"Wait, how is that offensive?!"

[Farseer Lolotea]

I never knew that "nappy" (as in, badly knotted or dirty hair and such) was supposedly racist until Don Imus got himself in trouble for calling some women's basketball team "nappy-headed hos" and the outcry wasn't so much about the hos part as the nappy part.

Personally? I think insulting them at all was out of line in its own right. What the hell did they ever do to him to make him think that was merited?

As for why the "nappy-headed" bit might have impressed people as racist: the implication is that very tightly-curled hair (you know, the type of hair that's considered an ethnic trait associated with black people) is dirty and/or unkempt by definition. Not to say that any one ethnicity has a monopoly on stigmatizing tightly-curled hair...but there you go.

Also I never knew "coon" was supposedly a racial slur against blacks until WoW took out the Maine Coon minipet. (Which is an outrage, btw, Maine Coon is a legitimate and most awesome breed of cat, they shoulda told whoever complained to fuck right off)

Now, that was straight-up ridiculous. And the fact that anyone who knows jack about cats knows that there's no such thing as a "black tabby" only adds to it.

 

[Mischa87]

Well given that you stated you've lived in Canada all your life, I'm going to assume that you haven't really experienced British teenage culture and I really can confirm, it is part of the culture. Basically everyone says it so to say that it's part of my "immature gaming communities" is just plain wrong.

Actually, I briefly dated a girl in highschool who went to London on a student exchange program,and my last boyfriend was from London, in the year and a half I dated him, I learned quite a bit about British culture and "The queen's English" Enough to know the homophobic term of choice over there seems to be "poof"

And in all honestly, the only English kids I've seen online that used the word "gay" in this context, we're obviously heavily influence by American culture (Albeit American culture from a few years back)

Also, I agree, language is fluid. That's exactly why a word can take on a completely different meaning. Just like "gay" has to mean 'lame' in the CULTURE (yes, it is) that I'm a part of.

Heh, "lame" is ablest by the way.

Just because you perceive it as a culture (It may be a sub-culture at best) doesn't make it so, nor would it even make it right, or just, which is the issue here.

Also, the fact that your friend changed the way he spoke for you is completely different thing to what I'm talking about as you presumably had to tell him that you were offended whilst I have never offended a gay person by saying gay in that way, the people who called me out on it were always the kind of overly concious white, middle-class people that feel they can speak for a whole minority. If there was a gay guy that really was offended by me saying it of course I'd stop saying it in front of him.

He still had to change the language he used, no? That was the point of bringing up that story.

Also, the reason a lot of queer people don't speak up, is because of all the flak, the beatings, the ridicule, and the murders towards them. The vocal minority are those with thick enough skins, and a strong enough sense of justice to stand up and speak out. Time and time again (for presumably obvious reasons) Homophobes/bigots seem to like to directly attack these people) Such as you did there...

Also, instead of stopping the offensive language when it offends someone, why not just remove it from your vernacular BEFORE it does? Doesn't that make more sense? It would also stop offending those who don't/won't/can't speak up. I know they're out there, I get several PMs every time I make a post like this, with people thanking me for standing up for the community.

Finally, that thread sounds interesting, could you send me a link? I really don't see how a bisexual could be homphobic.

I'll PM you it once/if I get around to it (I didn't post in it so I can't find it through my post history)

But yes, of course they can be homophobic, the same way homosexual people can be intolerant of bisexual people (Which can be seen in threads like this http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.322265-Annoying-stereotypes-about-my-sexuality?page=1)

Heck, I've even had the displeasure of meeting transphobic transsexuals. It's sad, and it happens...

 

[Mischa87]

Its not by being queer, and its not by being offended by homophobia, its by over-reacting to a situation YOU WELL KNOW.

Over-reacting? That's easy to say when YOU don't have to deal with the shit queer people do, check your privilege.

Yeah because clearly i have said something remotely close to gays shouldn't exist in this conversations. My rule with sexuality do whatever you want just don't force me to.

First off, it's "gay people" not gays, that's a slur in a lot of places (You're a real winner, ain't ya?)

Second, by subscribing to homophobia, you're supporting the same hate that people use to justify killing queer people.

