Say hello to the new Iron Woman

[happyninja42]

Heroes are not created by their powers or even their virtues. They are created by hardship and tragity. Tony was not Iron Man until he was captured and his mentor killed, Peter Parker was not the hero we know as spider till after his uncle's death and Steve Rogers had to endure many hardships before he was worthy of the role of Captian America. Now you expect me to believe some 15-year old who recreated an Iron Man suit will be a hero. How is one going to relate to some who has the world handed to them on a silver platter? Fifteen, at MIT, probably on a scholarship what an underdog /sarc. My second qualm is that even with her 2nd rate suit she has no combative experience whats so ever. She lacks the tool to go toe to toe with any sort of half way decent villin. I have no issue with the race/gender swap but this is just not well executed.

well its a good thing we know absolutely nothing about her outside of her name, where she goes to school, and something involving iron man armor

wouldn't want to rush to conclusions by filling in massive gaps with our own tainted preconceptions would we

You have a very valid point especially on the tragedy (most due to lack of knowledge) part, however, I have to hold firm on the combat argument. How is a 15-year-old who must have invested a lot of time to her pursuit of knowledge (which is a perfectly noble thing to do) going told hold up toe to toe with Iron Man's rich library of villains? I am concerned that the writers will nerf the villains to make her appear more powerful. I hope that Marvel makes me eat my words in a few months, I really do.

They'll probably do what they did with a middle aged alchoholic billionaire playboy philanthropist who had zero combat experience when he put on the Iron Man suit....she'll use superior technology to offset any physical limitations she might have, and use her mind to think her way out of difficult problems. Almost like the original Iron Man. Besides, there's nothing saying she didn't also take some combat training in school. That shit is ubiquitous, even stuff like Krav Maga and other seriously lethal styles. Hell I was one rank away from being a black belt by the time I was 12, and I played soccer and baseball, and was in the Boy Scouts. No reason she can't have multiple activities too.

 

[Trunkage]

It's a good thing that everybody knows women can't harness the powers of the god of thunder.

On a more serious note, it never ceases to amaze me how many complaints there were that Idris Elba as Heimdal and Thor, Goddess of Thunder were to people with actual Norse beliefs. I mean, apparently, it's okay to say that foolish primitive humans got everything wrong, as long as the gods are both white and male.

Also, nobody was really concerned that Stargate made Thor a three foot tall grey alien who liked to grope Sam Carter.

Oh shit, Heimdall was a girl in that. Run, before the "totally not sexist, but" folks find out!

Yes but Thor wasn't female in Stargate so it's all okay. If he was female there would have been hell to pay

 

[Trunkage]

Ok, well, passing out Iron Man suits isn't new (War Machine, Rescue aka Pepper Potts, Scarlet Spider) but why does Tony need to be...replaced? Let her be Iron Woman, give her a suit, even if its clearly pandering, but why does Tony need to stand down?

This isn't like Spider-Man or Ms. Marvel, so I'm not going to flip out like I usually do, but it is a bit on the nose with the clear history of over-progressiveness. Is she a lesbian too?

"?Why do we need Riri Williams we already have Miles?? that?s a weird thing to say. They?re individuals just like Captain America and Cyclops are individuals."

Then treat them like individuals and stop relying on established characters and aliases and let these new characters stand on their own. Id be down for more black/female/gay/trans characters, but let them be new original characters. I don't want a race/gender swapped mirror image of the Avengers, but that's what you are doing. Captain America (Though Falcon taking over I am actually 100% fine with cause he earned it and stood as his own character since the 70s), Iron Woman, Arab teen Ms.Marvel, black Spider-Man (Miles), X-23, female Thor (though learning that its Jane is more ok, but her refusal to cure her cancer is dumb). I'm guessing Hulk and Hawkeye are next.

When X-Men's original cast got replaced by an intentionally diverse new group, they were their own characters. They didn't turn Beast or Cyclops into women, or Jean black. They instead gave us Nightcrawler, Storm, and Colossus.

