Skyward Sword

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Keith K

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Oct 29, 2009
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There are things I like about it. Mostly the same things I've enjoyed about every Zelda. Definitely doesn't feel like a game from 2011. The whole motion plus aspect can fuck right off. Ultimately it's exactly the same as Twilight Princess with the ability to waggle diagonally. Pointless.

Nowhere near as good as reviews would lead me to believe. Zelda games have their own scale between 9.5 and 10 where 9.5 is fucking garbage and 10 is a successful rehash of the previous game.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Sean951 said:
Yup, almost the entire industry is scared to make fun of Zelda. I'm sure that's it.
Not sure if you got the point, but ignored it for snark, missed the point and legitimately think that's what was said, or got the point and decided to knock down a strawman instead.

itsmeyouidiot said:
The "flaws" that Mr. Crosshaw mentioned aren't flaws at all, because I did not notice them and they did not hinder my enjoyment in any way whatsoever.
Flaws neither require one specific person to notice them nor specifically hinder enjoyment.

Amazingly, a lot of people will look at flaws and say "so what, I still like the game." That doesn't mean they're not there.

Ariyura said:
You learn to turn the other cheek and move on. I loved Catherine but I can still enjoy Yahtzee's review of it. His review in no way is going to stop me from loving the game. Take it with pure entertainment value instead of a personal attack.
That's the thing, though. If you don't know Yahtzee's shtick by now, you either have some serious disability or have been living under a rock for many years. You shouldn't need to turn the other cheek. This isn't even the first Zelda game he's reviewed in this style, let alone the first game. Complaints that Yahtzee is "mean" are just ridiculous. He was "mean" before this review and will be "mean" after it. Whining about it specifically because he doesn't like is asinine.

I do agree with the whole "take it as entertainment, not a personal attack" thing. I just seriously wonder how people, especially regulars here can not have picked up on the pattern.

"If you don't have anything nice to say...." I think that may have been the most telling it. I don't think Zelda fans want a critique, even from serious reviewers. I suspect having issue with not having nice things to say is endemic of the whole "tell me my shit don't stink!" Syndrome.

But I do seriously wonder who has clicked on this review and thought "I'm sure THIS game will get Yahtzee's love...OMG! HOW COULD YOU, YAHTZEE?"

And yet, in the initial comments thread, we see more than a couple people like that, and this thread seems to have similar context.
 

Angry Camel

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Mar 21, 2011
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These were more or less the exact thoughts I had going through my head as I played Skyward Sword. I went and tried Twilight Princess again just for comparison, and haven't changed back. Collecting the tears of light is irritating, but dowsing is just so flow-breaking for me.

Skyward Sword's obsession with motion controls is really grating, especially for equiping items. Instead of just pressing a direction on the Dpad for any three items, you have to hold B and point at the one you want every single time. Having to re-centre the aim frequently is a pain. The throwing/rolling controls feel awkward.

I have no reason to really finish this game, much less defend it.
 

DELETETHISACCOUNT

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Jan 9, 2011
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I've really liked the Zelda franchise since I played LTTP on SNES. It's hard for me to pick a favorite in the series, but I must say I completely agree about Skyward Sword being shit. I was very excited when the game was released (especially since I managed to stay away from any previews of the game), but I found that I really hated the game. Other than the pirate level, it had nothing in it that was that enjoyable for me. The only two Zelda games other than SS that I didn't care for were Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.

I may not like Skyward Sword, but I am happy that so many people are enjoying it. If you enjoy it, great! Just don't be a dick when other people don't like it too. It shouldn't change how you feel about it.

I don't necessarily agree that all Zelda games are the same though. While in a general structural sense they are, a more in-depth look reveals that many of them feel very different from one another. This isn't the case for every Zelda title (Twilight Princess), but I think titles like Wind Waker and Majora's Mask feel totally different from anything else in the series.

I think the Zelda series needs a major overhaul at this point. There has been some talk about Retro Studios developing a Zelda title. That could be really fantastic.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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C117 said:
Oh so true. Even though I personally liked Skyward Sword (at least enough to plow right through it), all the criticism Yahtzee brought up is perfectly valid, and just goes to show how the whole game feels quite padded, while at the same time being virtually linear. And this comes from a person (me) who could be quite aptly labeled a Zelda-fanboy.