Third, by being tolerant, it doesn't change your sexual orientation, just makes you a more well-adjusted human being.

And i don't say that no other groups do the same thing, i think any group of people making a fuss about a single word has run out of real issues to deal with.

(Lucky thing I'm a good English-to-english translator, otherwise that might of been a tad hard to read) Obviously, empathy is not your strong point, try working on that, might make you a touch less insufferable.

And this is exactly the kind of overreacting im talking about "defending your right to exist" i never once questioned that right. I questioned people creating a scene just because they can.

Seems someone shouldn't be judging how adjusted other people are.

This was already covered prior, Repeaty McRepeaterson.

And why shouldn't I? Considering I've been the victim of plenty of hatecrimes, and have treated the victims of countless more, professionally for over 5 years? I think I have a VERY solid understanding of the topic...

But thanks for calling me a bigot thats a new one. I'd be hurt if i didn't know you threw that around like candy.

Null perspiration chum, and no, I reserve it for the real ignorant, hatred-filled individuals... You're a real piece of work buddy.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

I bet it's Sickipedia. All that shit comes from Sickipedia.

Incorrect. I can never find any particularly funny jokes on Sickipedia, they're often a little timid too.

 

[Ohhi]

I hate the fact that people get overworked when I say the word ****** and then I have to explain to them that I am not using it as a racial slur but to call a person a stupid ignorant fuck, and that anyone of any race, gender, or religion can be a stupid ignorant fuck.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

My take on it is this. Just like people asking for everyone to exist under the blanket of what they consider just and acceptable, they are just as wrong as the people saying 'I should be able to say what I want because I don't see what the problem is with it'.

It's opinions. It's feelings. Some people will share your opinions. Enough people share your opinions, you begin to forget they are opinions and start considering them facts. That's dangerous territory, because that's where these stupid arguments stem from.

To reach into the 'Horrible cliches that just happen to be true' box, the world isn't black and white; We got a lot of grey going on. how I feel is wrong for billions. how you feel is wrong for billions. Anyone one in this thread feels might be wrong for billions. Yet in these pages, we have one or two agreeing with our standpoint, so we then believe in it in the factual sense.

I'll use one example from this thread.

One poster stated when they question a person of faith why they have faith, and used a thesis (if I remember correctly) to challenge their views. Why I'd be upset if someone did that to me is the same reason I'd be upset if someone came up to me and asked me how I could be a meat eater when animals have souls, too. It came out of no where, and it's asking me to justify my feelings to someone else.

I don't know you. I am not you. These two facts makes me feel as long as you're not harming another living soul, you can go do whatever you want. I won't question it or have you justify it to me because I don't have to live your life. I don't need to know what you do behind closed doors as long as you're safe and it's not hurting anyone else. To have the audacity to come to me and try to make me convince you that how I live my life is justifiable to you is, frankly, galling.

YET.

It's your right to ask. That's the flip side of this coin. You have the right to ask. you have the right to seek out information if you so choose it. You have the ability, the intelligence, and hopefully the pure curiosity (with no malicious intent, one hopes), to try to sate these questions in your head.

But even with all those rights, one has to understand that just because you have rights does not mean people have to go beyond respecting them. I understand there are racists who deal with me in a civil manner simply because it's the law. I actually thank those people. Going beyond your feelings to uphold the common law is the cornerstone of human civilization. I can't ask them to erase their hate just to make me feel better. It would be selfish to ask beyond that.

Just like it would be selfish to ask me to do anything but respect your questioning of my faith, my belief and opinions just because you feel like we should be able to whatever. You might be at that place. I can get at that place myself. But just because I can and you are... doesn't mean I'm at that place at all. Questioning something someone believes in is only best done with expressed permission. We all have that. If anything, everyone's post here shows they at least have the belief in expression their opinions. And I do believe most would be hardpressed to smile if someone attempts to take that away from them.

 

[EeveeElectro]

I know someone who will get really offended if you even slightly mention a hamster. Because she had a hamster that died once.

Not sure why people say "Stop swearing on Facebook, there are kids on here!!!"
1) Why would I have kids on my Facebook? There's no one on mine under the age of 16.
2) Kids should not be on Facebook. If they are, their parents suck and should get a slap.
3) Whoop-de-fucking doo. What is swearing going to do, really? If you get offended and break down crying at the odd shit and fuck you should probably just lock yourself in your house, put ear muffs on and never come out.

