Say hello to the new Iron Woman

[vallorn]

Also, disappointed she isn't an old woman. God dammit, where is my Iron Gran already???

Iron Gran, you mean this?

We can't have Thatcher as the new Iron Gran, the Scottish handed her over to Satan already! And Satan in the Marvelverse wouldn't want to make her a super'hero', he's not a fan of competition.

I dunno. Mecha Thatcher would be amusing at the very least. Besides, the Scottish hate pretty much every prime minister since the 1960s even the ones born in Scotland so it's not like she couldn't be brought back to bring Blair's soul to the devil.

...not going to lie, I just pictured a Mecha Thatcher: Ghost Rider, as some kind of emissary for the Devil who focuses specifically on the souls of British Politicians. Not quite Ironman, but close enough.

...if she's the size of the Iron Giant, can she have a giant motorbike as well?

It would have to be a very British motorcycle like the Royal Enfield Bullet. Otherwise, she'd be riding in a giant Mini.

And yes, I like the idea of a giant, mechanical Thatcher who brings souls of British politicians to the devil. The concept pleases me.

Just don't let Nicholas Cage try and play her in the movie adaptation.

 

[Mangod]

So, if I've understood the discussion so far, they're making Tony Stark step down as Iron Man so that they can replace him with a black, female Iron Woman instead.

Except, we already have a "Black Iron Man" (he's called War Machine, aka James Rhodes [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/2/26/War_Machine.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20151126025645]), AND we already have a "Female Iron Man" (that'd be Rescue, alias Virginia "Pepper" Potts [http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/9/93/Rescue_Earth-616.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110228202850]).

This just reminds me of my feelings on the whole Thor-debacle - why replace the original with a gender/raceswapped version like this, when you've already got a character that fills that niche? Couldn't they have sidelined Thor and used some other Asgardian instead, like Sif or Brunnhilde/Valkyrie? But no, it has to be Thor, so we'll make up some story about how Thor is suddenly a title and pass it on to some chick dying of cancer. Also, [unsolicited opinions on Israel].

 

[vallorn]

Firstly Mangod, I love that picture, good choice of avatar.

So, if I've understood the discussion so far, they're making Tony Stark step down as Iron Man so that they can replace him with a black, female Iron Woman instead.

Except, we already have a "Black Iron Man" (he's called War Machine, aka James Rhodes [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/2/26/War_Machine.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20151126025645]), AND we already have a "Female Iron Man" (that'd be Rescue, alias Virginia "Pepper" Potts [http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/9/93/Rescue_Earth-616.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110228202850]).

I like Rhodey's ark. Stark has fallen prey to his failings and Rhodey is standing in for him. Even he knows he's keeping the suit warm for when things sort themselves out. After that, everyone's impressed with how good he was and he ends up as a separate (and badass) character all of his own, with his own suit and not having to live up to being Iron Man's replacement or anything. Pepper has also had some really excellent parts more recently with her being the one to pull Tony's ass out of the fire a few times.

Also, [unsolicited opinions on Israel].

Fuck I had forgotten about that. What on earth possessed the writers to write that? I mean, besides the spirit of James Callaghan of course.

 

[EternallyBored]

The main thing putting me off the character is that being a 15 year old at MIT, there's obviously some pushy parenting type stuff going on in the background ("Oh no, Quentin chose to take his GCSEs at 9 years old, don't you know..."), and the fact that that sort of person tends not to be fun.

Why can't we have a hero with a poor conventional education but street smarts and a background working in a mechanics, who built a crude, steampunky suit of armour to survive on the streets? Maybe use it to fight the corrupt elite of whatever city it happens to be?

Marvel has tons of street level heroes who display nothing in the way of superscience intellect, but if you want to have someone hang with global and cosmic level heroes, "crude" isn't going to cut it. That's why she is at that level, because she is supposed to be hanging with the other high level teen heroes, the ones that can casually blow up city blocks, and go toe-to-toe with the adult heroes. You can't have a temporary Iron Man stand in subbing for street level heroics, if she was completely disconnected from Iron Man it may work, but Marvel already has tons of low level teams with street smarts and low tech armor. She wouldn't be able to team up with Ms. Marvel and the Miles Morales Spider-man if all she had was a crude Iron Man knockoff.

Especially with Civil War II which seems to be setting up the younger heroes as potentially giving the adult heroes the middle finger and ignoring their infighting to go form their own hero team, hopefully with Blackjack, and hookers.

Marvel science is fucked up, casual high school science fair projects include things like super efficient energy reactors, and building a controllable flying water bubble for a shark to ride around in. That's the kind of stuff teenagers build in the Marvel universe just to get into a good college.

