Poll: Would you date a transgendered person?

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Supreme Evil Overlord
Jan 21, 2009
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I voted it depends/I don't fit in the above categories. Because. I am a female. I am also bisexual. I would date a FTM or MTF if I found one attractive enough. I've known enough of them that I have no problems with them. By all means, if you were born one gender and identify with the opposite gender enough to want to change your gender, do it. If that's what makes you happy.
If they are compatible with me then why wouldn't I date them?
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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Da_Vane said:
Kendarik said:
I don't think I could ever look at them and REALLY see any post op as "their new gender". They will always be victims of a mental illness and medical misconduct to me. As such I will treat them with respect and I will be the first to support them in obtaining equal rights and good treatment, but they will never really be their new gender in my mind.
So you don't support them then? This is the very first decision everybody really needs to make when dealing with another human being - the moment you decide they will NEVER be their new gender in your mind, you have undermined their rights. That's like saying you have decided that they will NEVER be a human being in your mind. You don't have to be dating someone to make this decision - it is common courtesy.

You won't know if someone is pre-op or post-op until they tell you or you are close enough to get intimate with them, but you will be able to determine what gender they are and how they should be treated long before that. If your sense of what gender a person is is based on the status of their genitalia, then you are sadly mistaken, because unless you make the habit of wandering naked, this isn't something people normally see.

There are other gender cues, and these gender cues reinforce gender identity. If in doubt, go for the gender cues in the way people are dressed, and other conscious, deliberate choices they are making to reinforce those gender cues. These are simple things that, while they often come across as stereotypical, and trying too hard, are usually done for a reason - just like any other identity cue.

If ANYBODY feels they have the right to decide that someone else will NEVER be something, then perhaps they should be the ones diagnosed with the mental illness. Because they are obviously lacking in the courtesy and empathy required to be a human being, and maybe they should understand and experience what it is like to be treated as if they will NEVER be something that they care about, as much as they desire it. To never be treated as a reasonable person that has the right to share opinions in public on the state of others should suffice in most cases.
There is a difference between tolerating and accepting.

Tolerance is something you do out of common courtesy. Acceptance is personal act.

I'll tolerate anyone who wishes to change their sex, but that doesn't mean I have to accept the gender they've become.
 

Kinguendo

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Apr 10, 2009
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Monkeyman O said:
Kinguendo said:
do gay men find women sexually attractive?

Do gay women find men sexually attractive?

I really dont know...
The first picture doesnt work and the second looks like a woman, kinda like Tina Fey... whats your point? That gay women look like Tina Fey?

Look, you are coming off as incredibly ignorant and intentionally offensive.
 

Raika

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Jul 31, 2011
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Melanie McGreevey said:
And YES trannie IS indeed derogatory to SOME trans people, and a lot of that has to do with it being that last word they hear before being assaulted, or attacked in some way.
I agree to an extent. I've heard the term 'tranny' used in a very derogatory way(akin to '******' or similar), but I've also heard it used as shorthand since, let's face it, it's a linguistic derivative of 'transsexual', which is kind of a mouthful. I guess it's all about context.
 

Michael Hirst

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May 18, 2011
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Short answer: no.

Long answer: I'm not intolerant and wouldn't say they have to right to be but it just wouldn't sit right with me. I believe that no matter what, you're born a particular gender and no amount of surgery or psychology can completely change that. I can get why gender confusion would be frustrating as hell for someone but that doesn't mean I could date one.

Then again I do also keep the desire to one day have children of my own, pretty instinctual behaviour that can only be done one way. Surrogate mothers not being an option.
 

VoEC

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Dec 10, 2010
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As a pre-op transgender girl (aka MTF) who just started transitioning and tried to kill herself last year (after which I came out) the answers of some people here quite sadden me.

I maybe could understand that you would not like to date a tg person because it would make you feel uncomfortable or something, especially if they hadn't had the surgery yet. But just blatantly saying that you think people like me are disgusting and mentally ill and that you would never date a "man" because your not gay is really depressing for me.
I thought that the Escapist community consisted of mostly open minded people.

I admit that I am really scared about how it will be when I go to the university this year. I guess that many people still don't really understand transgenderism and that the vox populi shapes many misconceptions about trans people. I don't know if I will be able to find new friends who will accept me as a girl.
I havn't had any kind of relationship and I guess that will never change if people still think like this.

