taking notice of how many of us there are, and how viable a market we are. A girl gamer con might have the same results for women, and so on.

But this indulgence aside, it's frankly none of your business. As I state before in the post I link above, straight people who are concerned about equality should start listening to us instead of telling us what to do.

 

[CJ1145]

This thread is a wonderful example of how the internet on a baseline level does not understand its own insensitivity and bigotry.

The point made in the comic is that sometimes it's nice to be in a place where you know you belong. You know people there are like you, and won't judge you for who you are.

A gay gamer's convention serves a double purpose.

It allows gay people (who in this case are also gamers) to get together in a single place and celebrate one of their favorite pastimes. And at the same time, they can connect with people and feel secure, because they're in a place where they know they can be completely open about themselves, with no one casting shifty glances in their direction, or saying unkind things behind their back or to their face. It's just an extension of the purpose of conventions in general. People with common interests getting a chance to spend some time with like-mined people in a fun environment.

 

[aba1]

Ok, everyone, important question time:

Is this Con banning non-gay people from attending? (Answer: NO)


If the gay culture is not your thing, then give the convention a pass. All these complaints almost feel like people are afraid that having too many conventions will somehow deplete the non-renewable convention resource! (Hint: it won't, you can have a theoretical infinite number of conventions with infinite themes, given enough geek critical mass)

Discussing whether there is a need for this convention or not is exactly the same thing detractors of videogames or comics argue regarding those conventions. Just because you don't get it, it doesn't mean it's worthless.

I think it is less a issue of to many conventions and more a question of whether intentional segregation is really a good idea. To be honest I think the idea of having "Gay culture" is a terrible idea cause it implies that you are different and should be treated differently. To me if you are gay all it means is your interested in the same sex sexually and that is it nothing more nothing less. Gay culture strikes me as sorta stupid mostly just because basing your entire culture around your sexuality is very shallow if not incredibly boring. Your sexuality is only a tiny part of what defines anyone as a individual.

I mean to have separate events or places for people when it comes to sex and dating etc makes a good deal of sense but that isn't what a gaming con is. Either way though what ever makes people happy if your in a area where people are extremely bigoted I would imagine getting away would be much higher on the list of desires and I speak mostly out of what I am used to here. Around here nobody really cares about this, The whole issue sorta stopped being a thing with the majority of the population here almost a decade ago.

 

[Darken12]

I think it is less a issue of to many conventions and more a question of whether intentional segregation is really a good idea. To be honest I think the idea of having "Gay culture" is a terrible idea cause it implies that you are different and should be treated differently. To me if you are gay all it means is your interested in the same sex sexually and that is it nothing more nothing less. Gay culture strikes me as sorta stupid mostly just because basing your entire culture around your sexuality is very shallow if not incredibly boring. Your sexuality is only a tiny part of what defines anyone as a individual.

I mean to have separate events or places for people when it comes to sex and dating etc makes a good deal of sense but that isn't what a gaming con is. Either way though what ever makes people happy if your in a area where people are extremely bigoted I would imagine getting away would be much higher on the list of desires and I speak mostly out of what I am used to here. Around here nobody really cares about this, The whole issue sorta stopped being a thing with the majority of the population here almost a decade ago.

2 and 3 posts above you, me and Spot1990 tackled this. In the interest of seeing how long can I make a self-linkception, I will link you to both posts. Or you can scroll up, your choice.

Spot1990 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=13#16246618]. Me [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=13#16246538].

 

[aba1]

I think it is less a issue of to many conventions and more a question of whether intentional segregation is really a good idea. To be honest I think the idea of having "Gay culture" is a terrible idea cause it implies that you are different and should be treated differently. To me if you are gay all it means is your interested in the same sex sexually and that is it nothing more nothing less. Gay culture strikes me as sorta stupid mostly just because basing your entire culture around your sexuality is very shallow if not incredibly boring. Your sexuality is only a tiny part of what defines anyone as a individual.

