Poll: Metroid: Other M killed Samus
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I watched the G4 review of other M and well, Morgan Webb got way to emotional about it. Seriously half the review is her complaining about a boring character trying to be made interesting and then she goes off on a thing about the health system. It's a video game, the health system never makes sense. What should Samus have to walk over food or a health pack to instantly grab and use it? Or should she have to take cover for a few seconds to regain health?
The day G4 goes back and changes the reviews of games such as Mass Effect 2 to lower their score for their health system I will then not believe Morgan Webb just wanted something else to hate about it.
The day G4 goes back and changes the reviews of games such as Mass Effect 2 to lower their score for their health system I will then not believe Morgan Webb just wanted something else to hate about it.
Alright, so we start with the fight with Mother Brain and the loss of baby. It's a sad moment to relive, I know, but we'll live on... somehow. After the battle with Mother Brain we find out that Samus was having a flashback to that moment in her life, obviously traumatized by the event. Now, I need to pull a quote here because I need to stress this: "And the explosion that follow destroyed planet Zebes, along with the remains of Mother Brain, the Space Pirates, and my long-standing nemesis, Ridley." This clearly states that all the Space Pirates are now dead, including Ridley, as well as Mother Brain, because of the explosion of Planet Zebes. Samus then has a little bit of training in the test room, to which the scientist comments on how powerful she's become. There's some lementing over the lost Metroid baby, as she realises her great deed of redemption in trying to save it in her second visit, as well as her misplaced attachment to motherhood were quashed by Mother Brain.
Time passes and Samus finds a Baby's Cry signal coming from a space station. She alters course, noting how amusing the anaolgy is given that her last large mission had involved a more literal sense of the term. Speeding off to the rescue, she also notes that she has no hesitation to help those in need when the signal pops up, as if she had originally planned on being there. Upon arrival, she notices that the Galactic Federation already has a hand in the situation from a transport ship being docked in the same bay as her own starship. We then quickly find out that two of Samus's former associates, Anthony and Adam, are both aboard the space station, investigating the distress call.
Some important facts to note here are that Adam seems very callous and defensive by Samus's sudden presence, while Anthony seems very upbeat and happy to see a long lost friend. It denotes, as well a Samus hinting towards it, that she left on poor terms with her former superior officer. With some not so sly prompting from Anthony, Samus blows open the door they had been trying to breach and they continue to a small room. A dead body reveals that the entire space station is most likely void of any life signs and also reveals a small, purple bug, which is hurridly disposed of by one of the marines. Just before Samus can offer her services to assist the marines, they're all swarmed by a massive infestation of these purple bugs and are forced to fight. Freeze guns are authorized by Adam.
Adam quickly takes charge of the situation by commanding both his squad and Samus in a joint effort to destroy the bug monster. Samus follows orders as if she had been born to and the group disposes of the monster fairly efficiently. Adam then "asks" for Samus's co-operation, also saying that she will have to be under his command if she wishes to help. This triggers a flashback, going back to one of her old mission briefings. The soliloquy explains, in detail, ow her squad treated her and that Adam was a man of very precise vocabulary, never using words that he didn't mean. It also goes into explaining the "twofold responce" of her thumbs-down to Adam after his traditional "Any objections, Lady?" questioning. It also breaths life into the relationships with her commanding officer as an endearing one, the relationship with her squadmates as a competative one and her relationship with her past as one of resentment at her childish behaviour before passage into adulthood. At the end of the flashback, we can also see some regret of going out on her own the face the horrors of space alone and that her reflection on this is probably due to all of the time she spent void of human contact, saying she was so "young and naive" in her responce to how she feels about leaving the only person that understood her, with "chances being slim that I would ever find anyone who understood me like Adam."
Back in the present, Adam is going over the mission briefing and getting Samus and his squad up to speed with their current situation. We get a quick summary of the situation at hand, as well as the specializations of each soldier on the squad when they recieve their assignments. Samus is tasked with restoring power to the facility and is given a strict order that only her bombs have been authorized for use (hinting at some higher power that puppets Adma, most likely the Galactic Federation) but that all of her other weapons have been restricted until the situation can be further assesed. Pure speculation here, but this speaks volumes on how much of a threat Samus poses if most of her equipment would be sanctioned as outlawed or unusable on basic mission within the Galactic Federation. In any case, Adam gives a nice little explination of how Power Bombs are much like mini-nukes. The really important part, however, is the end of the briefing, where Samus feel both a sense of surrealness and happiness from getting orders from her former commanding officer, noting that this is the first joint operation since becoming a bounty hunter, reinforcing that "lonely" feeling within the character. After her orders are given Samus responds with an affirmative but chooses to respond in the more adult manner of "Understood, Adam. No objections, of course." instead of her thumbs-down, showing obvious growth as a person from last they met.