I'm fine with diversity, but I'm not fine with shitty writing and shitty character development, or lack of it.

Tony's being replaced is just like a new recipe for Coke. It'll taste better when the original comes back (because you know he is)

 

[Areloch]

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/fire_community.gif

It looks ok. She did stupid bullshit with tech that seems physically impossible? No wonder she's being pegged to pick up the Iron Man mantle.

Not a fan of the hair though. Women with long hair that wear helmets rarely works for me.

Hey now we can commonly argue the "politics" of these all day and like reasonable human beings.

But is you insult the hair there will be problems.

Joking but I say just make some nanomachine nonsense and call it a day.

Frankly, if it doesn't turn out her hair turns into the armor, I'll be disappointed.

 

[WolfThomas]

Heh. A lot of people in this thread don't know the Hulk is now Korean. Amadeus Cho is the new Hulk. This isn't so bad because he is basically the Tim Drake of Hulk sidekicks (Rick Jones being the Dick Grayson). He's been around for years as a precocious teen prodigy. Had a great team up series with Hercules. Was amazing in Savage Wolverine. And now is a really fun Hulk.

 

[Redd the Sock]

Why does every time this stuff comes up all I get is deja vu:

first it's Thor as a woman

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Thor_Odinson_(Earth-9997)

Then Cap was Evil all along

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/The_Crossing

after Falcon AKA Black Cap

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Isaiah_Bradley_(Earth-616)

Now it's black woman version of Iron Man

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Maiden_(Karen)_(Earth-9997)

which is an added diversity point from the white moan

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Antoinette_Stark_(Earth-2301)

Come on Marvel, if you're going to rip off yourself from 15 - 20 years ago at least go back to claiming Earth X was the future of 616. Fans would love the speculation, and it's an Inhumans heavy story. You like the Inhumans now right?

More OT: just another reminder why I'm not reading Marvel right now. Character shifts are usually dicey enough. Sorry. Iron Man isn't a character. Tony Stark is. I completely get why someone happy reading about Tony's adventures would be upset that someone else is shanghaiing the book. It's like going to a burger joint and being given a pizza. You might like both, but you came for one, and would have gone elsewhere if you wanted the other. It's why people gave up Green Lantern when Kyle Rayner took over, and why I gave up when Hal took it back. It's why no one read Thunderbolts when the "supervillains trying to do good" thing was cut for a supervillain fight club, or why no one remembers that group of Teen Titans that were alien teenagers instead of former sidekicks. We read what we like and aren't married to a brand name enough to hang around if you stick it haphazardly on something else.

This just comes off as rushed, and a lame attempt to keep the controversy up. It's making me miss the 90s where, while things could get derivative, at least there were attempts to make new characters with unique identities instead of characters that will likely never be seen as more than the token minority replacement for a white male hero. Remember Jim Rhodes wouldn't have his own identity of War Machine for a decade after replacing Tony for a bit in the 80s.

Me, just less to be guilty about not buying Marvel books, and freeing up the budget for Zenoscope, Dynamite, and Manga.

 

[vallorn]

Joking but I say just make some nanomachine nonsense and call it a day.

She does have the hair to be a proper Iron Lady though.

I still think Marvel bringing Mecha Thatcher back from the grave would be a fun storyline. It would probably be less crazy than some of their more recent stuff.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I mean they try this every time, but unless they're really willing to take the brand away from Tony Stark, its really just a PR move.

I mean really commit to the idea that Tony Stark is fucking done. Like they did with my favorite hero, The Question. Vic Sage fucking died and Rene Montoya took over.

 

[faefrost]

Oh, I thought they were talking about Rescue going full time. Oh well, invent new character, give character suit of armour - sounds fine to me.