I mean to have separate events or places for people when it comes to sex and dating etc makes a good deal of sense but that isn't what a gaming con is. Either way though what ever makes people happy if your in a area where people are extremely bigoted I would imagine getting away would be much higher on the list of desires and I speak mostly out of what I am used to here. Around here nobody really cares about this, The whole issue sorta stopped being a thing with the majority of the population here almost a decade ago.

2 and 3 posts above you, me and Spot1990 tackled this. In the interest of seeing how long can I make a self-linkception, I will link you to both posts. Or you can scroll up, your choice.

Spot1990 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=13#16246618]. Me [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.397621-On-Gaymers-and-Cons?page=13#16246538].

I was looking at spots post there and some very valid points for sure which I think are mostly only as valid as the place the convention is being held at so still very valid. Like I said before if your in a area where there are a lot of bigots this convention makes a lot more sense but I don't know where it is and if it is in a area like where I live it seems like it would be more pointless and cause more harm than good. At the end of the day I don't really care, my only concern if for the future and that rather than nobody caring people will instead just separate themselves into groups I could be right I could be wrong all we can do is wait and see. You do see this nature when it comes to skin colour and even between men and women often and both sets of groups had very similar movements. Ahhh I might be just over thinking these things at the end of the day all I care about is that everyone gets along and is happy so what ev's.

 

[Darken12]

I was looking at spots post there and some very valid points for sure which I think are mostly only as valid as the place the convention is being held at so still very valid. Like I said before if your in a area where there are a lot of bigots this convention makes a lot more sense but I don't know where it is and if it is in a area like where I live it seems like it would be more pointless and cause more harm than good. At the end of the day I don't really care, my only concern if for the future and that rather than nobody caring people will instead just separate themselves into groups I could be right I could be wrong all we can do is wait and see. You do see this nature when it comes to skin colour and even between men and women often and both sets of groups had very similar movements. Ahhh I might be just over thinking these things at the end of the day all I care about is that everyone gets along and is happy so what ev's.

The thing is (and I will never tire of saying it over and over again): it's none of your business. Allow me to set up an algorithm for straight people:

Is it an LGBT issue? If not ==> Use another algorithm.
If yes ==> Are you LGBT? If yes ==> You can say whatever you want.
If not ==> Is this going to meaningfully and directly affect you in any way? If yes ==> You can say your piece.
If not ==> Do you have something nice, positive and/or supportive to say about it? If yes ==> Speak away.
If not ==> Shut. Up.

Captcha: fall guy. I don't know Captcha, I always saw myself as a winter guy.

 

[Blind Sight]

How is this a goddamn issue? It's a voluntary association that is not actively discriminating against people the event isn't tailored towards. Also from what I can gather the event will have gaming panels discussing topics that aren't likely to appear at normal conventions and are of particular interest to sexual minorities: http://gaymerconnect.com/panels

Another medium, film, has been doing this for freaking decades (Gay/Lesbian film festivals). Has that resulted in some kind of segregation within the film industry/culture? Of course not. I'm getting sick of this collectivist crap about 'gaming culture', as if people have some kind of cultural obligation to fulfill certain standards in order to take part.

That being said, Mr. Carter carries a certain ego-driven smugness as he preaches on his soapbox about these numerous social issues.

 

[aba1]

I was looking at spots post there and some very valid points for sure which I think are mostly only as valid as the place the convention is being held at so still very valid. Like I said before if your in a area where there are a lot of bigots this convention makes a lot more sense but I don't know where it is and if it is in a area like where I live it seems like it would be more pointless and cause more harm than good. At the end of the day I don't really care, my only concern if for the future and that rather than nobody caring people will instead just separate themselves into groups I could be right I could be wrong all we can do is wait and see. You do see this nature when it comes to skin colour and even between men and women often and both sets of groups had very similar movements. Ahhh I might be just over thinking these things at the end of the day all I care about is that everyone gets along and is happy so what ev's.

