With the world seriously overpopulated as it is, and considering how many unwanted children there are, I would say that having children (or at least more than one or two) is selfish.
so....Not having children=Selfish?
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Who has ever said this? I can only see this argument if you are in a committed relationship with someone who wants kids, but even then it's a long shot argument if you ask me. I have never heard anyone put forward this argument. In fact, with population issues, I've heard the exact opposite, though I don't agree with that either.
I believe it has to do with your Genome. Your family expects you to have children because, if you don't, your family tree ends with you. If you do, then you pass the genome down another generation, and (as far as evolution is concerned) you are no longer important. By not having children, you are actively harming your genetic line, and betraying the fundamental core of evolution itself that made us what we are.Vault101 said:
Of course, that only applies to smart people. The stupid people are being actively selfish BY having children. They are ensuring that their flawed DNA continues.
Also, I am assuming that you are smart because, well, you sound smart in your OP (and because you have often been a voice of intelligence and interest in other threads). Therefore, I hope that you do choose to have at least one child - because your DNA is important to the continued evolution of the human race.
I think we're fine for populations, since there are almost 7 BILLION of us, I don't think populations dips are going to be much of a problem. Also, I choose not to have a kid (at least at the moment) because I simply don't trust myself to have one. Neither am I confident or responsible enough to raise a kid. So therefore I am being unselfish by choosing not to have a kid.
It's a subject that hits close to home-- married for a couple of decades (married right out of college), no kids. To a certain extent, my wife's health precluded them, but honestly we just didn't want them. Not out of some hatred of children, for crying aloud, yet we'd get that "Don't you like children?" My wife taught flute to hundreds of kids over the years, kept in contact with them as they went off to college, was a terrific aunt to our nieces who facebooked her all the time with questions they didn't want to ask Mom about, etc. She worked for a non-profit that (among other things) provided free music concerts to the local schools. And she volunteered at animal shelters.
And yet, we'd still get the "Until you have children, your life isn't complete" B.S. Look, we always felt that the default state should be to NOT have kids. It's a HUGE commitment, and yet I've seen so many couples dive into it with less thought than they'd put into getting a dog (which is a huge commitment, too-- but microscopic next to children). Unless you absolutely positively want to have kids and are willing to basically put everything in your life on hold for a few years (the first few are all consuming), imho you should wait until you can shoulder those requirements.
The human race isn't in danger of dying out. When it comes to children, the only thing selfish is having them without putting them first. And if you have kids out of a sense of social obligation (or parental pressure...oh, boy.), that's exactly what you're doing.
And yet, we'd still get the "Until you have children, your life isn't complete" B.S. Look, we always felt that the default state should be to NOT have kids. It's a HUGE commitment, and yet I've seen so many couples dive into it with less thought than they'd put into getting a dog (which is a huge commitment, too-- but microscopic next to children). Unless you absolutely positively want to have kids and are willing to basically put everything in your life on hold for a few years (the first few are all consuming), imho you should wait until you can shoulder those requirements.
The human race isn't in danger of dying out. When it comes to children, the only thing selfish is having them without putting them first. And if you have kids out of a sense of social obligation (or parental pressure...oh, boy.), that's exactly what you're doing.
I'm pretty confident I know what's going on inside my head, and I can't say I've heard my brain tell me these things. Ever. At all. In fact, childbearing has some really negative connotations in my head, even when it's about other people having kids and I should be happy for them.Sleekit said:
It's almost like there's other ways to live a fulfilling life.
I was thinking about making a well thought-out, eloquent post about how aging, shrinking populations, and culture groups disappearing are massive problems, but instead:
We, as a species, are fucked. Our more developed societies have pretty much given up on existing, and are quickly being supplanted by groups coming from places where indoctrination is the rule, not the exception. Our own laziness, self-interest, and, funny enough, reasoning skills have doomed the species.
We, as a species, are fucked. Our more developed societies have pretty much given up on existing, and are quickly being supplanted by groups coming from places where indoctrination is the rule, not the exception. Our own laziness, self-interest, and, funny enough, reasoning skills have doomed the species.
Actually I heard this argument recently a couple of months back when my grandmother was trying to convince my older sister to have a kid with her recent partner.