Good work, Mr. Croshaw. Carry on, and happy new year.
orangeban said:
Huh, I enjoyed it, he didn't, we have different tastes and expectations from games. That's what it comes down to, that's what it *always* comes down to. Nothing else to really say.
Akichi Daikashima said:
You know what, I liked Skyward Sword, but I would never go to such lengths to defend it,
I mean, I have a friend is a Wii fanboy, and yet, he never gets angry at Yahtzee for his constant Wii bashing in his reviews.

I am also an assassin's crred fan, and even though Yahtzee says that the games are groaning W/ unnecessary s***, I still respect his opinion, and I never feel the need to rage at him.

*I did only play about 90 minutes of Skyward Sword BTW(it was at my friend's house)
Thank you guys (and anyone else who posted similar). It's really heartening to see people who say "I like it, but..." but either Yahtzee has a point and I won't pretend the game is without flaw, or but I don't need to attack him.

Specifically Akichi's post, since I like AssCreed as well. While I LOVE LOVE LOVE the series, I am prone to find flaws in it. And while I don't always agree with Yahztee (Creed vs zombies!), I'm also not going to pretend problems with the games don't exist or cry foul when he "attacks" them. In part because the criticism is legit, and in part because these reviews are intended to be humourous. Even if you don't like them, it doesn't change the intent.

Well, unless he actually went out thinking "lollllll, I'm going to make the Zelda fanboys cry today....*cue Zero Punctuation music*"

But it's weird people only seem to see malice in that game THEY like, not before or after.

Or, as I said in the comment thread for the ZP itself:

"But Yahtzee, doesn't NEED to change things up. Now go review and be sure to mock it for its sameness and lack of innovation!"

I obviously tailored it in that situation to the bit from the beginning of the video, but the same thing applies pretty much everywhere. Don't touch , but ROFL I love the way you handed <game I don't like>'s ass to it!

It's like petting a dog for barking at everyone, but acting all surprised and mad when that same dog barks at that cute girl you like.

Sorry for length of post.
 

kuolonen

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Best part about Yahtzee reviewing Wii games is the state of comment section afterwards. I never get tired of it.
 

DTWolfwood

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Oct 20, 2009
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Keep doing what your doing Yahtzee! and Happy New Years to you too!

Thanks for giving me the ability to step back and look at a game outside the realm of fanboyism.

Like how my love for ME2 is completely irrational! or DA2 for that matter XD
 

Yosarian2

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itsmeyouidiot said:
There's a common saying where I come from, it goes something like: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." Constructive criticism is one thing, but spewing hatred and bile is another thing entirely, and it certainly isn't comedy.

Imagine that I verbally ripped everything you hold dear to shreds. How exactly would anyone in their right mind find that funny?
He's...a critic. Do you really think that movie critics or video games critics or restaurant critics should "not say anything at all" if they have a bad opinion of something? I think you're kind of missing the point of what a critic is supposed to be.
 

SilverUchiha

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jackpackage200 said:
I think yahtzee and i are the only people who hated this game. The game was boring and not fun at all.

EDIT: What sucks is that my friends have been giving me shit for not liking it
I haven't played it yet, but after this video I don't intend to. I've never found Zelda games (on the whole) to be that entertaining as most other people have. Hell, there are only three Zelda games I've enjoyed enough to play more than once, "Four Swords," "Majora's Mask," and "Twilight Princess." And I still prefer the first two over the latter. At least LoZ:tFSA and LoZ:MM changed up the game play a bit with mask oriented puzzles or a four-link team.

But Ocarina bores me. Twilight Princess can be fun, but not in the same way as the others. Skyward Sword looked interesting at first, but if the exploration has been shot in the foot, I don't see much point other than to see how the new villain plays out, and I can just watch a let's play for that.
 