The thing is (and I will never tire of saying it over and over again): it's none of your business. Allow me to set up an algorithm for straight people:

Is it an LGBT issue? If not ==> Use another algorithm.
If yes ==> Are you LGBT? If yes ==> You can say whatever you want.
If not ==> Is this going to meaningfully and directly affect you in any way? If yes ==> You can say your piece.
If not ==> Do you have something nice, positive and/or supportive to say about it? If yes ==> Speak away.
If not ==> Shut. Up.

Captcha: fall guy. I don't know Captcha, I always saw myself as a winter guy.

Well that was immature... You don't even know anything about my sexuality but you assume I am straight then you proceed to tell me it is none of my business which I would agree with you if it wasn't a full on movement with a very in your face attitude and even all that aside it could effect any number of people directly tied to me including my friends family even my own children even if I was straight. So ya I feel it is my business after all if this is going to be a public thing than it effects everyone directly or indirectly. It very much so matters to me how people in my community and society and culture treat each other, I don't think anyone should be subject to pressure or obligation to be in any group or feel like they are predefined to act or be any way they do not necessarily want to be.

Now as I said before I don't care if you disagree with me people are entitled to their opinions all I ask is you be open to my ideas as much as I am open to yours. If you aren't willing to consider anyone else's opinions there is no point is discussing things with you. Me personally I refuse to let myself simply be told what is right or wrong I want to discuss and consider possibilities good or bad rather than remain ignorant.

 

[Zen Toombs]

Feminism has a great concept called "the kyriarchy" (from the Greek word kyrios, meaning Lord or Master), which is a way to analyse our current society as a system of interlocking oppression. In it, one integrates racism, sexism, homophobia, classism and all the other -isms and -phobias as a network-like pyramid of oppression. What you're saying amounts to "the kyriarchy is okay because most of us are oppressed one way or another". And that's just tragic, really, because it's the best way to keep us all feeling feeling awful and keeping our society from improving.

Just because most of us are victims of the kyriarchy in one way or another doesn't mean that we should put each other down. It means we should help each other instead.

Helping each other is overrated. We should all just go about our business, Mad Max style!

I don't mean to preach to the choir, but that's really well said. Keep on being awesome, Darken!

PS: Oh LORD has this thread continued to explode.

 

[Darken12]

90% of the gay men I know are in better shape than the straight men I know, and are potentially even more likely to fight physically against a gay basher.

Usually hate crimes are committed in groups. Very rarely assailants act alone. They also often have weapons. A gay basher doesn't want a fair fight. They want to inflict a one-sided beat down.

I dislike obnoxiously, unnecessarily flamboyant homosexuals as much as I hate obnoxiously aggressive, chauvinistic bros. Not for the nouns, but for the adjectives that describe them. You dig?

The problem is that you're not saying "flamboyant people", you're specifically saying "flamboyant gay people".

Haha what kind of horrible world do you live in? This never* happens. As a matter of fact, like women, I would argue that homosexuals are more likely to win an assault case because they are generally viewed as victims.

It's not like homosexual assault is even REMOTELY common anymore either, but please keep pretending it is so everyone will feel bad for homosexuals. Yeah, it fucking happens, but the lowlives who assault homosexuals for being gay are more of a symptom of poverty than a symptom of prejudice.

I'm not from the US, but a quick google search brings this up: http://www.examiner.com/article/mayor-police-chief-make-promises-to-portland-s-gay-community

Portland has plenty of cases of the police looking away. I'm sure if you took more than the 14 seconds I spent on that google search, you'd find an equivalent for most states in the US.

You can claim gay panic just like you can claim temporary insanity. It NEVER* works.

It works [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense]. Repeatedly. Do a google search and investigate further.

THE FIGHT IS OVER.

STOP FIGHTING.

YOU'RE MAKING IT WORSE.