I believe this was one of the arguments that came up at some point - that it's selfish not to.
I CAN understand the point - it's choosing to avoid a certain lifestyle choice that once you've chosen there's no going back on - but once you're done - hey! You've just created life, that's a good thing, right?
In the end I believe it is down to the (potential) parent but really if anything in most first world country's we really do need to have more kids - so actually doing it would help quite a bit! Either way, it's not selfish -really- just... choosing not to be overly charitable either.
I believe this was one of the arguments that came up at some point - that it's selfish not to.
I CAN understand the point - it's choosing to avoid a certain lifestyle choice that once you've chosen there's no going back on - but once you're done - hey! You've just created life, that's a good thing, right?
In the end I believe it is down to the (potential) parent but really if anything in most first world country's we really do need to have more kids - so actually doing it would help quite a bit! Either way, it's not selfish -really- just... choosing not to be overly charitable either.
That's one more reason for me not to have kids. I'm sick of this nationalism lark.Regnes said:
OT: Selfish or not, who gives a fuck? Be selfish if you want to be, what is anyone going to do, have kids for you?
If it's selfish because you destabilise your country then it doesn't matter, it isn't your responsibility to keep your country stable; those in government want power and get the responsibility that comes with it, not you.
If it's selfish because you don't want the stress or hassle then it doesn't matter, being unhappy isn't something to aim for. "Oh lord! You want to enjoy yourself, how terrible."
It isn't your biological duty to churn out kids, it isn't your societal duty, it isn't an economic or political duty, it's a fucking choice. People need to stop worrying about all this 'should' bullshit and live a little.
I think this idea is freaking stupid.
But still, I think you're portraying selfishness in a poor light. Selfishness is good if used in the right context. In the end, you will need to take care of number one.
Selfishness is only looked upon because as a child you were taught that it was bad to not help your friends and shit. It's only when you grow up you realize that helping them all the time can lead to some serious social problems and conflicts. Sometimes you need to be selfish. And having a child is a big responsibility. If you can't deal with it, then fuck that unborn baby.
But still, I think you're portraying selfishness in a poor light. Selfishness is good if used in the right context. In the end, you will need to take care of number one.
Selfishness is only looked upon because as a child you were taught that it was bad to not help your friends and shit. It's only when you grow up you realize that helping them all the time can lead to some serious social problems and conflicts. Sometimes you need to be selfish. And having a child is a big responsibility. If you can't deal with it, then fuck that unborn baby.
I think it is risky to encourage the idea that it is better to live for yourself than other not because it isn't true (at least to some exstent) but because, I mean look at Japan. We can't ignore the need for people to have children but I mean we have over 7billion people on earth. Everyone should stop being so sniffy about immigrants and I think we will survive a while with a low birth rate.
If you really don't want children then it isn't selfish not to want to have any, it is a personal choice but I dunno don't rule out that you may change your mind. Personally I can understand why soneone wouldn't want kids and it is better for children to be brought up in a family where they are truly wanted rather than a obligation (trust me I know).
I think the only situation where it is a selfish choice is if you were in a relationship with someone who did want to have kids and were not clear with your intentions never to have children.
If you really don't want children then it isn't selfish not to want to have any, it is a personal choice but I dunno don't rule out that you may change your mind. Personally I can understand why soneone wouldn't want kids and it is better for children to be brought up in a family where they are truly wanted rather than a obligation (trust me I know).
I think the only situation where it is a selfish choice is if you were in a relationship with someone who did want to have kids and were not clear with your intentions never to have children.
No, it's usually smart. It's idiotic to bring a child you can't take care of properly into the world.
I don't intend to have kids, because my life plan involves me eventually being a field marine biologist, which means that i'd be gone a lot of the time, and I don't want to have my kid subjected to only having me around a limited amount of time.
That's outdated thinking. There are already more people on the planet there are resources for. Considering global poverty and starvation levels, it's selfish to increase your country's population, increasing your own demand for resources and reducing the resources available worldwide. We are past carrying capacity. Now, things like the Green Revolution have extended our carrying capacity somewhat, and we're close to developing some even better crops. But we can't look backwards for solutions to problems the world has never faced before. Go forth and multiply no longer applies. We've multiplied enough. Unless we severely reduce consumption and increase our agricultural efficiency, "maintaining our population" is going to cause a lot of wars.
