The Big Picture: Maddening

[bdcjacko]

think one of the phrase's he said was "he can't suffer enough" also remember him saying something along the lines of rotting, an he did on on a rant about his career not making him worthy of second chance, so yer I'm pretty sure he did man.

what rules am I breaking just trying to create a separate discussion about my specific view point cause I think his is totally wrong, an if you read my post I have been allot more balanced than moviebob was.

Also sorry for calling you a wise ass if you genuanly feel your trying to up hold some sort of system but just seemed to me that keep coming back, ur just sparring for an argument or attention.

There is a rule against duplicate threads. Technically this is a duplicate thread.

Also, sorry I don't have sympathy for a million that kills dogs for fun.

 

[ChristheTsunami]

I don't really care about the cover of madden, but I see where you're coming from, and a lot of people don't seem fully grasp the concept of what Vick did. He invested in brutalizing animals till they were scared and violent in order to watch them tear each other apart; often killing ones that survived, but were too injured to fight any more. I know that killing a person is an act inherently, in itself, worse then killing an animal, but which could you see yourself doing more easily: shooting a person, or taking and animal and slowly downing it to death?
It isn't just what he did, it's the mindset a person would have to have in order to put the energy and forethought into starving and torturing animals, before forcing them to attack each other, and crudely killing them at the end of it all. There is NO way to accidentally do that and the suffering of the animal is the entire point of the sport and not a byproduct of it.

 

[Preston_r]

Average person commits a felony, goes to jail, gets out - Has a hard time getting a job again due to said felony. Can barely work at McDonalds, probably will never become a manager or be trusted with any amount of authority again.

Celebrity (actor, musician, sports athlete) commits felony, goes to jail, gets out - Gets millions of dollars for acting / playing music / throwing a ball. Lives rest of life in relative luxury.

Saying "You don't get to be on the cover of a video game" or on the Wheaties box, or whatever isn't going to ruin his life. He will still have his paycheck from his football career. It just means he doesn't get the HONOR of being recognized as someone we want to hold up as being GREAT.

Being a felon hasn't ruined his life in the same way it would the average person. So, no. Sorry. Bob is right, you are wrong. Torturing and killing animals for sport is morally reprehensible. As bad as rape or murder? No, of course not. But it is still sick, repugnant, and vile and debased. The man shouldn't be honored by us. He has his honor from us - We still allow him to throw a ball around and make millions of dollars for our entertainment.

 

[Legion]

He is to be judged on his personal life as all people are. As you are. As the beggar and the politician are.
The outcry is far from political.
You don't have perspective, you have bias.

The man is scum. It is precisely because he is a man that he ought to be brought to task all the more.
You say it's "just a dog" because it lacks the cognitive skills your average healthy human does, which makes exploitation of the animals by this swirling torrent of mediocre all the more reprehensible.

I am tired of celebrity worship. If the guy ran a hospital he would be ought of a job. If the guy ran a charity he would be out of a job. If the guy cured cancer, he would be out of a job.
But because he runs across a field and throws a round thing for a living he's suddenly "worthy of redemption".
My ass.
The guy deserves nothing. If he wants a second chance then he's going to have to earn it. You do not hand it to him because you have a compulsion to treat these utterly ineffectual, over-rated, lumbering, testosterone fuelled pustules as somehow having contributed something of value to society.

I was going to argue my own point but you summed it up for me.

I would also like to add that imprisonment is not meant as "serving your time" like everyone acts. Its a way of keeping the undesirable parts of society out of everyone else's lives. The reason we don't keep them there forever is because society cannot afford it, and there isn't enough space for it either. If we had unlimited funds and space then you can guarantee that every person caught doing what he did would never see the light of day again.

Average person commits a felony, goes to jail, gets out - Has a hard time getting a job again due to said felony. Can barely work at McDonalds, probably will never become a manager or be trusted with any amount of authority again.

Celebrity (actor, musician, sports athlete) commits felony, goes to jail, gets out - Gets millions of dollars for acting / playing music / throwing a ball. Lives rest of life in relative luxury.

Saying "You don't get to be on the cover of a video game" or on the Wheaties box, or whatever isn't going to ruin his life. He will still have his paycheck from his football career. It just means he doesn't get the HONOR of being recognized as someone we want to hold up as being GREAT.

Being a felon hasn't ruined his life in the same way it would the average person. So, no. Sorry. Bob is right, you are wrong. Torturing and killing animals for sport is morally reprehensible. As bad as rape or murder? No, of course not. But it is still sick, repugnant, and vile and debased. The man shouldn't be honored by us. He has his honor from us - We still allow him to throw a ball around and make millions of dollars for our entertainment.

This is also perfectly true.

 

[Lionsfan]

Prison isn't redemption. It's punishment.
He's done jack shit to make amends, and he never will. He's a scummy human being who takes pleasure in watching the pain and suffering of living animals.