Nate-ndo

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Before I watched his review, I told my girlfriend that Yahtzee was going to hate Skyward Sword, and his chief complaints would be motion controls, the graphics, the game structure, and the fact that it has the same ur-narrative (save Zelda). I said he then usually goes, "Look how mad Nintendo fanboys are! I must be correct!" Either this is some sort of clever meta-criticism where Yahtzee makes the same review over and over, or he's become more predictable than a Nintendo game.

That said I fully respect anyone and everyone's right to dislike a game that I personally enjoyed, so hate away.

p.s. I love the reviews faulting the controls--I played 43 hours and didn't have a single misread action or injury due to lag. I'd love to know how this is possible if they're even half as terrible as claimed (here, GameSpot, etc.)
 

SilverUchiha

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SPOILERS

cthulhumythos said:
one of my main complaints is that about 80% of this game is just busywork. wanna go to the water dungeon? go backtrack to the first dungeon and get some water at the end. there was simply way too much retracing. also the lack of ganon. i was really hoping he was behind it all, because at this point i laugh whenever that happens.
Why? I think it was kind of refreshing Ganon has little to do with the events of this game at all. From what I've read about it, this game is actually his origin, in a sense of speaking. Check this wiki article if you don't believe me. http://www.zeldawiki.org/Demise#Background

Granted, I'm a little annoyed that this makes Ganon less special. It's more like he's a pawn in Demise's grand plan or something. Again, I like that we see what causes Ganon to exist, but I don't like what it is. I was hoping something a little more... i dunno... crazy.

interestingly, my favorite zelda games (up to this point) have been the ones to break away from the formula like wind waker and majora's mask. speaking of which, is Majora's Mask coming to the 3ds? i'd be curious to see a zp of it, as it is one of the stranger titles in the series. as in, it has way more atmosphere* than the other ones. or not, because there are hells of the other titles out there to review, and there's been like, what, 4 zelda reviews already?
No. I feel like the remake of Ocarina of Time for the 3DS was a terribly stupid idea and to make Majora's Mask for the 3DS would be an equally stupid idea, perhaps more so. We (as in Yahtzee, myself, and probably many others) already feel like Zelda doesn't innovate enough to be truly amazing like the fanboys say. Remaking Ocarina only reinforces that notion as that is the game that seems to be copy-pasted the most. And while Majora's Mask was, indeed, unique, to remake it would only undermine that uniqueness. I would like to see a similar unique title brought to the modern console generation, but I don't want the same thing every time. And I especially don't want to be charged $40 for what amounts to nothing more than a graphical upgrade. (Yes, I'm looking at you too, Halo Anniversary... even though I let that slide because that was literally made for the fans and nothing else).

But that's my two cents on the matter. Take what you will out of it.
 

SilverUchiha

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SPOILERS

cthulhumythos said:
one of my main complaints is that about 80% of this game is just busywork. wanna go to the water dungeon? go backtrack to the first dungeon and get some water at the end. there was simply way too much retracing. also the lack of ganon. i was really hoping he was behind it all, because at this point i laugh whenever that happens.
Why? I think it was kind of refreshing Ganon has little to do with the events of this game at all. From what I've read about it, this game is actually his origin, in a sense of speaking. Check this wiki article if you don't believe me. http://www.zeldawiki.org/Demise#Background

Granted, I'm a little annoyed that this makes Ganon less special. It's more like he's a pawn in Demise's grand plan or something. Again, I like that we see what causes Ganon to exist, but I don't like what it is. I was hoping something a little more... i dunno... crazy.

interestingly, my favorite zelda games (up to this point) have been the ones to break away from the formula like wind waker and majora's mask. speaking of which, is Majora's Mask coming to the 3ds? i'd be curious to see a zp of it, as it is one of the stranger titles in the series. as in, it has way more atmosphere* than the other ones. or not, because there are hells of the other titles out there to review, and there's been like, what, 4 zelda reviews already?
No. I feel like the remake of Ocarina of Time for the 3DS was a terribly stupid idea and to make Majora's Mask for the 3DS would be an equally stupid idea, perhaps more so. We (as in Yahtzee, myself, and probably many others) already feel like Zelda doesn't innovate enough to be truly amazing like the fanboys say. Remaking Ocarina only reinforces that notion as that is the game that seems to be copy-pasted the most. And while Majora's Mask was, indeed, unique, to remake it would only undermine that uniqueness. I would like to see a similar unique title brought to the modern console generation, but I don't want the same thing every time. And I especially don't want to be charged $40 for what amounts to nothing more than a graphical upgrade. (Yes, I'm looking at you too, Halo Anniversary... even though I let that slide because that was literally made for the fans and nothing else).