This is exactly the problem. It's not your fight, and yet you want it to end because it inconveniences you or you disapprove of it. Let me put it in the most polite way I can: Let the LGBT people decide when the fight is over. That's the reason people get so bristly: because we already have straight people in the government making decisions that affect our lives, the entertainment industry is aimed at straight people (where LGBT people are either erased or stereotyped), and we have to deal with casual, subtle or overt homophobia in our daily lives, and on top of that, we have to be quiet because we're bothering the straight people. And we are supposed to accept the wisdom of the straights when it comes to equality. They have to tell us when we've reached equality, when the fight is over and when we're being too much 'in your face' about ourselves. Guess we're just too gosh-darned stupid to think and decide for ourselves on matters that pertain our community. Gosh darn it. Why did we choose to be LGBT?

"Is it an LGBT issue?"

Not really... it's more of a segregation within the gaming community issue, but it has relevance to gays and trannys so let's continue.

Oh gee. I wonder how my dumb, LGBT eyes missed the obvious fact that wanting an LGBT-focused con was not an LGBT issue. Gosh-darn my feeble LGBT brain.

"Are you LGBT, if yes, you can say whatever you want."

Um... I know this seems to be how the LGBT works, but no... you cant. As a matter of fact, I believe the LGBT community says some really stupid things that hurt the gay community and make me dislike the group.

I like animals, but PETA is a bunch of stupid assholes who want there to be a problem so they have something to fight. So they create rallys and protests hoping to GOD someone will come by and argue with them so they can feel like they achieved something.

Sound familiar?

No. It does not. Because PETA is not made up of animals. They are not a group whose interests are focused on themselves, so the comparison cannot apply. The LGBT community's main focus is issues that concern itself. That's why I keep telling straight people that it's none of their business, because they are not part of the group nor of the group's interests.

"Is this going to meaningfully and directly affect you in any way?"
"Do you have something nice, positive and/or supportive to say about it?"

This is a forum. A forum is a place to convey your opinions and discuss things. It's not a place to jerk each other off and say how right everyone else is.

I disagree with you. Get the fuck over it, I'm allowed to.

That's fine, just don't expect your opinion to be taken seriously or heard when you're not making the effort to be respectful. All the LGBT people and straight allies in this thread have been patiently explaining things to straight people so that we can all better understand each other. But there comes a point where if someone doesn't want to listen to you and all they want to do is rant about the evils of the homosexuals, you need to tune them out and stop giving them respect and consideration they haven't given to you.

Well that was immature... You don't even know anything about my sexuality but you assume I am straight then you proceed to tell me it is none of my business which I would agree with you if it wasn't a full on movement with a very in your face attitude and even all that aside it could effect any number of people directly tied to me including my friends family even my own children even if I was straight. So ya I feel it is my business after all if this is going to be a public thing than it effects everyone directly or indirectly. It very much so matters to me how people in my community and society and culture treat each other, I don't think anyone should be subject to pressure or obligation to be in any group or feel like they are predefined to act or be any way they do not necessarily want to be.

Now as I said before I don't care if you disagree with me people are entitled to their opinions all I ask is you be open to my ideas as much as I am open to yours. If you aren't willing to consider anyone else's opinions there is no point is discussing things with you. Me personally I refuse to let myself simply be told what is right or wrong I want to discuss and consider possibilities good or bad rather than remain ignorant.

Well, I'm sorry if I mistook you for straight, but it's the truth. It might be a movement that draws many people, but it doesn't affect straight people at all. It's our business, not theirs. If they want to come, the con is open for them, nobody's going to discriminate. The thing is, we need to draw the line around our safe spaces and discussions. We need to stop the avalanche of entitled straight people and say "sorry, but your opinion on this particular subject doesn't matter" because it's the truth. We've been playing nice from the start, letting straight people decide practically every aspect in our lives, and we've had to fight tooth and nail for every accomplishment. And if straight people can't understand (can't even be bothered to try to understand) then that's too bad for them. They need to start accepting the fact that there will be spaces where they will not be welcome or heard.