And his serving his punishment gives him equal footing. Not exactly equal since we'll all remember his crimes but he's earned his second chance. That's the way our justice system is set up, you commit the crime you serve the time. And once the time is served you can start you're road to redemption. And his redemption isn't because of what he's doing on the football field, not his moral redemption anyway. It's his charity work he does with the Humane Society since his prison release, it's the fact that he's kept a clean nose since prison. That's his moral redemption.

...in that way he's not so much different to the average football fan.

Really dude?

 

[Outright Villainy]

Not putting him on a box isn't punishing him. I'm not being put on a box either, I don't feel like I've been punished, that's silly.

However, putting him on a box is championing him, as if he's someone to look up to. And he's not. He tortured and killed animals. And serving time doesn't mean he's redeemed, he was just punished.

Fuck that guy.

 

[Nyquisted]

I'm not going to join in the argument, but I can tell you why MovieBob has 'The Big Picture' show on the Escapist.
Mainly because he has two other successful shows on the internet already, and a lot of people generally agree with what he has to say.
Shamus Young put well in one of his articles when he joked 'MovieBob is this close to being in a position to start his own cult.'

So he's kinda popular around here.

 

[Batichi]

The problem is, you're looking at it as Person vs Animal, when it is about the ACT that has been done. It is the ACT of TORTURE for profit. It makes a difference in you sentence between a human and an animal, but the actual act of torture for either is similar. It is the fact that he went out of his way to inflict pain on something, for no reason other than profit.

That is why he doesn't deserve to be on the cover, and what moviebob was trying to express above all else.

The act of torture is why he shouldn't be praised. There is something wrong when a human being cannot feel empathy. And that is what terrifies me.

 

[Trolldor]

Not putting him on a box isn't punishing him. I'm not being put on a box either, I don't feel like I've been punished, that's silly.

However, putting him on a box is championing him, as if he's someone to look up to. And he's not. He tortured and killed animals. And serving time doesn't mean he's redeemed, he was just punished.

Fuck that guy.

Not putting him on a box that would have otherwise given him lots of moneys because of his actions is a punishment.

He is to be judged on his personal life as all people are. As you are. As the beggar and the politician are.
The outcry is far from political.
You don't have perspective, you have bias.

The man is scum. It is precisely because he is a man that he ought to be brought to task all the more.
You say it's "just a dog" because it lacks the cognitive skills your average healthy human does, which makes exploitation of the animals by this swirling torrent of mediocre all the more reprehensible.

I am tired of celebrity worship. If the guy ran a hospital he would be ought of a job. If the guy ran a charity he would be out of a job. If the guy cured cancer, he would be out of a job.
But because he runs across a field and throws a round thing for a living he's suddenly "worthy of redemption".
My ass.
The guy deserves nothing. If he wants a second chance then he's going to have to earn it. You do not hand it to him because you have a compulsion to treat these utterly ineffectual, over-rated, lumbering, testosterone fuelled pustules as somehow having contributed something of value to society.

I'm not even a Vick fan! I support the cowboys so where is the bias there!
and precisely because he is in the public eye, he has received 10x the amount of trouble from it. He is actively donating to charities to stop it, he is obviously making an effort. he's not swanning about, being like "fuck it". Also the compulsion to give him a second chance is because of how he has been very humble in accepting his punishment an trying to put it right.

A large part of my point was that this man is basicly being overly persecuted because he is a football player, so who is being biased!

Sport adds a fucking huge amount to our society as a whole, its an inspiration, its entertainment to billions, it helps combat obesity and improve public health, helps the economy, helps build team work and team building skill, give's an outlet for our natural aggression an urge to compete. In motor sport, it drives forward innovation, funds large areas of education an research, provides funding for those who can not afford uni, is a testing ground for safety equipment for the public sector as well as proving tech to improve fuel economy. Do you want me to go on?

An I have never really herd of anyone loosing a job that was not animal related or care related for animal abuse, so that's rubbish. Also if you had cured cancer i'm pretty sure you ain't ever going to loose your job, ever.

And it is political, how can you not see that. People love animals, powerful people who rely on public support see this, vick does bad things to animals, people go over the top public out cry, power full people see this an come down on Vick like a tonne of bricks. do you want me to put it in simpler terms?

Also I say its just a dog because, it is an animal, I am a human, sorry if I value the life of my own above that of another species.

Seriously don't call someone biased who has clearly attempted to view both side an then come in totally one sided without considering any views apart from your own. I created this thread cause I attempted to look at moviebobs view point an totally didt agree, you have just come charging in(just as moviebob did) totally biased an one sided so I value your opinion practically null as you have made some frankly stupid comments about sport an the topic in general.

Thank you for proving my point.
You have bias, not perspective.