After restoring power to the facility, Samus is ordered to explore Sector 1 while Lyle, one of the marines, is reassigned to investigate a particular facility of interest within the same Sector. As she explores her new mission area, Samus stumbles upon a researcher's corpse, noting that whatever killed him was not the same as the creature that killed the first researcher they found in the infested room. She also notes something of a "Dark Presence" in the room. Upon further inspection of the surrounding area reveals a small, fuzzy creature that is attempting to get a pice of fruit. However, this moment is interuppted by Adam in which he presses Samus to continue. As she does, she's stopped by the lingering presence of the creature, now staring her down maliciously before she continues on ahead as ordered.
A little further on, Samus encounters a hive of bug-like creatures. After a prolonged battle, Samus expertly dispatches of the hive, as well as the queen and soldiers inside with the epxertise we have come to expect. After the battle, Samus examines the creature she had seen ebfore feasting upon and empty honeycomb from the destroyed hive. Unlike its calm fecade before, it now is a ravenous beast that insasibly feeds upon the sweet necter inside the comb. The bounty hunter regards this with curiosity, as well as a little fear, but quickly dismisses the creature as her new objective is given. Without hesitation, Samus is off again to her next area. Upon arrival she is greated by the other squad members. Maurice starts working on getting information extracted for a large CPU, while the other squad members head off to search for other clues as to what might have happened.
While the crew is inspecting the surrounding area, Samus stumbles upon cybernetically enhanced Zebesians, however, there's no time to examine this as Maurice finds something important. Apparently, The Galactic Federation was experimenting with bioweapons, which is strictly prohibited within the galaxy. This gives some introspection for Samus as she reflects on bringing the baby Metroid back to be experimented on, as well as giving us information that Adam is a strong advocate agaisnt the use of bioweapons and bioweapons research. Samus finds herself worrying about his opinion of her once more, feeling it a jarring experience and questioning why she cares so much.
The crew decides to do more gumshoe work to search for a Madeline Bergman, the supposed highest authority on the space station. Within minutes of going back to the location in which she found the cybernetically enhanced Zebesian, Samus is attacked by multiple hostiles of the same nature. Both Adam and Samus agree that she is best suited at combating them and is sealed within the room to dispatch of them, which she does so without trouble. After the battle, she quickly realises another fight has broken out outside of the research facility. Joining the fray, she's ambushed by a fairly large monster while the other squad members are equally distracted by the sudden appearence of more aliens. After dodging the striking tasil of the large purple lizard'like alien, Samus is saved by Anthony from a wlel aimed plasma blast. The xenos quickly disperse after this. A small exchange happens between Anthony and Samus, with her giving him a friendly punch to the shoulder as he tells her that she probably won't need the next plasma bolt he's saving to cover her again.
The reunion is quickly broken up with the marines finding Lyle's corpse within the bushes. Samus is, however, much more interested in a trail of blood leading away from his corpse. She follows it to find the creature from earlier as a shell for something that's evolved. Beofre nay other details cna be gleaned from the moment, Adam gives orders to Samus to follow the purple lizard into Sector 3.
As she follows the creature into a lava filled area, she comes across another large alien that is bent on killing her. Adma authorizes use of her Varia feature and she quickly dispatches the alien with this, coupled with her Ice Beam feature. A little while later she stumbles upon a frozen metroid, noting that it would be impossible for a metroid to exist her because of the cold climate, as well as that the baby was the last of metroid kind. You can tell the reflection brings a small sadness to her.
Further along we find Maurice frozen and dead within the snow and a quick glimps of a woman looking out at Samus and the late Maurice from a facility near-by. Samus races to engage the researcher and as she persues the woman, the researcher tells Samus that Maurice was killed by another federation solider. Before further questioning can be done, a large robot attack them both, clearly operated by a Federation soldier as well. However, once the robot is incapacitated, the pilot is no where to be found.
