Fallout 4 Eliminates Skills From Character System
- Thread starter Conrad Zimmerman
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Well, you know what? GOOD.
By max level my characters were almost always masters of nearly everything anyway (which is why my latest characters have always had low intellect). The only definition they was had was through their S.P.E.C.I.A.L. (if I hadn't gotten almost perfect/no weakness) and perks.
So yes, make everything about perks and special. And limit my choices to a reasonable extent.
By max level my characters were almost always masters of nearly everything anyway (which is why my latest characters have always had low intellect). The only definition they was had was through their S.P.E.C.I.A.L. (if I hadn't gotten almost perfect/no weakness) and perks.
So yes, make everything about perks and special. And limit my choices to a reasonable extent.
New Vegas had 87 perks not including follower perks,challenge perks, or dlc perks and they all had an additional effect. Without skills, most of these 70 are probably variations of more damage. I would also like to point out to everyone while it was possible to min max in previous games, its actually easier here since leveling is infinite and its all perk/special based nowotakon17 said:
Some guns are very heavy. A shotgun requires a certain degree of strength or you'll break your shoulder.RatGouf said:
OT: Well I don't actually mind this. A good few of them didn't translate very well to FPS style gameplay at ALL, especially guns. If I aim at something and shoot it dead on with a shot I know should hit, I don't want to see my bullet veer off because I failed my shoot roll, nor do I want to see homing bullets when I missed. It's great and fine in FO1 and 2, because they're based on board game rules and you're not actually shooting.
I know right? I don't know about anyone else, but I barely paid any attention to my perks in FO3 or NV. They were seriously an afterthought, and I would usually pick the one that seemed the least useless of the available ones. Skills were what it was all about, get that skill to 100 and everything else is cake. With a perk system, you actually will have some variety to your build, that will require you to actually play the game in the playstyle you chose. I'm looking forward to it a lot, I like this change immensely.Something Amyss said:
No I'm with you on that one, that was a dumb decision that made no sense in-universe or out. Allegedly during initial play/beta testing they were running a hybrid system where in smaller skirmishes you could let the weapon cool as normal in ME1 but if shit was getting hairy, you could pop the heatsink for an immediate cool down. In fact I think there are mods for the PC versions of ME2 & ME3 that implement that.Quellist said:
RPGs are officially dead. Holy hell! I was already mashing my face against the wall at the complete stupidity of Dragon Age: Inquisition?s stupid choice of removing skill points. Now Bethesda is doing the same? Video gamers no longer need brains to play video games, I see. Absolutely unbelievable. RPGs are officially being downgraded for the sake of simpletons. Developers, apparently, are trying to ?appeal to a wider audience? by dumbing down their games, and it looks like gamers ENJOY this change! Jesus Christ.
I?m glad I didn?t pre-order, because it looks like--after waiting YEARS--I?m going to wait another before I buy it. It?s not a deal breaker, but I?m certainly not interested in paying $60 for it anymore. I?ll probably buy it used next year.
I?m glad I didn?t pre-order, because it looks like--after waiting YEARS--I?m going to wait another before I buy it. It?s not a deal breaker, but I?m certainly not interested in paying $60 for it anymore. I?ll probably buy it used next year.
Wait ... so let me get it straight: Bethesda does a rather poor job with it's skills/perks/special combo in the last 2 games, so the entire comunity goes "just remove everything! don;t bother improving, we don't care, cut away and give us less". Huh ... lovely lovely what the hype train can do.
Also: fuck off bethesda. SKyrim was a piece of shit generic fantasy action game where none of the "perks" mattered at all and you could basically, rather easily I might add, grind out a character to maximum perfect everything unlocked you are now perfect and nothing can touch you status. There was precisely 0 diversity in character builds, everyone was fucking the same character, race and background didn't mean jack shit, in other words: IT WAS NOT AN RPG. And now you go and put that same shit system in Fallout? Way to shoot yourselves in the foot. But hey, I guess the dum-dums like it. Judging by all the people still calling skyrim an rpg and saying the level-up system in that was good (so good it insipired tons of mods ment to actually frigging fix it and make the game into an actual rpg where level-up choices mattered).
