Who is the best fictional swordsman of all time?

[Oroboros]

As for Guts, I have to disagree with a lot of what's being said here. When he was branded, he was given extra strength and endurance (which is why he can even wield the Dragonslayer in the first place). The sword he used before that was quite a bit smaller. (Granted, it's been awhile since I've read the manga, the author takes too many large gaps in publication)

I don't think it's stated anywhere that the brand gives Guts any supernatural ability, apart from being able to slay demons. I always thought it was simply his size, physical conditioning and willpower that allowed him to wield it. Additionally, there's a magnet in his fake hand that snaps the pommel of the sword into position; that kind of pulling technique is a stock standard part of effective two-handed sword use (it allows you to strike with them without pulling the sword back significantly).

The line between 'natural strength' and 'supernatural strength' tend to get get blurred when it comes to animes like Berzerk-lots of people doing feats that would be impossible by any human alive today without magic. But Guts seems to be pretty remarkable even for the setting. Bisecting a horse and plate armored rider in one swing is the sort of thing that's seen as remarkable even in the setting.

Not sure I'd go as far as to call the swordplay of of Berzerk particularly noteworthy though, a lot of 'Guts swings sword, people explode' sort of thing. A fearsome adversary for sure, but I'd say that comes more from his superhuman strength and speed than technique.

As for your words on swordplay, couldn't disagree more on many of your points. While it's true that controlling your opponents weapon is crucial, it by no means is something swords have a monopoly on. Many of the same techniques one can use with swords are perfectly applicable with other weapons like spears, and there are things that other weapons can do quite well that a sword cannot. Also, there's a reason why those old manuals spend time on parries and the follow-up. There is no such thing as the 'perfect attack'that keeps your opponent from responding-you *need* to know how to parry, (and how to follow up from a parry) quite frankly. Controlling your opponent's line of attack is vital, but to do that, you need to know how to neutralize any attacks he might (and will) send your way.

Paul Atreides from Dune seemed like an excellent fighter, on account of being able to see into the future, with every possible feint, parry, counterattack etc that a potential foe could make-and follow whichever chain of events would lead to victory in a duel-he uses this to win in a duel where he is sorely outmatched-since he knows exactly how his opponent will respond to any move he would make.

Rand Al Thor seemed like a pretty competent swordsman in the Wheel of Time Books, having supernatural reflexes and having his fate woven into the fabric of reality to provide an invulnerability of sorts. Being able to conjure up a sword of flame certainly helps. Though considering he's a fellow that can make it rain lightning or retroactively burn his opponents from reality with Balefire, fighting him in a sword duel is probably the safest way to face him.

Boromir killed some 20 Orcs singlehandedly-many of them Sauruman's elite fighting uruk-hai, while getting pincushoned by longbows. Rather impressive feat, IMO.

Drizzt was mentioned earlier...well, according to Ed Greenwood he's not even the best in Forgotten Realms, so there's that...

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

Clearly it is Cidolfus Orlandu, he has All Swordskill after all.

 

[404notfound]

But he's beaten in a straight up duel by Westley, therefore Inigo can't be the best.

Even he could hold no candle to The Dread Pirate Roberts... WHO TAKES NO PRISONERS.

True, but if you want to get technical about things, Westley was primarily a pirate who also so happened to be very good with a sword, whereas Inigo actually was a career swordsman. Ergo, Inigo is the best pure swordsman, even if Westley is better at swordfighting.

Again though, as I said later in my first post, it depends what the OP means when he says "swordsman". If he means someone who devotes their life to mastering the use of a sword and becoming a sword for hire, as it were, then you are right; however, if OP just meant who is the best with a sword in general, then we are right in saying that Inigo is inferior to Westley.

 

[TwiZtah]

Fictional characters are typically poor swordsman, whatever their reputation in-universe. This is particularly true of more recent entertainment media, and especially games. Ever notice how game systems, even real time ones, have a "I go, you go, I go" style of swordplay? Plenty of modern films do it as well, although there are counterpoints in the likes of the original Star Wars films, Robin Hood: Men In Tights, etc.