Samus has little time for reflection as Adam now gives the order to keep pursuit of the alien hot. However, it is determined that there is clearly a traitor amongst them. Some more introspection along the way to her target gives some much need summarization of what's transpired, as well as giving one key note on Samus's personality. Instead of naming names of who the traitor could possibly be, she gives the assassin a nickname to disassociate him from the potential that he could be either Adam or Anthony. She also reflects on how the woman she saved could be Madeline Bergman, but that she would need to be protected.
Furhter along Samus encoutners Anthony under attack. After disposing of the creature, as well as being authorized to use the grapple beam, the two make quick work and force the xeno to retreat. Anthony then elaborates on the fact that they were to move as a unit now and were supposed to meet up at a near-by location, but that no one else had shown up. The goal was to restore power to this sector of the facility and though Anthony questions Adam's use of all troops to do so, that his commander must have had good reasoning.
Queue flashback as Samus reflects upon a particularly traumatic moment in her life. Something malfunctions on a mission and Adam is forced to sacrifice his own brother of the safety of his squad. Samus protests saying thats he could save him if only Adam would give the order, but Adam orders her instead to stand down and they abandon his brother to his inevitable death. Upon reflection, Samus believes she had acted childish and that Adma had been correct in his judgement. However, she also notes that even if Adam was correct in his judgement, given the same scenario, she would still question it and try to save whomever was in danger again, despite the personal risk. Epic foreshadowing much?
Another boss fight ensues and, assuredly enough, Samus kicks ass and dispatches of her foe. Not too much further along is the now empty husk of the alien she had been chasing, evolving much like that of the fluffy creature she had first encountered. Easily recognisable that the two aliens are one in the same. Further along we come to one of the marquee points in the discussion: Ridley
Now here's the thing: yes, Samus does freeze up. Considering that this guy just came in like a bat out of Hell after he had died on planet Zebes (remember that was mentioned in the first cutscene?) would be a pretty big shock. As I've said before, Samus has no weaponry that could effectively outright kill Ridley, unlike most of the other monsters and aliens she faces. Add on top of that fact that she displayed both flashbacks to her childhood and feelings of helplessness when she realised she really had very little chance against Ridley if he could survive the Zebes incident and you've got a cocktail for instant hesistation. However, and this is a big however, when the chips are down and Anthony is in trouble, Samus has absolutely no issues with staring Ridley down with her Plasma Cannon an inch from his face and ready to scrap. The fact is no matter how many times you stare death in the face, in a realistic sense of character portrayal, someone who's spread so much anguish and terror into Samus's life like Ridley has is going to have a profound effect on her. Honestly, I would even go as far to say that Prime got it wrong! This sole reaction humanises Samus in a whole new light but also puts her on a higher pedistal for overcoming that fear of her past tormenter time and time again to get the job done. These are some of the traits -compelling backstory, emotional responce to said backstory and growth to overcome deep seeded emotions- that define a three-dimensional character as well as a strong female in gaming today. And wouldn't you know it, Ridley isn't even stopped by that large scale battle and looking like he'd had a once over in a plasma vent! Sort of proves that "nigh indestructable" theory, doesn't it?
Samus deeply regrets having turned on Anthony when he had pointed his cannon seemingly at her shoulder. This "redemption" sequence really pins how disassociated with humanity Samus truly is and shows her instinctual emotion that everyone is out to get her and that she truly is alone in the universe and how much she regrets being that way. More reflection on the situation and her relationship with Adam comes in the form of reflecting on why he hadn't communicated with her, given that he seems to do so about eveyr five minutes. She proposes the thought that the Deleter would have pegged Adam as a high priority target and most likely went for him. She also notes that Adam probably already knew about the assassin and had his guard up the entire time. Also, notice the subtle fist clench at the mention of Adam being attacked, specifically on the "let his guard down" part. Another subtle reference to how she prized having her guard up so much, yet having a conflict with it interfearing with her interactions with others. She then notes how much her uncontrolled thoughts about Adam were annoying her.
A chase then ensues of her following who is presumed to be the Deleter. She follows him a fair distance and finally comes to a road block with her currently activated abilities. Now, here's a key point for the argument with her needing Adam to tell her what to do. When faced with the destroyed bridged, she very well knows that the Screw Attack would easily get her across and even goes as far as to mock Adam by asking if he has any objections to using this ability. Seriously, people are complaining about her being under the thumb of a man when she openly mocks how he's controlling her use of her weapons systems? Could it jsut be me or is she A) Growing as a character -or- B) Never really enjoyed limiting authority, even when it is "daddy" giving her the limitations?