That said, I am glad that there are some open minded people like myself here. I hope I will meet some like you in my future.


But to get back to the question:

Yes, I would. In fact, it doesn't matter.

I am pan and I don't give a damn about what gender you are or what sex you have.
Maybe, I am more attracted to one person or the other based on the looks, but in the end all that matters for me in a relationship is the personality of my partner.
Sex might be a problem for a partner who is transgender and doesn't feel comfortable in his or her body at all, it certainly is for me.

But I could never judge a person for being born in the wrong body, or born with two sexes or whatnot, even in an relationship.

EDIT:
Oh, and regarding having kids:
Well, I am not going to have children anyway, because, well, I can't. But even if I were not in this situation, I wouldn't have any problem with adoption.
 

Monkeyman O'Brien

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Jan 27, 2012
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Melanie McGreevey said:
He/she said what i had intended. A bigot isn't someone who doesn't agree with you, it's someone who wants to assault you because you are different.

And YES trannie IS indeed derogatory to SOME trans people, and a lot of that has to do with it being that last word they hear before being assaulted, or attacked in some way.
Ahh nice. Changing the story to suit yourself now huh.
Yes, a bigot is someone who attacks someone else just for being different. But that is not the scenario we are talking about you and you know it. Getting into a relationship with someone and deliberately hiding a very important bit of information that you know could change how they feel is a disgusting act and in itself is worthy of a beat down. But you just want to change the story to suit your own means so you can accuse others of being bigots.
Thus, we return to the simple fact that you diminish the experiences of those who did nothing to anyone and thus take away one of the few weapons they have.
Hope you feel good about yourself.

As for the trannie thing. Tough shit. Just because a small number of people use it as a insult does not make it so. So they can just learn to deal with it. Especially as they can not even decide on a correct term themselves.

Mortai Gravesend said:
Well if they weren't transsexual you wouldn't be beating them up so it matters. But no, I didn't invalidate anything. Considering that you're pro-hate crime in certain instances I don't think you have room to talk. Considering, you know, you admitted you'd commit one.
Once again, you people trying to change the story to suit yourselves. Fact is if they had not of lied about a very sensative issue before starting a relationship then they would not deserve a beating. As someone else said that issue could be a variety of things including cults, STDs or liking Michael Bay movies.

Kinguendo said:
The first picture doesnt work and the second looks like a woman, kinda like Tina Fey... whats your point? That gay women look like Tina Fey?

Look, you are coming off as incredibly ignorant and intentionally offensive.
The first picture if of a man who looks a lot like a woman. Second picture is of a woman who looks a lot like a man. Which is exactly what you asked. And I could not care less what people think of me. You don't have to when you are right.
 

Agayek

Ravenous Gormandizer
Oct 23, 2008
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Melanie McGreevey said:
I have a question to those of you that say NOT telling you is a lie...how? It's a choice to unveil bits of a painful past. When you go into a relationship with someone, on that first date, do you describe every sexual encounter you've had, every quirk of your personality, every physical "issue" (be it VD, a cold, etc) you've had?

I am not trying to be argumentative, i am just curious if you expect "full disclosure" from your partner, do you give it back? I realize being trans is a little different, but if you have had regrets, mistakes, trauma happen to you, to you tell the person you're with every minute detail?

if so, good on you!
I dunno about the rest of it, but if I had herpies or AIDS or whatever, I damn well would tell my partner before doing the deed.

You could make all sorts of arguments about bad parallels, but the core concept is the same. You are expecting someone to go in blind, then be fine with it afterwards, and that's generally considered poor manners at best.
 

Gatx

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Jul 7, 2011
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I would say that if I didn't know she was a transgendered person, and found out afterwards, I would keep dating her. Then again I would want to start a family at some point so there will be kinks to work out. And no, adoption would not be an option, gotta spread the genes and all that, you know.

Also, what about options for homosexuals?
 

D Moness

Left the building
Sep 16, 2010
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VoEC said:
As a pre-op transgender girl (aka MTF) who just started transitioning and tried to kill herself last year (after which I came out) the answers of some people here quite sadden me.
Yeah kind of the reason i usually avoid these topics (since they pop up once in a while). After a few very fruitless discussions with others a long time ago on this forum I just gave up for my own piece of mind.

