Veganism...why?

[chaos order]

If there is no difference between humans and animals, then why should we act differently from other omnivores and not eat meat?

We are "cursed," so to speak, with the knowledge of good and evil. Like it or not, we have the ability to see what is right and what is wrong and as much as it might suck sometimes, we have the great responsibility of acting on that. Humans and animals are like adults and babies - we all have different levels of understanding regarding right and wrong, but we're responsible for what we do know definitely. A tiger doesn't know in any concrete sense the suffering of a gazelle, but like it or not, a human being knows the suffering of a cow being led to slaughter.

it would be irrelevant to the tiger if it was capable of knowing if the gazelle is suffering because a tiger NEEDS TO EAT MEAT, so if it was wracked with guilt over the gazelle it ate and decided not to eat any more it would be dead in no time. in addition the cow doesnt know its being led to slaughter, and in many cases the animals themselves arent suffering throughout their life on the farm. Yes i admit that battery farms are shitty, but other farms treat the animals alot better.

also the you're whole concept of right and wrong doesn't sit well with me. right and wrong are merely words in which the actions and behaviors that fall under them can and are subject to change over time and geography so you cant really just declare that eating an animal is objectively "wrong". to you maybe fine, but not to others.

MORE OT: personally i eat meat. i think its just natural for a human to eat meat, but i dont really care if someone makes the decision not to eat it because its their choice.

 

[ArcaneFyre]

Our canines are dull, pathetic examples of teeth used for shredding meat. Look at any other carnivore/omnivore, theirs are much sharper and more pointed. And herbivores' jaws move side to side like ours, animals meant to eat meat have vertically moving jaws. And shorter intestines. And digestive systems that can properly handle animal protein and trans fatty acids without depleting the calcium from their bones.

Honestly, what is with all the animosity here? It sickens me to see people who are deluded enough to think that MY diet is some sort of personal attack on them. It's getting extremely irritating.

 

[galdon2004]

Its a pointless and perpetuated myth that it is a healthier lifestyle, ignoring the fact that Humans are omnivores and have for most of their existence lived off of a diet rich in meat and fat, and most foods found in organic health food stores are impossible to obtain through non-chemical means.

 

[superdelux]

I remember a seeing a comedian on TV who said some thing like this "You do it because you love cows and pigs more than the immigrants who pick your vegetables."

 

[Snotnarok]

Because they're crazy, animals eat animals and humans are animals.

My friends friend is a vegan and the twig of a girl confused me by trying to recreate non-vegan food items with vegan items catching her saying "oh wow it tastes just like eggs!"

So just eat a bloody egg, this is just making it difficult for yourself.

I've also had vegans smack food out of my hands in school because I was "rudely sitting toward their table" and eating a hamburger.
Not saying vegans are crazy or jerks, but I haven't had a favorable encounter with them.

 

[Teh Jammah]

It allows multiple hours of grappling practice.

Yes.

Yes!

YES!

YES!!!

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Depulcator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4jZ_BV4MQ4&feature=plcp

As always Maddox has the anwser.

 

[MHR]

I've been vegetarian for about a year now.

Why I don't go vegan is because it's ridiculously impractical when you consider the amount of effort put into it. Consuming milk doesn't necessarily imply suffering on the animal's part. It's up to the consumers and suppliers to change the way domestic livestock are treated. boycotting all milk doesn't directly solve that problem, it would just put all dairy out of business if it were successful.

Meat on the other hand, there's no way to make it suffering-free unless you wait around for the animal to die of old age (and get really tough and flavorless) and snag the corpse up before it goes bad. The responsibility here is placed on the consumer to reject the meat outright. I hear this one guy is trying to grow artificial meat, but until that comes around it's veggie burgers for me.

And in any case, being a vegan is REALLY REALLY HARD, and I've met a few vegans. Finding anything vegetarian to eat on a restaurant menu pretty much limits you to 3 choices if you're lucky, but being vegan means you almost can't eat anything. Everything has milk or eggs in it. It's ridiculous. Anyway cheese is one of my primary sources of protein and flavor. If I had to eat mostly salad I would probably have poor nutrition and mental health in about a month.

Have you tried vegan mac and cheese? DONT, it's HORRIBLE. It's like someone has desperately tried to flavor nut tar and then threw in chopped bits of plastic tubing.

 

[Texas Joker 52]

Unless vegans are growing their own food, on their own land, with no pesticides, they're hypocrites.

Countless animals are killed during the farming of grain and other plants.

As for why they do it.

No idea.