Welcome to the new ge of fallout people. Where there are no skills meaning you can do anything you want without any negatives and what once was a perk tree that had at least one unique thing each time you had to make a choice is now a generic list of "+x% to doing a", "-y% chance to fail b". Yeah, it's going to be great. Truly a great new system, and evolution of the concept of RPGs, truly we will see such diverse characters, like in skyrim, where as we all know every race is a sneaky mage archer that is good at everything. FML, the hype train for this is sad as fuck ... people need to be reminded what the definition of an RPG is it seems. Goes something like this btw: for a game to be an RPG you need to be able to arrive at the end game with 2 radically different characters and still win with both. In that regard even friggin deus ex HR qualifies (killy jensen or hippie jensen). Skyrim's "you are now the chosen god of creation, master of everything from magic to assasinations to hitting things with stick" aproach does not. And now we get that exact same dumb down for the mountain dew crowd who can't be bothered with complex systems set-up for fallout. So yeah, it's no longer an rpg.
Also: fuck off bethesda. SKyrim was a piece of shit generic fantasy action game where none of the "perks" mattered at all and you could basically, rather easily I might add, grind out a character to maximum perfect everything unlocked you are now perfect and nothing can touch you status. There was precisely 0 diversity in character builds, everyone was fucking the same character, race and background didn't mean jack shit, in other words: IT WAS NOT AN RPG. And now you go and put that same shit system in Fallout? Way to shoot yourselves in the foot. But hey, I guess the dum-dums like it. Judging by all the people still calling skyrim an rpg and saying the level-up system in that was good (so good it insipired tons of mods ment to actually frigging fix it and make the game into an actual rpg where level-up choices mattered).
Welcome to the new ge of fallout people. Where there are no skills meaning you can do anything you want without any negatives and what once was a perk tree that had at least one unique thing each time you had to make a choice is now a generic list of "+x% to doing a", "-y% chance to fail b". Yeah, it's going to be great. Truly a great new system, and evolution of the concept of RPGs, truly we will see such diverse characters, like in skyrim, where as we all know every race is a sneaky mage archer that is good at everything. FML, the hype train for this is sad as fuck ... people need to be reminded what the definition of an RPG is it seems. Goes something like this btw: for a game to be an RPG you need to be able to arrive at the end game with 2 radically different characters and still win with both. In that regard even friggin deus ex HR qualifies (killy jensen or hippie jensen). Skyrim's "you are now the chosen god of creation, master of everything from magic to assasinations to hitting things with stick" aproach does not. And now we get that exact same dumb down for the mountain dew crowd who can't be bothered with complex systems set-up for fallout. So yeah, it's no longer an rpg.
Actually what the article here didn't mention but the announcement actually did, there aren't 70 perks but rather 270. They now have ranks and can be levelled up, requiring a certain level requirement.kenu12345 said:
And from what we have seen the actual perks were also rather unique, even the ones that get levelled up.
The last charm perk for example is Intimidation, which allows you pacify a human enemy by pointing your gun at him threatingly. The first level just makes him just not hostile, the second level makes him turn against his allies to help you and the last level allows you to give him "specific commands" whatever that entails.
Then there's the usual unique stuff like grim reapers sprint in there. They mentioned that additional levels of "Strong Back", the one that lets you carry more stuff, will allow you to fast-travel when encumbered or run when encumbered, at the cost of action points.
One more rather interesting one they mentioned was the last agility-perk. The first level would give you 20% extra damage on the second target you shoot at in VATS. The further level would increase that bonus for further targets. So you would still only get 20% extra on the second target, but might get 30% on the third and/or 40% on the fourth. Sounds like a pretty interesting perk to me since it promotes a very different playstyle. Instead of taking out individual enemies as fast as possible, this would encourage you to hit as many different enemies as possible.
You say that like it's not true. They already ship millions of units, how far can you dilute something before it ceases to have any of the original substance's properties? They already ruined Elder Scrolls with this shit, and that was fine, because I still had Fallout. But now I'm pissed.Wuvlycuddles said:
Also, any implication that Skyrim's perk system was superior to Fallout's (I'm getting a lot of that from this thread) is insane. How exciting is 5 ranks of +Flat Damage? In Fallout, I at least feel like I have to make a choice between two perks sometimes. Skyrim's perk 'trees' are practically straight lines.
This is all just doomsaying, of course, but I can't give Bethesda the benefit of the doubt.