I am saddened by the replies that say i support them but do not see them in the gender they identify with ... to me that is not supporting it.
 

Batou667

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Oct 5, 2011
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Raika said:
To demand that someone abandon their identity just because you're too happy being ignorant to look past the physical attributes of a person is just asinine, not to mention disgusting and hateful.
Fine. In that case, I'm a Golden Retriever. Don't be biased against me, I may look like a geeky adult male but in my heart of hearts I just want to frolick naked in public grassy areas, chew sticks, drink from puddles and bashfully defecate on your neighbour's lawn.

I'm not transphobic but definitely trans-skeptic. I'm of the opinion that transgendered people need therapy, not surgery, and if after that they still want the surgery then they need more therapy instead. I don't believe you can pick and choose your gender in the same way that you'd change your hair colour or get coloured contact lenses. That's probably a horribly bigotted thing of me to say, but dammit, that's just how I feel on the issue.
 

Monkeyman O'Brien

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Jan 27, 2012
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Melanie McGreevey said:
Ok i'm confused, i didn't change anything. I said bigotry fueled, because whoever said they'd beat someone down for it, not sure what has changed. And please tell me how many trans people you know, and of them, how many are ok with someone calling them trannie?
There is nothing bigoted about it. Not wanting to date one does not make you a bigot. And them lying about it makes them an asshole deserving of a beating just as if they had of lied about having a STD, being in a cult or voting for Bush.
As for trannies, I know 2. 1 that is serious and he does not care about it since he does not expect everyone to learn a shitload of new terms and the other is just a dude who wears a dress for attention and he does not care either.
 

Da_Vane

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Dec 31, 2007
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Cowabungaa said:
Nope, because I just don't like men. Yes, I know they appear to be women, sometimes in many assets, but in the end they're still men; they have the genes of a man, started out with the reproductive organs of a man and can't get babies as a result.

And no I don't think that's shallow. I don't count not being gay as being shallow. And see it like this; more transgenders for everyone else!
This is actually incorrect, and the result of a lack of education and awareness on Gender Dysporia and other trans-related conditions. The trans community is very varied, but let's make this easy and stick with transsexuals, since transgendered individuals can cover people who live full time in the opposite gender, but remain their birth sex, and also include transvestites, and a whole range of variants.

Firstly, to understand growth and development, you need to understand the roles of genes and hormones. MtF transsexuals are women, because they have the female hormonal profile, and therefore grow and develop like women. Genes code proteins, which guide growth through organ development and hormonal distribution, which is normally sexed.

The development of genitalia occurs in two main phases - pre-natal foetal development from stem-cells, and puberty. Also, at puberty, the secondary function of genitalia activates, which is to produce sex hormones to further direct growth. This results in a positive feedback cycle - that is, from a stem cell, you start male, and become increasingly male, or you start female, and become increasingly female. The genes in the original stem cells normally code for the right hormones to trigger the right hormones.

However, this can be interrupted fairly easily. The foetus shares the hormonal environment of it's mother, and an hormonal imbalance can result in the foetus developing the wrong genitalia and thus throwing out the system entirely. A female can become male, simply because of too much testosterone in the mother at a critical point during pregnancy. During puberty, when the male genitalia activates, it just increases the issues, because while the genes are coding for female, the hormones from the testes is coding male.

It should be remembered that the key driver of puberty is the pituitary gland, which is virtually the same in males and females, but codes relevant to genes, and provides a supplementary amount of hormones compared to the genitals, once activated.

Out of interest, testosterone is actually converted into oestrogen in both males and females, but females are able to convert much more. Any issues converting testosterone to oestrogen can also be another cause of transsexuality, and is why there are more MtF transsexuals than FtM (besides the success rate and sociological factors) when purely biological conditions are considered.

Finally, if anyone has actually looked at the anatomy of the vagina, you will actually realise that the construct of the clitoris is, in fact, the construct of the penis and testies. This is because, before sexualization of the foetus starts, it actually grows as a female. It is very small, and within only a few weeks, when sexualization starts, and this is when the sexual characteristics will start to emerge and you can actually begin to tell the sex of the foetus.