As a feminist ally and a staunch supporter of people of colour, I understand that there are spaces where I am not welcome because of my gender and/or race. And I respect that, because I understand the need for those spaces. This is not a bad thing. A lot of times, one of the best things I can do for women as a feminist ally is to let them decide things for themselves without inserting my male opinion on the subject, even when it's something that might theoretically affect me or concern me. Again, it's a matter or respect.

Feminism has a great concept called "the kyriarchy" (from the Greek word kyrios, meaning Lord or Master), which is a way to analyse our current society as a system of interlocking oppression. In it, one integrates racism, sexism, homophobia, classism and all the other -isms and -phobias as a network-like pyramid of oppression. What you're saying amounts to "the kyriarchy is okay because most of us are oppressed one way or another". And that's just tragic, really, because it's the best way to keep us all feeling feeling awful and keeping our society from improving.

Just because most of us are victims of the kyriarchy in one way or another doesn't mean that we should put each other down. It means we should help each other instead.

Helping each other is overrated. We should all just go about our business, Mad Max style!

I don't mean to preach to the choir, but that's really well said. Keep on being awesome, Darken!

PS: Oh LORD has this thread continued to explode.

Thank you, thank you, I am all flustered. But I'm glad I see a surprising number of people who actually get it, too. I frankly expected the gamer culture to be far worse. I'm glad to see people chiming in with support as well. It's uplifting.

It has exploded in ways you cannot even imagine.

 

[Darken12]

Having huge conventions with big signs everywhere that say THIS IS A CONVENTION FOR GAYS is a big step backwards in normalizing sexuality choices.

I don't know how else to say it: it's not up to you to decide. If you care so much about equality and the future, listen to what this bedevilled LGBT crowd is saying instead of spewing ignorance from your mouth. If you don't care about equality, then stop talking about whether the actions of the bedevilled LGBT community are affecting equality positively or negatively.

It's that simple.

 

[Orekoya]

What's juvenile is that STILL it has to be explained that this is not segregation because people are still screaming that it is with no reason. Over and over again, as it has been done over the past ten pages.

Segregation n. - The action or state of setting someone or something apart from other people or things or being set apart. (Merriam-Webster)

Thank you for quoting the dictionary since it saves me from doing so. Nobody is being barred entry and no effort is being made to set people apart. Therefore this is not segregation. As my quote states. Thank you again for supporting my point.

I didn't scream anything, but I understand how ignorance can make people scream sometimes.

THAT TIME IS OVER

IT'S GENERALLY ACCEPTED THAT YOU SHOULDN'T CARE WHAT GENDER OR SEXUALITY SOMEONE IS.

A FUCKING HUUUGE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DO NOT SEGREGATE BASED ON SEXUALITY OR AT THE VERY LEAST BELIEVE IT IS WRONG TO DO SO.

THE FIGHT IS OVER.

STOP FIGHTING.

YOU'RE MAKING IT WORSE.

Yes, I can see that.

 

[Jessta]

it sort of feels like a gaymer con is a weird thing to have since gamers and gays are already sort of two different sub cultures. Like they are already welcome to come to regular conventions and be gay, do they have something special that happens at gay only conventions? Like is there a genre of specifically homosexual games that sort of overflow with gayness and non gay's can't enjoy? I guess what I'm saying here is I don't really see the connection between sexuality and games so I don't really understand the need for a gay only game convention.

Not to mention there's the whole point that this is a form of discriminating against people based on sexuality, if they 'gay' society can say no one straight can come to their party why is it the 'straight' society can't do the same? It's sort of a whole can of worms that doesn't really need to... be there?

 

[Shikua]

it sort of feels like a gaymer con is a weird thing to have since gamers and gays are already sort of two different sub cultures. Like they are already welcome to come to regular conventions and be gay, do they have something special that happens at gay only conventions? Like is there a genre of specifically homosexual games that sort of overflow with gayness and non gay's can't enjoy? I guess what I'm saying here is I don't really see the connection between sexuality and games so I don't really understand the need for a gay only game convention.