But that's my two cents on the matter. Take what you will out of it.
 

2xDouble

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I have a serious, non-Zelda-related question, Mr. Croshaw. For your Wii sensor bar, are you using the wired version or the wireless?

I've never experienced laggy controls on the Wii unless the remote had a low battery, so I find it curious you're encountering them so regularly across several Wii game reviews. I have to assume there might be another issue in play. If we can identify it and bring it to their attention, perhaps Nintendo can correct it in this or the next generation.
 

cthulhumythos

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SilverUchiha said:
SPOILERS

cthulhumythos said:
one of my main complaints is that about 80% of this game is just busywork. wanna go to the water dungeon? go backtrack to the first dungeon and get some water at the end. there was simply way too much retracing. also the lack of ganon. i was really hoping he was behind it all, because at this point i laugh whenever that happens.
Why? I think it was kind of refreshing Ganon has little to do with the events of this game at all. From what I've read about it, this game is actually his origin, in a sense of speaking. Check this wiki article if you don't believe me. http://www.zeldawiki.org/Demise#Background

Granted, I'm a little annoyed that this makes Ganon less special. It's more like he's a pawn in Demise's grand plan or something. Again, I like that we see what causes Ganon to exist, but I don't like what it is. I was hoping something a little more... i dunno... crazy.

interestingly, my favorite zelda games (up to this point) have been the ones to break away from the formula like wind waker and majora's mask. speaking of which, is Majora's Mask coming to the 3ds? i'd be curious to see a zp of it, as it is one of the stranger titles in the series. as in, it has way more atmosphere* than the other ones. or not, because there are hells of the other titles out there to review, and there's been like, what, 4 zelda reviews already?
No. I feel like the remake of Ocarina of Time for the 3DS was a terribly stupid idea and to make Majora's Mask for the 3DS would be an equally stupid idea, perhaps more so. We (as in Yahtzee, myself, and probably many others) already feel like Zelda doesn't innovate enough to be truly amazing like the fanboys say. Remaking Ocarina only reinforces that notion as that is the game that seems to be copy-pasted the most. And while Majora's Mask was, indeed, unique, to remake it would only undermine that uniqueness. I would like to see a similar unique title brought to the modern console generation, but I don't want the same thing every time. And I especially don't want to be charged $40 for what amounts to nothing more than a graphical upgrade. (Yes, I'm looking at you too, Halo Anniversary... even though I let that slide because that was literally made for the fans and nothing else).

But that's my two cents on the matter. Take what you will out of it.
yeah, i know the whole ganon being the final boss thing happens way too often, but that's kind of whole reason i enjoy it. it's pretty much become a running gag. also, this is the second time i've been called out for this. i wasn't using it as constructive criticism, i was being silly; however i made the mistake of assuming silliness would be understood as such, when on the internet more ridiculous things have been said in seriousness. it also probably didn't help that i wedged it between two actual complaints.

also, while i respect your opinion on the remake matter, you didn't have to distance yourself from people who enjoy the series by calling them "fanboys" it's simply derogatory and condescending.
 

Stavros Dimou

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I loved the Zelda series in the past,but the way the series is turning the last years is not of my liking.Yatzhee is doing well criticizing the series and I'm not a hater for saying that,actually I'm a Zelda fan that thinks that Nintendo should hear some nasty words from a popular publication in case they start caring for player's feedback more.

I got in to the series playing Ocarina of Time at its time in Nintendo 64,and after that I played Majora's Mask.
Ocarina of Time was a phenomenal game for its age ecxelling in all departments like graphics,music,gameplay and story.But Ocarina of Time spoiled me.I thought that innovations like that where a usual thing for the series,but I was wrong.
When the next game of the series,Majora's Mask came out I was even more impressed with the series and I liked the turn the series where getting at.