The chase scene ends with Samus loosing the Deleter, but finding Madeline. Big reveal is that the facility was actually a harvesting ground for Metroids and the culminations of an elite bioweapons group not disimilar to that of the Space Pirates. Ridley evolved from the purple lizard, which evolved from the little fluffy thing that Samus had suspected of being some dark entity earlier on that she actually helped grow into what it is now. Hevay. Stuff. So what does this mean? Well, for starters, this means Ridley can't be killed both literally and figuratively. Samus will never be rid of him because he can just grow again, apparently with the same hatred for Samus as ever. This means that there's absolutely no way of getting resolution for her parents being killed throug the destruction of Ridley. This means that this deep seeded fear of Ridley coming to eat her up is even more so because this will be happening for the rest of her life! Most of us outgrew the concept of a boogeyman, but unfortunately for Miss. Aran that is a reality of life. Ridley will always be in the shadows, waiting to gobble her up like a snack and she always has to have that guard up.
Speaking of, notice how she barely flinched at this news? That emotional shield she has up is quite strong. It's as if she's an independant female working out her own problems by herself. Really though, I think what we can take away from this is that Samus has always been able to operate without Adam, regardless of what you may want to believe all those orders are. He's apart of the armed forces of that era, that's what soldiers do. Samus is still a civilian, no matter what way you want to slice it. She just gets paid for shooting badguys on private contracts.
If only for my sanity, I'm going to try and ignore msot of the main story unless relevant. This is getting to be really long.
Another boss fight. After Samus expertly obliterates this foul creature, she stumbled upon a Metroid. Yes, finally. She immediately has flashbacks of when she first found Baby within planet Zebes. However, this particular Metroid seems to be a little more sinister, for as soon as Samus is rendered defensless from a Freeze Blast to the back, the Metroid becomes hostile. Her would-be killer does save her from the Metroid. Not interestingly enough, Adam was the shooter. He subdued Samus as not to be able to interupt him from a suicidal mission to detatch Sector Zero and self-destruct the labratories to kill MB and the Metroids. Remember that epic foreshadowing? Yeah, right here. Given ehr chance at redemption, Samus pleads Adam to let her go instead, claiming that she's the only one who has a chance of destroying the Metroids. Adam retorts by saying that with the self-destruct program, he stands a chance against Metroids, but against Ridley he'd be killed. Inevtiably, Adam heads off and Samus breaks down into calling out for Adam. However, Adam does turn back and ask Samus "No objections, right, Lady?" to which Samus respectfully gives a thumbs-down, solidifying the their bod with the symbol that started it all.
Now, a lot of people are up in arms about this scene. To all those that think this destroys the reputation of Samus Aran, let me give you a scenario. Think about the person you cherish most in this world. It can be a friend, a parent, your significant other; just the signular person that you cherish most on this Earth. Now, imagine them saying to you "I have to die so you can live" and having to watch them walk off while you're helpless to stop them. Would that not make you an emotional wreck? In terms of being human, Samus acted perfectly natural to the situation. She became human once more. However, she also became something more than that when she realised that what Adam did was for the betterment of both her and the universe. She became a bigger person because of it and grew as a character. God forbid that had to be done through a tearful, emotion filled scene but that's how it was done. The death of the closest person to her made her resolve that much greater to achieve her one goal: make Ridley pay!
So during one of the biggest fights yet against the Metroid Queen, we get another flashback. One that gives us a sense that she feels that as the countdown finalizes, it was all for naught. she had failed Adam and her last orders by not being able to stop the ship. However, Deus Ex Machina kicks in and the ship stops.Not as terribly as important that most other scenes, but it does give the sense that, yes, Samus does care about Adam and wants to make him proud like a good daughter would to a father. If the relationship between the two wasn't solidified between the two already, it has to be now.