I.E. This is what Ms. Marvel did just for the chance at getting a college scholarship:

Spoiler

That's fairly normal for Marvel, young Reed Richards and Hank Pym were equally as bullshit as kids.

 

[Neverhoodian]

A company that caters to a dying medium courts controversy in an attempt to further delay the inevitable. In other news, water is wet.

This probably would have been better received if it was Pepper Potts instead. Not only is she a well-established female character, but she's also skilled at using such suits as Rescue. Plus, her MCU iteration is hawt.

Rawr.​

 

[Bob_McMillan]

This has been known for quite sometime now, in the International Iron Man series.

What I didn't know and what I don't like is that she is supplanting Tony.

WHY?!

You have two Spider-men, like 5 Spider-women, two Thors, two Hulks, two Hawkeyes, and had two Novas for a bit. Does Tony being out of the picture somehow make this Riri William's Iron Woman more legitimate?

And while it does sound... weird to say that she is unnecessary when we have Miles, if you are going to add a character just for diversity, you'd think you would go all the way. Why not make her Indian, Malaysian, Egyptian, Hawaiian, whatever.

 

[EternallyBored]

A company that caters to a dying medium courts controversy in an attempt to further delay the inevitable. In other news, water is wet.

This probably would have been better received if it was Pepper Potts instead. Not only is she a well-established female character, but she's also skilled at using such suits as Rescue. Plus, her MCU iteration is hawt.

Rawr.​

One difference, she's not replacing Iron Man on the adult teams as far as I know, they seem to be setting her up to join the younger group that's been getting set up, at least eventually, after Civil War II at the latest.

Which disqualifies Pepper as she's an adult. It would be weird to form a super team with Miles Morales, Kamala Khan, Amadeus, and Vic, and then try to include Pepper Potts who's 20 years older than all of them.

The "she's the new Iron Man" stuff seems to be a publicity stunt meant to rile up people that aren't reading the comics, the comics themselves are setting her up as a new addition to the Iron Man group a la Rescue and War Machine, especially since War Machine just recently died. Tony himself isn't going anywhere, his arc seems to be mostly just him giving up the suit for a little bit for character focused stories, to get his shit straightened out after losing most of his company, duking it out and making up with Spiderman, finding out his family isn't what he thought it was, and spending an extended period of time being an evil psychopath that held an entire city hostage with super addictive nanomachine drugs. It's not like he's giving her Stark Industries and all his tech, likely just giving her enough to fix her suit so she can participate in the current event and then team up with the teen characters afterwards.

Although, yes, MCU Pepper is indeed still hot as hell, I'll give you that.

 

[Bobular]

You know a woman being Ironman actually is a pretty great idea. Bear with me for a moment.

It's great for hiding a secret identity. People in universe would assume the new Iron Man is a man, even if it's not Tony Stark. The suit can change the voice and there's no reason why the armour would have to appear feminine if piloted by a woman.

I actually quite like that idea, go all Samus on people.

Only issues I have is:

1) The usual would prefer they made a new character rather than piggy back on an existing character. Could be exactly the same as it currently is, just give her a more original name than Iron Woman. I have nothing against them making a clearly Iron Man inspired character as long as the story is taken in a new unique direction and they don't actually 'replace' an existing character.

2) That hair. I can not imagine getting all that hair into a helmet and still being able to see. Imagine the shots of her inside the suit like you get with Tony, hows that going to work? How do people with that sort of hairstyle ware helmets in real life?

3) Is Riri a name? I didn't think so, so I typed it into google and the only thing that seems to come up is news articles about the new Iron Woman so I'm thinking its not a real name but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Jux]

As much as I'm liking the more diverse cast, let's get more diverse writers and artists too.

As long as we're not hiring them solely for their skin color. Because that's still racism, and we don't want to be racist in any direction, right?

...Right?

Is this supposed to be some sort of 'gotchya'? Duh, the artists and writers should know what they're doing. That said, having a diverse writing and artist crew will allow for a more varied set of viewpoints (different lived experiences) for the characters to express themselves through, which should make for better comics.

 

[Jux]

Except, we already have a "Black Iron Man" (he's called War Machine, aka James Rhodes [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/2/26/War_Machine.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20151126025645]), AND we already have a "Female Iron Man" (that'd be Rescue, alias Virginia "Pepper" Potts [http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/9/93/Rescue_Earth-616.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110228202850]).

Uhh... you haven't been keeping up if you think Rhodes is still War Machine.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Snip

Interesting. It does make more sense when you put it that way. I don't usually read superhero comics, so I'm out of the loop on recent events. As you pointed out, this is making headlines partly for that reason.