 

[Agayek]

There is something out there that offends people and I just don't understand why that would be so. That something: Everything.

Getting offended by anything anyone says that is not a personal attack against you is patently ludicrous and needs to stop right the fuck now. There is absolutely no reason to ever be offended by what someone says unless it is a direct, false attack against your person, reputation or loyalty.

 

[kortin]

Well, not something that is said, but rather what one does:

Wearing Hats inside. I know why it used to be offensive, but it STILL being offensive is just absolutely stupid.

Actually WHY did it used to be offensive? I know why it used to be offensive NOT to wear a hat at all times (everyone was infested with buggies) but the don't wear a hat inside always struck me as odd.

Waaaay back when everyone was proper and shit, wearing a hat indoors signified that you had no intention to stay long and therefore wearing a hat indoors at a social gathering or something similar was insulting to the host. However, that was long ago and should no longer apply to today's "less proper" society and frankly was stupid in of itself

 

[Ris]

Well given that you stated you've lived in Canada all your life, I'm going to assume that you haven't really experienced British teenage culture and I really can confirm, it is part of the culture. Basically everyone says it so to say that it's part of my "immature gaming communities" is just plain wrong.

Actually, I briefly dated a girl in highschool who went to London on a student exchange program,and my last boyfriend was from London, in the year and a half I dated him, I learned quite a bit about British culture and "The queen's English" Enough to know the homophobic term of choice over there seems to be "poof"

And in all honestly, the only English kids I've seen online that used the word "gay" in this context, we're obviously heavily influence by American culture (Albeit American culture from a few years back)

With respect, I don't think that knowing one Englishman and someone who has been to England makes you an authority. Chiming in to say that the first guy is right, it's a product of the generation. I haven't heard "poof" for a while, actually.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I got called out for saying "Jew" once. If you're Jewish and you practice Judaism, then you are a Jew. Just because you conjugate a word a certain way does not make it offensive, especially if you're using it correctly. Also, what should we say if not "black?"

Jew isn't like black, its like ******. It's all context senstive.

If you follow the Jewish religion or you are born to Jewish parents you aren't a Jew, you are Jewish. (Unless you call your Canadian friends Cans and your American friends Amers)

Historically "Jew" was used only as a racial slur. In fact until recently, if you googled "Jew" you would pretty much only come up with hate sites. It was so bad google had to put a disclaimer up explaining it every time you googled Jew. Since then to combat the problem real Jewish sites have put "Jew" in their search words to get Google to inventory them above the hate sites. (actually I just checked, the disclaimer is still there and you only have to drop to search result 4 to see a hate site).

Now there are times in english where it is EXTREMELY ackward to say Jewish so Jew is the best choice, but it should be used with caution where your intent is not clear, just as you wouldn't call someone a ****** unless you were black or they were a bud who knew how to read it.


Just like ****** it has now also entered more use with Jewish youth and is being somewhat reclaimed.

Also like ******, yes, people can get silly and overreact, but its not without historic cause. I know growing up almost the only time I ever heard "Jews" or "Jewish" it was attached to hate speech.

Well I am a Jew and I think that people need to chill out. I understand if your a elderly person from the holocaust (like my grandparents) but otherwise we Jews need to not be so damn sensitive to topics related to us. I've lost track of how many times I've heard other Jews quickly label something "anti-semitic". [end rant]

 

[zehydra]

"There are certain things that are just flat out rude"

Are you suggesting that something can be objectively rude?

 

[SilentBobsThoughts]

I'll be honest, I don't find it offensive but It hink it's rude when your hanging out with friends ect.. and 2 of them are stood there making out. Making the WHOLE scene just a little bit tense and awkward.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Something I think that shows how it can be overreacted to, when a few years back Cheryl Cole (short lived X factor US judge, and pointless clothes horse) ,while in a nightclub, punched a female bathroom attendant in the face, and called her a black *****.

What got me was that the violent assault was a mere byline, the fact that she called her a BLACK ***** becoming a far more abhorrent crime than punching an innocent woman in the face.