Of course, there will be some economic problems caused by having most of the population be really old. But a smaller population means more resources, food, water, and work for everyone. Any comfortable society should make it a goal to reduce their population, to a reasonable point. So there's absolutely nothing wrong with the OP not wanting kids. It's a more responsible choice than acting on some sort of instinctive imperative.
Of course, there will be some economic problems caused by having most of the population be really old. But a smaller population means more resources, food, water, and work for everyone. Any comfortable society should make it a goal to reduce their population, to a reasonable point. So there's absolutely nothing wrong with the OP not wanting kids. It's a more responsible choice than acting on some sort of instinctive imperative.
Oy...
I'm never going to say that anyone is required to have children, or that they're somehow deficient for not having children. I have plenty of friends who have quite deliberately chosen not to, and I know tons of people who never should have children, including, sadly, a few who do anyway.
That said, let's have a note from the parent side of things. Recognize that we've taken on a responsibility that we take seriously, and that in the grand scheme of things that amounts to a little more than a "lifestyle choice". We will try to be accommodating, but show enough grace to meet us halfway. We will not be beginning dinner at eight o'clock at night, we can't drop everything on the spur of the moment just because some performer is in town, and while we're doing our best to keep our child from crying through the first meal out we've gotten to eat in three months, try to remember that you only got to be here because no one decided to choke you to death when you were having a temper tantrum about not getting the right kind of juice, too, Holmes.
I'm never going to say that anyone is required to have children, or that they're somehow deficient for not having children. I have plenty of friends who have quite deliberately chosen not to, and I know tons of people who never should have children, including, sadly, a few who do anyway.
That said, let's have a note from the parent side of things. Recognize that we've taken on a responsibility that we take seriously, and that in the grand scheme of things that amounts to a little more than a "lifestyle choice". We will try to be accommodating, but show enough grace to meet us halfway. We will not be beginning dinner at eight o'clock at night, we can't drop everything on the spur of the moment just because some performer is in town, and while we're doing our best to keep our child from crying through the first meal out we've gotten to eat in three months, try to remember that you only got to be here because no one decided to choke you to death when you were having a temper tantrum about not getting the right kind of juice, too, Holmes.
Completely agree. I have yet to decide on children at my age. I know if I ever have a child I would want to be as ready as possible for the sacrifices that come with it. I would not be content to simply be a father, but take responsibility that I would wish to be a good father. I think knowing yourself and what you are capable of is an important aspect in making significant life decisions. I knew years ago that I had a basic line of how I saw life.Mouse One said:
1. Take care of myself (meaning I can stand on my own and not begrudge anyone for not being able to do things I enjoyed for a period in my life.)
2. Develop stable relationship (have solid base of trust and love along with pragmatic financial issues resolved in a way that added stress would not break them.)
3. Possibly have offspring (as stated, I see this as a massive lifelong commitment beyond when the child is entirely dependent on you. I have an obligation to any life I bring into this world to give it best possible chance at happiness I can.)
So, you can be unselfish selfish by knowing your own limitations and being honest with yourself.
I've got so many issues that me becoming a parent would be a very, very bad idea. I've got severe depression, possibly ADD, I'm lazy as hell, have low self esteem and have trouble interacting with people... I think I'm doing everyone a favor by not having kids. Society can say whatever the hell they want about me, but some people just aren't emotionally stable and educated enough to handle raising kids.
Unfortunately a lot of the people who have no business raising kids, have them in droves.
Unfortunately a lot of the people who have no business raising kids, have them in droves.
Unless, of course, you have brothers and sisters.Bara_no_Hime said:
I do plan on having kids, but I'm not super excited about handing down MY family genes. Excema, hayfever, asthma and other such unpleasantries run in my family.
And twins, that runs in my family too. No thanks, lol.
The same reason that we're not restricting family size because of overpopulation - we don't have cheap and reliable robot workers yet. The logic is that you're buying products but not supplying any labor in the long run to make them.