That's the thing. They have done that. Several times. Yet Marvel in their attempts to be inclusive always fail to learn from past mistakes. They have put kids and teenagers in the armor before. Both in comics and a tv show. They all sucked. Further yeah we can tell this new character looks suspiciously like a Mary Sue. These days Stark is Marvel's A list primary character. The one that has permanent shelf space in the toy aisles. He is an interesting and horribly flawed character. A narcissistic alchoholic middle aged super genius with tons of emotional baggage and regrets. Doc McStuffin's here will not and never could be that without years of development. She might be interesting as another character. She might be interesting as a hero in her own suit. But don't give her his suit, his name his role. Bah!

And they did the handoff story near perfectly 20 years ago. Demon in a Bottle. It gave us Rhodey as Iron Man and eventually War Machine. It was fantastic.

What is said is Marvel does know how to create good new diverse characters and let them build an organic following. White Tiger, Silk, Ms. Marvel, The Young Avengers, The Runaways, all good developing characters. Spider Gwen fascinates fans. She may be unseating Harley Quinn as the most common female cosplay. That's how you do it right.

 

[mojoismydog77]

Heroes are not created by their powers or even their virtues. They are created by hardship and tragity. Tony was not Iron Man until he was captured and his mentor killed, Peter Parker was not the hero we know as spider till after his uncle's death and Steve Rogers had to endure many hardships before he was worthy of the role of Captian America. Now you expect me to believe some 15-year old who recreated an Iron Man suit will be a hero. How is one going to relate to some who has the world handed to them on a silver platter? Fifteen, at MIT, probably on a scholarship what an underdog /sarc. My second qualm is that even with her 2nd rate suit she has no combative experience whats so ever. She lacks the tool to go toe to toe with any sort of half way decent villin. I have no issue with the race/gender swap but this is just not well executed.

well its a good thing we know absolutely nothing about her outside of her name, where she goes to school, and something involving iron man armor

wouldn't want to rush to conclusions by filling in massive gaps with our own tainted preconceptions would we

You have a very valid point especially on the tragedy (most due to lack of knowledge) part, however, I have to hold firm on the combat argument. How is a 15-year-old who must have invested a lot of time to her pursuit of knowledge (which is a perfectly noble thing to do) going told hold up toe to toe with Iron Man's rich library of villains? I am concerned that the writers will nerf the villains to make her appear more powerful. I hope that Marvel makes me eat my words in a few months, I really do.

They'll probably do what they did with a middle aged alchoholic billionaire playboy philanthropist who had zero combat experience when he put on the Iron Man suit....she'll use superior technology to offset any physical limitations she might have, and use her mind to think her way out of difficult problems. Almost like the original Iron Man. Besides, there's nothing saying she didn't also take some combat training in school. That shit is ubiquitous, even stuff like Krav Maga and other seriously lethal styles. Hell I was one rank away from being a black belt by the time I was 12, and I played soccer and baseball, and was in the Boy Scouts. No reason she can't have multiple activities too.

Wasn't Iron Man trained by Captian America relatively early on in his superhero career? I hope the writers of the comic book are as skilled as you are.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

...why is it that new female superheroes get hit with the Mary Sue label straight out the gate? Fucking hell guys, wait for the first issue before you start swinging those pitchforks, at least then you could probably disguise it as actual criticism.

Anyway, neat, legacy hero, that works, still annoyed with Marvel after the whole 'Aha, Captain America is a Hydra Agent and it's not Mind Control! Well, it is Mind Control, but fuck you!' schtick, so, whatever. Hopefully this Ironman is better marketed than... THAT whole shit-show.

Also, disappointed she isn't an old woman. God dammit, where is my Iron Gran already???

 

[thepyrethatburns]

And that's just physical media, digital media is another wrinkle altogether, though getting accurate stats on that is almost impossible. Still, looking at Comixology's best sellers tab shows a predominance of Marvel titles.

It could just be that the shrinking physical comics media is simply converting to a digital format, like VHS, DVD, and the like before.

