Why is it always subs over dubs?

Thaius

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Well it's two things, mainly.

For one, most dubs still suck. I know Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Fooly Cooly, and a few others have good voice acting, but the absolute majority of dubs are still horribly acted. Naruto's dub makes me want to cut my ears off. Anime like Outlaw Star screw up by trying to make some of the voices (namely Melfina) try too hard to sound like the Japanese voices: the fact is, the inflection and tone of Japanese speech and characters almost always sounds like crap when inserted in English dialogue. There are many common mistakes (and just bad voice actors) that contribute to this, and the fact remains that the vast majority of dubs absolutely suck.

The second most common issue is translation and pronunciation. In many cases, the translation of the dubs fails miserably where the subs succeed. Take Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children for example. Cloud spends the movie, and the two years preceding it, unable to forgive himself for Aerith's death. He's dragging the emotional burden of his guilt the entire time. In a pivotal scene, Tifa accuses him of this simply by saying twice a Japanese word that, in the culture, means that one is dragging something. But rather than communicating that, the translators for the dub had her say, "Dilly-dally-shilly-shally." Um... what? Unless you're watching Advent Children Complete, which released years after the original, there is no real explanation in the movie for exactly why Cloud is having such problems, and this pivotal scene where Cloud understands that he is dragging an emotional burden replaces the most important word of the entire movie to "DIlly-dally-shilly-shally?" Dilly-dallying doesn't even mean anything close to "dragging" in the first place! I missed the entire point of that film until I saw Advent Children Complete with subtitles, all because the translators failed immensely. To use another example, Orphen (an anime that actually has pretty good English voice acting) had a much more complex story that was dumbed down in the English version by nothing more than a bad translation. The villain had layers of character development completely stripped away, resulting in a more simple story than was originally intended. Even the classics of your childhood: remember the first Pokemon film? The one about Mewtwo? Originally, Mewtwo was confused, and his motivations were rather complex in their lack of understanding, and this was communicated throughout the film. In the English dub, he is pretty much just a purely evil guy who wants nothing more than revenge, and any complexity of thought or confusion on his part comes out only in the end, during the monologue about peace and love (which, by the way, was much more pronounced and melodramatic than the original; and when we take something Japanese and make it more melodramatic, you know something is very, very wrong).

Beyond that, too many dubs change some of the terms and such that really should be the same. To use Naruto as another example (dang, was that show badly dubbed), they translated many things that should have stayed the same. For instance, the name of the village, Konoha. It means "leaf," and was translated as such. However, most subs still leave it as "Konoha." Why? Because names like that are much more mysterious and fitting to a fictional fantasy world than "Leaf Village." Translating it exactly in that case just sounds stupid: it's true that most of the ninja villages in that manga/anime are named after elemental entities, but that is caught on through the rest of it. Same with Naruto's techniques. Kage Bunshin no Jutsu makes for a much more mysterious, magical feel than the Shadow Clone Technique. The translators went too far.

As for pronunciation, this is just horrifying. Japanese has different translation patterns than English; different syllables will be stressed, vowels will often be pronounced differently... as a result, names often have a different sound. But many dubs completely disregard this, either changing the names to sound more American or simply pronouncing them in ways that simply sound stupid. A recent example would be the dubbing of Clannad (a brilliant show that I guarantee will make you cry, no matter who you are). It was a mostly decent dub, but the names sounded terrible. One character is named Nagisa, which, in Japanese, is pronounced NA-gi-sa. In the English dub, everyone said Na GEE-sa. Another character, Okazaki, should be pronounced O-KA-za-ki. Everyone in the dub calls him "O-ka-ZA-ki." Try saying these out loud: they sound absolutely ridiculous. Similar travesties happened in Digimon Tamers: for example, the main character, Takato, rather than being said TA-ka-to, is referred to as Ta-KA-to. Shikamaru, from Naruto, rather than being called Shi-KA-ma-ru, is pronounced Shi-ka-MA-ru. Rather than having names that, while definitely not American, at least sound foreign, we have crap that just sounds stupid.

I would also like to point out a much more rare, but still infuriating practice: soundtrack changes. My personal favorite example is Digimon Tamers, which actually had a great soundtrack and some really awesome J-rock and J-pop. The dub changed that. They did not use a single track from the original music, and instead had a musical score that may as well have been taken directly from a random royalty-free music website. Even the opening and closing themes changed...



When I saw the English dub after loving the subbed version of Tamers, I was horrified.

The fact is, most anime dubs are terrible, because the voice actors suck, the translation screws with the story, and/or the pronunciations just sound terrible. There are exceptions, and I will not judge someone simply because they watch dubbed anime. But I prefer subs in almost every situation, simply because I have very rarely seen a good dub.
 

Lamppenkeyboard

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If it is dubbed good then I watch it dubbed. If the the dub came out like crap, then I will try to track down the subbed version.

Dubs have been going either way for years now. I am watching the Last Exile series, and I am perfectly happy with the dub quality.
 