Not to mention there's the whole point that this is a form of discriminating against people based on sexuality, if they 'gay' society can say no one straight can come to their party why is it the 'straight' society can't do the same? It's sort of a whole can of worms that doesn't really need to... be there?

First off, it's not gay-exclusive, it's gay focused. Meaning straight people can come, no problems, but they aren't the target demographic.

The reason people want it is multifaceted. It has to do with how gay people are treated within the gaming culture. Gaming conventions are heterocentric, and gamer culture is full of anti-gay sentiment, both intended and unintended. A gay focused convention just helps provide a place gay gamers can feel more comfortable, and feel less likely to suffer from discrimination, both active and passive.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Simple exercise for straight people who don't understand the appeal of Gaymercon: go there. Take note of how you feel in an environment specifically geared toward people whose sexuality is different from your own. You may notice you feel a bit uncomfortable because you're in the minority, even though (hopefully) nobody's being overtly or intentionally hostile to you. That's how gay people feel at "normal" cons. Is it any wonder they want a place where they can hang out with fellow gamers without that niggling discomfort prodding at the back of their mind?

Are you gay and forever uncomfortable? How much does a gay game convention differ from the more established conventions? And in what ways?

I obviously can't provide evidence for this, but as long as the convention is still focused on games, and not gay fan art and fan fiction(which I know it's not) then I think I would be plenty comfortable. At least as comfortable as someone who generally doesn't like crowds can be.

I've said before that I'm not bothered by any of this. I'm genuinly curious about how different it would be.

Against my better judgement I'm going to jump in and second this post. I've had gay friends in the past, and gay roommates as well. I was constantly in an environment where people's sexuality was different from my own. It didn't make me feel uncomfortable. The reason why I never felt uncomfortable is because the environments I was always in were never explicitly aimed at a sexuality. Now I've never been to one, but from what I understand a gaming convention isn't exactly a place where a sexuality of any kind is a driving force behind the meet-up or the content there. It's a convention about gaming...

If the gay, lesbian, and bisexual community want to have their own convention, then fine, but to me it seems like interjecting a specific sexual orientation into a convention about something completely unrelated muddles up the point of the convention in the first place, gay or straight. If you care about games, and you want to go to a gaming convention, why does the majority of the people's sexuality matter?

That's why I think this entire comic is sort of a nonissue. I'd also like to say that I've only seen a couple of these comics, but if these guys never get off their soapbox, then I won't be looking into any more of them. The smug tone of it all just turns me off.

Thanks.

I also agree about the smug/know-it-all tone that alot of this stuff has, it's bothersome to me. I don't need, or want to be told how it is and how I should feel about it. I stopped watching Bob when broke out his soapbox and all.

Are you gay and forever uncomfortable? How much does a gay game convention differ from the more established conventions? And in what ways?

I obviously can't provide evidence for this, but as long as the convention is still focused on games, and not gay fan art and fan fiction(which I know it's not) then I think I would be plenty comfortable. At least as comfortable as someone who generally doesn't like crowds can be.

I've said before that I'm not bothered by any of this. I'm genuinly curious about how different it would be.

I'm not actually gay, but I was basing my comment on things my gay friends and sibling have told me. I do, however, have some similar experience; I'm no stranger to being the only atheist in a room full of Christians, for example, and it can get stressful at times, especially since I have to watch what I say because I'm not "out" to all my Christian friends. As to what would be different at a gay con, I don't know exactly, but I still say the best way to find out is to go to one and see for yourself.

Alrighty.

Are all of these people young? It doesn't make much sense to me unless these people are all young, and that-that would be the source of them not being sure of themselves.

 

[mechalynx]

You know what? I just came home from a string of awesome parties, and am not exactly sober. So instead of making an ass out of myself on facebook where all my friends can see and laugh at me, I thought I'd go to a random forum and unleash my drunken stupid there, on a topic that can really rile me up.