The other interesting scene is the one where the real Madeline, Melissa and Samus all unite. Why is this so important? Well, it's the telling of Melissa's story that's so thought provoking. She was an emotionless robot up until the point where the first baby Metroid had been born. Suddenly, after experiencing the joys of motherhood, the android was filled with emotions, thoughts and opinions. She was a fountain of humanity personified and couldn't help but try to protect the Metroids and look out for their well being despite what anyone else wanted. This didn't, however, make her opposed to experimentation on Metroids, so long as they weren't injured in the process. Wow, kinda sounds familiar, doesn't it? The uncanny resemblence between Melissa and Samus is by no mistake and certainly personifies who Samus is as a person. It also shows that unlike Melissa, Samus has learned to have a lot of restraint when it comes to these matter, conducting herself in a very professional manner in most cases.
Both scene 8 and scene 9 are fairly void of anything that hasn't already been said. Shadow Ops group moves in and captures all the Metroids after a big shoot out, Samus is congratulated but doesn't succeed in killing the Metroids and a certain someone comes back after his Deux Ex Machina moment of stopping the ship. All in all, I suppose my point wasn't to prove that the story was good, but seriously, that's a pretty bad ass story as far as video games go. No, it wasn't deep, the themes were largely based upon the extinction of one race to save another as well as the dangers of A.I., but as far as an action title goes I'd say it's pretty damn good.
Now, the big issue was "is Samus ruined" and I really have to stick with "no!" Most of the things people complain about are false or hyperbole. Samus had two emotional scenes throughout the entire game: one where she cried and for a justifiable reason because the only person that understood her sacrificed himself so she could live and the other was a moment of paralyzing fear, also completely justified given her past with Ridley and what he just came back from, as well as the fact that she redeems that moment by sticking her plasma cannon right in his God damned face thirty seconds later! The rest is just either introspection on who she is as a person, who she was as a person, comparing the two, or just general problem solving and sleuthing to figure out what happened aboard the space station.
In conclusion, the hype of her being a total sellout to her badass bounty hunter roots is a total myth. It's hyperbole upon two moments which, whether you like it or not, make her more human and less immortal badass which actually gives her great character depth. She still kicks ass, she still takes names, she's still outta gum while doing it, she just sheds a few tears for the people that die along the way now. And really, is that such a bad thing?
TL;DR- There is no TL;DR. Stop being lazy a read the damn thing!
hmm if they would suddenly make a GOOD sonic game, hell, then indeed i would take back my words, and sonic might be revived.TLatshaw said:He has bad games, but does that ruin how good his original games were? Is the sole concept of Sonic as a character destroyed, or can a new, better game bring back the old mindset? It's at least arguable. Also:thahat said:
also: sonic says! smoking isent cool
Apparently you did skim past ehre because you completely ignored half my argument, but let me reitterate =)sunburst313 said:
1. Gameplay is narrative. Until you get that, you'll never understand why Other M doesn't make Samus a strong female lead for you.
2. You're grossly blowing two scenes in the entire game out of proportion. To prove just that, just read my lengthy post above that looks at the entire game from the movie clip experience and still has very little "blubbery non ass kicking" Samus while having justifiable points for the moments she is.
3. Your presuposition of her not being emotional is your own fault. That's your image of her. You do not own the creative rights to Samus, thus you cannot say "that is what she is" because clearly, she isn't. If you're disappointed that she isn't, that's fine. To say she's a bad character because of it, however, is nerd rage.
4. In my review, I actually did put a supposition that she is very closely tied to Melissa in terms of character development. She seems to display little to no emtoion previous to her finding the Metroid. Honestly, she could've been a cold hearted killer up until Other M when she starts to doubt that persona of herself because of Baby. Really, that ties in perfectly with the narrative of the serise, especially on how they ended the game with all the growth she went through as a person.
In any case, I strongly suggest you read this post: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.233898.8276274 and I strongly encourage feed back.
You still haven't read and understood my posts because I still didn't say that. I'm not going to care about your arguments until you stop pretending I've said things that other people besides me might have said just because you have a ready made reply for that.HellsingerAngel said:
Team Ninja turned Samus into their kind of woman, submissive and whiny while still being able to mass murder for no reason.
I am just surprised they didn't give her a boob job to make her look more like the girls in their games.
I am just surprised they didn't give her a boob job to make her look more like the girls in their games.
Considering you've done nothing but stand by your laurals instead of trying to rephrase your point or come up with counter points, I find the "head in the sand" approach to be a little degrading. Regardless, I'll go ahead and debate on your terms.sunburst313 said:
Samus Aran is:
-An intellectual person with amazing outside the box thinking. She puzzle solves her way through various mazes, can cross examine someone's story to find faults in them, and overall find little niche clues to uncover the truths within a secrative conspiracy.