Majora's mask too had pretty decent graphics for its age,very good soundtrack,and gameplay-wise it had lots of rpg elements.The number and quality of the sidequests where greately improved,and the AI for the npcs was outstanding for its era.Npcs had had routines and did different things in different times of the day as we see in Skyrim.

The tone of these 2 N64 games was very dark I say.
In Ocarina of Time we watched persons dying,villages getting burned,and there was even a zombie attack at Hyrule's Castle Town!
In Majora's Mask we see people dying too,being cursed,and of course there is always this moon above you that is about to fall of,and you have that feel that the lives of the people in this world are actually depended on you.


In a frame of 3-4 years I only played these 2 Zelda games and I have come to expect similar experiences and standards from these series in the later games..
But Nintendo seemed to kept the things I wasn't really interested for,and dropped what made these games special for me.

Zelda games after the two N64 games changed much:​

*The stories of the newer games doesn't follow the events of the two N64 games.
They aren't sequels,they just have the same looks and names for the characters and some of the same game mechanics.So the Link I play as in Wind Waker or Twilight Princess has nothing to do with the Link I play as in OoT and MM.That's bad.Because I loved Link from the N64 games,and he is my favourite Link ever.

*The series gradually lost their more mature and dark tone.
I feel that newer Zelda games are more "kid friendly" than past ones and this is for a variety of reasons.The art direction and color pallete is more cartoony/anime than ever,and curses and death is being wiped out of the series.It feels more like kid's game than a teen's game.

*Nintendo stopped careing about graphics.
Yeah gameplay might be more important than graphics,but still graphics are an important factor than can make as enjoy games more or less. Super Nintendo was able to render better graphics than Sega Mega Drive,N64 could render better graphics than Playstation,and Gamecube could render better graphics than PS2,but Wii broke the tradition and its graphics aren't acceptable by today's standards.Harsh but true.

*Gameplay was dumbed.
Yeah,I know that some Zelda fans will tell me "It was the n64 games that broke Zelda gameplay and became more complex!Link's Awakening was as simple as Skyward's Sword and it was fine!".But dear fan let me inform you that Link's Awakening was simplier at a time that games in general where much simplier than that.Ocarina of Time brought a variety of brand new mechanics and some of them have been kept until today as they where,others where simplified,and some others completely vanished from the series.None of them was improved.

*Less side-quests,nerfed A.I.,less secrets,less unique items,and less easter eggs.
When I talk about the number and quality of side-quests in Majora's Mask,or the A.I. interactions of the npcs,the usual reply I have come to expect from Zelda fanboys is that "Zelda is not an RPG!It doesn't need AI for its npcs or Side-Quests!"
Well my dear friend you are only partly right.Zeldas are being described as "action adventure" games by Nintendo currently,but back in older days there was a time when Zelda was described as an action rpg game by many players AND magazines.Actually there where huge arguments on wether Zelda is a pure RPG series,or an Action Adventure series with considerable amounts of RPG features.The only things that Zelda was missing to be called "RPG" by everybody was that the player wouldn't gain XP points from monsters and that combat wasn't turn-based.Everything else that RPGs had was there: An open explorable world,npcs who do things in the world and give quests,gradual item discovery,gradual empowerment of the character's abilities,dungeons,monsters, swords, magic, caves.. You need to learn that ZELDA was the game that actually FOUNDED the term "Action RPG".
Before Zelda all RPG games where turn-based and most of them linear. If you can play Skyrim today and go wherever you want and have real-time combat it's because of Zelda.
So give a rest to the argument "Zelda doesn't need side quests or AI for its npcs" or I will eat you!
So after this small history lesson let's go back to the topic: Majora's Mask had a big (for its time) number of side-quests.I loved that.And I was actually expecting an imrpovement in both number and quality of side-quests in the next games.
But gradually their number was lessened,and their importance was minimized.Twilight Princess had less side-quests than the fingers of my arms,and where completely unimportant.
Along with that the actual content was minimized too.Less items,less easter eggs,less things to discover in general,which leads to less hours of gameplay.