Again, black, not ******, darkie, coon, wog, or anything else, just the usually used description of someone with dark skin. I know using black combined with an insult carries a certain racial weight, but it's still not the same as '******' etc.

How can that be right?

No I don't know any black people, and I'm not gonna pretend 'well, some of my best friends are black', but I'm going to guess most black people would take a single verbal piece of racial abuse over a punch in the face?

 

[Mischa87]

With respect, I don't think that knowing one Englishman and someone who has been to England makes you an authority. Chiming in to say that the first guy is right, it's a product of the generation. I haven't heard "poof" for a while, actually.

Nowhere did I claim to be an authority on it, in all honesty, reading my sister's university-level linguistics book probably did me better than the examples I gave.

But, I've been close friends with far more English people than that (The over five years I've spent as an LGBT support group facilitator, both online and off has given me plenty of examples of people of all sorts of cultures) This was particularly useful in this situation as there were a disproportionately high percentage of transsexuals I've treated from the UK. So I've interacted with more than a few of you from across the pond as it were.

And honestly, I hear "poof" a few times a week, mostly from my ex boyfriend's father calling him one for not liking Call of Duty and the like... And from some TV clips I get sent to me occasionally from him as well. (I love An idiot abroad by the way, even if he does perpetuate almost all the negative English stereotypes)

 

[Ris]

Something I think that shows how it can be overreacted to, when a few years back Cheryl Cole (short lived X factor US judge, and pointless clothes horse) ,while in a nightclub, punched a female bathroom attendant in the face, and called her a black *****.

What got me was that the violent assault was a mere byline, the fact that she called her a BLACK ***** becoming a far more abhorrent crime than punching an innocent woman in the face.

Again, black, not ******, darkie, coon, wog, or anything else, just the usually used description of someone with dark skin. I know using black combined with an insult carries a certain racial weight, but it's still not the same as '******' etc.

How can that be right?

No I don't know any black people, and I'm not gonna pretend 'well, some of my best friends are black', but I'm going to guess most black people would take a single verbal piece of racial abuse over a punch in the face?

Because it's completely unnecessary to point out someone's skin colour before you punch them. By pointing it out it suggested Cheryl felt it was a subject worth mocking. If she had called her a "fat *****" or a "spotty *****" she'd be mocking that woman's weight or complexion. Instead she decided that her skin colour was a suitable insult. Only racists think skin colour is an insult.

I suppose the press made a meal of it because lots of celebrities are violent and like to hit staff and journalists for no reason, that's old news. But Racism too? JACKPOT.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I would however stand up for the offended here, yeah, look at my username and be surprised I'd take that angle.

Now I think it's tiresome that we have to be so careful, in the case of people being offended 'on behalf of' other people.

Yet, surely it's got to be a good thing that some racial, sexual and other discriminatory words and phrases are becoming unacceptable?

As Stewart Lee said in defence of PC, back in the 70s the conservative party's leaflets read 'if you want a ****** for a neighbour, vote liberal or labour', and if anythings moved on, at least they now have to pretend they're not racist.

I grew up seeing NF (National Front, a skinhead racist organisation) graffiti all over town and 'WOGS OUT' sprayed over the shutters of my local store, just because indians were running it.

30 years on and it's just not seen, sure there's a lot of racism around, but in most of society, it's not acceptable to hate on people for colour, race, gender or sexuality.

Everyone has some idea of what's offensive, and to who. All that's needed is for people to consider who is their audience when they speak. I'll say the most reprehensible things when in the company of my best mate, it's almost a game to see who can be the most offensive, but we'd never say such things in polite company, yet 'cor, look at the tits on that 3 year old' is perfectly acceptable between us, as we understand the concept of shock humour.

In short, a stand up doing offensive material to paying customers is fine, a newspaper then reprinting that material to show a large group of people who would never have seen it, just so they can be all offended about how he'd say such things, is the work of a ****. or to be really offensive, a Daily Mail journalist.

In short tho, Wil Hodgson, a gay stand up over here said something smart I thought - "Gay people provide one of the most valuable services in society. They piss off complete dickheads for a living, and for that we have to salute them."