-A caring individual. Her realtionship with Baby was certainly a paternal one and she cared for that little guy more than anything. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see much of that within Other M, but reminants of it through the beginning cutscene and her encounter with the first Metroid baby both elude to her relationship with Baby. Also, she has strong ties with both Anthony as one of her good friends and Adam as her best friend/father figure. She was emotionally impacted by both dying and certainly showed affection for both, as well as regret for not living up to what she believed she could be.
-A stone cold killer. She beat Ridley and the Queen Metroid. Nuff said.
-Strong willed individual. In the face of adversity, she rarely falters. She stands her ground for what she beleives in. Her conviction was certainly questioned within Other M, but when the chips were on the table, Samus stood her ground and did what needed to be done, regardless of risk involved. This si certainly exemplified that once Anthony took his fall, Samus felt obligated to get through Ridley, even if Anthony was most likely dead, to save him.
-An insecure woman. It's a big bad universe out there. She's alone for the most part and that really shone in Other M. Everytime she felt alone she would start to think to herself and sometimes worry or panic just a tiny bit. Being alone for as long as she has doesn't mean she's a loner, it means her business takes her away from those she cares about. This was very apparent throughout this game.
-She's not a people person. This isn't to say that she doesn't enjoy company. Clearly she liked the comradery of Anthony and the familiarity of structure that Adam represented. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean she's a huge talker. She barely has any dialogue apart from the complete strangers in this game, perfering to analyse herself than talk. A woman of few words, Samus is not the social butterfly of any group.
Really, that's a pretty fleshed out character right there. Five points of reference by using only one game. Whether they choose to expand that is up to Nintendo, but I think they did a great job of introducing the real Samus Aran within one game.
false.DaBozz said:
"Everything is wrong with Silent protagonists dude,"
... no.
"they are gone dead"
and now we have pointlessly whiny characters! yay!
"they are gone dead, only nintendo/Valve fanboys cling to the Mute character now"
Im not a fanboy of either, but mute characters you can fill in the blanks, its alot more relateable, and what if you play a character whose personality is nothing like yours? what about tidus or sora? both characters are fucking annoying. now imagine the game only where instead of spewing poorly written dialogue, they spoke in body language. was just there for the ride, and that we the players and he the character would both feel that way. It would be a million times more effective than the tripe the game gives you.
"to qoute Yahtzee "Nowadays people are used to protagonists with more depth than a spoon" and I agree with that"
a character doesn't need dialogue for depth.
"its the person your playing as, you meant to care if they die"
you are effectively them. I care if I die.
"how can you care about a character that doesn't talk and has NO plot Development at all? the truth is; you can't."
wrong. silent doesn't mean they don't develop. go play mother 3, the characters don't talk, yet they develop and have depth. I know not many games have writing all that solid, but for the love of god, there isn't anything wrong with asking for it.
I interpreted the character very differently from you because you were able to connect the gameplay with the story while the game utterly failed to do that for me. All I saw was the long self-deprecating diary entries juxtaposed harshly against all the badass feats she accomplished while I was playing only to see her once again fall apart once I was no longer in control. I admit that it got better towards the end, but this isn't the right place in the Metroid series to have that type of character arc because she's already been the biggest badass in the galaxy for years.HellsingerAngel said:
Also, earlier you said that the strong and independent Samus we thought we knew didn't exist but also mentioned that gameplay is narrative. How do you reconcile those two statements? Everyone believed Samus was an independent badass because we've been playing her games for over a decade and she always gets shit done on her own. She's committed genocide and destroyed planets and kicked Ridley's ass all over space without needing or wanting help from anyone. The narrative of the gameplay said she was strong and independent. Sure, she could have any number of emotions under the surface but they never once affected her actions or prevented her from kicking ass. If gameplay is narrative then the Samus Aran we saw in the majority of Other M is inconsistent with the narrative we've experienced with the entire series.