What makes a sword good isn't its raw killing power, after all. Axes have that covered. Spears reach further. Daggers operate at such close range that defending against them is very difficult. What swords specifically do well is merging offense and defense. I'll explain:

Imagine that you have a sword in hand and are facing off against an opponent. You see yourself from a side view, like a fighting game. If you were to extend your sword so that you're using its maximum length or close to that, your sword arm and sword would make a straight or nearly straight line connecting with your opponent's jaw, neck, shoulder, or upper chest. If you want to strike a target outside of this upper body zone, your range necessarily decreases as your straight line becomes more diagonal. This means that, if you can make an opponent use their maximum range at all times, then their strikes must always pass through a single, predictable point of extension. If you can consistently intercept and control this point, then you're likely to win without harm to yourself.

Knowing this, you can make your sword's recovery posture (the position you're in after a strike) pass through or end connected to this point. This way, your attacks double as defenses, and you never have to do something so crass as commit to a standard parry. Parrying isn't good swordplay -- it's damage control for when you fall behind. All you need to do is attack in a way that defends you until you successfully strike your opponent. Pretty much everything else worth doing is to do with strategic nuances. You might take a defensive guard at the beginning of the engagement, using a reactive strategy, but you'll still be using that central point of extension as your reference point for defense; the only change here is that you're trying to make your opponent commit so you can win by exploiting a clear opening as soon as possible.

Obviously, there's more to swordplay than this one point of extension, but it's very often the piece of knowledge that separates actual swordsmen from people with swords. Just about every strong style of swordplay has at least one guard that directly references this point of extension in its posture, whether that's the Japanese chuudan or the German langenort. Good styles of swordplay teach how to ensure that cuts and thrusts pass through this point to maximise one's capacity to intercept attacks while attacking. This concept, where a swordsman accomplishes multiple things in one unit of time, is a key element of swordplay that is rarely referenced in entertainment media these days.

The Berserk OVAs had really good swordplay, mind. A great compromise between entertainment needs and true techniques. Probably because there wasn't much compromise, and the OVAs often used impact effects and camera angles to frame real techniques in exciting ways (although there are definitely instances of exaggeration or silliness, too).

Historically, swords were used as a last defense rather than main weapon. Spears, Naginatas and other long range weapons were much better. The Katana especially was used sparsely.

 

[Breakdown]

There's a lot of other great mentions here, but I haven't seen anyone bring up Skilgannon, Waylander and probably a few others from David Gemmell's books. Almost all of his heroes are impossibly good with a blade, although I'm not sure how many of them are non-magical pure humans.

Gemmell's works were my first thought too. While I'm sure it's contested, for me Decado (aka The Ice Killer) was always clearly the finest swordsman. He'd be my choice, both for skill and for being a cool/compelling character.

I think it would be a contest between Tenaka Khan and Decado, with Skilgannon out of the running since he uses demonic swords.

Ned Stark. He beat Ser Arthur Dayne. He maybe had some help though.

It's maybe an obscure choice, but Bremer Dan Gorst from Joe Abercrombie's book The Heroes. He's a killing machine powered by his rage over having a ridiculously high pitched voice.

Bremer Dan Gorst is incredible. Although I wonder, would he best the Bloody-Nine? He's got the advantage of his armour, and his brutal style of windmilling through everything with over-heavy steels, but the Bloody-Nine is basically a remorseless killing god. I think that one might come down to equipment.

I think they'd probably end up killing each other in the most bloody way possible.

 

[Trollhoffer]

Historically, swords were used as a last defense rather than main weapon. Spears, Naginatas and other long range weapons were much better. The Katana especially was used sparsely.

This has become the popular and exaggerated counterpoint to a popular exaggeration. While it's true that swords weren't as prominent as depicted in popular media, "last defense" is probably overstating things. I think this is drawn from the emphasis modern people throw on the visceral outcomes of combat -- they see the value of a weapon in terms of its raw capacity to injure rather than the actual overall effectiveness of its application. The versatility of swords has strategic outcomes, though; they can threaten more broadly and nimbly than most other weapons, and therefore manipulate opponents. Remember, killing one's opponent is almost irrelevant, just signaling the end of one particular encounter. The protection a sword provides can allow its user to gain incremental advantage until an opponent has no options left, at which point they sustain an injury.