Kagim

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Thaius said:
"Dilly-dally-shilly-shally." Um... what? Unless you're watching Advent Children Complete, which released years after the original, there is no real explanation in the movie for exactly why Cloud is having such problems, and this pivotal scene where Cloud understands that he is dragging an emotional burden replaces the most important word of the entire movie to "DIlly-dally-shilly-shally?" Dilly-dallying doesn't even mean anything close to "dragging" in the first place
Dilly-Dally-Shilly-Shally means your dragging your ass and your behind everyone else because your to distracted by something else, usually daydreaming. In other words Cloud is living in the past because he can't stop thinking about Aerith's death.

It's an artistic translation rather then a literal one.

...It made sense to me? It replaces Tifa saying Zurro Zurro, which is a Japanese phrase meaning the same thing just about.
 

Sark

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Marik2 said:
Aura Guardian said:
Oh no. I tried. I really did. I couldn't bare it.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Then you need to try....

[HEADING=1] HARDER!!! [/HEADING]

But as I said before some anime isn't meant to be dubbed, ugh -_-

Your really missing out on some good anime if your stubborn to read. (not sure about clannad I'm using the dub as an example)

I am usually a fan of dubs but that was just terrible. Sonohara sounds like a 10 year old.

Good dubs are found in lots of places. I will make a list of the good dubbed anime I know:
Cowboy Bebop Wolf's Rain
Samurai Champloo FMA Brotherhood
Scrapped Princess Full Metal Panic
Darker than Black Bleach
BECK Mongolian Chop Squad Fate/Stay Night
Ghost in the Shell Trigun
FLCL Soul Eater
Baccano! Code Geass

That is all I can think of for now.
 

Hessmn212

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I prefer dubs over subs, because subs and foreign movies is that I fell that I miss all the action that's going on, while I'm watching.
 

coldshadow

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SnootyEnglishman said:
Because the dubs are usually horrible and/or censored heavily (see 4kids and FUNimation).

so far I have found the Funimation dubs to be pretty good with no censorship in sight. of coarse I havent seen alot but what I have seen seems up to par.

as for 4kids....I have nightmares of the things they do...
 

OmegaXzors

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I prefer subbed because they tend to say a bit more. For example, if you listen to Resident Evil 5's dialog during the game, it's pretty shitty.

Almost everything they say hardly makes any sense because they're trying to match a tiny sentence with the moments of the mouthes. [Super] Street Fighter IV has really bad English dub. Just watch that mouth move out of sync.

That's why. I prefer to have two seconds of dialog say:

Japanese sub: "I'm sorry, but your sister has met an unfortunate accident..."

versus

English dub: "I killed your...sister."

You get more out of the story.
 

himemiya1650

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A lot of concepts and idea don't translate well into English. Also I don't like english voice actors as much, especially Richard Cox cause everything he does sounds like InuYasha
 

Not-here-anymore

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I can't stand watching shows where the voice is out of time with the mouth movements. It's just something that really annoys me. Subs don't have that problem!
 

Marik2

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Sark said:
I am usually a fan of dubs but that was just terrible. Sonohara sounds like a 10 year old.

Good dubs are found in lots of places. I will make a list of the good dubbed anime I know:
Cowboy Bebop Wolf's Rain
Samurai Champloo FMA Brotherhood
Scrapped Princess Full Metal Panic
Darker than Black Bleach
BECK Mongolian Chop Squad Fate/Stay Night
Ghost in the Shell Trigun
FLCL Soul Eater
Baccano! Code Geass

That is all I can think of for now.
There's also

Grenadier
Please Teacher
Please Twins
GetBackers
Haruhi Suzumiya
Blood +
IGPX
Evangelion
Ouran Host Club
Hellsing
Deathnote

And thats all I can think of now.
 

UberNoodle

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Durxom said:
Now I know I'm in the minority here, but I prefer my anime dubbed over being subtitled. And no, it's not because I'm too lazy to read the subtitles along with the shows, I have watching plenty of subbed anime in my time.

What I don't understand is the huge push to watching anime subtitled than in English. I could understand back when anime was first appearing over here in the West, we had some pretty bad VOs back then, but now, there is really no excuse for it. We have a few Western Anime companies going, who for the most part, are releasing and dubbing over a lot of the material that is coming out of Japan, most of it being high quality stuff.

It just kind of irks me when seeing bits of my favorite shows on youtube or other video sites, and the common concensus is "Hey, you REALLY need to check out the sub of this show. Dubs? what kind of a tard watches those?".....especially when most of stories or settings make more sense when dubbed over. (I don't care what anyone says, the accents may not be incredible, but Hellsing makes a lot more sense and is more immersive in English than in Japanese)

So...now that my little rant is over, why do you fellow Escapists prefer subs over dubs? and what made you switch over? (from dubs to subs, or from subs to dubs)
With films and anime, I want to experience it in the langauge for it which it was originially envisioned. There's nothing wrong with that, as far I can see. It isn't pretentious and it isn't an 'insult' to people who prefer dubs, which is the way many people act.

I don't really understand why this topic is constantly being re-run, though. This is how I look at it:

The creative team for an anime spend a lot of time, energy and consideration choosing their actors for each character. After chooding them, changes are usually made to reference those actors, or suit those actors. For me, that is very important to experience.