It could be but the problem with digital sales is that the readers can easily find a free comic site and bypass Comixology's "buy before you try" business policy. I stumbled onto two sites completely by accident. One did get shut down but the comments on the Facebook page had, at least, 4 more sites.

As such, digital media is a shaky thing to try to maintain the Diamond/Comixology model on.

On topic: My reaction as I posted on Facebook:

Sure, why not? If they can avoid treating it as a "diversity title" and actually write a good character such as Kamala Khan, Sooraya Qadir (who Marvel buried because she wasn't the "right type" of Muslim) or Miles Morales, it could work.

 

[Something Amyss]

Stargate Thor is the best Thor, and the inevitable exclusion of the little grey guy from the new movies saddens me a great deal.

The fact that Roland Emerich and Dean Devlin are in charge sadden me in general. It means pretty much all the good stuff about Stargate is going to be absent from these movies. I know they were behind the original, but they're not what made me a Stargate fan.

Ah well. I have my DVDs, like three ways to stream, and digital backups. It's not the end of the world. Though technically, it is the end of the SG-1 universe. >.>

Psst, you missed the second part of your spoiler tag.

Oh, son of a

Spoiler

tag! Ha! You thought I was going to swear, didn't you?

Yeah, I remember that bit from the end of the main Rebirth issue, I'm just wondering if there's any information on them actually expanding further from there. Even I know that putting Watchmen characters into the mainstream DC universe is severely missing the point (though I could accept the one you mentioned simply because of his unique circumstances).

I guess they have, but all I have is third-hand information, because of my lack of interest.

I think the New 52 was specifically geared to interest people like me, who were interested in comics but really didn't want to initially bother digging into the decades of history that was already present to try finding a decent place to jump in. So I was actually kind of a fan of most of the things that I read, and it annoys me that they're bringing the old continuity back into play just because it seems like they've run out of ideas for how to keep it going.

I don't know, I think they did a bad job of that, myself. People I know kept asking me about what led to X or Y, one of the more common ones being about the references to Barbara Gordon being unable to walk, and this other life they kept referencing. And, I mean, since most of my comic knowledge is not recent, it was easy to fill them in on most of them. It seems they didn't do a clean reboot, but rather they kept some elements and not others, and I think that was more of a problem in the long run.

I mean, I guess if all you were looking for was a jumping in point, that could make sense, but the continuity was kind of fucked already.

I think the Ultimate line had the better idea with a fresh start overall. It's just most of the writing was shit.

Yeah, that's it, inter-dimensional aliens aren't really aliens, right?

I'm not sure. I flunked inter-dimensional geography. Where is Asgard on the map again?

Wait, how did they manage to get Watchmen involved in this?

There's hints to it at the end of rebirth,. including the smiley-face pin that's become the signature of Watchmen.

It's worth noting that DC published Watchmen, so it's not exactly shocking.

Yes but Thor wasn't female in Stargate so it's all okay. If he was female there would have been hell to pay

Okay, so Heimdall can be female but not black, and Thor can be grey but not female...wow, this is complicated!

Also:

Tony's being replaced is just like a new recipe for Coke Slurm. It'll taste better when the original comes back (because you know he is)

Fixed that for you. >.>

But yeah, it's pretty much a given. If Riri is popular, she'll get her own series. If not, she'll either show up on rare occasion to fill out a fight or never be mentioned again. It's not really that big a deal.

 

[vallorn]

Honestly, I don't care enough to be angry or joyful, if they got the terrible writers who made She Thor or the new Squirrel Girl such a shit show I'll have some new material to laugh at, but I'm probably just not gonna buy the comics because I really enjoy Stark as a character, I love how this flawed genius has to exist alongside people who are pretty much apostles of human perfection (Steve Rogers is the main example here) and I adore his supporting characters like Pepper and Rhodey and how they can be willing to beat the crap out of him if he starts being an idiot (Superior Iron Man with Pepper turning against him). If she's well written and good I'll probably pick up some comics to see for myself but if we get ridiculous nonsense from the writers again I'm just gonna ignore it and wait for it to sink into obscurity.