I understand vegetarianism to a degree, but not veganism.

So, what, just because any way of producing food kills animals, it's hypocritical to try and kill less of them? And what about all of the people that can't afford to buy their own land and grow their own food? (which basically does mean all of the people)

I imagine everything that applies for vegetarianism applies more so for veganism. More efficient use of land, less animal suffering, etc.

Look, I understand the ideology surrounding it, and I have no problems with those who keep it to themselves, but the ideology is flawed.

'Oh, well, my diet kills less animals than yours.'

Okay, I'll accept that.

What about milk? Milk doesn't harm any animals, but they still refuse to drink it.

Just look at organisations like PETA.

They're hialriously hypocritcal, but I understand that they only represent a minority of vegans.

Well, Daystar, as a vegetarian, I may be able to add at least some insight with my own personal views, which you didn't ask for and more than likely don't even want! (insert friendly but cagey grin here)

Basically, for me, meat just doesn't sit well. Not sure why. Didn't like the taste or indigestion, so I stick to stuff that doesn't have meat. I'm not going to pretend that my diet kills less animals: Cows, chickens, pigs, etc., get killed every single day, and my eating french fries doesn't prevent the Big Macs. That sort of mindset is just stupid.

Besides, if you eat meat, good on ya! More for you. Its just not my thing. Like... Real Time Strategy games, or Dog Ownership. They may not be my thing, but I won't say they're bad at all, no sir!

 

[Rowan93]

Unless vegans are growing their own food, on their own land, with no pesticides, they're hypocrites.

Countless animals are killed during the farming of grain and other plants.

As for why they do it.

No idea.

I understand vegetarianism to a degree, but not veganism.

So, what, just because any way of producing food kills animals, it's hypocritical to try and kill less of them? And what about all of the people that can't afford to buy their own land and grow their own food? (which basically does mean all of the people)

I imagine everything that applies for vegetarianism applies more so for veganism. More efficient use of land, less animal suffering, etc.

Not quite how it works. Veganism causes the exact same amount of animal suffering. in fact it would cause more since chickens, most breeds of turkeys and dairy cows would go extinct if we stopped keeping them around. Would also put Millions of people out of work.

Animals can't suffer if they don't exist, so what the hell is "more suffering" supposed to mean?

I'm not sure if anyone would be out of work, since a global switchover to vegan food would require the same mass of food to be produced, it would just all be plants. Of course, you still might see millions of people out of work, but if so that would be because it's a more efficient way to produce food, which is a good thing.

 

[Rowan93]

Unless vegans are growing their own food, on their own land, with no pesticides, they're hypocrites.

Countless animals are killed during the farming of grain and other plants.

As for why they do it.

No idea.

I understand vegetarianism to a degree, but not veganism.

So, what, just because any way of producing food kills animals, it's hypocritical to try and kill less of them? And what about all of the people that can't afford to buy their own land and grow their own food? (which basically does mean all of the people)

I imagine everything that applies for vegetarianism applies more so for veganism. More efficient use of land, less animal suffering, etc.

Look, I understand the ideology surrounding it, and I have no problems with those who keep it to themselves, but the ideology is flawed.

'Oh, well, my diet kills less animals than yours.'

Okay, I'll accept that.

What about milk? Milk doesn't harm any animals, but they still refuse to drink it.

Just look at organisations like PETA.

They're hialriously hypocritcal, but I understand that they only represent a minority of vegans.

"Kills less animals" can be extended to "causes less animal suffering". The killing itself doesn't cause much suffering (unless it's halal), and there are probably more problems with the animal's experiences elsewhere in its life of captivity.

I'm not sure if PETA represent anyone except psychopaths.

 

[Yopaz]

Dear sweet monkey lord you treat your cows like QUEENS! I'd have said kings but... y'know... anyway...

Right, yes, but I assume that the cows in question still have their calf yanked away so that it doesn't get the milk that the dirty humans want to drink. Also, the fact that humans want cows' milk has lead to breeding of the cows, the cows' existences and then indentured servitudes.

I do not think the cows would be better off if you let them free. I like milk, I like beef and I like to stare deep into a cow's eyes, stroke its head and whisper into its ear, "See you on Sunday". However, if fewer people drank milk then there'd be fewer cows so there'd be less 'suffering'.

Yeah, you got me there, in most cases we do take away the calf. Though that's more for practical purposes than anything else. The milk form a cow that recently gave birth is full of hormones and I think it might be higher in fat and a little thicker than the milk of other cows. The milk is either given to the calf or discarded.