I don't find reading subs any less 'immersive' than not. In fact, there are many times when English dubs clash with the setting and are detrimental to immersion. I also hate the whole 'but you can'T understand the voices so you don't know the feeling' argument that is common. I am not sure how much empathy those people lack, but I have no problem detecting the emotional range of what I hear.

I am sure that there are some amazing dubs out there, I just don't want to listen to them, and I shouldn't have to. Dubs are usually made by 3rd parties, detached from the true creative processes of the film, and I want to see the thing as close to how it was envisioned as possible.
 

lucky_sharm

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Adzma said:
No, I have a high standard of what some of us call quality.
That sounds pretty narrow-minded and elitist more than anything, but that's just me.

On-topic: I prefer to listen to both versions anime. Whether it's subbed or dubbed, whatever.

I don't get why people have to argue and fight over whether or not the dubbed or subbed version is better. Or why people tell other people how a certain anime "should" be heard. That's just plain judgemental. Besides, arguing over subbed and dubbed animes isn't that important of a topic to fight over unless your lives are really, really that shallow.
 

Thaius

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Kagim said:
Thaius said:
"Dilly-dally-shilly-shally." Um... what? Unless you're watching Advent Children Complete, which released years after the original, there is no real explanation in the movie for exactly why Cloud is having such problems, and this pivotal scene where Cloud understands that he is dragging an emotional burden replaces the most important word of the entire movie to "DIlly-dally-shilly-shally?" Dilly-dallying doesn't even mean anything close to "dragging" in the first place
Dilly-Dally-Shilly-Shally means your dragging your ass and your behind everyone else because your to distracted by something else, usually daydreaming. In other words Cloud is living in the past because he can't stop thinking about Aerith's death.

It's an artistic translation rather then a literal one.

...It made sense to me? It replaces Tifa saying Zurro Zurro, which is a Japanese phrase meaning the same thing just about.
See, I've never heard "Dilly-dally-shilly-shally." Ever. In my life. And a search online yielded no examples or meanings beyond those that are defined by the context of Advent Children. Seriously, every single place I looked at held either guesses as to what it meant or people figuring out based on the etymology of the original Japanese translation. I suppose you may be able to figure it out in context, but there's a difference between writing nuanced dialogue and writing nonsensical dialogue.

The subtitles simply translate it as "drag." Which makes a heck of a lot more sense, and is an actual word on top of that.
 

chaos order

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Aenir said:
Dubs are usually atrocious, and I want it in its original form.

Jiraiya72 said:
Full Metal Alchemist is only good in dubs.
I strongly disagree. Just saying.
and i disagree with you

i found elrics voice in japanese SUPER annoying. his dubbed voice was 100X better in my head
 

Lancer723

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Aenir said:
Dubs are usually atrocious, and I want it in its original form.

Jiraiya72 said:
Full Metal Alchemist is only good in dubs.
I strongly disagree. Just saying.
I've only watched the Dubs of the original FMA, but I'm watching the subs of FMA: Brotherhood and I have to say I'm much preferring the subs. Granted this may only be because Brotherhood is sooooo much better than the first series.

Anyway it really depends on the Dub. There are some horribly atrocious dubs and there are some series where the Dub will actually be more watchable than the Sub of the same series. It's really personal opinion, there's something to be said for watching it your own language as well as some of the things that can be lost in translation from the original script to the english acting.
 

SirDerick

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It depends really, most dubs I hear are god awful.

Also, when there's annoying character that constantly says stupid shit, he's much easier to ignore when he has subtitles.
 

UberNoodle

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Souplex said:
It's because the average Japanime fan feels something will be lost if they listen to it in a language they understand. They feel like if any whiteys touched it, it will be impure.
I don't get that whole "Voice acting quality" complaint, because Japanese voice acting has never been particularly good.
How condescending. Don't make too much of an effort to understand your fellow human!

The 'average anime fan' rightly worries about what will be lost in translation. It is usual practice to localise a script for a dub. Cultural references are very often reduced or even removed, and of course, dialoge is changed to suit the mouth movements of the image. This often requires a loss of information or added information.

Sub scripts are often 'literal' unless they are cheap 'dubscripts', in which case they are worthless. I have seen countless foreign films and anime which have been mutilated by poor translation, inserted Americanism, and tonal changes that affect the characterisation and even the outcome of events in the film.

As for 'quality', Japanese voice actors ARE, in my mind, of a standard higher than English ones, on average. There are some very good actors out there in English but, they are so often disappointing to me. They can come off as deadpan or unreasonably hammy. They can often be very miscast and quite different to the original character.

REgardless, quality is not the reason I choose subs. Read my explanation above.

Is it somehow stupid of my to seek to avoid such problems? It is just my irrational fear of 'impurity' due to 'whitey'? You have no idea what you are talking about. That is the only explanation for your attitude. I don't insult anybody for selecting dubs. If that's what they are most comfortable with, then they are free to choose it. I don't think they are stupid or illiterate. I personally wouldn't bother with a dub though.