Also, disappointed she isn't an old woman. God dammit, where is my Iron Gran already???

Iron Gran, you mean this?

 

[Something Amyss]

after Falcon AKA Black Cap

Isiah Bradley debuted something like 3.5 decades after Falcon first donned the Captain America outfit. He's hardly the derivative here.

The only difference is that people seem more upset about a black guy in Cap's suit now than they did during the civil rights movement.

...why is it that new female superheroes get hit with the Mary Sue label straight out the gate? Fucking hell guys, wait for the first issue before you start swinging those pitchforks, at least then you could probably disguise it as actual criticism.

I imagine most of the complaints come from people who don't really care about Iron Man, so the outrage needs to be sparked now when it's announced, because almost nobody will care when the first issue drops.

Also, disappointed she isn't an old woman. God dammit, where is my Iron Gran already???

I don't know, but I hope she's as cool as Agatha Fisty--One Punch Gran!

 

[shrekfan246]

I don't know, I think they did a bad job of that, myself. People I know kept asking me about what led to X or Y, one of the more common ones being about the references to Barbara Gordon being unable to walk, and this other life they kept referencing. And, I mean, since most of my comic knowledge is not recent, it was easy to fill them in on most of them. It seems they didn't do a clean reboot, but rather they kept some elements and not others, and I think that was more of a problem in the long run.

I mean, I guess if all you were looking for was a jumping in point, that could make sense, but the continuity was kind of fucked already.

I suppose I should clarify, "someone who was interested in getting into comics and already had more-than-passing-knowledge of the biggest stories that were for whatever reason kept around". XD

I'm not sure. I flunked inter-dimensional geography. Where is Asgard on the map again?

Last I checked it was about five light years between Hades and Next Tuesday, just north of Nordryggdrasil.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

Also, disappointed she isn't an old woman. God dammit, where is my Iron Gran already???

Iron Gran, you mean this?

We can't have Thatcher as the new Iron Gran, the Scottish handed her over to Satan already! And Satan in the Marvelverse wouldn't want to make her a super'hero', he's not a fan of competition.

 

[vallorn]

Also, disappointed she isn't an old woman. God dammit, where is my Iron Gran already???

Iron Gran, you mean this?

We can't have Thatcher as the new Iron Gran, the Scottish handed her over to Satan already! And Satan in the Marvelverse wouldn't want to make her a super'hero', he's not a fan of competition.

I dunno. Mecha Thatcher would be amusing at the very least. Besides, the Scottish hate pretty much every prime minister since the 1960s even the ones born in Scotland so it's not like she couldn't be brought back to bring Blair's soul to the devil.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

Also, disappointed she isn't an old woman. God dammit, where is my Iron Gran already???

Iron Gran, you mean this?

We can't have Thatcher as the new Iron Gran, the Scottish handed her over to Satan already! And Satan in the Marvelverse wouldn't want to make her a super'hero', he's not a fan of competition.

I dunno. Mecha Thatcher would be amusing at the very least. Besides, the Scottish hate pretty much every prime minister since the 1960s even the ones born in Scotland so it's not like she couldn't be brought back to bring Blair's soul to the devil.

...not going to lie, I just pictured a Mecha Thatcher: Ghost Rider, as some kind of emissary for the Devil who focuses specifically on the souls of British Politicians. Not quite Ironman, but close enough.

...if she's the size of the Iron Giant, can she have a giant motorbike as well?

 

[Catnip1024]

The main thing putting me off the character is that being a 15 year old at MIT, there's obviously some pushy parenting type stuff going on in the background ("Oh no, Quentin chose to take his GCSEs at 9 years old, don't you know..."), and the fact that that sort of person tends not to be fun.

Why can't we have a hero with a poor conventional education but street smarts and a background working in a mechanics, who built a crude, steampunky suit of armour to survive on the streets? Maybe use it to fight the corrupt elite of whatever city it happens to be?