Additionally, people throw a lot of emphasis on battlefield combat, when open warfare wasn't necessarily the most common kind of encounter. Most generals, from any time period, do their best to avoid pitched battle unless they think they hold a very significant advantage. They'd rather attack opponents' assets through raids and sieges and bleed their army of support. Even that doesn't account for the kinds of encounters outside warfare, which includes street and road defense, judicial duels, a kind of gang warfare between fencing schools, tournaments, and other "unofficial" acts of violence.

On top of that, historical manuals provide detailed instructions for using the sword against armoured opponents -- in fact, more commonly than they show any other weapon. The sword was almost ubiquitous for a long time for good reason. It's rarely the optimal weapon, but it's almost always a good choice. And while it might not have been the first choice on the battlefield, the fact that everyone who could get one did speaks volumes. The sword was definitely used on the battlefield, and definitely to great effect.

 

[Mau95]

This is a pretty tough choice considering some of the feats anime characters can pull, and some of those might not even be possible outside their respective universes.

It's rarely the optimal weapon, but it's almost always a good choice. And while it might not have been the first choice on the battlefield, the fact that everyone who could get one did speaks volumes.

So it's basically the everyman of weapons. The Mario, the Jack of all Trades.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this guy yet...

OP mentions Black Swordsman era Guts.

EDIT: I suppose I should've read the rest of the thread before mentioning that.

 

[DRTJR]

Sir. Lancelot, The BAMF of Arthurian myth

 

[2fish]

Nimco Cosca is fun, but not a big fighter.
Sand dan Glokta was the best before he was crippled.
Collem West is damn good but a lowborn. Who can back a lowborn?
I back Shivers in this fight.

Wait no! I just remember Friendly. I want him at my back. Well as long as the numbers are in my favor.

I mean I could name more but Friendly is my vote. Also a knife is just a short sword so he counts!

 

[Fox12]

As for Guts, I have to disagree with a lot of what's being said here. When he was branded, he was given extra strength and endurance (which is why he can even wield the Dragonslayer in the first place). The sword he used before that was quite a bit smaller. (Granted, it's been awhile since I've read the manga, the author takes too many large gaps in publication)

I don't think it's stated anywhere that the brand gives Guts any supernatural ability, apart from being able to slay demons. I always thought it was simply his size, physical conditioning and willpower that allowed him to wield it. Additionally, there's a magnet in his fake hand that snaps the pommel of the sword into position; that kind of pulling technique is a stock standard part of effective two-handed sword use (it allows you to strike with them without pulling the sword back significantly).

The line between 'natural strength' and 'supernatural strength' tend to get get blurred when it comes to animes like Berzerk-lots of people doing feats that would be impossible by any human alive today without magic. But Guts seems to be pretty remarkable even for the setting. Bisecting a horse and plate armored rider in one swing is the sort of thing that's seen as remarkable even in the setting.

I thought about that, since he's basically superhuman by the time he gets the berserk armor. However, since he was nearly defeated by serpico, a normal swordsman who was able to use the terrain to his advantage, I didn't think it was too outlandish to place him against enemies like Aragon or Link, so long as he couldn't rely on his additional weaponry. A blunt attack probably wouldn't work, but I think a clever person could beat him.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

There's a lot of other great mentions here, but I haven't seen anyone bring up Skilgannon, Waylander and probably a few others from David Gemmell's books. Almost all of his heroes are impossibly good with a blade, although I'm not sure how many of them are non-magical pure humans.

Skilgannon was going to be my pick, actually (Druss would probably be my 'best fictional warrior of all time evah' pick, though that's with Snaga, not a sword). Not read everything he's written (most, though), but I can't think of any magically inclined warriors in his main series', so the vast majority could be up for this particular accolade.

In film: Mifune's Sanjuro, from Yojimbo and Sanjuro. Swordsmen/warriors who never want to draw steel are always the most interesting.

 

[trollnystan]

I second this oro

I mean seriously in his prime the guy could cut bullets, move faster then the eye can see, and could hit with such precision that he doesn't kill people unless he wants to.

Fistbump!

The only problem is that not only is there a better swordsman than Kenshin out there, but said swordsman comes from Kenshin's own universe!

*points to his previous post a couple posts above this one*

Kenshin's master. :3

Meh, I never liked him much so Kenshin wins in my book! =P

 

[RJ 17]

I second this oro

I mean seriously in his prime the guy could cut bullets, move faster then the eye can see, and could hit with such precision that he doesn't kill people unless he wants to.