As an aside, that's quite the recap for Tony Stark's recent escapades. Good to know things are as batshit crazy as ever in Marvel comic-land.

 

[Leg End]

Is this supposed to be some sort of 'gotchya'? Duh, the artists and writers should know what they're doing. That said, having a diverse writing and artist crew will allow for a more varied set of viewpoints (different lived experiences) for the characters to express themselves through, which should make for better comics.

I dunno. We're at the point again where your race/skin color is a determining factor, which is where we were to begin with.

Skin color isn't an indicator of the experiences of a person.

 

[votemarvel]

The what worried me was at the end of the article "her brain is maybe a little better than his."

And Miles and Silk both had better power-sets than Peter. Jane Foster can use her powers in ways that the original Thor never could.

So the issue for me is that we are getting legacy characters who can instantly do things better than their predecessors without having to earn that.

 

[Jux]

I dunno. We're at the point again where your race/skin color is a determining factor, which is where we were to begin with.

Skin color isn't an indicator of the experiences of a person.

I'd say it affects the likelihood of having certain experiences. Growing up white in the US, I've never experienced institutional racism, so if I were to write from the perspective of a black character, any portrayal of being subjected to such a thing wouldn't carry the same weight. I wouldn't be writing from a place of personal knowledge, so I'd likely be lacking the perspective needed to make it feel real.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

... yo, why's Misty Knight now Iron Man? And grew her arm back?

 

[Leg End]

I'd say it affects the likelihood of having certain experiences.

Not... really, unless we're actually getting back to some stereotypes.

Growing up white in the US, I've never experienced institutional racism, so if I were to write from the perspective of a black character, any portrayal of being subjected to such a thing wouldn't carry the same weight. I wouldn't be writing from a place of personal knowledge, so I'd likely be lacking the perspective needed to make it feel real.

So you're saying as a Latino I can't write a black character or a white character(which are about 90% of my characters) convincingly because I'm not either race?

But I can write a Latino with weight because I'm drawing from some place of "personal knowledge" that I inherently have because I'm Latino?

You just said it affected likelihood but then say it's an absolute.

 

[Jux]

I'd say it affects the likelihood of having certain experiences.

Not... really, unless we're actually getting back to some stereotypes.

I disagree, as evidenced by the next part that you quote.

Growing up white in the US, I've never experienced institutional racism, so if I were to write from the perspective of a black character, any portrayal of being subjected to such a thing wouldn't carry the same weight. I wouldn't be writing from a place of personal knowledge, so I'd likely be lacking the perspective needed to make it feel real.

So you're saying as a Latino I can't write a black character or a white character(which are about 90% of my characters) convincingly because I'm not either race?

Did I say that? Or is that just you reading what you want to see?

But I can write a Latino with weight because I'm drawing from some place of "personal knowledge" that I inherently have because I'm Latino?

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anyone had 'inherent' knowledge due to racial background. I said that people may be more likely to have certain life experiences due to their racial background.

You just said it affected likelihood but then say it's an absolute.

I said it increases the likelihood of having certain life experiences. What I think is absolute is that people with life experiences have an edge in conveying them through fiction prose. Not that they're the best, or that others can't do it passingly, but I feel personal experience isn't something that can be perfectly fabricated.

I hope this clears everything up

 

[sky14kemea]

testing

What are we testing?

 

[Leg End]

Did I say that? Or is that just you reading what you want to see?

Think I read too fast on that one but on a reread, the point basically stands because

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anyone had 'inherent' knowledge due to racial background. I said that people may be more likely to have certain life experiences due to their racial background.

when you just said

I wouldn't be writing from a place of personal knowledge, so I'd likely be lacking the perspective needed to make it feel real.

With a bit of implication that a black person can inherently do so, or at least a far higher chance of such.

I said it increases the likelihood of having certain life experiences. What I think is absolute is that people with life experiences have an edge in conveying them through fiction. Not that they're the best, or that others can't do it passingly, but I feel personal experience isn't something that can be perfectly fabricated.

Which basically makes sense. Apologies if this really sounds like rambling because I think 5AM does things to my brain.

I hope this clears everything up

I suppose it does but from all of this, I don't get how you say an afro of all things is a racial stereotype.

 

[Jux]

With a bit of implication that a black person can inherently do so, or at least a far higher chance of such.

Why yes, I do think a black person in the US would have a higher chance of having experienced institutional racism, and thus have the personal experience that would allow them to portray it more accurately. I'm not exactly sure why you take issue with this?

I suppose it does but from all of this, I don't get how you say an afro of all things is a racial stereotype.

I think you have me mistaken for someone else in the thread, I haven't made any comments about afros.