It's also not so much fan input, as that can slaughter a game as well, but quality control, for example, Bioware looked at fan comments for Mass Effect, implemented some, threw away others, and made the game better for it. Nobody should ever be of the mindset they know exactly what is right, or the only proper way to do something without outside input.hobo_welf said:
Exactly. Video game characters aren't as set in stone as characters in movies and books. They are easily molded by whomever is in control of the current title, but the player has always had the power to pick and choose what they like best about the characters as well, creating their own image.thahat said:hmm if they would suddenly make a GOOD sonic game, hell, then indeed i would take back my words, and sonic might be revived.TLatshaw said:He has bad games, but does that ruin how good his original games were? Is the sole concept of Sonic as a character destroyed, or can a new, better game bring back the old mindset? It's at least arguable. Also:
also: sonic says! smoking isent cool
Yup, I completely understand. Which is why as a culture we need to get passed the whole seperation of cinematics and gameplay as two seperate narratives. A game is weaving a narrative through the entire experience. Just because you have control of Samus, doesn't mean that if it were a movie she'd be doing anything differently. I think the best and most unbias way of doing this with Other M is the "movie" feature where you can view everything without playing. It really brings everything together in a two hour experience. My point is bascially that when you start dividing the narrative, it's going to look disjointed, which is the entire problem you seem to be having. Samus would look like two different characters (almost) if you seperated the gameplay and the cutscenes as two individual narratives.sunburst313 said:
That is so taken out of context it isn't even fair, but you make a valid point none the less. My issue is that gamers have this preconseeved notion of who Samus Aran is. It's a definate instead of an opinion or theory. "I think Samus is..." never came up, it was just "Samus is..." and when that mold was shattered everyone got upset over it. Nintendo certainly dug their own grave with the silent protagonists hanging around for far too long and now everyone has personal bias on how character act, feel and should be when maybe that just wasn't how Nintendo invisioned then.sunburst313 said:
The strangest manifestation of this beast is certainly that Samus isn't a one-dimensional character. When you think someone like Mario, you pretty much can predict how he'll be, and I'm sure Miyamoto will agree that he's fairly one-dimensional but still a really cool guy. The issue with Samus is that we all expected this hardcore, stone cold, ice queen ***** and what we got is a real human being (or as close to) with real emotions that a bounty hunter void of social contact and a troubling past might have. Really, the atypical bounty hunter other than Samus is Boba Fett, and the only other space faring badass is Ripley from Alien. Realistically, Boba is only being fleshed out this season in Star Wars: The Clone Wars and Ripley is pretty interchangable with Samus in every context (superhuman badass alien hunter that doesn't take crap form nobody but is actually somewhat insecure/unsure of herself and wants nothing more than to nurture something/someone) and the issue with connection with this being that while you can fully immerse yourself with Ripley duct taping her rifle and flamethrower together for the final fight, you're a little too busy pressing A and watching for enemies to dodge when you see Samus at her peek ass kickingness and it doesn't sink in contextually.
The other pitfall is that most platforms that Samus has been on (with the exception of the Gamecube) didn't really have the technical capabilities of telling narrative all that exceptionally. I'm not sure about the technical side of things int erms of space and processing power, but I assume if they could have, they would have tried to give some nod to who Samus was in Super Metroid, or even the original. As was already discussed, Fusion did have moments with narrative, but that's all we really have to go by. Looking back (and I even said this is my giant rediculous post) I think that Prime did it wrong. They had the technology to weave a story like Other M and they chose not to. Yes, still amazing games and I like how the story is told, but could they have done a better job going about it? Absolutely, especially with the technology they had on hand. For whatever reason they didn't push the envelope of giving Samus a fully developed personality and that hurt her a lot this time around. I'm sure it would've been the same regardless of when it happened, but then again "haters gonna hate", right?
I just wish people would at least discuss things instead of just going "no, I'm right! Samus sucks! /thread!" instead of going through the narrative piece by piece and analysing it. When you actually look at the entire argument, it's based around two factual points and one ficticious point: Ridley scares Samus, Samus cries over Adam and Adam dominates Samus which is sexist. The first two points are great and I think they're there to cause debate about the character as all iconic characters flaws are, but I just despise when it's done unintelligably. The third, however, is pure myth. Yes, a man gives her directions. So what? You need to look at the motives of Samus. She's from a military background, Adam is a reveared colleague and she goes as far as to call him her father figure and her best friend. They're in a Federation space station so they have juristiction there. All signs point to "being a man" as not being a reason. If the case is that if Adam were Eve, Samus would still act the same, then it's not sexist. I just can't understand how people can't see that. It's just as sexist to say "Samus kicks ass, takes names and is a woman!" because the key word there is "woman".