Fistbump!

The only problem is that not only is there a better swordsman than Kenshin out there, but said swordsman comes from Kenshin's own universe!

*points to his previous post a couple posts above this one*

Kenshin's master. :3

Meh, I never liked him much so Kenshin wins in my book! =P

Well he certainly is a narcissistic prick and I love the way Kenshin describes him: "Hiko Seijuro the 13th. His skill is without a doubt the best. But his personality is twisted, brusque, misanthropic...so bad mannered that he brings up embarrassing things about people that even the person concerned has forgotten about them..." So yeah, he's a right-proper jackass. However it is a fact that his physique makes him much more capable at utilizing the Hiten Mitsurugi style than Kenshin (Kenshin lacks the weight and upper body strength necessary to fully utilize the charging techniques of the Hiten Mitsurugi style). Don't get me wrong, Kenshin is my favorite anime protagonist of all time. Hiko, however, is still far better with the sword than he is.

To put it in Yahiko's words: "He's a little irritating, but when he acts that bad-ass...I have no choice but to think he's really cool."

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

It has to be Highlander.. because there can be only ONE! XD

 

[ecoho]

I second this oro

I mean seriously in his prime the guy could cut bullets, move faster then the eye can see, and could hit with such precision that he doesn't kill people unless he wants to.

Fistbump!

The only problem is that not only is there a better swordsman than Kenshin out there, but said swordsman comes from Kenshin's own universe!

*points to his previous post a couple posts above this one*

Kenshin's master. :3

Meh, I never liked him much so Kenshin wins in my book! =P

Well he certainly is a narcissistic prick and I love the way Kenshin describes him: "Hiko Seijuro the 13th. His skill is without a doubt the best. But his personality is twisted, brusque, misanthropic...so bad mannered that he brings up embarrassing things about people that even the person concerned has forgotten about them..." So yeah, he's a right-proper jackass. However it is a fact that his physique makes him much more capable at utilizing the Hiten Mitsurugi style than Kenshin (Kenshin lacks the weight and upper body strength necessary to fully utilize the charging techniques of the Hiten Mitsurugi style). Don't get me wrong, Kenshin is my favorite anime protagonist of all time. Hiko, however, is still far better with the sword than he is.

To put it in Yahiko's words: "He's a little irritating, but when he acts that bad-ass...I have no choice but to think he's really cool."

well kenshin did beat him so........yeah hes a great swordsman but not as good.

 

[spartan231490]

Tough call. Kirito is pretty impressive, cutting bullets and magic spells clean out of the air. He might not count, though, as he's technically not a human. Al Lan Mandragoran is also in contention. Years of skill, practice, and experience combined to make one hell of a dangerous swordsman. Can't have magic . . . I think it's between those two, at least amongst swordsman I'm familiar with.

Actually, as good as they both are, any of the masters of Nami's weapon division would be better. The masters in that Manga were supposedly human, but the least of them had abilities far beyond what any human is capable of.

 

[RJ 17]

well kenshin did beat him so........yeah hes a great swordsman but not as good.

Yeah...because he was using the ultimate technique while Hiko wasn't, and that was the point. If Hiko really wanted to kill Kenshin, he would have used the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki. The difference between them is illustrated when Hiko teaches Kenshin the Kuzu Ryu Sen.

 

[Mr Companion]

Jetstream Sam uses barely any augmentations in a world of superpowered cyborgs and he is still one of the most deadly dudes around.

Of course eventually Raiden beats him but Raiden is full of cyborg s**t and not really a "swordsman" as far as I am concerned. More of a... ninja... warrior man thing? I dunno.

 

[conmag9]

My vote would lie with the anyone in the Elder Scrolls series capable of executing the Pankrato Sword technique. Power and precision sufficient to slice atoms apart and release the energy contained within. A single swing, atomic death. Which, yes, isn't even remotely how fission actually works, but it's fantasy.

Even if you don't mean "most destructive", they can hold back enough enough to not obliterate everything. The technique is all about epic amounts of technical control, so...yeah, they'd be pretty darn awesome.

Oh, and to anyone who wonders how they would survive an atomic blast at ground zero? They don't. It's a suicide attack.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

Guts from Berserk is the best swordsman ever in my opinion..don't believe me? Read the manga to see for yourself (it's the best manga I have ever read).