No but I ended up dumping skill points into stuff I never planned on using because I had to spend them.kenu12345 said:
Yeaah....I think you are letting your toxicity overload your brain there. I don't see how you can say that a system that is perk only is "without any negatives". Also, no, not everyone made a warrior/mage/thief god in Skyrim, some of us actually stayed with the skills we were using and nothing else. It's called roleplaying. You know, the REAL definition of RPG? And this FO4 system will do what you seem to think is the only definition of an RPG, "allow you to make 2 distinct builds, and be able to win the game". In fact, this system will be more in line with that than the previous ones. Because you won't be able to offset a lack of perks in a particular field with having tons of skill points. If you only buy the perks that make you good at combat, well guess how you will have to deal with your problems? Combat. You won't be able to be sneaky and avoid the threats with lockpick/sneak/computers, because you didn't build your guy to be good at that. That sounds like way more potential for diversity than "here's enough skill points to max out every damn skill whether you use it or not" does.XDSkyFreak said:
And I love your arrogant opinion that anyone who doesn't share your opinion on the way a game should be designed is apparently a mountain dew swilling idiot. Very classy.
Ah, not knowing how to set it up and such? I see that sort of problem occasionally. Its tricky when you start a new build but when you see the potential. On my bb gun run and my drug addict, I don't think that I had a single wasted perkHappyninja42 said:
Im with Chozo Hybrid. I don't think there's enough info to really know if this is going to be good or not. It really does depend on how it plays out in the game. Are the builds really going to be unique? Maybe. Is it good? Maybe. We'll see.Happyninja42 said:
I'm just amazed at the "not an RPG" crowd.
It seems more like a sandbox game now, rather than an RPG. They made SPECIAL insignificant in FO3 and now, with the skills removed, there seem to be very little RPG elements.
Now I know for certain that I won't pre-order it. It will probably be a good game, but not what I was looking forward to.
Now I know for certain that I won't pre-order it. It will probably be a good game, but not what I was looking forward to.
In Fallout all you knew about a character was they came from a Vault and they had to get a waterchip. In Fallout 2 all you knew was that you were descendant of Fallout 1's character and you had to get the G.E.C.K. In New Vegas all you knew was that you were a mailmain who wanted revenge, with one of the DLC's revealing that one of the packages you delivered in the past destroyed a community. That's it.Kahani said:
Fallout 3 on the other hand, gave your character a father and a childhood, setting their backstory in stone. Every Fallout 3 character has to have a crappy birthday, learn to shoot roaches in their childhood and get bullied by a gang of greasers in their teens. Every Fallout 3 character has to care about their father. You can play through Fallout 3 as a child enslaving, town nuking psycopath, but you still have to love your father.
And now Fallout 4. You're forced to have a spouse and a child, which says a lot about 'your' character: Your character is the kind of person who settles down and has a family. Your character is the kind of person who cares for children. Your character is straight. I mean in the original Fallout you're never given any of your backstory. You could be the Vault's psychopath sent out because they think no one else will survive. You could be the Vault's techie sent out because you would know the best about waterchips. It's all blank.
And as for the classics like Baldur's gate, they at least made up for it with expanded dialogue. In Baldur's Gate you were always Gorion's ward, but your character could have different views on that. Your character could love Gorion like a father, they could just be thankful for him taking them in, or they could think he was a weak old fool. Now that it's all voice acted you can't get that much depth in the conversation system.
I hope this system works, but it sounds like it'll actually be taking away our ability to fine tune our characters. 
I really liked that I had to spend time deliberating about what skills to upgrade; it also made the perks seem way more special. It made the leveling system way more involved and gave me something to work specifically towards in regards to skills and the way I play. I usually liked high interlligence characters with a lot of skill points in science, medicine, and speech; it usually got balanced by my abysmally bad barter and various gun skills.
Still, it'll probably beat spending hours at the forge and grind wheel. Also, I wonder what the game breaking skill will be that pops out of this new setup.
I really liked that I had to spend time deliberating about what skills to upgrade; it also made the perks seem way more special. It made the leveling system way more involved and gave me something to work specifically towards in regards to skills and the way I play. I usually liked high interlligence characters with a lot of skill points in science, medicine, and speech; it usually got balanced by my abysmally bad barter and various gun skills.
Still, it'll probably beat spending hours at the forge and grind wheel. Also, I wonder what the game breaking skill will be that pops out of this new setup.
So this sounds kinda similar to Skyrim's system, just replacing skills with S.P.E.C.I.A.L. I'm not really opposed to that, as I enjoyed the hell out of Skyrim as I could make my character a living god. Hopefully I can do the same this time.