On your first point, I didn't separate the gameplay and the cinematics. They did. In order for me to combine the two into one coherent whole, they have to work together. Like I said before, the juxtaposition was simply too harsh for me to do that. We had a self-deprecating and completely uncertain girl trying to fuse with a completely fearless badass who kills without emotion. There was no mixing of the two. None of one was present in the other. I firmly believe that weaving the narrative into the gameplay is the cornerstone of good game design and a necessary step towards making interactive art but it doesn't happen just because the game designer want it to. They have to make the two work together and Metroid: Other M simply did not accomplish that for me. It got better towards the end but that was too little, too late.HellsingerAngel said:
As for your second, it's not that Samus following Adam's orders is inherently sexist. It's the way she constantly doubts herself while following his orders in order to prove she can be a good soldier, even through absolutely retarded situations like the lava level, that weakens her character and is taken as a hit to the independent strength that has become such a feminist icon. And as I mentioned before, that independent strength was told to us through nearly every gameplay decision made in the series before now. Taking that away from her in any way is certain to be seen as a large blow to feminism in gaming which makes the outrage both inevitable and understandable.
The bottom line is that Samus can have all the emotions and doubts and character development she wants without harming her image, but it becomes a betrayal of the series as soon as those feelings begin affecting her ability to get shit done the same way she always has. I mean sure, people are going to ***** no matter how they give her personality but there's nothing you can do about that.
Again, agree to disagree. I think most of the cutscenes ended themselves on "And Samus does badass X stance, what will you do now!?" and your decision is how her character plays out. I don't need a cutscene to set anything up for me. I could play an entire game without cutscenes and still know that Samus Aran is a total badass with daddy issues if my entire mission was dictated through a bunch of text bubbles doted about checkpoints. Then again, I come form an era where this was the norm. Maybe old school eyes in new school era? I dunno. All I know is that reading between the lines is something people tend not to do and just because only the last five seconds of the cutscene shows her defiantly snubbing Ridley with her palsma cannon, I can live with that reality and glean what I need from it.sunburst313 said:
Not invalidating your point, just saying where I come from.
Apparently you've never seen a soldier. Then again, that's a blanket statement. From my experience, soldiers are well trained machines of death, bred to take orders without question. It's just how the military works. It's kinda funny and jarring at the same time to see some of the most opinionated of my friends absolutely shut their brains off and go to work when someone barks out a command like a drill seargent. The fact is that stuff never gets bred out of you and Samus coming back to her old commander probably brought about that trained instinct again. In the second cutscene she was about to offer her assistance (strange for Miss. Aran indeed) before they were attacked. I just think it's a mentality that never quite left her and was brought out by Adam again.sunburst313 said:
The voice acting for Samus was terrible.
This, however, does /not/ mean she was ruined, just that her voice in Other M sounds prettymuch dead. Was the writer of that article completely fails to mention is that she's speaking of what she was like before, not long after her family were slaughtered by Ridley, not what she is like in any of the games. So whilst I agree that the voice and much of the blatantly obvious things said are ridiculous, I still would not agree that it ruined her. The fact is she overcame the difficulties. (Perfectly reasonable ones too if you think of your planet being attacked and butchered by space pirates and your family being killed by a purple space dragon.)
This, however, does /not/ mean she was ruined, just that her voice in Other M sounds prettymuch dead. Was the writer of that article completely fails to mention is that she's speaking of what she was like before, not long after her family were slaughtered by Ridley, not what she is like in any of the games. So whilst I agree that the voice and much of the blatantly obvious things said are ridiculous, I still would not agree that it ruined her. The fact is she overcame the difficulties. (Perfectly reasonable ones too if you think of your planet being attacked and butchered by space pirates and your family being killed by a purple space dragon.)
Well Seig Heil Mister Grammar Nazi. I'm sorry you really didn't understand the satire that I was using to present what I was saying. I know the difference between war, murder, and manslaughter. But sometimes one word works more poetically than another, and will be used so. So, I'll make a deal with you. I'll use war, murder, killing, manslaughter, accidental fatality, casualty, acceptable losses, etc. etc. etc. correctly on one stipulation. That you learn to accept and appreciate satire, poetic license, and a broader use of variety within language.RelexCryo said:
Secondly, yes, by all technicality, you are right, but please please PLEASE chill out and relax. You'll live a lot longer, have less stomach ulcers, lower chance of heart disease, and make more friends.