Vaginoplasty for MtF transsexuals doesn't really work because it basically creates a wound in the abdomen, and then turns the head of the penis into an engorged clitoris. Unfortunately, despite hormones, the head of the penis is still often about ten times the size of the female clitoris, and that isn't always pretty.

FtMs have it worse, because they essentially take the clitoris, and then use arm muscle to create the shaft of a penis, but even if a lot of testosterone, the enlarged clitoris simply does not grow big enough to work, and the arm muscle does not have the tensile strength for full penetration. Interesting fact - the muscle strength and thickness of the penis increases by 80% during puberty. If that actually happened to other muscles like arm muscles, we wouldn't actually be able to move our arm - but would be able to punch through brick walls and solid steel sheets.

It's likely that only advances in stem cell research, which will allow for the creation of new organs, including sex organs, will actually solve these issues. More importantly, this will also solve the issue of reproduction. What you are basically looking at is the process of genital transplants, which will become a fundamental aspect of medical research within the next 50 years.

When this does happen, and it will, unless you would reject someone because they've had a heart transplant, there will be no way to know whether or not the person you are with was born male or female, and whether that is relevant.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the people here on the Escapist would go with a genetically engineered space alien if they were happy and getting laid at the end of it all. That's what it comes down to - judging and prejudice is for n00bs!
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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Melanie McGreevey said:
Casual Shinji said:
Tolerance is something you do out of common courtesy. Acceptance is personal act.

I'll tolerate anyone who wishes to change their sex, but that doesn't mean I have to accept the gender they've become.
I agree, you do NOT have to accept them, but why would you even associate with them (if you indeed have).
It's not about not wanting to associate with them, because people are more than just their gender, whether it's surgically altered or not.

I'll explain it like this: If my sister had a boyfriend, and I'd think he was an absolute douchebag, I would tolerate it because my sister is happy with him. But that wouldn't mean I would accept her idea of him as the greatest guy in the world, because I still think he's a douchebag.
 

lordmardok

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Mar 25, 2010
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I actually have no problem with it. I'm one of those rare guys that actually has no issue with a woman's appearance. So long as she takes care of herself (i.e. showers regularly and is acquainted with basic hygiene, I'm not asking for much.) then it really is the personality that matters. I get bored with appearances very swiftly but a good personality keeps me rather interested.
 
Mar 9, 2010
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Nope, I think it's kinda weird. Anything to do with dudes being chicks and chicks being dudes, from cross-dressing to sex changes, is weird to me. Do it as you please but my stance isn't changing.
 

elvis-66

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Apr 2, 2010
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If a person feels trapped in their body I have no problem with said person undergoing "cosmetic" procedures so they can feel that the body they are in is a better fit for their personality.

I feel that said person should have all the rights that attributed to them if as the gender they started and the gender they "end up" - in short a person doesnt stop being a person just because they have a "sex change".

BUT

Could I have sex with a MtF? No. If they feel comfortable for what they have done and that it was a worthwhile exercise then bully for them, but to me someone who has undergone a sex change is just a "man" who has castrated himself, severed "his" penis, had implants and taken a metric-fuckton of hormones.

If I were to date someone who had undergone a transgender procedure and not told me about it I can verify that I would feel raped. Rape is sex against someones will and to me someone who is transgender still retains their original sex - no matter how "pretty" they are now - and I have no desire to have sex with another man.

Call me bigot, call me twisted, call me whatever, the people who go through it and the people who live with those who go through it, if it makes you happy then do it with my blessing. I'm a live and let live kind of guy
 

DazBurger

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May 22, 2009
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No, never... EVER!

I find it admirable that other people can do this, but I get nauseous thinking about it for some reason. Sorry, but I do! Can't help it!


Also... Don't really believe in all that "born in the wrong body"-deal, with what iv gathered it sounds more like a fetish to me.... But then again, I respect their wishes and wish them happiness like I would any other.
 

Malgan

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Jun 23, 2009
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Transgendered people are quite a wide in variation. As a gay person, I would need someone who has the right equipment downstairs, sounds, acts and looks like a man. Would probably not date if I knew that he used to be a girl, but I'm mature enough to admit that I would probably reconsider if I had a few dates before I had gotten to know.

If it's one of those who does not define himself as a man nor a female, then I wouldn't care. As long as the personality and genetalia matches my preferences.

I'm prejudiced, but who isn't.