However you are right that there's a lot of things wrong in the way animals are treated in order to get more meat and more milk. Bad hygiene, conditions, treatment and ways to cut corners. I grew up on a farm and my dad is still a farmer so I guess that is why I care so much about the conditions the animals have to live with. I guess if I lived anywhere else the idea of becoming a vegan would be more tempting.

 

[CAPTCHA]

Don't really understand it myself. Apparently neither does this guy.

Spoiler

Captcha: Queen of Hearts.

 

[ReinWeisserRitter]

First of all, we're not adhering to what you consider a duty to keep other species in check when we're deliberately making more for the express purpose of eating them. So that argument kind of falls apart from the beginning.

Unless you're implying that the environmental impact we have, have had, and will have is our purpose, which is disconcerting but entirely plausible. Of course, that was probably just me being grim.

Anyway. I frankly find veganism to be completely absurd and hypocritical, come up with by a group of people who, for the most part, are doing it just for the sake of their self-opinions, and/or to lower those of others. Indeed, most such movements are expressly for that purpose; morality is merely the reasoning given.

However, I'd like to think that many of them genuinely mean well and just can't think of another way to go about it. On paper, it's fine; "be nice to animals". In practice is where the silliness lies.

 

[Piorn]

I can understand when people don't like meat, but if you claim to live without any animal related resources, you'd also have to live without modern medicine, or basically anything that involves animals in any way.

 

[Agow95]

I don't understand the reasoning behind vegans, we have no obligation to take a moral high ground and never harm animals in the slightest even for food, we're omnivores, we are designed by million of years of evolution to eat animals and vegetables, we get more nutrition from animals than they do from plants. Mind you, eating animals hasn't actually always come naturally to people, apparantly before Romans came to Britain we didn't eat chicken, we ate eggs and made them fight for money, but Romans had to point out they were edible.

 

[Baconmonster723]

We're Apex Predators. Evolution put us where we are and if humans are anything we're opportunistic. So I'm going to consume meat, vegetables, fruit, and all other foods that I can acquire because evolution (and personal circumstance) has given me that luxury.

If vegans/vegetarians don't eat meat because they don't want to harm animals that's their prerogative. Just don't try and justify that they have some moral high ground over humans who choose to be omnivores.

Sure, by all means care for these animals if that's what you'd like to do. But sooner or later natural selection will run its course. Animals will die, plants will die. Animals will become extinct or evolve and so will plants. This is the way of the world and I'm not even going to think for a moment that I really believe we're capable of changing that at the moment. Adapt or die, that's the line the world has been throwing at animals since our ancestors first climbed out of the primordial ooze.

For the record, I don't think animals should be abused because that's just psychotic behavior. However, I'll be damned if I care more about some cow or chicken than about a human child who lives in worse conditions and doesn't have the luxury of eating everyday. I just have this odd habit of putting my own species at the top of my priority list of things that matter to me.

 

[Bat Vader]

My sister is a Vegan. She mainly does it because of all the the harmful stuff that goes into meat these days. She only buys organic food and nothing processed. Some of it is actually really good. She bought organic sweet peppers the other day and they taste great.

She has been trying to get me to eat healthier which I need to do. I also need to lose weight as well. I like the taste of meat to much to stop eating it. The Morningstar vegetarian burgers are pretty good and they taste just like meat which is nice.

 

[Secret world leader (shhh)]

Animals clearly have desires. They clearly feel pain. I don't see any scientific reason why a human being with severe mental retardation should be considered any more important than a pig.

Sir, you have convinced me!

We SHOULD be serving up the mentally retarded for dinner! Just think of the world hunger problems we could solve!

We'd be cleaning up the genepool on the side! It's fantastic!

 

[Secret world leader (shhh)]

Does it really matter?

Yes. If it didn't, you wouldn't be a vegetarian/vegan.

Does me or anyone else being a vegetarian/vegan affect you in any way? No. So you can f*** right off.

You're right...I CAN fuck right off! You're flawless debating skills have made me see the light!

I don't tell you how to live your life and you don't tell me how to live mine.

At no point did i tell you how to live your life. I merely expressed my opinion as it currently stands, if you see that as "telling you to live your life", you've got problems.

More on topic, why? Because I try to keep myself as healthy as possible after a friend of mine dropped dead at 20. If it can happen to someone I've known for nearly 11 years, it could happen to me.

Ok. See? Now you've answered my question and helped me understand the issue a bit better without exploding at me because i'm so obviously trying to establish a meat-eating regime where veganism is illegal. That wasn't so hard now, was it?