And Escapist delivered in spades.

I am not gay (that I am aware of). I cannot ever claim to understand the plight that gays had and still have to bear. However, I do not feel that there is any particular need for a Gaymer Con. Until this day I believed that gaming was for everyone. As far as I'm concerned everyone is fucking welcome.

A Gaymer Con rubs me the wrong way for the same reason as the Pride parade in Stockholm did two years ago. Two years ago it wa sdecided that there would be no admission fee and everyone was welcome. Suddenly there were all these people complaining that the pride parade was watered down now that all these hetero plebs were allowed to mingle for free. That was the reason that my friend and her girlfriend chose not to attend.

Or maybe it's all about a Con that celebates gay themes in the game industry that is more forward in its emotional evolution than the rest of the world (wishfulthinkingwishfulthinking). In that case, rock on, as long as my hetero ass is welcome.

Dunno, I've had way too may drinks to be rational about this. My point is, don't shut people out.

 

[Darken12]

That article proves that crimes do happen.

What an amazing insight!

Haha what kind of horrible world do you live in? This never* happens.

You make it too easy.

Hey, thanks... not only does your link directly state that it almost never works, but I also found this [http://books.google.com/books?id=pPkRHairg3UC&pg=PA247&lpg=PA247&dq=gay+panic+defense+no+longer+admissible&source=bl&ots=2a2WesrZ38&sig=giQE8vTplI7KcImO3lNR_fvEXD0&hl=en&ei=HlWyTtjsNJObtwfZ4bDkAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false] article from Harvard with a nice amount of statistics to prove me right!

I can link too:

http://www.stonewall.org.uk/at_home/hate_crime_domestic_violence_and_criminal_law/2645.asp

http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/2012/07/03/gay-panic-to-stay/80192

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-rowe/man-acquitted-of-murder-a_b_231748.html

http://www.vcstar.com/news/2011/jul/23/gilliam-attorneys-regrettably-revive-the-gay/

See that trigger at the end?

That last insane thing you said implying that I said you chose to be gay and that gay people are stupid... which, you know... I didn't...

That proves almost every. single. thing. I'm saying.

You WANT me to be anti-gay so you can rise above like a god-damn phoenix of altruism and love. Pathetic.

You said it yourself. I want the fight to be over, and you want it to keep going.

Think about that.

Yes. I will think hard about how you come here, spewing ignorant crap (that you genuinely believe to be true, admittedly), you don't stop to listen when people tell you maybe you don't got the whole story, you keep on bellowing your ever-increasingly extremist views when we keep trying to show you what we're dealing with (while completely blind to the fact that you, who never had to experience any of this, come and tell us that we're just overreacting), and you get angry that I'm just skipping to the inevitable homophobic remarks people like you tend to bandy about. Sorry, I should have let you escalate properly. What was I thinking.

You're the disrespectful asshole here.

You just accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a bigot.

Yes, I'm the one who came here spewing ignorance, refused to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about, and continued to attack them. I'm the disrespectful one here.

Wtf are you talking about?

I'm not being ignorant at all, what I said is 100 percent true.

Try actually bringing up, you know, some logic to prove me wrong or something.

I brought up logic. Repeatedly. You're just ignoring it.

When I tell you that "This event does not affect you, and you're not part of the group that is concerned with it, therefore your opinion is irrelevant", that's basic logic. When I say "It's offensive to tell a minority to which you don't belong that their fight is over, or trying to educate them in issues of equality when you haven't experienced the inequality that they have experienced (which is also basic logic, since 'you don't know what it's like to be discriminated for being part of Group A because you're not part of Group A' is a tautology)", that's also basic logic.

You're just not listening.

The only thing that bothers me more than soapbox preachers is segregation.

So we have to take all the homophobic crap we face every day and you can't deal with the fact that some people might want to have their own thing where they don't have to take all that crap. Sure, that's fair.