These points considerably changed how I view the series.
Modern Zelda games lack the darkness,the maturity,the depth,the graphics,and the gameplay I loved and had come to expect.Don't wander if you find that most Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask fans, when they are not playing Ocarina of Time 3D they play games like Skyrim over Skyward Sword.Zelda was the first series to do some great things but in the course of history the franchise abandoned some of the things that made it special and only kept some known story events that by now are cliche and dull.While Zelda was leaving what invented behind (Action RPG Legacy) other series that started much later than Zelda,have taken Zelda's legacy and advanced it in a state that it surpasses the orignal series who founded the legacy.
From the first week of Skyrim's release a mod that allowes you to play as Link came out,and modders are working on bringing all kind of Zelda elements and items in... Skyrim.
The master sword,the hero's shield,Majora's Moon,even Gorons and Zoras are imported to Skyrim.
Let this be a lesson to Nintendo that ignoring their hardcore fans and abandoning winner gameplay formulas they invented themselves is a bad thing.
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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Mr. Omega said:
On the motion controls thing: just him complaining.
It's a fair complaint, though. It's like video game companies sat down an all agreed that they need to find a way to make the age-old "It's the controller's fault" complaint that sore losers make into a valid gripe. Well good for them I guess, we've created games in which it is genuinely the controller's fault if you lose... now can we go back to the control method that just works, please?
 

Edhellen

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Sep 17, 2011
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Did you even look at Links face when he fought Ghirahim the last time? Did you just ignore the hate in Links eyes?
I couldn't ever look at Link's face without laughing. I mean, how could you possibly take that seriously? He looks just like a creepy flanderization of the late Michael Jackson. It's truly an astonishing achievement that they went with a bright cartoonish style and *still* managed to invoke the uncanny valley.

Anyway, I didn't finish the game because I literally could not play the harp strumming section. Where you have to wave your arm back and forth in rhythm? I did the postman's side quest in Majora's Mask first try, and I spent three hours waving my arm back and forth (and giving myself quite the shoulder injury in the process that still hasn't gone away) with no effect. I couldn't do it. Did anyone have as hard of a time with this as I did?

It's probably for the best I stopped playing at that point anyway: From what I've read about the game, shortly after this they bring back the stupid "run away from invincible enemies who can one-hit-kill you" from Phantom Hourglass. I can hardly imagine anything less fun.

By the way, just to let all my fellow Fi-haters know, you can use an action replay code to completely remove her from the game. And it is awesome.
 

Arppis

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I never understood all the hate for Wind Waker. It was the most insteresting Zelda game after Link to the Past. And I haven't been really interested about Zelda game since. As someone who has only tried the newer games, they seem really "samey". Windwaker didn't have that for one. It felt pretty unique.
 

Mangue Surfer

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Arppis said:
I never understood all the hate for Wind Waker. It was the most insteresting Zelda game after Link to the Past. And I haven't been really interested about Zelda game since. As someone who has only tried the newer games, they seem really "samey". Windwaker didn't have that for one. It felt pretty unique.
There isn?t much to do besides going around. Back in the Brutal legends zero punctuation Yahtzee Said that open world sandbox games make things less focused in other words, slop games. His opinion certainly changed, but what not changed is the fact that the open world sandbox factor make the games more slop and WW is the most sandboxist Zelda game.
 

angel85

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I got Skyward Sword for Christmas, so I only just started it, but for the most part I already agree with your review. The motion controls using that stupid motion plus make the game more tiring to play, limiting my sessions, and that FUCKING BIRD is so annoying to control! Having to hold the stupid controller level so I can steer the thing like a fucking boat is only slightly less annoying than having to re-calibrate the stupid thing every 5 minutes. This game would have been better if there were options for a classic control scheme, or even regular motion controls, OR EVEN A FUCKING LEFT HAND TOGGLE!

Motion plus is a failed experiment, good in theory and sporting very nice technology, but tedious and tiring to use in practice, I hope future games flatly ignore the stupid thing and allows it to fade into obscurity like that wii heart monitor.