The guy is far from being overly prosecuted, especially when he's still being paid however much money for his blatant disregard for the well being of another living thing.

You have bias, not persective. If you had perspective you'd know this guy didn't kill an animal to save a life, he deliberately fostered an environment in which two animals would be trained and let loose on one another to cause pain, to cause harm, and could cause death, for entertainment.
It was an act of pleasure to him.
That says all I need to know about the man, and it's something you are deliberately ignoring.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Unpopular opinion incoming:
I'm voting for him. He had a great year and Philly was heading for a 7-9 record without him. Was what he did horrible? Yes, but he served the time he was given for it. End of story.

 

[o_O]

No one regrets doing the crime. Only being caught.

You think he really regrets *doing* what he did? No, I'd bet my damn life that it's the blowback he regrets and wishes would go away (and I'd say the same thing about anyone, not just this guy). All that charity work and all that? Damage control. It's all about the image, no matter who you are or what you do.

 

[AKmontalvo]

the end of this video was especially potent to me, Vick is a real-life monster and should not be glorified in any way and YES the argument is completely different than fictional monsters created for narrative purposes and even befor this video i stood firmly on the side that he should have been disbarred from the NFL

 

[Dr. Pepper Unlimited]

There are so many holes in your argument it is taking on the appearance of swiss cheese at this point, so I'm not going to bother pointing them out because I honestly...just really don't want to. Call it what you will. To sum it up shortly, MovieBoB hates him, as he clearly states, because he tortured and harmed animals for sport and entertainment. The man [Vick] is an asshat. A person that does this should not be idolized. Period.

No one regrets doing the crime. Only being caught.

While I don't really want to blanket everyone and say this, I am also going to say "This ^"

What Vick did after the fact was damage control. Kobe did it (though not convicted, his reputation was still damaged) and Vick was doing it too. It's the purest form of damage control. That's all.

 

[caiofigo]

Maybe Michael Vick should be in the next Pokemon game cover.

 

[Bluecho]

I have a number of dogs myself, and I feel guilty about not petting them when they saddle up to my leg and stare up at me with those pleading eyes. Micheal Vick forced dogs to fight to the death, and then tortured and killed them (sometimes personally), all for the sake of gambling profit. That is downright evil. No animal deserves to be tortured and killed for money.

And I'm not saying he's beyond forgiveness, but I am saying despite what time he's served he still doesn't deserve to be placed on the pedestal of the game cover.

 

[WOPR]

Them: "Dude it's just a dog!"
**has them hung drawn and quartered**
Me: "What? it's just a human, not like we don't have a few BILLION more of those!"

(let the record show that I too eat meat, I'd wear leather if I could afford it... I don't hunt though... but yeah, what he did, was uncalled for [michael dick vick that is])

 

[WOPR]

Maybe Michael Vick should be in the next Pokemon game cover.

FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE WHO GETS IT!
**has made the joke about pokemon being about catching wild animals and having them fight to the death only to be told "DUDE, IT TEACHES YOU THAT FIGHTING MAKES YOU STRONGER!" ...and yes these are pokemon fans so they're not exactly the sharpest tools in the shed**

EDIT: Can you imagine the uproar if he got his own Nintendogs game?

 

[walsfeo]

But yeah, I've never understood how adults could find sports so engaging or have such pride in a team they aren't really a part of.

Cause you are part of the team by supporting, its not just something teams say to get you to the game.

I play uni American football in the UK, so imagine how many fan's we get turn up, you have no idea how much of a boost it is when we get 20-30 people turn up to watch an cheer us on.

Also I'm studying as a motorcycle motor sport engineer an again when I'm doing race weekends, especially for this as we never really get fans, its a fucking crazy boost to moral an spirits to the team.

Fans are part of the team.

Conceptually I understand it, and I'm sure the impact you reference exists, but it just doesn't engage me.

Even when I go to a hockey event and the adrenaline gets pumping because of the action on the ice, I still don't feel connected to the team or the action. I didn't spend years training, I didn't gouge that other guy with a stick. The actions belong to the players, not to me. I suppose by buying a ticket or some kind of fugli sports apparel I'd be supporting the team financially, but that's not really any different than supporting the Coca Cola Company when buying a soft drink.

 

[walsfeo]

Unpopular opinion incoming:
I'm voting for him. He had a great year and Philly was heading for a 7-9 record without him. Was what he did horrible? Yes, but he served the time he was given for it. End of story.

Yeah, he served his time so he's out of jail. I suppose I can support that he's out of jail - or at least not ***** about it.

However it is not unreasonable for past actions, especially past actions as atrocious as these, to continue to have a negative impact on the rest of his life.

Yeah, he paid his debt, but that doesn't mean the past should be forgotten.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Also, I doubt Bob follows football too much. "Catches and throws a ball"? Really? He is a quarterback, not a receiver. And your bias against athletes is showing, Bob.